| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? 18:38 - Jun 19 with 5522 views | trampie |
I keep reading over and over again by bloggers and commentators [before as well as after the General Election] that Plaid need to become a proper nationalist party that being a nicey nice party, being all things to all people, not offending anyone at all costs is not working, being middle of the road and reasonable is not the way forward they say.
Progressive radical policies, calling a spade a spade and not being afraid of the 'I' word is what lots are saying is what Plaid should be doing.
Plaid are old Labour lite and they don't push the immigration question [English immigrants not overseas], the independence question, the language question etc etc, lots of old Plaid voters are saying Plaid need to toughen up and not shy away and duck certain issues.
Next years Assembly elections might well see the end of the current leadership if things don't go well at the ballot box, leaving the way open for others that might have less social justice policies and more cultural policies.
Hardcore Welsh nationalists don't vote Plaid [virtually in every case from what I can see] as they don't see them as a nationalist party and in my view they would be 100% right in that regard [regardless of what opponents and the London media label Plaid as], the argument is that being middle of the road isn't getting them anywhere and they would be better off being more of a nationalist party supporting Welsh causes than being a nicey nicey party. [Post edited 20 Jun 2015 11:10]
|  |
| |  |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 21:48 - Jun 19 with 1802 views | longlostjack |
English immigrants vs overseas immigrants. Discuss. |  |
| |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 22:00 - Jun 19 with 1787 views | Dr_Winston |
People from Britain moving to another part of Britain aren't immigrants.
I'd have thought that was fairly obvious. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
| |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 22:24 - Jun 19 with 1775 views | longlostjack |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 22:00 - Jun 19 by Dr_Winston |
People from Britain moving to another part of Britain aren't immigrants.
I'd have thought that was fairly obvious. |
I'll always remember back in the eighties visiting the grandfather of a friend of mine in Willesden. This street's completely changed because of the immigration he said - the only other white face on the street are the Thomases and they are bleeding Welsh. | |
| |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 22:27 - Jun 19 with 1769 views | Dr_Winston |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 22:24 - Jun 19 by longlostjack |
I'll always remember back in the eighties visiting the grandfather of a friend of mine in Willesden. This street's completely changed because of the immigration he said - the only other white face on the street are the Thomases and they are bleeding Welsh. |
The insular and downright hateful attitudes towards people moving a couple of dozen miles within one small island will never cease to baffle me. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
| |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 23:23 - Jun 19 with 1744 views | trampie |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 21:48 - Jun 19 by longlostjack |
English immigrants vs overseas immigrants. Discuss. |
Some people say English immigration is not like overseas immigration, English immigration is often old and therefore a drain on the Welsh nhs and hits the Welsh economy as lots obviously dont work, they might force house prices higher affecting young locals being able to afford a home in their own communities, there might also be a negative effect on the language also.
Overseas immigration is younger with despite what some scaremongers say a lot of them looking to work, pay taxes and contribute.
As has been pointed out by observers, no independent sovereign country would take large numbers of old people that would be a drain on a countries resources, they point out its happening to Wales.
Super nicey nice modern Plaid would never mention or tackle such issues they say.
As well as the older retirees there is an issue with English councils, like Liverpool and London, their councils apparently buying properties/sending tenants to Wales, often undesirable, unproductive types they want rid of (cheaper properties and getting problem tenants far away) , Plaid far to nice to tackle such issues, but a true nationalist party would be all over such issues like a rash. | |
| |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 23:31 - Jun 19 with 1738 views | Dr_Winston |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 23:23 - Jun 19 by trampie |
Some people say English immigration is not like overseas immigration, English immigration is often old and therefore a drain on the Welsh nhs and hits the Welsh economy as lots obviously dont work, they might force house prices higher affecting young locals being able to afford a home in their own communities, there might also be a negative effect on the language also.
Overseas immigration is younger with despite what some scaremongers say a lot of them looking to work, pay taxes and contribute.
As has been pointed out by observers, no independent sovereign country would take large numbers of old people that would be a drain on a countries resources, they point out its happening to Wales.
Super nicey nice modern Plaid would never mention or tackle such issues they say.
As well as the older retirees there is an issue with English councils, like Liverpool and London, their councils apparently buying properties/sending tenants to Wales, often undesirable, unproductive types they want rid of (cheaper properties and getting problem tenants far away) , Plaid far to nice to tackle such issues, but a true nationalist party would be all over such issues like a rash. |
Are you suggesting that English councils are making their tenants move to Wales because it's cheaper for them? | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
| |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 23:42 - Jun 19 with 1725 views | trampie |
Private landlords and housing associations seem to be happy to house people in Wales that are not from Wales. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 07:08 - Jun 20 with 1660 views | trampie |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 01:11 - Jun 20 by Lohengrin |
What I find encouraging, Tramp, are the reports of a red meeting in Rhonndda broken up by boys brandishing Yr Eryr Wen. Saunders would be looking down nodding approval at this development.
"To oppose communism is to stand tall in defence of our way of life, of our native values, for our sense of decency and our children's future in Christ's name we cannot falter"
Lewis, 1949.
EDIT: There's both a moral lesson and a choice for you there, Tramp.  [Post edited 20 Jun 2015 2:36]
|
When was that (1949 ?) ?
I dont see the connection to this thread ?
What moral lesson ?
Have you been drinking strong alcohol ? [Post edited 20 Jun 2015 7:09]
| |
| |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 09:49 - Jun 20 with 1624 views | Dr_Winston |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 23:42 - Jun 19 by trampie |
Private landlords and housing associations seem to be happy to house people in Wales that are not from Wales. |
Do you have a sign in your window saying "No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs and especially no Saes"? | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
| |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 10:56 - Jun 20 with 1600 views | scottishjack |
OP...What do Plaid actually stand for? What are their policies? Honest question because I have no idea...What makes them stand out from the rest? |  | | |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 11:04 - Jun 20 with 1597 views | trampie |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 09:49 - Jun 20 by Dr_Winston |
Do you have a sign in your window saying "No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs and especially no Saes"? |
I don't do you ? | |
| |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 11:17 - Jun 20 with 1584 views | trampie |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 10:56 - Jun 20 by scottishjack |
OP...What do Plaid actually stand for? What are their policies? Honest question because I have no idea...What makes them stand out from the rest? |
Social justice policies is what separates Plaid from the traditional big Westminster parties the traditional big Westminster parties are all right wing and Plaid are politically in the middle [possibly slightly left of centre but basically very middle of the road], the SNP and the Greens are quite close to Plaid. UKIP, Lib-Dems [currently], Labour [currently] and the Conservatives are at the opposite end of the political scale. [Post edited 20 Jun 2015 11:22]
| |
| |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 11:22 - Jun 20 with 1578 views | dgt73 |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 10:56 - Jun 20 by scottishjack |
OP...What do Plaid actually stand for? What are their policies? Honest question because I have no idea...What makes them stand out from the rest? |
Independence from the rest of the UK ( but they don't like to say it ) and to be submerged in the failure that is the EU. In other words international communists. A bunch of losers. |  |
| |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 11:39 - Jun 20 with 1554 views | trampie |
Some Welsh would like to see an independent sovereign Welsh socialist republic state called Cymru.
Others would like to see Wales as an independent state run on other lines.
Others would like a British federal state.
Others would like a Welsh state with a Welsh monarchy.
Others like things more or less as they but with more powers.
Its seems to be a broad church looking from the outside, but having said that there are those that used to be inside the church that now find themselves outside who have an independent Wales agenda from a slightly right of centre perspective
[a certain poster on here might fit that disenfranchised category ?] and they are the ones in many cases calling for a more nationalistic approach. | |
| |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 12:03 - Jun 20 with 1535 views | scottishjack |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 11:39 - Jun 20 by trampie |
Some Welsh would like to see an independent sovereign Welsh socialist republic state called Cymru.
Others would like to see Wales as an independent state run on other lines.
Others would like a British federal state.
Others would like a Welsh state with a Welsh monarchy.
Others like things more or less as they but with more powers.
Its seems to be a broad church looking from the outside, but having said that there are those that used to be inside the church that now find themselves outside who have an independent Wales agenda from a slightly right of centre perspective
[a certain poster on here might fit that disenfranchised category ?] and they are the ones in many cases calling for a more nationalistic approach. |
In my school days the Welsh teacher was a fierce little woman, and to this day, probably the most passionate person I have ever met about Wales and being Welsh...
The problem is (and this is just my opinion/experience) that there aren't enough people like her who care enough. When I go back to Scotland to visit, the history and heritage is right in your face, it's everywhere and the Scots are proud and knowledgeable about their past, it just doesn't seem to be the case in Wales so much.
Just my opinion, but I think that's where Plaid fall short, there isn't as much of a national identity, so people don't care as much... I'm not explaining this well, but I know what I mean... | | | |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 12:30 - Jun 20 with 1518 views | trampie |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 12:03 - Jun 20 by scottishjack |
In my school days the Welsh teacher was a fierce little woman, and to this day, probably the most passionate person I have ever met about Wales and being Welsh...
The problem is (and this is just my opinion/experience) that there aren't enough people like her who care enough. When I go back to Scotland to visit, the history and heritage is right in your face, it's everywhere and the Scots are proud and knowledgeable about their past, it just doesn't seem to be the case in Wales so much.
Just my opinion, but I think that's where Plaid fall short, there isn't as much of a national identity, so people don't care as much... I'm not explaining this well, but I know what I mean... |
Yes you right, generally the Welsh don't know their own history as they are not taught it by the British State and they do have a history to be proud of, also the modern Welsh are overrun by others unlike modern Scotland. | |
| |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 12:56 - Jun 20 with 1500 views | Kilkennyjack |
Ever since the second world war wales has been bottom of every prosperity table published by uk government. And top of every table based on poverty. Nothing changes.
By welsh people taking control and making their own decisions then there is a chance at least to offer welsh people an improved quality of life.
All the parties take a uk based view which often disadvantages wales - think heathrow expansion, hs2, crossrail, etc - no benefit to wales at all. Meanwhile the north wales to south wales link road for example does not really exist.
So put up or shit up. Take control or let the London luvies continue to treat wales as an after thought.
At least plaid always puts welsh interests first, nobody else can. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
|
| |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 12:56 - Jun 20 with 1500 views | Kilkennyjack |
Ever since the second world war wales has been bottom of every prosperity table published by uk government. And top of every table based on poverty. Nothing changes.
By welsh people taking control and making their own decisions then there is a chance at least to offer welsh people an improved quality of life.
All the parties take a uk based view which often disadvantages wales - think heathrow expansion, hs2, crossrail, etc - no benefit to wales at all. Meanwhile the north wales to south wales link road for example does not really exist.
So put up or shut up. Take control or let the London luvies continue to treat wales as an after thought.
At least plaid always puts welsh interests first, nobody else can. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
|
| |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 13:20 - Jun 20 with 1485 views | perchrockjack |
The health service in Northern Wales is so bad our (WIRRAL) Hospital and those in Manchester are "suffering" an influx of Welsh visitor patients for treatment therefore adding to the pressure for treatment and its cost. Cancer treatment here (Wirral) excellent and as there are no cancer specialists in much of Northern and central Wales people from Abersoch to Anglesey find themselves having to travel long distances to ENGLAND for the best treatment. Some are renting property in this area just to have treatment. Glan Clwyd is an appalling hospital .
If the likes of trampie and his pitiful aide de camp are that much intimidated or put off by England and the middle classes-whoever the feck they are- then really they should live in a cave ,plenty of undiscovered Im sure in the Swansea Valley OR simply accept Wales is skint, rudderless and unable to provide the best health care its people deserves -and they do. Its why the Welsh should be very grateful to England for keeping many of its people alive to argue amongst themselves.
Truly, it shows how Wales is so reliant on England and frankly to see Trampies unadulterated puerile nationalistic crap is too sad for words.
Finally ,its hardly likely an independent WALES would build more and better hospitals with the resources it has, ie water and tourism .
My wife is still alive due to the research done in a particular form of cancer ; this work done by doctors/chemists who are wiling to trial new drugs which are unavailable in many ,if not all parts of Wales. There are many cancer sufferers in Wales alive today who ve benefitted from innovative drugs/treatment tested at Clatterbridge hospital .
Reason for above is to illustrate that alienating many English people and the country of England and the distain some crackpots have for it is clearly dangerous and the reason I say plaid cymru are no joke and simply a real threat to Wales once the veneer of respectability is stripped away.
Make no mistake, WALES needs England and needs her to be prosperous. England doesn't need Wales at all, apart from holidays and the odd sport trips. |  |
| |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 13:44 - Jun 20 with 1461 views | dgt73 |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 12:56 - Jun 20 by Kilkennyjack |
Ever since the second world war wales has been bottom of every prosperity table published by uk government. And top of every table based on poverty. Nothing changes.
By welsh people taking control and making their own decisions then there is a chance at least to offer welsh people an improved quality of life.
All the parties take a uk based view which often disadvantages wales - think heathrow expansion, hs2, crossrail, etc - no benefit to wales at all. Meanwhile the north wales to south wales link road for example does not really exist.
So put up or shit up. Take control or let the London luvies continue to treat wales as an after thought.
At least plaid always puts welsh interests first, nobody else can. |
A bit like the Southern Irish you mean with their quality of life compared to the UK......  ..deluded. | |
| |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 13:50 - Jun 20 with 1456 views | perchrockjack |
I seem to recall so many people being subjected to the Irish charm and then having a roof /driveway done followed by a trip to the ATM. Scum bastards.
Also recall lot of girls coming over for abortions .
I m not keen on the southern Irish. Charming on outside but often consumed with bitterness/jealousy and is no conincidnece in the fifties it was "no blacks and Irish". WaS WRONG but shows how distrusted the Irish were/are | |
| |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 15:25 - Jun 20 with 1426 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 13:20 - Jun 20 by perchrockjack |
The health service in Northern Wales is so bad our (WIRRAL) Hospital and those in Manchester are "suffering" an influx of Welsh visitor patients for treatment therefore adding to the pressure for treatment and its cost. Cancer treatment here (Wirral) excellent and as there are no cancer specialists in much of Northern and central Wales people from Abersoch to Anglesey find themselves having to travel long distances to ENGLAND for the best treatment. Some are renting property in this area just to have treatment. Glan Clwyd is an appalling hospital .
If the likes of trampie and his pitiful aide de camp are that much intimidated or put off by England and the middle classes-whoever the feck they are- then really they should live in a cave ,plenty of undiscovered Im sure in the Swansea Valley OR simply accept Wales is skint, rudderless and unable to provide the best health care its people deserves -and they do. Its why the Welsh should be very grateful to England for keeping many of its people alive to argue amongst themselves.
Truly, it shows how Wales is so reliant on England and frankly to see Trampies unadulterated puerile nationalistic crap is too sad for words.
Finally ,its hardly likely an independent WALES would build more and better hospitals with the resources it has, ie water and tourism .
My wife is still alive due to the research done in a particular form of cancer ; this work done by doctors/chemists who are wiling to trial new drugs which are unavailable in many ,if not all parts of Wales. There are many cancer sufferers in Wales alive today who ve benefitted from innovative drugs/treatment tested at Clatterbridge hospital .
Reason for above is to illustrate that alienating many English people and the country of England and the distain some crackpots have for it is clearly dangerous and the reason I say plaid cymru are no joke and simply a real threat to Wales once the veneer of respectability is stripped away.
Make no mistake, WALES needs England and needs her to be prosperous. England doesn't need Wales at all, apart from holidays and the odd sport trips. |
I disagree with the anti English sentiments of Trampie but I would point out that people in England do like turning on a tap and have water come out.
The power stations find it pretty helpful to use water as well.
So actually it's quite a bit more than sport and tourism. | | | |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 15:49 - Jun 20 with 1416 views | trampie |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 13:20 - Jun 20 by perchrockjack |
The health service in Northern Wales is so bad our (WIRRAL) Hospital and those in Manchester are "suffering" an influx of Welsh visitor patients for treatment therefore adding to the pressure for treatment and its cost. Cancer treatment here (Wirral) excellent and as there are no cancer specialists in much of Northern and central Wales people from Abersoch to Anglesey find themselves having to travel long distances to ENGLAND for the best treatment. Some are renting property in this area just to have treatment. Glan Clwyd is an appalling hospital .
If the likes of trampie and his pitiful aide de camp are that much intimidated or put off by England and the middle classes-whoever the feck they are- then really they should live in a cave ,plenty of undiscovered Im sure in the Swansea Valley OR simply accept Wales is skint, rudderless and unable to provide the best health care its people deserves -and they do. Its why the Welsh should be very grateful to England for keeping many of its people alive to argue amongst themselves.
Truly, it shows how Wales is so reliant on England and frankly to see Trampies unadulterated puerile nationalistic crap is too sad for words.
Finally ,its hardly likely an independent WALES would build more and better hospitals with the resources it has, ie water and tourism .
My wife is still alive due to the research done in a particular form of cancer ; this work done by doctors/chemists who are wiling to trial new drugs which are unavailable in many ,if not all parts of Wales. There are many cancer sufferers in Wales alive today who ve benefitted from innovative drugs/treatment tested at Clatterbridge hospital .
Reason for above is to illustrate that alienating many English people and the country of England and the distain some crackpots have for it is clearly dangerous and the reason I say plaid cymru are no joke and simply a real threat to Wales once the veneer of respectability is stripped away.
Make no mistake, WALES needs England and needs her to be prosperous. England doesn't need Wales at all, apart from holidays and the odd sport trips. |
I thought that the latest exciting possible cure/slowing down for some forms cancer that the entire World has been waiting for was just discovered in Wales ?
The English oldies are putting the Welsh nhs under terrible strain, the Welsh that go to England tend to be young and vibrant and pay income tax and work, they contribute to the wealth of England.
The other way about the English that come to Wales tend to be old and retirement age and put a huge strain on Welsh services, the English nhs should be made to pay for their treatment but they don't it comes out of the Welsh nhs budget, when Welsh patients get sent over the border the Welsh nhs pay, when the English wrinklies retire here they are classed as Welsh and the Welsh nhs pay for them.
Welsh politicians should be screaming from the rooftops but they are Brit Nats and the ones that aren't Brit Nats that are Plaid don't say nothing because they know that the Brit Nats and Brit Nat supporters and the Brit Nats dominated media will label them as racists, its what they do, they scaremonger and falsely label.
Some parts of Wales are known as 'Costa Geriatrica' parts of Wales make Eastbourne's population look young. [Post edited 20 Jun 2015 16:24]
| |
| |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 15:57 - Jun 20 with 1401 views | scottishjack |
| Plaid need to drop being a nicey nice party ? on 15:49 - Jun 20 by trampie |
I thought that the latest exciting possible cure/slowing down for some forms cancer that the entire World has been waiting for was just discovered in Wales ?
The English oldies are putting the Welsh nhs under terrible strain, the Welsh that go to England tend to be young and vibrant and pay income tax and work, they contribute to the wealth of England.
The other way about the English that come to Wales tend to be old and retirement age and put a huge strain on Welsh services, the English nhs should be made to pay for their treatment but they don't it comes out of the Welsh nhs budget, when Welsh patients get sent over the border the Welsh nhs pay, when the English wrinklies retire here they are classed as Welsh and the Welsh nhs pay for them.
Welsh politicians should be screaming from the rooftops but they are Brit Nats and the ones that aren't Brit Nats that are Plaid don't say nothing because they know that the Brit Nats and Brit Nat supporters and the Brit Nats dominated media will label them as racists, its what they do, they scaremonger and falsely label.
Some parts of Wales are known as 'Costa Geriatrica' parts of Wales make Eastbourne's population look young. [Post edited 20 Jun 2015 16:24]
|
There should just be a NHS Budget... Not a Welsh NHS, Scottish, English...It should just be the NHS!
And I'm sick of the political parties point scoring over the NHS as well, sorry to go a bit off topic here but the NHS should be above politics. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
