| FFP Headroom / P&S BS 14:20 - Aug 21 with 17749 views | Lblock |
Can someone break it down for an idiot like me to understand?
I seem to have it wrong but my understanding is:-
You “allowed” (some would say encouraged) to lose £13Mill a season or £39Mill over 3 years.
Every 3 years the reset button is pressed.
Youth, training, infrastructure and our FFP fine are allowable costs and do not contribute to this amount.
So we are losing a Mill a month x 12 x 3 = £36mill
On top of that add transfers
SJ £625k
Field £250k
Dozzell £1.25Mill
Dykes £1.25Mill
Bonne £1.25Mill
Jordi £400k
Willock £450k
Dickie £1.5Mill
Dunne £450k
Loan fees say £250k
Say about £8.5mill with agent fees thrown in.
So that’s £44.5Mill
Deduct transfers
Eze £18Mill
Jordi £450k (inc a loan fee at first)
Others ….. buttons and fluff.
Balance = £26.05Mill or £8.68Mill a year
Now I’ve NEVER been a fan of us throwing money around and told the Bungle Brothers that their faces. However I just don’t see how we are so perilously close to the FFP limit wire if the above is anywhere near right???
More than happy to be shown I’m way off but I’ve based the above on the factual grounds that are the internet, this website and noises from the club CEO and DoF.
Losing the amount of money we do is a disgrace but I can’t see how this rhetoric that the owners would spend a bit more but their hands are tied actually adds up.
Relaxes back into armchair…….
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| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 16:11 - Aug 23 with 2061 views | NewBee |
"EFL rules appear to make no provision for inflation - I don't think that much-quoted 3-year £39M figure has changed since 2016"
You're talking almost like £39m is a target, not a maximum.
And while I also understand the argument that if owners have the wealth, they should be entitled to spend it, as against that, it encourages the likes of Newcastle's new owners at one extreme, while it risks seeing the likes of Derby County at the other.
Further, like parachute payments, this £39m "allowance" further distorts competition between the "haves", who can throw money at their club, and the "have nots" who obviously cannot.
There is no easy answer to this conundrum. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 16:39 - Aug 23 with 1961 views | terryb |
And many an apprentice finds a new employer after finishing his training. As do accountants after qualifying, even though their employers paid for their education. If AB Electrics only pay him £x and CD Electrics offer him £x plus 10%, who his he going to work for?
In the case of Willock, we signed him as a member of the first team & not a part of our development squad. If he hadn't been sucessful with us, would the fan base be asking the club to offer him a further contract? Or would we expect him to be released? | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 16:54 - Aug 23 with 1914 views | NewBee |
Re Brentford, yes, they do assign a value to each player, but that value may move up over time eg if he's playing well, or the club is in a good financial position, therefore less pressure to sell etc.
Alternatively it can also go down eg if he doesn't develop as hoped, or suffers injuries etc
Clearly you hope for the first scenario, while trying do avoid the second.
But either way, what you cannot do is find yourself with players on your books whose contracts have less than, say, two years to run.
Meaning that if he won't renew, then you sell him for the best you can get. I seem to recall a few seasons back, come Xmas, the club calculated that they weren't going to get promoted, so they sold a couple of players in January for "best offer accepted", because they only had 18 - 24 months left on their contract.
Had they waited until the summer, at best they'd have had to sell for a low fee, since buying clubs knew they could wait another bit.
Or at worst the players would just have seen out the last 12 - 18 months of their contract and left on a free. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 17:03 - Aug 23 with 1884 views | EastR |
if the owners issue new share capital the maximum still remains at £39m. If they don't, it is £5m pa £15 in total | |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 17:06 - Aug 23 with 1869 views | francisbowles |
Who bought them? Did it have anything to do with Birmingham and someone we, unfortunately, know only too well? | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 17:12 - Aug 23 with 1847 views | sparkey |
Talking of FFP... what on earth is the point in trying when some clubs can literally just money launder
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 17:24 - Aug 23 with 1785 views | Rangersw12 |
It's blatent cheating | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 17:26 - Aug 23 with 1775 views | Northernr |
I mean that's just demoralising isn't it? I guess the match preview writes itself though.
I do wonder whether we could use Ruben's LA club a bit more creatively. I presume the answer to this is the draft/marquee player system in use in the MLS but hypothetically if they're putting in £1.8m a month to cover losses anyway what's to stop them doing that in the form of £6m (four month's worth) for Nico? He gets to go and live somewhere hot and nice which he's clearly dying to do, we get some FFP headroom to play with, chairman is still out the same amount he would have been anyway except it's actually taking us away from the FFP limit rather than towards it? | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 17:26 - Aug 23 with 1774 views | elnombre |
Absolutely it is cap, and a cap we've spent most of the last eight years right up against, as indeed have quite a few clubs, even those trying to do things properly (as I think we are. Now,).
Not a target as such then - I literally said it would involve spending money that doesn't belong to us, which I assumed most folk would interpret as a bad thing? Apologies if I was not clear. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 17:42 - Aug 23 with 1710 views | PunteR |
"And many an apprentice finds a new employer after finishing his training"
They do. Luckily mine has stuck it out, although it helps that im his dad..lol
We signed Willock as a young , inexperienced player that couldn't get first team football im led to believe. He definitely wasn't the finished article. He's come on leaps and bounds under our coaching and management.
Of course , if he wasn't successful he wouldn't be getting a further improved contract. That applies in every job.
I understand why people /players chase more money but id like to see a bit more principled decision making. Integrity* . And that applies to both sides of the coin. The club as well.
Maybe im being too naïve, but if Willock does run his contract down that would leave a pretty sour taste in a few mouths around the club im sure.
* Edit as i couldnt think of the word earlier.. [Post edited 23 Aug 2022 18:24]
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| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 17:47 - Aug 23 with 1698 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
Rules might be different between UK/Europe and UK/US?
Apart from that it's fcking desperate. Steer clear surely?
Also we'd be the first club to get punished for it no doubt. World record fine etc. | |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 17:58 - Aug 23 with 1660 views | NewBee |
You're doubtless thinking Good Ol Arry signing Jota, Colin and Dean for Brum, but that was in August 2017.
I was more thinking of previous January sales like eg Scott Hogan to Villa.
As it happens, Colin has been a real stalwart for Brum, Dean was ok for 2 or 3 years (POTY one season), while Jota had enormous talent for £6m, with Brum basically getting their money back via a player-swap with Villa for Gary Gardiner.
By no means the worst signings 'Arry ever made, while Bees will have been happy enough with the sales, since we were well able to upgrade subsequently. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 18:05 - Aug 23 with 1649 views | PunteR |
There's a reason why companies don't like taking on apprentices. But thats probably for a different thread.
I do hear what you're saying though. | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 18:27 - Aug 23 with 1592 views | daveB |
Or Niko could identify as a woman and we sell him to the womens team for £16 million
It's an absolute farce that Watford will get away with this, Part of me thinks f uck it just take the points deduction in 2 years if we don't go up. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 18:37 - Aug 23 with 1585 views | davman |
Yep, so we HAVE to get what we can for him this window, January or in the summer. He won't sign any extension, why on earth would he? | |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 18:48 - Aug 23 with 1568 views | PunteR |
I was thinking this today actually. Not the Niko identifying as a woman bit but the f uck it just take the points deduction in 2 years if we don't go up bit.
We do have multi billionares running the club afterall. Its not a bigger gamble for us than other clubs.
This playing the long game thing and obeying the "rules" is getting a bit tedious now.
Get Beale a f**king striker..!
Im gonna go back on Twitter..lol | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 20:25 - Aug 23 with 1455 views | Hunterhoop |
Then we build the statue.
And the weekly thread in his honour on here. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 21:03 - Aug 23 with 1381 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
I think we should stick to the current plan myself. Our day will come.
Which striker would you buy Beale out of interest? If you had £5m to spend? | |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 21:07 - Aug 23 with 1366 views | daveB |
It has got to the point where you think whats the worse they can do. Forest have avoided these punishments for years, it took them a good 4/5 years to do anything about Derby. I don't want us to go back to putting the clubs future on the line by over spending but feels like we're one of the only clubs actually playing along here | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 21:18 - Aug 23 with 1335 views | PunteR |
Tbh with you mate, ive no idea off the top of my head.
I just know the current team is lacking good quality players in most positions. As has been the case for a few years now. | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 21:28 - Aug 23 with 1302 views | PunteR |
We are the only club to pay a record £40 million fine which has probably made them a bit more twitchy.
However, Is it even cost effective by treading water mid table in the championship losing £39 million every 3 years for the next 10-20 and so on years ?? | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 21:42 - Aug 23 with 1267 views | Stanisgod |
Exactly, while watching the Forests and the Watfords take the royal P year after year and in Watfords case get a never ending top up of Premier league riches Joke. | |
| It's being so happy that keeps me going. |
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| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 22:30 - Aug 23 with 1174 views | stanistheman |
I don't think it is cost effective for them to carry on as they are waiting for the manager/head coach to win promotion with the current model whilst clubs like Watford and Forest find a way around the rules with their loaning and selling players for undisclosed fees to their owners' other clubs. This and with the parachute payments (although we failed to use ours to good effect) means there are also a number of yoyo clubs ahead of us in the promotion places every season.
We need another striker (even if Roberts & Co gel and share the goals between them) because we know that injuries, suspensions & loss of form will eventually take its toll again on our small squad.
We can take a gamble on buying 1 in this window and try and balance the books in January (if not in the promotion picture) or at worse sell players next summer. | | | |
| FFP Headroom / P&S BS on 06:58 - Aug 24 with 1040 views | Northernr |
Well I think the idea is within these three year cycles you have a couple of frugal ones, and a big player sale, which enables you to 'go for it' a little bit in one of them. Their aim is definitely to get us to the Prem, otherwise like you say they're just tipping money into a team nobody watches in a league nobody watches. Why would you?
Unfortunately, last season was us 'going for it' and it blew up. A big part of my downbeat tone this year is the knowledge that that was a great chance for us, a chance that won't come along again without some Eze-style money, and though there were injuries that were a big part of it, a lot of the problems were grown men and egos falling out with each other and protecting their own positions behind the scenes. Incredibly selfish. Now we're, and Beale, stuck here in another rebuild on no money. | | | |
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