| FFP Headroom / P&S BS 14:20 - Aug 21 with 17753 views | Lblock |
Can someone break it down for an idiot like me to understand?
I seem to have it wrong but my understanding is:-
You “allowed” (some would say encouraged) to lose £13Mill a season or £39Mill over 3 years.
Every 3 years the reset button is pressed.
Youth, training, infrastructure and our FFP fine are allowable costs and do not contribute to this amount.
So we are losing a Mill a month x 12 x 3 = £36mill
On top of that add transfers
SJ £625k
Field £250k
Dozzell £1.25Mill
Dykes £1.25Mill
Bonne £1.25Mill
Jordi £400k
Willock £450k
Dickie £1.5Mill
Dunne £450k
Loan fees say £250k
Say about £8.5mill with agent fees thrown in.
So that’s £44.5Mill
Deduct transfers
Eze £18Mill
Jordi £450k (inc a loan fee at first)
Others ….. buttons and fluff.
Balance = £26.05Mill or £8.68Mill a year
Now I’ve NEVER been a fan of us throwing money around and told the Bungle Brothers that their faces. However I just don’t see how we are so perilously close to the FFP limit wire if the above is anywhere near right???
More than happy to be shown I’m way off but I’ve based the above on the factual grounds that are the internet, this website and noises from the club CEO and DoF.
Losing the amount of money we do is a disgrace but I can’t see how this rhetoric that the owners would spend a bit more but their hands are tied actually adds up.
Relaxes back into armchair…….
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 03:02 - Aug 22 with 2312 views | Benny_the_Ball |
That's the general idea LBlock but it's a rolling 3-year period rather than a reset every 3 years.
Also transfer fees tend to be spread out over the life of a player's contract. For example, if a player signed a 4-year contract and their fee was £1m then this would be accounted for by recording expenditure of £250k per year over 4 years (assuming the players stays for the entire duration of the contract).
Derby got into trouble for going against generally accepted accounting principles by loading the bulk of players' fees towards the final year of the contract. So using the above scenario as an example, instead of recording expenditure as £250k per year over 4 years, it was £80k year 1, £100k year 2, £120k year 3, £700k year 4. The hope here was that they would achieve promotion by year 4 and therefore plug the hole with PL money. [Post edited 22 Aug 2022 3:04]
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 08:08 - Aug 22 with 2169 views | Lblock |
171 employees?!
113 players, managers and coaches... and none of them.... not a man jack... knows how to defend a set piece?
Jeeze Louise..
What a club | |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 08:43 - Aug 22 with 2103 views | R_from_afar |
That's a bit harsh unless you know for sure that Connor has already been asked for his tactical input  | |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 09:13 - Aug 22 with 2076 views | derbyhoop |
Academy players don't stay for the love of the game. We used over 60 in the U23s last season. Even on as little as 250 per week that soon adds up.
Hence so many going out on loan. Kelman & Owens, so far. Expecting plenty more. | |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 09:21 - Aug 22 with 2058 views | Northernr |
The only slight caveat on that is your academy costs are FFP exempt. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 09:32 - Aug 22 with 1984 views | toboboly |
If Connor is on £2.4k a week then he needs to up his game considerably. | |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 09:44 - Aug 22 with 1946 views | derbyhoop |
Even the wages and those of coaching staff?
If you exclude those, how do we end up with 171 employees? Do we count the numbers and salaries in the accounts but exclude them for P&S purposes? | |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 09:51 - Aug 22 with 1913 views | elnombre |
With their customary foresight and ruthless efficiency though, EFL rules appear to make no provision for inflation - I don't think that much-quoted 3-year £39M figure has changed since 2016, and probably not in fact since inception (2014?).
To be fair, there has been some tinkering with the thresholds post-covid, but you might reasonably expect a figure nearer 43M from this year, and closer to 50M on proper indexing.
Although that does still involve spending quite a lot of money that doesn't belong to us. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 10:00 - Aug 22 with 1860 views | BAWHoops |
The losses last season would've been big.
I'd imagine this season the wage bill has come right down with Austin and Barbet now gone, plus Moses.
The litmus test is going to be Willock's contract. He's obviously going top want par with Johansen at least, can we afford that? And if he moves to that then Dieng and Chair will start itching for it as well (although they have longer to run on their deals).
It doesn't help that the £5 - £10m market has completely collapsed. Was talking to a friend who is an agent and he was saying that it's free transfers or £20m deals... that's it.
We very much need to sell one of the big 3 (Chair, Willock, Dieng) or else we are going to bob around mid table for a good few years yet | |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 10:01 - Aug 22 with 1859 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Why would you want to even if you could?
Derby, Bolton, and Portsmouth for the defence m‘laud. [Post edited 22 Aug 2022 11:05]
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 10:07 - Aug 22 with 1831 views | terryb |
That would be the case Derby.
How much will we save this year from training at our own facilities rather than paying rent for two sites? Not that I think this would allow us to spend /waste the saving!
On that subject, as the facility is for the whole club, how is the cost allowable for accademy calculated? | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 11:18 - Aug 22 with 1703 views | WatfordR |
Does anyone have a link to the thread summarising our FFP position after the last set of accounts? Done by someone who knows what he's on about, I've tried finding it but can't. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 11:22 - Aug 22 with 1697 views | Nushnool |
Yeah, exactly that. The 171 employees is everyone in the club; how many of those people are Youth players/coaches, and their salaries that are exempted for FFP calculations, aren't publicly available. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 11:23 - Aug 22 with 1695 views | Northernr |
Yes, the numbers on the accounts include everything, the P&S calculations have exclusions. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 11:24 - Aug 22 with 1690 views | Northernr |
I'd be surprised if Willock has any interest in extending a contract. Him and his agent/dad will be very, very aware of the sort of deals that will be on offer for him as a free transfer. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 11:37 - Aug 22 with 1637 views | Myke |
If that is the case we need to sell NOW. He has done enough in his two appearances to show his quality, at the very least at the top end of the Championship. Watford for example. Get 5M for him now with add-ons, a lot better than another BOS situation in 12 months time. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 11:38 - Aug 22 with 1633 views | DavieQPR |
Losses that can be shown as Covid related are deductible for P & S purposes. Payment for transfers in and out are not one lump sum but spread over a period of time. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 12:01 - Aug 22 with 1598 views | daveB |
If Watford do sell all of their front 3 this week will be interesting to see if that opens up the market, could see them coming in for Willock | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:15 - Aug 22 with 1487 views | terryb |
We can only sell if an offer is received. I've not heard of any club making an enquiry for any of our players this summer. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:20 - Aug 22 with 1468 views | Myke |
We neither, but that would be unsolicited enquiries. Can we not circulate a player's availability to other clubs? In the old days known as being 'put on the transfer list'. Is that still a thing? | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:26 - Aug 22 with 1453 views | terryb |
I don't know Myke, but I have my doubts that it still theoretically exists. Of course, a club would let it be known that they want rid of x. y & z, but that would reduce their sale value considerably. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:37 - Aug 22 with 1418 views | derbyhoop |
Thanks Clive.
FFP seems to be on a similar level to undisclosed transfer fees!! | |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:40 - Aug 22 with 1392 views | connell10 |
I'd be astonished , he ain't fully fit yet ! | |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:43 - Aug 22 with 1377 views | francisbowles |
This is assuming that he would agree to such a move. It might be better, for CW, to sit tight and see what develops in January, next summer or later.
I agree though, much as I hate the idea, if we get a decent offer and he is willing to move then we have to accept it. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 13:47 - Aug 22 with 1367 views | Northernr |
Well yeh, I mean for instance look at the losses Stoke have announced last three seasons and yet still apparently somehow within the boundaries.
Simon Dorset always estimates our 'disallowable costs' around £4.5m a year when he's doing his analysis on it. | | | |
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