| Strikers and KH 09:12 - Nov 20 with 14292 views | geraldo |
Does our manager really understand about strikers? What I mean is instinctive players who are goal poachers. We haven't had one since Scot Hogan and yet a team like Oldham who until Saturday I would have rated below us, fielded two who both feature in the top strikers in Lg 1 - one of them who scores a goal per game.
We had Redshaw ( for some reason) who scored 4 on Saturday but let him go after scoring a hat trick in a friendly. Steve Davies is our best striker and he got 10 minutes game time on Saturday - if fit he should start every game.
We picked up our biggest ever windfall this season from the Hogan sell on but have spent sweet fa - maybe the Board don't trust KH's judgement? |  | | |  |
| Strikers and KH on 13:49 - Nov 21 with 2625 views | D_Alien |
| Strikers and KH on 13:34 - Nov 21 by geraldo |
Nobody seems to have picked up the main point of my post which is , do we trust KH's judgement when it comes to strikers - his track record is not a good one.
He seems loath to buy proven strikers ( eg Craig Davies) and instead seems to want to "convert" players into that role ( eg Hendo and Done) or buy from lower leagues ( Shaw and Williams 11) which fails more often than it works. |
I'll attempt to answer your question
Edit: i'll not bother, since you haven't the courtesy to answer questions posed by others
[Post edited 21 Nov 2017 19:45]
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| Strikers and KH on 13:59 - Nov 21 with 2607 views | dingdangblue |
| Strikers and KH on 13:34 - Nov 21 by geraldo |
Nobody seems to have picked up the main point of my post which is , do we trust KH's judgement when it comes to strikers - his track record is not a good one.
He seems loath to buy proven strikers ( eg Craig Davies) and instead seems to want to "convert" players into that role ( eg Hendo and Done) or buy from lower leagues ( Shaw and Williams 11) which fails more often than it works. |
'buy proven strikers'?
How much do you think that will cost? Then you have wages for a proven striker. As we know from down the road you are looking at 5-6k per week. Then you need to tie them down on a longer contract so they can't leave for free after 2 seasons. Before you know it you are bottom of league 1 with shit crowds, no manager and a 10 million debt. Yes please! |  |
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| Strikers and KH on 14:09 - Nov 21 with 2587 views | Shun |
With regards to Redshaw, I can't understand the distaste to him over his actions this summer. He was training with us, presumably hoping to get a deal. Yet he then signed for Salford, and very shortly after we signed Done. IMO the most logical explanation is that Hill told him we wouldn't be offering him a deal, safe in the knowledge that Done was on his way here. Redshaw was only on trial here as a backup in case Done didn't sign. If that's the case then we used him more than he used us. |  | | |
| Strikers and KH on 15:28 - Nov 21 with 2505 views | TVOS1907 |
| Strikers and KH on 13:34 - Nov 21 by geraldo |
Nobody seems to have picked up the main point of my post which is , do we trust KH's judgement when it comes to strikers - his track record is not a good one.
He seems loath to buy proven strikers ( eg Craig Davies) and instead seems to want to "convert" players into that role ( eg Hendo and Done) or buy from lower leagues ( Shaw and Williams 11) which fails more often than it works. |
Do you know where these proven strikers are who nobody else wants, probably because they aren't scoring any goals? |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Strikers and KH on 15:29 - Nov 21 with 2508 views | geraldo |
| Strikers and KH on 13:59 - Nov 21 by dingdangblue |
'buy proven strikers'?
How much do you think that will cost? Then you have wages for a proven striker. As we know from down the road you are looking at 5-6k per week. Then you need to tie them down on a longer contract so they can't leave for free after 2 seasons. Before you know it you are bottom of league 1 with shit crowds, no manager and a 10 million debt. Yes please! |
We are getting £700k per year for 3 years from Hogan sell-on plus ca £400k for JA.
Paying a proven striker £5k per week would barely make a dent in our cash in the bank, plus a regular goal scorer would bring fans through the gate and put points on the board.
I understand that KH is on a percentage of NET transfer income which doesn't encourage him to spend only sell!!
We need to remember the old adage " speculate to accumulate" | | | |
| Strikers and KH on 16:10 - Nov 21 with 2451 views | TVOS1907 |
| Strikers and KH on 15:29 - Nov 21 by geraldo |
We are getting £700k per year for 3 years from Hogan sell-on plus ca £400k for JA.
Paying a proven striker £5k per week would barely make a dent in our cash in the bank, plus a regular goal scorer would bring fans through the gate and put points on the board.
I understand that KH is on a percentage of NET transfer income which doesn't encourage him to spend only sell!!
We need to remember the old adage " speculate to accumulate" |
I'll ask again, where are these proven/regular goalscorers that nobody else wants?
Where are these players who can guarantee goals?
If you think we're going to pay any player £5K per week, you're living in cloud cuckoo land.
The Hogan money will keep the club going for many years, especially in the face of cheaper season tickets and crowds that haven't really improved.
Your comment about Hill is ridiculous. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Strikers and KH on 16:42 - Nov 21 with 2412 views | Molly |
| Strikers and KH on 15:29 - Nov 21 by geraldo |
We are getting £700k per year for 3 years from Hogan sell-on plus ca £400k for JA.
Paying a proven striker £5k per week would barely make a dent in our cash in the bank, plus a regular goal scorer would bring fans through the gate and put points on the board.
I understand that KH is on a percentage of NET transfer income which doesn't encourage him to spend only sell!!
We need to remember the old adage " speculate to accumulate" |
You understand that KH is on a percentage of NET transfer income? That is a very bold statement to make, particularly in view of the fact that you present the rest of that sentence (about selling and buying) as though it was undeniably true.
A very simple question, which I suspect you will not answer----How do you know for certain that KH is on a percentage of NET transfer income? If you can answer then fair play to you , if you can't I would respectfully suggest that you refrain from such tittle tattle. | | | |
| Strikers and KH on 17:06 - Nov 21 with 2385 views | DaleFan7 |
It would be nice to get a Doyle on loan like Oldham have. He'd single handedly keep most teams in this division.
I hope Slew gets a chance, he's looked sharp in his short cameos and with how little goals we're scoring he deserves a chance. I agree it comes down the midfield too though, they just don't seem to be creating the chances they did, a lot of that comes down to tactics because for whatever reason we seem to be playing a lot of long ball and bypassing them this season. | | | |
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| Strikers and KH on 17:54 - Nov 21 with 2343 views | dingdangblue |
| Strikers and KH on 15:29 - Nov 21 by geraldo |
We are getting £700k per year for 3 years from Hogan sell-on plus ca £400k for JA.
Paying a proven striker £5k per week would barely make a dent in our cash in the bank, plus a regular goal scorer would bring fans through the gate and put points on the board.
I understand that KH is on a percentage of NET transfer income which doesn't encourage him to spend only sell!!
We need to remember the old adage " speculate to accumulate" |
Speculate to accumulate?
Like our friends down the road?
10 million in debt? [Post edited 21 Nov 2017 17:56]
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| Strikers and KH on 18:22 - Nov 21 with 2328 views | 442Dale |
I want to know where it's been reported that we are getting the figures mentioned for Scott Hogan? Has this information been made public to shareholders? |  |
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| Strikers and KH on 18:30 - Nov 21 with 2319 views | geraldo |
| Strikers and KH on 18:22 - Nov 21 by 442Dale |
I want to know where it's been reported that we are getting the figures mentioned for Scott Hogan? Has this information been made public to shareholders? |
The figure was £2.1m spread over 3 years - as far as I am aware it is in the public domain | | | |
| Strikers and KH on 18:35 - Nov 21 with 2314 views | Molly |
Hey Geraldo!! Are you going to answer my question? | | | |
| Strikers and KH on 18:48 - Nov 21 with 2299 views | 442Dale |
| Strikers and KH on 18:30 - Nov 21 by geraldo |
The figure was £2.1m spread over 3 years - as far as I am aware it is in the public domain |
Where?
Similarly the Allen fee. Where's that? This year's accounts haven't been released yet.
In fact the Allen deal will appear in the accounts for next year (ending May 18). Hogan went in the year ending May 2017 so won't be in the accounts until next year. So where is this info in the public domain? [Post edited 21 Nov 2017 18:56]
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| Strikers and KH on 19:35 - Nov 21 with 2243 views | TVOS1907 |
| Strikers and KH on 18:35 - Nov 21 by Molly |
Hey Geraldo!! Are you going to answer my question? |
Or mine. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Strikers and KH on 21:13 - Nov 21 with 2128 views | nordenblue |
| Strikers and KH on 18:48 - Nov 21 by 442Dale |
Where?
Similarly the Allen fee. Where's that? This year's accounts haven't been released yet.
In fact the Allen deal will appear in the accounts for next year (ending May 18). Hogan went in the year ending May 2017 so won't be in the accounts until next year. So where is this info in the public domain? [Post edited 21 Nov 2017 18:56]
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I'm sure the club put a valuation on Allen around the 400k region and if met he could speak to other clubs,im sure i read somewhere after the transfer the actual figure was published | | | |
| Strikers and KH on 21:50 - Nov 21 with 2076 views | 442Dale |
| Strikers and KH on 21:13 - Nov 21 by nordenblue |
I'm sure the club put a valuation on Allen around the 400k region and if met he could speak to other clubs,im sure i read somewhere after the transfer the actual figure was published |
The stories have done the rounds amongst fans, these things seem to have a habit of getting out, but I've yet to see confirmation of any figures. Especially those Hogan ones. | |
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| Strikers and KH on 08:38 - Nov 22 with 1991 views | Thacks_Rabbits |
Aside from finding a quality striker that other clubs are happy to sell, the other major issues we would have are as discussed, wages, initial cost and also our record when paying large fees for player (well large for us).
We have only paid big money for 1 proven goal scorer as far as I recall. 80k for Andy flounders which did not end well for various reasons despite a good first season. Connor had a great loan spell but was not what I would call proven and despite being a great player, that 150k was in effect ended by injuries. Clive platt was again not proven, did a good job for 100k but was never prolific and finally COG again was far from a proven goal scorer when he arrived for 60k ish but went on to be very good.
If you then look at our major strikers in last 20 years or so, sorry if I miss a few, but Steve Whitehall- 20k Holt 10k lambert 20k hogan free Henderson free done free 10k for the lad at Brighton whose name escapes me for the moment, probably a few I have missed, but the point I am making is our main goalscorers have come on the cheap or free.
I don’t think throwing 250k and 5 grand a week on a 2 year contract will ever happen here, if it does it would only be for someone like Murray (just remembered see above) who hill trusts totally (won’t happen due to age) or Craig Dawson (should he ever want to come back) we won’t ever sign anyone like Beckford although I would like to think we at least spoke to Rickie lambert recently.
We rely on scouting and broken toys and I cannot ever see that changing, even if we ever make the championship! |  |
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| Strikers and KH on 08:40 - Nov 22 with 1987 views | DaleiLama |
| Strikers and KH on 16:10 - Nov 21 by TVOS1907 |
I'll ask again, where are these proven/regular goalscorers that nobody else wants?
Where are these players who can guarantee goals?
If you think we're going to pay any player £5K per week, you're living in cloud cuckoo land.
The Hogan money will keep the club going for many years, especially in the face of cheaper season tickets and crowds that haven't really improved.
Your comment about Hill is ridiculous. |
They're growing on striker trees everywhere?!?
Bury beat us to the top price low-hanging fruit though. |  |
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| Strikers and KH on 11:30 - Nov 22 with 1938 views | TVOS1907 |
| Strikers and KH on 08:40 - Nov 22 by DaleiLama |
They're growing on striker trees everywhere?!?
Bury beat us to the top price low-hanging fruit though. |
Aye, but geraldo doesn't seem to be aware of this... | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Strikers and KH on 11:38 - Nov 22 with 1926 views | ParkinsGimp |
| Strikers and KH on 20:49 - Nov 20 by dingdangblue |
Why do you feel the constant need to be abusive towards our own players?
We play Charlton away tomorrow night, I'm sure you can remember who made the only goal and who scored it when we won last season. |
Aw we lost last night, nevermind, lets all support a DogT""d as long as it has a Dale shirt on. Come on pal , lets get real with this. Some of these signings are shocking and even laughable. If I said to you we are getting a non league striker who has played around 350 games and scored 36 goals , thats around 14 seasons at 25 games a season average and 2.5 goals per season..what would you really say? His contribution to a game is laughable , I cant believe the comments I hear when Andrew jumps for a ball and he actually wins it a, but then it goes back to the opposition.
We are in dire straits here and need something realistic yet magical to get us out of it. | | | |
| Strikers and KH on 12:11 - Nov 22 with 1902 views | TVOS1907 |
| Strikers and KH on 11:38 - Nov 22 by ParkinsGimp |
Aw we lost last night, nevermind, lets all support a DogT""d as long as it has a Dale shirt on. Come on pal , lets get real with this. Some of these signings are shocking and even laughable. If I said to you we are getting a non league striker who has played around 350 games and scored 36 goals , thats around 14 seasons at 25 games a season average and 2.5 goals per season..what would you really say? His contribution to a game is laughable , I cant believe the comments I hear when Andrew jumps for a ball and he actually wins it a, but then it goes back to the opposition.
We are in dire straits here and need something realistic yet magical to get us out of it. |
We were in dire straits when we had to apply for re-election or came within a 2-1 win over Stockport of going out of the league. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Strikers and KH on 14:03 - Nov 22 with 1862 views | finberty |
| Strikers and KH on 12:11 - Nov 22 by TVOS1907 |
We were in dire straits when we had to apply for re-election or came within a 2-1 win over Stockport of going out of the league. |
Aye. I'm not sure why Calvin alone is copping this, and the personal slur on him is vile and unjust. Whatever limitations may exist, I don't recall him shirking or idling. Compare this to the period that TVOS refers to, when a threadbare squad, assembled with who knows what, contained an element that displayed such disinterest, even while wearing the shirt and claiming a wage. I can even recall the shirt numbers. |  | | |
| Strikers and KH on 14:29 - Nov 22 with 1840 views | TVOS1907 |
| Strikers and KH on 14:03 - Nov 22 by finberty |
Aye. I'm not sure why Calvin alone is copping this, and the personal slur on him is vile and unjust. Whatever limitations may exist, I don't recall him shirking or idling. Compare this to the period that TVOS refers to, when a threadbare squad, assembled with who knows what, contained an element that displayed such disinterest, even while wearing the shirt and claiming a wage. I can even recall the shirt numbers. |
442 is your man for that.
Regarding everything else you say, the likes of PG seem to have forgotten everything that went before. He posts as though we should somehow be signing ready-made League One players - or even those of Championship standard - thereby showing complete disregard for what we as a club have stood for under Hill's management.
No doubt if we turn our form around, he won't be seen. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Strikers and KH on 15:25 - Nov 22 with 1773 views | geraldo |
| Strikers and KH on 08:38 - Nov 22 by Thacks_Rabbits |
Aside from finding a quality striker that other clubs are happy to sell, the other major issues we would have are as discussed, wages, initial cost and also our record when paying large fees for player (well large for us).
We have only paid big money for 1 proven goal scorer as far as I recall. 80k for Andy flounders which did not end well for various reasons despite a good first season. Connor had a great loan spell but was not what I would call proven and despite being a great player, that 150k was in effect ended by injuries. Clive platt was again not proven, did a good job for 100k but was never prolific and finally COG again was far from a proven goal scorer when he arrived for 60k ish but went on to be very good.
If you then look at our major strikers in last 20 years or so, sorry if I miss a few, but Steve Whitehall- 20k Holt 10k lambert 20k hogan free Henderson free done free 10k for the lad at Brighton whose name escapes me for the moment, probably a few I have missed, but the point I am making is our main goalscorers have come on the cheap or free.
I don’t think throwing 250k and 5 grand a week on a 2 year contract will ever happen here, if it does it would only be for someone like Murray (just remembered see above) who hill trusts totally (won’t happen due to age) or Craig Dawson (should he ever want to come back) we won’t ever sign anyone like Beckford although I would like to think we at least spoke to Rickie lambert recently.
We rely on scouting and broken toys and I cannot ever see that changing, even if we ever make the championship! |
Just a point - most of the low cost strikers were not recruited by KH - they pre date him.
The fees we paid years ago for the likes of Flounders et al would now be in the region of £1m today. Dale had very little money when they bought the strikers you refer to but at least the Board had bxxls!! | | | |
| Strikers and KH on 15:30 - Nov 22 with 1768 views | dingdangblue |
| Strikers and KH on 11:38 - Nov 22 by ParkinsGimp |
Aw we lost last night, nevermind, lets all support a DogT""d as long as it has a Dale shirt on. Come on pal , lets get real with this. Some of these signings are shocking and even laughable. If I said to you we are getting a non league striker who has played around 350 games and scored 36 goals , thats around 14 seasons at 25 games a season average and 2.5 goals per season..what would you really say? His contribution to a game is laughable , I cant believe the comments I hear when Andrew jumps for a ball and he actually wins it a, but then it goes back to the opposition.
We are in dire straits here and need something realistic yet magical to get us out of it. |
Andrew set up 2 of our best chances last night. The header to Done when he hit the post and the header for Inman's volley at the end. Bunney also set up our goal. | |
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