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Should a universal basic income be introduced? on 20:29 - Sep 5 by since58
You could always donate some of your pension from the council.
It’s a matter of if not when. Jobs will be gone soon to either: self drive cars and lorries that will be better and more reliable than people and customer service phone jobs, AI will replace that soon IVR systems are already doing some of that. Machines will do surgeries, warehouse, production jobs etc there won’t be much left....
This is the One, I've waited for
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Should a universal basic income be introduced? on 20:42 - Sep 5 with 2593 views
Should a universal basic income be introduced? on 20:44 - Sep 5 by rochdaleriddler
I’ll just pick up a copy of the Daily mail, I’m sure they will all be in there
How about benefits being scaled on the number of years national insurance contributions, if you have not paid 2 years then you get a parcel with enough food to sustain yourself but no money.
Obviously certain bills would need to be paid directly by the government but would get rid of a lot of our never worked as can’t be arsed types!
Every Team Needs A John Ryan - The Winger Who's a Ringer!!!!!
It's interesting that many of the much vaunted Scandinavian models of welfare incorporate tiers which are linked to previous payment in and are time limited. The long term unemployed are forced to take up training/workfare placements or else they are sanctioned.
Someone who has paid in for years and found themselves in hard times can access what some would view as fairly generous benefits for a year, which will hopefully give them time to find a suitable job. Those who are able to work who have not paid in get much lower levels of benefits, with conditions. This seems fair to me. Many people criticise the benefits cap but it seems wrong that people who are able to work can get more in benefits than an equivalent working family can.
Culturally there is a marked difference in attitudes, whereby a life on benefits it not seen as being as desirable as to the hundreds of thousands of families of ' never worked' in this country.
Regarding universal basic income. There was a recent trial undertaken in Finland. There are lots of articles about it online. I suppose as with anything it depends what you expect out of it. So back to the original poster, or anyone else what would you expect the result of a universal basic income being introduced, at what level would you have it and how would it be funded?
It is one of those policies that seems a good idea, I mean who wouldn't want a bit of extra money, but the devil is in the detail.
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Should a universal basic income be introduced? on 23:56 - Sep 5 with 2389 views
Should a universal basic income be introduced? on 21:15 - Sep 5 by Thacks_Rabbits
How about benefits being scaled on the number of years national insurance contributions, if you have not paid 2 years then you get a parcel with enough food to sustain yourself but no money.
Obviously certain bills would need to be paid directly by the government but would get rid of a lot of our never worked as can’t be arsed types!
That will cut down the crime.
This is not the time for bickering.
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Should a universal basic income be introduced? on 07:22 - Sep 6 with 2281 views
Should a universal basic income be introduced? on 21:15 - Sep 5 by Thacks_Rabbits
How about benefits being scaled on the number of years national insurance contributions, if you have not paid 2 years then you get a parcel with enough food to sustain yourself but no money.
Obviously certain bills would need to be paid directly by the government but would get rid of a lot of our never worked as can’t be arsed types!
So you would treat people as second rate citizens and create a bottomless pit of poverty where people will have to beg while criminals live a decent life in prison....
My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds
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Should a universal basic income be introduced? on 09:04 - Sep 6 with 2199 views
Should a universal basic income be introduced? on 08:17 - Sep 6 by electricblue
So you would treat people as second rate citizens and create a bottomless pit of poverty where people will have to beg while criminals live a decent life in prison....
Was this supposed to be about 'footballers' James?!!!!
Realise you might be talking about what someone above mentioned in Finland where everyone received a set amount regardless of employment or not etc.
Communism attempted it except for not allowing the ceiling to be surpassed; except my the leaders!
My grandad, who died long before I was born used to say that if you gave a bunch of people the same amount - let's say £1,000 - then in (whatever time)? they'd all come back with varying amounts of...
Some would have nowt or owing others, some would have in some way made more money and the rest would have eaten away at that resource.
That's peoples choice BUT back to what you mention - there's apparently enough wealth in the world - summats like the top 1% - that would be able to continually sustain EVERYONE in the world IF that decision was taken. Food for thought in some terribly deprived areas of the world?
AI is mentioned above and that could in theory be a major problem - are we about to or already able to create gods that control us and take over?
[Post edited 6 Sep 2019 9:17]
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Should a universal basic income be introduced? on 10:23 - Sep 6 with 2146 views
It's a tricky one, because automation is undoubtably coming for lower paid less technical skilled jobs which is a significant part of the population, to use the American haulage industry (only cos i don't know specific figures for here) as an example they reckon driverless long haul lorries will lead to a loss of 4 million jobs over there. Automation is likely to hit haulage, retails and food the hardest (E.g. Amazon is already killing the high street and there warehouses are already being automated. McDonald's are replacing till and till operators with touchscreens.)
Combine with lack of replacement jobs and the fact that retraining from low skilled to high skilled job historically has quite a low success rate and there is a probable future with an increase of people without jobs baring some unpredicted change in the jobs market that fixes the shortfall in jobs.
All of that points to some need to provide some alternative form of income/basic needs, but the issue I see with universal basic income (apart from whether the funding maths works) is that the capitalist market will just adjust the cost of goods to cover the increase in money in the market place and that could lead to the money being given being worth far less than it was originally intended leading to it not doing the job it was required to do.
I know this doesn't really answer the question, but i'm not here to be smart enough to actually provide answers.
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Should a universal basic income be introduced? on 11:05 - Sep 6 with 2108 views
Should a universal basic income be introduced? on 10:23 - Sep 6 by heywooddale
It's a tricky one, because automation is undoubtably coming for lower paid less technical skilled jobs which is a significant part of the population, to use the American haulage industry (only cos i don't know specific figures for here) as an example they reckon driverless long haul lorries will lead to a loss of 4 million jobs over there. Automation is likely to hit haulage, retails and food the hardest (E.g. Amazon is already killing the high street and there warehouses are already being automated. McDonald's are replacing till and till operators with touchscreens.)
Combine with lack of replacement jobs and the fact that retraining from low skilled to high skilled job historically has quite a low success rate and there is a probable future with an increase of people without jobs baring some unpredicted change in the jobs market that fixes the shortfall in jobs.
All of that points to some need to provide some alternative form of income/basic needs, but the issue I see with universal basic income (apart from whether the funding maths works) is that the capitalist market will just adjust the cost of goods to cover the increase in money in the market place and that could lead to the money being given being worth far less than it was originally intended leading to it not doing the job it was required to do.
I know this doesn't really answer the question, but i'm not here to be smart enough to actually provide answers.
The country employed 1 million typists and secretaries in the 1980s. We don't need most of them today but none are unemployed. History tells us that we adapt. Don't listen to the ludites.
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Should a universal basic income be introduced? on 13:43 - Sep 6 with 2044 views
Should a universal basic income be introduced? on 11:05 - Sep 6 by Dalenet
The country employed 1 million typists and secretaries in the 1980s. We don't need most of them today but none are unemployed. History tells us that we adapt. Don't listen to the ludites.
We replaced them with call centre staff. The problem arises when 1000s of people are replaced by a box of software with a couple of people to make sure its plugged in.Electric vehicles are being built with sealed engines needing no sevice and good for 2 million miles. Moving parts will fall from thousands to dozens which will be 3d printed. The whole nature of vehicle usage will change with people belonging to car clubs and paying on a per mile basis for a car on demand. The upside of this is that we will all be able to drink as much as we want and be taken home automatically!
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Should a universal basic income be introduced? on 14:33 - Sep 6 with 2010 views
Should a universal basic income be introduced? on 13:43 - Sep 6 by 49thseason
We replaced them with call centre staff. The problem arises when 1000s of people are replaced by a box of software with a couple of people to make sure its plugged in.Electric vehicles are being built with sealed engines needing no sevice and good for 2 million miles. Moving parts will fall from thousands to dozens which will be 3d printed. The whole nature of vehicle usage will change with people belonging to car clubs and paying on a per mile basis for a car on demand. The upside of this is that we will all be able to drink as much as we want and be taken home automatically!
What will then happen to the car,van,truck etc insurance game, as surely no "owner" can be at fault for a crash when theyre not even in the vehicle and certainly not controlling it. As seen already with any vehicle using Autonomous Emergency Braking it can't predict anything ahead and when someone cuts you up it simply slams on there is no,the same applies when a car joins the motorway from a slip road too close.
Without doubt the weak link to any vehicle is the human Sat behind the wheel due to our poor reaction times, tiredness, moods,anger,drink influences etc etc but I'm still not sure full control should simply be handed over to a computer at any point.
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Should a universal basic income be introduced? on 14:35 - Sep 6 with 2005 views
Should a universal basic income be introduced? on 13:43 - Sep 6 by 49thseason
We replaced them with call centre staff. The problem arises when 1000s of people are replaced by a box of software with a couple of people to make sure its plugged in.Electric vehicles are being built with sealed engines needing no sevice and good for 2 million miles. Moving parts will fall from thousands to dozens which will be 3d printed. The whole nature of vehicle usage will change with people belonging to car clubs and paying on a per mile basis for a car on demand. The upside of this is that we will all be able to drink as much as we want and be taken home automatically!
It's certainly a problem, but describing it as "a box of software with a couple of people to make sure its plugged in" is to misunderstand its nature
The possibilities the "box of software" will unleash will lead to employment opportunities not even envisaged yet, just as every other technological advance has done. The nature of paid work itself is likely to change - already is changing - with people able to adopt portfolio careers, with lifelong learning and more balanced lifestyles. The key to this is to ensure we have an educated workforce capable of adapting to, and further advancing such opportunities
If that leaves a section of the population unable to take up new forms of employment, the idea of a universal basic income is something that deserves serious consideration. How that can be funded is also something we'll have to ensure, along with health and social care. There's only one proven way of generating such wealth, and people attack it at their peril
Should a universal basic income be introduced? on 11:05 - Sep 6 by Dalenet
The country employed 1 million typists and secretaries in the 1980s. We don't need most of them today but none are unemployed. History tells us that we adapt. Don't listen to the ludites.
I think technological advances are brilliant, and yes we will adapt. Capitalism needs consumers to sustain it, however robots taking over was sold as a means of releasing people from humdrum employment to enjoy leisure, the arts etc. With the concentration of capital in the hands of the few, it is not too difficult to envisage capitalism eating itself
Should a universal basic income be introduced? on 14:58 - Sep 6 by rochdaleriddler
I think technological advances are brilliant, and yes we will adapt. Capitalism needs consumers to sustain it, however robots taking over was sold as a means of releasing people from humdrum employment to enjoy leisure, the arts etc. With the concentration of capital in the hands of the few, it is not too difficult to envisage capitalism eating itself
I agree with you, there is a real danger of that happening, and we need to be creative as a society (not just ours, but worldwide) to find ways of ensuring that doesn't happen
But that's a very long way from abandoning the basic principles that even so-called "socialist" economies such as China are utilising to bring greater economic benefits to its population. I remain optimistic we'll continue to find ways and means of raising living standards
It's been thought for a while, incidentally, that the UK administrative systems, rooted as they were in the old discredited ways of empire, needed a damn good shake up. That's why i view current proceedings in a positive manner, with whatever emerges as a necessary corrective and refreshment of our way of doing business and engaging with the wider world. I know it doesn't look like that at the minute, but simply continuing with the same old same old wasn't a sustainable option. Evolution, not revolution
Should a universal basic income be introduced? on 23:27 - Mar 10 by James1980
Thought it might be worth discussing again taking into consideration the whole self isolation situation.
This was a good thread James, but now isn't the time to review
That will come in the aftermath, when the epidemic has run it's course and we know the full scale of it; and the possibilities of further new pathogens with similar or even more deadly potential
It's like HG Wells' 'War of the Worlds'. It was the bacteria wot dunnit
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