| Knee booed by horny fans? on 01:32 - Jan 1 with 1703 views | Dr_Parnassus |
My view is people like to feel they are fighting against something.
Using a neutral non political gesture won’t fuel that because everyone will agree. Making something political and divisive will make people push against it, those can then be labelled as racist in those peoples minds and you create the very thing that you want to fight against. People are continually looking for material to perpetuate their thirst to display virtue.
Everybody knows they can make the message less political and get everyone on board, but I am not totally convinced that is the intention. Having something to fight against seems more important to some than having the opportunity to solve the issue they claim to be fighting against. So they don’t necessarily enjoy the politics behind it but may enjoy the division it creates. | |
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| Knee booed by horny fans? on 01:46 - Jan 1 with 1684 views | Chief |
They aren't taking the knee under the bracket of any political stance or party though. There maybe some distant entity of a similar name given to the act of taking the knee. Well it may or may not stop racism, as a white man I don't think its for me to tell our players that the act they are doing is useless. If they think its making a difference and want to continue it, so be it.
Yes i doubt our millionaire players are raving Marxists or wish to further that cause and thus they don't see they are causing any political division because they are just taking a knee to support injustice towards black people. And as I've stated the only people who seem to causing division by miscontrueing the players actions as political are members of certain political parties organising these protests.
I've isolated it to Swansea because that's all im concerned about really. Because it's the club i support, and the players that i want to do well. Its unsavoury at other clubs too but that's their business. As you say what Swansea City players do has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on what may or may not be happening in America. And it probably wouldn't if everyone somehow made the link and got behind this so called evil entity across the Atlantic. It really does not translate at all.
Yes, timescale makes a lot of difference because few people are making the link now. By the time this party ever stands in Swansea, Wales or UK the taking the knee will probably have already ended long long before naturally and no one in their right mind are going to be inspired to vote for them because Swansea City players knelt before kick off. In reality any link that a few people probably will never make anyway will be long forgotten.
I fail to see how socialists, marxists or other left wing leaning people would in reality see this in any way convenient to their cause. There are far more pressing actual issues out there. Anyone who would google BLM are unlikely to find their way to the Socialist Labour Party page are they? Do you think that members of those parties envisage an increase in their votes at the next election as a result of players taking the knee?
No im not sure what actual affect its having or would have compared to other initiatives but again i don't think it's down to people like myself to decide that. As it stands players and clubs see it as purely a racial awareness issue. If they stopped doing it due to political pressure, wouldn't that mean that they would then be knowingly and consciously be being influenced by politics and therefore politicising the game? [Post edited 1 Jan 2021 1:49]
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| Knee booed by horny fans? on 01:56 - Jan 1 with 1674 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Taking the knee is synonymous with the BLM organisation, to pretend it isn’t is just silly. Being white has nothing to do with it, racism affects all races and everyone’s views on the subject matters... including the droves of black people conveniently ignored who are telling the droves of BLM protesters (most of which are white) why they should not be using their skin colour as a springboard to further their personal goals.
While you may want to isolate it to Swansea, that isn’t giving an honest perspective of the situation. It’s a global issue not a Swansea one, one that Swansea are involved with. We are going round in circles here, making the same points to eachother.
You think because they aren’t doing it politically then people should not show their disapproval. I am of the view that if you make a political gesture, be that intentional or otherwise - it WILL cause disapproval. Continuing to tell me the players intentions isn’t changing that fact because it’s not what it’s being done for that is the issue, it’s what it means to those that disapprove.
The timescale makes no difference, if a party is going to immediately make radical proposals or make them way down the line is irrelevant. What they stand for is the issue and that is a current thing not a future one. You don’t have to be a political party to have an effect on society that many don’t want - defunding the police being one of them.
Leftists see BLM as convenient to their cause because it is promoting their ideals. The BLM organisation did a lot to get the democrats into power; the democrats which claim to have many socialist ideals, or certainly a step towards it more than the alternative.
So again, if there is a gesture that everyone can get behind that nobody perceived as political - isn’t that more desirable? Why the fascination with the knee? | |
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| Knee booed by horny fans? on 02:23 - Jan 1 with 1664 views | Chief |
It really isn't to the vast majority of the population, footballers and teams and if some people now somehow see it as synonymous with the BLM political party that's only because protesters have made that distinction and publicising that link, that very few people in reality did previously. Yes indeed none of what you say in the rest of the paragraph there is necessarily false, but i struggle to see the relevance of that unless you're also against the knee because it apparently doesn't represent racism against other races?
Yes, but the fact is in real Swansea City football players doing this is having absolutely no bearing on the apparent issues occurring in America.
Yes people can show their disapproval, but through the proper channels that do not directly ostericise our teams footballers and staff. And they especially shouldn't be claiming to speak for all swans fans when they certainly do not. The players do not view it as a political gesture though, you've said that yourself. So i don't really see why they should be forced into stopping by 8 people booing them outside the liberty.
Its very relevant because the longer times goes on before this party emerges the memory of footballers taking a knee and any tenuous link between that action that only a small amount of people buy into anyway will be long forgotten and im sure should this party arrive they'll be making plenty of noise on their own and garnering publicity away from football for the knee to have any realistic viable impact. But again look at the reality of the situation here - how is anyone realistically going to start thinking that Swansea players taking a knee means defunding the police is a good idea? And if somehow someone had that epiphany, how are they going to manifest that want? Lobby Conservative, plaid or Labour to take it up as one of their policies!?
Players taking a knee in reality is promoting no left wing ideals whatsoever. It simply doesn't translate. The players, teams and most of the public have no idea that a political movement of the same name as the anti racism campaign funded Democrats. Frankly most people wouldn't care if they did know or what it meant. The fact is players taking a knee is garnering no funds, support or votes for any British or Welsh left wing party's at all is it?
I assume the knee is desirable to players and staff because it's synonymous with highlighting racial inequality. Far more so than it is synonymous with any political affiliation. | |
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| Knee booed by horny fans? on 02:40 - Jan 1 with 1647 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Again, it doesn’t matter what it DOESN’T represent to the ones partaking. It’s what it DOES represent to those that aren’t, which is the discussion.
Are you honestly saying if BLM was never in existence then the players would have somehow organically developed the BLM knee and BLM black power fist themselves? And it’s just pure coincidence that it’s the same as the BLM organisation, even their logo. Come on now Chief, you aren’t doing your views much justice by being so intentionally misleading.
Neither of us know what the players think. I don’t think it matters, whether they see it as political isn’t the point. Again, It’s what others see it as that matters. It’s the same premise as blackface isn’t it? You can’t say it’s ok because the people doing it aren’t doing it for offensive reasons. It’s the fact that people see it as offensive as to why it is frowned upon even if done in the most innocent of circumstances such as paying homage.
It is not a tenuous link, it’s an obvious and strong representation, not even a link. It’s like saying someone doing the Nazi salute now is a tenuous link to Nazism. The salute was designed for that very purpose, just as the black power fist and the knee was designed to represent BLM. If someone did the Nazi salute and said it doesn’t represent nazism to them and they are doing it to promote equality for the sexes - would you think that acceptable? Of course not.
So again. It makes little difference why someone is or isn’t doing something. The point is what that action means to some as to why they will not like it. And more importantly, if the intention is to get everyone on board with an anti-racism message then why insist on doing something that many will see as a divisive political gesture. You don’t seem to have addressed that.
Putting a knee on the ground isn’t saving anyone from racism, it’s a modern creation. If it was then we could tolerate the political links because it is an essential act saving people. However it isn’t, it has no saving powers in the slightest and is exactly the same as something more neutral like linking arms - in fact that would get even more people on board. So why keep what is such a divisive action to many people?
Claiming it is synonymous with an anti racism while calling it “tenuous” to like it to the BLM organisation is not an honest point of view. I believe you are being quite disingenuous there.
As for funding left wing parties, of course it does. It’s broken into Hollywood and sports because it is promoting virtue and homage to BLM which is garnering millions of dollars in funding which is being redirected to leftist political parties and making them more powerful. If BLM had no support or reach then they wouldn’t be getting a cent, it’s the fact that sport, media and Hollywood promotes them with such little understanding of it that makes them the entity they are.
They have had a massive impact on getting Biden into the White House as well as making others more powerful that have the ideals to defund the police. Which doesn’t represent the wishes of any race, including African Americans.
People don’t like it and it won’t change no matter how much you vilify them. If racism and the fight against it was the true goal, then it wouldn’t even be a second thought to make it palatable for everyone and remove the divisive politics. But having everyone on the same page fighting the same cause means there is no longer a cause to fight for, everyone agrees... which clearly isn’t what people want. You can’t earn virtue it there is nothing to fight against or nobody to vilify. That’s the social media age for you. [Post edited 1 Jan 2021 4:07]
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| Knee booed by horny fans? on 10:17 - Jan 1 with 1565 views | Brynmill_Jack |
I think a lot of poorly educated white people (who can’t really grasp what life must be like for minorities in different parts of the world) are seeing just what you’ve described, ignorant however that the symbols of white power (or shall we just call it power - because it’s all over the globe) are everywhere and within plain sight.
Whether this “taking the knee” has run its course and perhaps the “kick it out” campaign should be refocused/ rejuvenated (as a previous poster said) is a very interesting question. | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Knee booed by horny fans? on 10:36 - Jan 1 with 1551 views | jackrabbit |
I congratulate the posters on this board for an intelligent and reasoned debate on what is a divisive and fractious subject. I’ve been mightily impressed by some of the contributions I’ve read. It’s a direct contrast with one of the other boards where the debate never gets started. Anybody trying to put the case against BLM is immediately labelled ‘racist’, ‘idiot’ or worse. Not much nuanced thinking there.
It’s a pity that some of these people are not better acquainted with one of the British BLM leaders - a lady called Sasha Johnson. They might have taken the knee themselves out of sheer admiration. In August Ms Johnson tweeted; “The white man will not be our equal but our slave”. I’m sure the FA, EFL and PL all wish Sasha all the best in her exciting project. The point is Ms Johnson’s views are not especially extreme in a foul organisation that wishes to dismantle capitalism and the family. Taking the knee signals support for that organisation not for racial equality. It’s like sticking out your right arm and shouting ‘Sieg Heil’ then claiming ‘it’s just a gesture. Nothing to do with old Adolf mate’. This a letter a Milwall fan wrote to the Milwall board:
“ The whole BLM movement is insulting to many because it seeks to destroy our country’s values. I don’t mean nationalism or jingoism but the values that unite people across the political spectrum. A belief in the rule of law, free speech, respect for others and the social justice that many of our forebears had to fight for in the trade union movement.
Your excuse for supporting this movement is an insult to our intelligence and an overtly political statement. It’s particularly damaging at this time when so many fans are suffering financial hardship that you couldn’t even begin to understand. By supporting BLM you are not healing divisions but creating them. I fear that your actions will cause not just a division between players and fans but a gulf of betrayal that will never be bridged.
If you want to campaign against discrimination then please do so, but supporting BLM is the wrong way to do it.”
Excellent points very well made. | | | |
| Knee booed by horny fans? on 10:40 - Jan 1 with 1546 views | KeithHaynes |
Some of that was excellent 😉 | |
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| Knee booed by horny fans? on 11:15 - Jan 1 with 1515 views | Glossolalia |
This is all becoming painfully cyclical. To me, it seems both sides are too ready to categorise their opponents as either far left or far right. Most on here are neither. This then gets everyone's hackles up and causes pointless, wide-of-the-mark insults.
I can see that for many this is a simple gesture, washed of its BLM associations. I can also sympathise, I suppose, with those who think the booing is simply racist, even if i vehemently disagree.
But overall, a great deal of people are fed up of politics in football, or any sport. And in my opinion, it is impossible to detach this particular protest from an extreme organisation. BLM are far left. Their views would scare most on here. Sport is becoming a virtue-signalling cringe-fest with no real tangible, satisfactory progress being made.
If sport really cared, it should redouble its efforts, and pioneer its own anti-racism march (Kick it Out Harder?) and not hastily associate itself with a such a polarising, far-left organisation, or whatever campaign is 'current'.
Happy New Year all. Let's hope for some newfound perspicacity and understanding. [Post edited 1 Jan 2021 11:18]
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| Knee booed by horny fans? on 11:41 - Jan 1 with 1487 views | NotLoyal |
AntiFa now is not AntiFa UK of twenty years ago.
Which makes them pointless and useless. | |
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| Knee booed by horny fans? on 12:13 - Jan 1 with 1474 views | trampie |
The issue around the far right in Swansea protesting against taking the knee is what else they stand for, they take a popularist issue on as a crusade as some people have a problem with taking the knee, but these people are not representative of the traditional views of the people of Swansea or Wales, it's sad to see such a proud club being infiltrated by people with such alien views, has Swansea and Wales changed to that degree ?, has Swansea and Wales politically left of centre working class heritage gone ?, has Swansea identity of being a proud Welsh team gone ? | |
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| Knee booed by horny fans? on 12:30 - Jan 1 with 1456 views | Chief |
There's no point going on about it but it's pretty obvious that in reality the Swans players taking the knee is not going to result in any left wing takeover or further the ambitions of any political party that does not exist here.
The really mad insane thing about it all is....
At some point we are going to be allowed back into watch our beloved Swans after a year away. There'll be a great buzz around, everyones going to be excited. And the first thing some of our fans will do upon arrival instead greeting old friends&soaking up the atmosphere?
Booing our own players 
Bonkers. Absolutely Bonkers | |
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| Knee booed by horny fans? on 12:34 - Jan 1 with 1454 views | angryjack |
It should stop now as you can see it is causing divisions and anger,if crowds were in stadiums I think fights would break out over this,,all lives matter,I'm dead against this its gone on far too long they have made their point..it don't happen in rugby or other sports and shouldn't either but if it did maybe one or two games but not this,,its causing more harm than good what I can see | | | |
| Knee booed by horny fans? on 13:44 - Jan 1 with 1410 views | onehunglow |
It serves no purpose at all apart from showing pitifully hypocritical virtual signalling.
Who seriously doubts that there is in football "racists" or people who prefer their own bending the knee purely as a gesture.
Few have the guts to stop this drivel.
It doesnt help the mantra of equality in any way and when crowds return you will see mas booing ,if it is still going on.
Any club having players NOT bending is pilloried,as were were Millwall.
My God,just how hypocritical a bunch of cretin are we all.
It's like people from the 92% white city of Swansea bleeding for the racially oppressed and shamed over our colonial past. peak to white people in Burnley,Blackburn,Preston,Dewbury ,Rotherham and you will see a different slant on things | |
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| Knee booed by horny fans? on 13:47 - Jan 1 with 1407 views | Dr_Parnassus |
That’s a very short sighted view of the issue though isn’t it. It’s a global issue not a Swansea one.
BLM have already done their part to change politics in America and that was done via donations made by people who saw such things as sports people kneeling and Hollywood virtue signalling. Those funds then went to Democratic campaigns and efforts to defund the police. So yes, these gestures do have political knock on effects no matter how insignificant they may seem if isolated. I doubt those booing were booing the players, more voicing their disapproval of the gesture itself. | |
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| Knee booed by horny fans? on 13:52 - Jan 1 with 1400 views | trampie |
The ones booing in Swansea are the far right, whether or not they are able to rope in ordinary people I don't know but the main ones have a record of far right activism. | |
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| Knee booed by horny fans? on 14:30 - Jan 1 with 1364 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Make a far left gesture and people will oppose it, including the far right. Rocket science it really is not.
Why people are pretending to be shocked I don’t know. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy, make a political gesture (whether it is intended to be or not) - some won’t like it and will let that be known. Really is that simple. [Post edited 1 Jan 2021 14:31]
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| Knee booed by horny fans? on 14:30 - Jan 1 with 1362 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
The BBC did a good show on taking the knee in the American Football with Marc Chapman Jason Bell and Osi Umenyiora. This related to taking the knee during the US anthem.
Jason said he would join in but Osi gave his reasons for not taking part. Quite moving it was.
[Post edited 1 Jan 2021 14:32]
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| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Knee booed by horny fans? on 14:35 - Jan 1 with 1353 views | Jack59 |
You are right about fights breaking out in stadiums, it's only a matter of time.
This political alignment with BLM will also see a reduction in fan base in coming years, we will lose the quieter ones, the ones we are not hearing anything from. The most we'll hear from them will be six months after they fail to renew, they may say something like ''It's all got too political now'' | | | |
| Knee booed by horny fans? on 14:42 - Jan 1 with 1341 views | trampie |
Union jacks and loyalist flags in the SWANSEA end ?, somebody getting a Welsh indie flag banned, several abolish the Senedd posts on a Swans football site, something out of the ordinary is going on compared to what one would have expected years ago.
I was the first to say on here (because people are politically illiterate) that the great and the good wearing badges had no idea about the people behind the BLM, it was laughable that capitalist enterprises like Sky had their presenters wearing such badges, they clearly had no idea.
This BLM thing is an old thing in a new guise, black power was about in the sixties and was stronger then than it is now. | |
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| Knee booed by horny fans? on 14:58 - Jan 1 with 1320 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
Black power symbolism has resurfaced during the taking of the knee. The clenched black fist. PLayers once given the sniff of power to make a statement will not hold back. Its opn day in the EFL. The media are very keen that teams ignore protocols and take matters into their own hands. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Knee booed by horny fans? on 15:25 - Jan 1 with 1303 views | trampie |
What is so dangerous about Socialism ? | |
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| Knee booed by horny fans? on 15:31 - Jan 1 with 1294 views | trampie |
Good post. | |
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| Knee booed by horny fans? on 15:55 - Jan 1 with 1271 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Socialism leads to a lack of incentive to improve lives, it hampers innovation and lessens productivity. There is also a clear path from socialism into communism, especially under the current movement where there seems to be a desire to police thought, police speech and promote identity politics above all. There has not been a clearer path to communism in my lifetime in America than now. Which is a scary thought, and why latinos came out in force to vote against the Democrats. Many of them coming from South America know exactly what it’s like to live under the suffocating rule of communism and socialism. [Post edited 1 Jan 2021 15:55]
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| Knee booed by horny fans? on 16:17 - Jan 1 with 1249 views | Jack59 |
I will be booing the players who take the knee at my first opportunity, I didn't pay for a season ticket to watch players I support financially attempt to align our club to any political organisation, let alone one as dubious as BLM
With all this in mind, I will have the choice of not renewing for next year..
As I have said before, I will be wearing my ''Say NO to RACISM'' shirt whilst booing, but I believe it's the only way people can make an impact, If it continues until the end of the season, football will be very negatively impacted for many years to come, I really can't see there being tangible benefits from bending the knee. that can't be produced by the players linking arms.
I think the problem is not being helped by the relationship and dependency SKY TV has with the EPL multi millionaire players.
In the long term, if enough people cancel Sky Sports, the knee bending would probably stop. | | | |
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