| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread 20:33 - Apr 7 with 84606 views | exiledclaseboy |
About time we had one and it's got the word "official" in the title so that makes all the difference. If a mod wants to sticky it, feel free.
I seem to remember that five years ago (on the old, better Planet Swans) we got to nearly 100 pages and then another 60odd with the "aftermath" thread. They were good fun but there were more posters then and we were all a bit more tolerant of others' views. Let's try to be nice to each other, eh.
Anyway, best site for opinion polls is this one in my experience:
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/
Polls are so tight the only conclusion is that the Tories and Labour are head to head nationwide. Can't put a whisker between them.
Tories need about 39-40% for an overall majority. Labour will probably get one on 36-37%. God bless our ridiculous voting system.
So, enjoy yourselves. I'll start with a prediction. Labour to win most seats but slightly fewer votes than the Tories and end up forming some kind of minority government with support from various parliamentary lefties on a vote by vote basis. And then all of a sudden many Tory supporters will discover that they've always hated first past the post and can't understand why we perpetuate a system under which the party which more people voted for than any other can lose the election. It'll be quite funny and lead to calls for a proper voting system. Which everyone will forget about in six months when all the fuss has died down.
What say you? |  |
| |  |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 16:36 - Apr 12 with 1655 views | trampie |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 14:27 - Apr 12 by perchrockjack |
Thanks Clasie.
I didnt suggest you personally had called Cam evil.
It is my belief and fear LABOUR will go back to do what they always used to do and whack up taxes, like fuel duty. Hope Im wrong..
I believe the world at large wont fancy Millband, God know CAM is a faceless cretin but Milliban is ,well as a faceless cretin, but a more disingenuous man Id suggest you d find hard to find, apart from Ed Balls, who God help me , could be the next Chancellor.
We ve been thinking ,me and wifey , about feckn off to live but shied away from it, but I feel this really could be it .
Im fearful, butthat's just me and looking at some of the leftie vitriol on here, its NOT HARD |
You are living in the past, Labour haven't been a high tax, high spend party for 30 odd years, Labour is a Tory party, a low tax, low spend party.
Labour and the Conservatives are on the same side of the same coin these days, Labour might tax and spend slightly more than the Conservatives but its marginal as they would be more or less on the same part of a political graph, unlike Plaid Cymru that would emulate the most successful nations in the World, a Welsh version of Nordic capitalism (high level of welfare state and some state control). [Post edited 12 Apr 2015 16:51]
|  |
| |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 16:50 - Apr 12 with 1644 views | trampie |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 14:41 - Apr 12 by exiledclaseboy |
One of the first things Cameron's government did was to whack VAT up to 20%. Now there's an insidious tax that hits those who can least afford it the hardest. |
Thatcher cut income tax for the rich and for the working man that was lucky enough to have a job, but paid for it (in part at least), by raising VAT, VAT being seen as a tax on the poor, as people on benefit, pensioners, students etc all pay it and VAT is a greater percentage of their small income than what it is for a rich person.
Its time Wales had a left of centre party in charge like Plaid, to spread the wealth more fairly, we have had both Labour and the Conservatives looking after the better off, its time to rebalance, otherwise there will be ghettos and no go areas in the country and the rich will be living behind high walls with guards, is that what they want ? the rich can join the Plaid revolution alongside business people, working people and the less well off. [Post edited 12 Apr 2015 16:57]
| |
| |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 17:02 - Apr 12 with 1626 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 14:34 - Apr 12 by Lord_Bony |
Milliband and Balls (great name) policy of spend spend and spend some more will be a repitition of last time. It s a quick fix just to get into office.
The problem is it leaves future generations to pay for it with austerity measures and cuts...a bit like buy now pay later...
not good. [Post edited 12 Apr 2015 14:37]
|
Another fallacy. Public spending (as a proportion of GDP) during Labour's 13 years in government last time was on average lower than it is now. It's only from next year (according to Treasury forecasts) that public spending will come back down to the average level during Labour's years, despite the much talked about "austerity". The notion that the last Labour government spent wildly simply isn't true. | |
| |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 17:27 - Apr 12 with 1615 views | orion3016 |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 17:02 - Apr 12 by exiledclaseboy |
Another fallacy. Public spending (as a proportion of GDP) during Labour's 13 years in government last time was on average lower than it is now. It's only from next year (according to Treasury forecasts) that public spending will come back down to the average level during Labour's years, despite the much talked about "austerity". The notion that the last Labour government spent wildly simply isn't true. |
Just a thought are you voting labour any chance?
Every alternative view is very quickly turned into a pro labour response |  |
| |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 17:32 - Apr 12 with 1609 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 17:27 - Apr 12 by orion3016 |
Just a thought are you voting labour any chance?
Every alternative view is very quickly turned into a pro labour response |
Yes I probably will be, for the first time since 1997. What's your point? The facts I posted are still facts regardless of who I vote for. | |
| |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 17:46 - Apr 12 with 1597 views | orion3016 |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 17:32 - Apr 12 by exiledclaseboy |
Yes I probably will be, for the first time since 1997. What's your point? The facts I posted are still facts regardless of who I vote for. |
Just making an observation on the thread and how your opinion is very strong on these matters particularly any criticisms aimed at labour, who I prey don't get elected | |
| |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 17:50 - Apr 12 with 1596 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 17:46 - Apr 12 by orion3016 |
Just making an observation on the thread and how your opinion is very strong on these matters particularly any criticisms aimed at labour, who I prey don't get elected |
Not at all, I've been one of Labour's biggest critics on here at times. You're entitled to your view of course, but my political persuasions aren't hidden at all.
So we agree that public spending under Labour wasn't as out of control as Tory supporters and others like to claim it was. That's good. That's not to say of course that Labour didn't make some horrendous decisions that contributed to (but did not cause) the last recession. Because they did. [Post edited 12 Apr 2015 17:51]
| |
| |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 17:57 - Apr 12 with 1590 views | trampie |
Its a mystery why a country like Wales that used to vote for a red socialist party now votes for the red Tories, same party in name only but with totally different policies and politics. . | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 18:05 - Apr 12 with 1578 views | orion3016 |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 17:50 - Apr 12 by exiledclaseboy |
Not at all, I've been one of Labour's biggest critics on here at times. You're entitled to your view of course, but my political persuasions aren't hidden at all.
So we agree that public spending under Labour wasn't as out of control as Tory supporters and others like to claim it was. That's good. That's not to say of course that Labour didn't make some horrendous decisions that contributed to (but did not cause) the last recession. Because they did. [Post edited 12 Apr 2015 17:51]
|
Indeed, the last recession was a global event and regardless of who was in government the UK would have been impacted. My worry about labour is the short term pledge to throw money at some of the services that have seen just reductions and then put us into a long term spiral of deficit.
Some of those public bodies that have suffered cuts have finally meant that local authority workers have had to now join the real world and earn their money rather than work to rule much like the carry on film at your convenience | |
| |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 18:18 - Apr 12 with 1564 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 17:02 - Apr 12 by exiledclaseboy |
Another fallacy. Public spending (as a proportion of GDP) during Labour's 13 years in government last time was on average lower than it is now. It's only from next year (according to Treasury forecasts) that public spending will come back down to the average level during Labour's years, despite the much talked about "austerity". The notion that the last Labour government spent wildly simply isn't true. |
That figure doesn't mean that public spending was not higher than it should have been under the Labour government though Clasie?
Public spending as a proportion of GDP per capita was higher under Labour. GDP as a whole needs to be counterbalanced by a rising population before measuring against public spending (given the number of public services that are to at least some extent, affected by the size of population).
The years under the Labour government saw at one point, what was it, 40 quarters of consecutive growth? That is the time for putting less into public spending as % of GDP per capita - saving for a rainy day, if you like.
Also, the problem with 'austerity' (and I referred to the fact a while ago that the cuts have actually not been that severe) is there are so many fixed costs with public spending - stuff they can't do a lot about - either because it is literally fixed (long term defence contract type stuff, pension payments and so on) or to all extents and purposes fixed due to the public outcry there would be if it was cut. |  | | |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 18:31 - Apr 12 with 1555 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 14:41 - Apr 12 by exiledclaseboy |
One of the first things Cameron's government did was to whack VAT up to 20%. Now there's an insidious tax that hits those who can least afford it the hardest. |
Totally agree.
I genuinely cannot understand the reluctance of the main parties to increase direct taxation at the expense of these ridiculously high indirect taxes (same as I disagree as you know with the 'mansion tax' for the same reason).
Of course, one of the reasons it doesn't work is because the whole notion of it only being on 'luxuries' doesn't really apply anywhere other than food (and even there, there are stupid anomalies). | | | |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 19:03 - Apr 12 with 1527 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 18:18 - Apr 12 by londonlisa2001 |
That figure doesn't mean that public spending was not higher than it should have been under the Labour government though Clasie?
Public spending as a proportion of GDP per capita was higher under Labour. GDP as a whole needs to be counterbalanced by a rising population before measuring against public spending (given the number of public services that are to at least some extent, affected by the size of population).
The years under the Labour government saw at one point, what was it, 40 quarters of consecutive growth? That is the time for putting less into public spending as % of GDP per capita - saving for a rainy day, if you like.
Also, the problem with 'austerity' (and I referred to the fact a while ago that the cuts have actually not been that severe) is there are so many fixed costs with public spending - stuff they can't do a lot about - either because it is literally fixed (long term defence contract type stuff, pension payments and so on) or to all extents and purposes fixed due to the public outcry there would be if it was cut. |
I don't disagree with much of that. Partly why I mentioned some of the horrendous decisions Labour took while in office. I'm just trying to counterbalance the accepted view that public spending increased wildly under Labour. It didn't. Could it have been lower? Probably but that'll depend on your perspective.
My problem with the way Cameron's government has implemented its cuts has always been the way they've been targeted. The wrong people have been made to bear the brunt in my view. | |
| |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 19:16 - Apr 12 with 1520 views | trampie |
Tax is a dirty word these days, Mrs Thatcher appealed to peoples greed and by and large the English fell for it, unfortunately Wales suffered more than most and that continues to be the case. | |
| |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 19:55 - Apr 12 with 1496 views | exiledclaseboy |
Green Party has announced a 60% tax rate on incomes over £150,000. | |
| |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:07 - Apr 12 with 1488 views | Lohengrin |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 19:55 - Apr 12 by exiledclaseboy |
Green Party has announced a 60% tax rate on incomes over £150,000. |
You can announce what you like, promise whatever tickles your fancy when you know full well you'll never have to implement any of it. |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
| |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:10 - Apr 12 with 1484 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:07 - Apr 12 by Lohengrin |
You can announce what you like, promise whatever tickles your fancy when you know full well you'll never have to implement any of it. |
I know, it's great isn't it. To nick a line from Blackadder the Third "We're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under-5s and the abolition of slavery." | |
| |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:14 - Apr 12 with 1480 views | Starsky |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 16:19 - Apr 12 by trampie |
Its time for a change, austerity measures are hitting the poor and the poorest areas hardest, Wales is being hit hard, only Plaid will look to halt austerity measures in Wales by getting those that can afford to contribute more to pay their fair share, the rich have got richer when the rest of society have got poorer.
Its time to stop rich tax dodgers, companies and individuals, benefit fraud is a drop in the ocean compared to tax avoidance by well off companies and individuals, yet that is all Labour and the Conservatives go off about is benefit fraud often committed by the less well off, a symptom of both Labour and the Conservatives looking after the bankers and the rich (yes i did say bankers, LOL) [Post edited 12 Apr 2015 16:22]
|
Good post Trampie, I respect your debating on this thread.
However, my biggest wish is for us to leave the EU.
I absolutely detest being a 'state' of Europe. so that rules out Plaid and the big 2.
With regards to what Labour & the Tories will offer.. More of the same. 
Seeing Tony Blair presenting his Euro sales pitch the other night made want to vomit.
How many backs did he scratch with that speech.
The only party offering me a Europe exit, bring other things to the table are a bit mad |  |
| It's just the internet, init. |
| |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:15 - Apr 12 with 1480 views | Lohengrin |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:10 - Apr 12 by exiledclaseboy |
I know, it's great isn't it. To nick a line from Blackadder the Third "We're for the compulsory serving of asparagus at breakfast, free corsets for the under-5s and the abolition of slavery." |
I think you've got yourself a bit mixed up there, Clase. That was Leanne Wood on Andrew Marr.  | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
| |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:15 - Apr 12 with 1480 views | Highjack |
Im definitely voting for the standing at the back dressed stupidly and looking stupid party. |  |
| |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:20 - Apr 12 with 1466 views | Highjack |
Why should we cower down to the continent that gave us hitler, napoleon and the smurfs? | |
| |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:20 - Apr 12 with 1466 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:15 - Apr 12 by Lohengrin |
I think you've got yourself a bit mixed up there, Clase. That was Leanne Wood on Andrew Marr. |
Yes but didn't she look lovely. | |
| |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:23 - Apr 12 with 1465 views | trampie |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:15 - Apr 12 by Lohengrin |
I think you've got yourself a bit mixed up there, Clase. That was Leanne Wood on Andrew Marr. |
Just heard the lovely Leanne has just auctioned her shoes, heard they raised 250 quid as well.  | |
| |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:23 - Apr 12 with 1464 views | yescomeon |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:07 - Apr 12 by Lohengrin |
You can announce what you like, promise whatever tickles your fancy when you know full well you'll never have to implement any of it. |
Maybe not but there is a lot of support growing for the Greens. In my sphere I would say the Greens are easily the most popular party. |  |
| |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:38 - Apr 12 with 1439 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The Official Planet Swans General Election 2015 Thread on 20:20 - Apr 12 by exiledclaseboy |
Yes but didn't she look lovely. |
a hint of Audrey Hepburn I would say.
"Moon River, wider than a mile ..." | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
