| Devolution Debate on 18:58 - Dec 15 with 1006 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Devolution Debate on 16:25 - Dec 15 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Weighted and excluding don’t knows…. They might as well just go the whole hog and exclude no’s too. |
Proper polling company, you just don't like the results. |  |
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| Devolution Debate on 19:02 - Dec 15 with 1000 views | Ohyeah |
Redfield & Wilton Strategies a totally discredited polling organisation...
These were the ones who did a poll for Wales online saying more people supported 20 mph...
Jac 0 the north has a piece on this mob.... |  | | |
| Devolution Debate on 19:07 - Dec 15 with 994 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Devolution Debate on 17:35 - Dec 15 by Wingstandwood |
It won’t be 58% of 16 -24 years old if ever there ever was a campaign for full independence?
Why? Because leading WELSH members of The Royal College Of Surgeons, RCN, The Royal College of General Practitioners, The British Institute Of Radiology and BMA Cymru Wales etc will campaign against the catastrophic loss of ENGLISH NHS services that Wales depends on and cannot ever do without.
You know? High ranking Welsh proffesionals outside of immature stuudent activist politics and debate who happen to know how the real world happens to work.
Meanwhile in YesCymru cloud-cuckoo-land Welsh-activist tw*ts who cannot tell the difference between the words ECG and ETC will be unable to explain how Wales goes it alone when it is so reliant on English NHS services.
Tell me how many leading lights within Welsh NHS are pushing for full independance?
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The debate about the future of Wales belongs to each of us, the view of an academic or two in the NHS is all very good but its not definitive.
Good to debate though.
I’d line up with tje late Eddie Butler, Michael Sheen, and Dafydd Iwan.
You can line up with David TC Davies, little Alun Cairns, Andrew RT Davies, and Rees-Mogg.
Let the debate begin.
But its already clear its only going in one direction …. | |
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| Devolution Debate on 19:24 - Dec 15 with 980 views | Wingstandwood |
| Devolution Debate on 19:02 - Dec 15 by Ohyeah |
Redfield & Wilton Strategies a totally discredited polling organisation...
These were the ones who did a poll for Wales online saying more people supported 20 mph...
Jac 0 the north has a piece on this mob.... |
Jac (Royston) is imo a nationalist who really cares about Wales, in fact he has a very low opinion of YesCymru who wants independence just like himself.
Why? Because he is totally unhappy with Wales being turned into a backward impoverished economic backwater and SPEAKS OUT against that and blames and names the people and Welsh government responsible.
The yokel Welsh-Nat types on the other hand seem to have a severe case of the 'JONAH COMPLEX', because they are happy with Wales sinking ever deeper into the gutter. That is why the anger was shown at Westminster money offer for the relief road, along with zero concern/criticism of 20 mph, appalling waste of hundreds of millions of pounds, bottom of the table E- Wales etc.
And of course Jac detests the Cardiff Bay lot and others, because they have destroyed all dreams of full independence, because nobody would ever vote for the force-multiplication of the sabotage-governance that we have all seen over the last quarter of a century, thats nothing other than the destruction of a country from within. |  |
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| Devolution Debate on 19:41 - Dec 15 with 960 views | Wingstandwood |
| Devolution Debate on 19:07 - Dec 15 by Kilkennyjack |
The debate about the future of Wales belongs to each of us, the view of an academic or two in the NHS is all very good but its not definitive.
Good to debate though.
I’d line up with tje late Eddie Butler, Michael Sheen, and Dafydd Iwan.
You can line up with David TC Davies, little Alun Cairns, Andrew RT Davies, and Rees-Mogg.
Let the debate begin.
But its already clear its only going in one direction …. |
QUOTE: "the view of an academic or two in the NHS is all very good but its not definitive".
I think you will find that the very people you call ‘academic’?
Are more doctor, more surgeon, more radiologist, more nurse practitioner and more radiologist etc than the celebrities and non-NHS public sector 'academics' usually called Tomos "ap" something or other, who don't have a clue in the slightest about the repercussions of their warped fairy-tale fantasies and daydreams.
Is Dafydd the dullard going to do a song about Wales going to England with a begging bowl when NHSBT has to be reorganised in Wales, because it'll no longer exist in full independence.
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| Devolution Debate on 19:54 - Dec 15 with 949 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Devolution Debate on 18:58 - Dec 15 by Kilkennyjack |
Proper polling company, you just don't like the results. |
Well the results aren't accurate and they don't say how many were excluded, what if 35% said "don't know"? that means 58% ( and that's accepting weighting which skews the result too ) of 65% would vote that way, out of 1000 people that actually means that before weighting less than 40% would vote that way. So add in weighting where they remove people from the "no" group and add them to the "yes" group and you get that flawed result.
Add the "don't knows" back in and that "less than 40%" drops to less than 25% and that is why polls that are adjusted are totally pointless and little more than lies. Which is why certain politicians love these types of company because they take a lie and dress it up as the truth.
Then people like you lap the lie up as a truism because it provides the result you want.
The only poll that is right is an actual vote, as brexit showed because all the polling said we'd go remain in a big way. I don't remember any company saying we'd choose leave up until the exit polls started coming in. | | | |
| Devolution Debate on 22:39 - Dec 15 with 890 views | Boundy |
| Devolution Debate on 19:02 - Dec 15 by Ohyeah |
Redfield & Wilton Strategies a totally discredited polling organisation...
These were the ones who did a poll for Wales online saying more people supported 20 mph...
Jac 0 the north has a piece on this mob.... |
I read it tonight , very interesting blog , maybe Killycat can review the piece and maybe amend his opinion on whether " Proper polling company, you just don't like the results." still applies
https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/03/11/has-labour-caugh
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| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Devolution Debate on 22:40 - Dec 15 with 889 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Devolution Debate on 19:24 - Dec 15 by Wingstandwood |
Jac (Royston) is imo a nationalist who really cares about Wales, in fact he has a very low opinion of YesCymru who wants independence just like himself.
Why? Because he is totally unhappy with Wales being turned into a backward impoverished economic backwater and SPEAKS OUT against that and blames and names the people and Welsh government responsible.
The yokel Welsh-Nat types on the other hand seem to have a severe case of the 'JONAH COMPLEX', because they are happy with Wales sinking ever deeper into the gutter. That is why the anger was shown at Westminster money offer for the relief road, along with zero concern/criticism of 20 mph, appalling waste of hundreds of millions of pounds, bottom of the table E- Wales etc.
And of course Jac detests the Cardiff Bay lot and others, because they have destroyed all dreams of full independence, because nobody would ever vote for the force-multiplication of the sabotage-governance that we have all seen over the last quarter of a century, thats nothing other than the destruction of a country from within. |
Independence is normal.
Thats it. | |
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| Devolution Debate on 22:42 - Dec 15 with 888 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Devolution Debate on 19:41 - Dec 15 by Wingstandwood |
QUOTE: "the view of an academic or two in the NHS is all very good but its not definitive".
I think you will find that the very people you call ‘academic’?
Are more doctor, more surgeon, more radiologist, more nurse practitioner and more radiologist etc than the celebrities and non-NHS public sector 'academics' usually called Tomos "ap" something or other, who don't have a clue in the slightest about the repercussions of their warped fairy-tale fantasies and daydreams.
Is Dafydd the dullard going to do a song about Wales going to England with a begging bowl when NHSBT has to be reorganised in Wales, because it'll no longer exist in full independence.
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Small nations in Europe are all very prosperous.
Wales will be the same. | |
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| Devolution Debate on 22:47 - Dec 15 with 885 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Devolution Debate on 19:54 - Dec 15 by SullutaCreturned |
Well the results aren't accurate and they don't say how many were excluded, what if 35% said "don't know"? that means 58% ( and that's accepting weighting which skews the result too ) of 65% would vote that way, out of 1000 people that actually means that before weighting less than 40% would vote that way. So add in weighting where they remove people from the "no" group and add them to the "yes" group and you get that flawed result.
Add the "don't knows" back in and that "less than 40%" drops to less than 25% and that is why polls that are adjusted are totally pointless and little more than lies. Which is why certain politicians love these types of company because they take a lie and dress it up as the truth.
Then people like you lap the lie up as a truism because it provides the result you want.
The only poll that is right is an actual vote, as brexit showed because all the polling said we'd go remain in a big way. I don't remember any company saying we'd choose leave up until the exit polls started coming in. |
I agree that votes are needed in Wales, Scotland, and the north of Ireland.
All in the next 10 years.
The more interesting debate is …does Indy Wales keep the Royals like Indy Scotland plan to,or get rid like Ireland…? 🇬🇧 | |
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| Devolution Debate on 22:55 - Dec 15 with 884 views | Kilkennyjack |
Yes the professional poll stands.
Your tired old union is pretty much dead. Its just reflecting that.
That said, a more modern federal uk could still work….?
Staying as it was in 1707 is simply not an option.
Johnson has greatly strengthened the Indy movement.
See …. The fat lump of lard was good at something after all. | |
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| Devolution Debate on 23:51 - Dec 15 with 860 views | union_jack |
| Devolution Debate on 19:07 - Dec 15 by Kilkennyjack |
The debate about the future of Wales belongs to each of us, the view of an academic or two in the NHS is all very good but its not definitive.
Good to debate though.
I’d line up with tje late Eddie Butler, Michael Sheen, and Dafydd Iwan.
You can line up with David TC Davies, little Alun Cairns, Andrew RT Davies, and Rees-Mogg.
Let the debate begin.
But its already clear its only going in one direction …. |
I have to admit, you are absolutely correct.
Just to be clear, I’m referring to your ‘it’s only going one direction’ statement.😉
You’re taking a pasting here. Common sense alway prevails. |  |
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| Devolution Debate on 00:09 - Dec 16 with 856 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Devolution Debate on 23:51 - Dec 15 by union_jack |
I have to admit, you are absolutely correct.
Just to be clear, I’m referring to your ‘it’s only going one direction’ statement.😉
You’re taking a pasting here. Common sense alway prevails. |
Go and look at the poll results again.
Everyone under 45 rejects the failed West Brit narrative.
We are welsh, not British.
Once the children of the second world war pass, then there will be nobody supporting your toxic union.
Get on the indy bus or get left behind … | |
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| Devolution Debate on 06:37 - Dec 16 with 838 views | AnotherJohn |
| Devolution Debate on 22:42 - Dec 15 by Kilkennyjack |
Small nations in Europe are all very prosperous.
Wales will be the same. |
Like the Republic whose healthcare system still hasn't recovered from the result of the neoliberal austerity that followed the EU's imposition of the excessive deficit procedure? Ireland's working class population are waking up to the fact that prosperity only extends to the fortunate ones in well-paid jobs, who can afford private medical insurance. Greece is another example of the limits of EU social solidarity - the first country in Europe that had universal healthcare coverage and then lost it (no free or low-cost state coverage for the long-term unemployed for a time). The Scottish and Welsh nationalists who crave EU membership are counting on EU subsidies, but even the German economy is starting to creak. | | | |
| Devolution Debate on 10:16 - Dec 16 with 773 views | Whiterockin |
| Devolution Debate on 00:09 - Dec 16 by Kilkennyjack |
Go and look at the poll results again.
Everyone under 45 rejects the failed West Brit narrative.
We are welsh, not British.
Once the children of the second world war pass, then there will be nobody supporting your toxic union.
Get on the indy bus or get left behind … |
"Everyone under 45 rejects the failed West Brit narrative.
We are welsh, not British."
Really. |  | | |
| Devolution Debate on 10:32 - Dec 16 with 758 views | Boundy |
| Devolution Debate on 10:16 - Dec 16 by Whiterockin |
"Everyone under 45 rejects the failed West Brit narrative.
We are welsh, not British."
Really. |
I think he means in his social group, a straw poll by a dubious pollster is not a true reflection on the views of that specific group. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Devolution Debate on 10:47 - Dec 16 with 754 views | Togg |
| Devolution Debate on 10:16 - Dec 16 by Whiterockin |
"Everyone under 45 rejects the failed West Brit narrative.
We are welsh, not British."
Really. |
Well I see myself as Welsh/British..British/Welsh...with a mixture of Austria Germanic and yes English. More than happy with that! | | | |
| Devolution Debate on 13:19 - Dec 16 with 717 views | pencoedjack |
| Devolution Debate on 07:27 - Dec 15 by BryanSwan |
Has devolution failed or are the politicians that we having charge of it simply not up to scratch.
I wouldn't want us to be thrown back under Westminsters sole control, but clearly there do need to be some big changes going forward. |
Agree with this, the problem is the idiotic Indy lot can see no fault in how Wales is currently being run & it causes a greater divide.
With the current government in Westminster you’d think independence in both Wales & Scotland would be gaining momentum, the harsh reality is it’s going backwards. |  | | |
| Devolution Debate on 13:50 - Dec 16 with 675 views | Boundy |
| Devolution Debate on 10:47 - Dec 16 by Togg |
Well I see myself as Welsh/British..British/Welsh...with a mixture of Austria Germanic and yes English. More than happy with that! |
a well balanced individual then | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Devolution Debate on 16:01 - Dec 16 with 640 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Devolution Debate on 13:50 - Dec 16 by Boundy |
a well balanced individual then |
You can see yourself however you like, of course, but there are only 4 nations in the British Isles - England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland. So take your pick.
Britain is not a nation.
The Great in Great Britain simply refers to the largest island in the British Isles. | |
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| Devolution Debate on 18:35 - Dec 16 with 619 views | AnotherJohn |
| Devolution Debate on 16:01 - Dec 16 by Kilkennyjack |
You can see yourself however you like, of course, but there are only 4 nations in the British Isles - England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland. So take your pick.
Britain is not a nation.
The Great in Great Britain simply refers to the largest island in the British Isles. |
I question the use of "nation" for the UK home countries. which I think is confusing. The BBC and even Hugo Keith KC in the COVID inquiry do this, and it is true that country and nation don't have precise definitions. so these terms may be stretched to this usage. Some say that country refers to geography and nation to a people, but this is far from agreed usage. The terms are not used in the devolution legislation, and this is probably because as far as nation states go, the only two on the British Isles are the UK and the RoI. These are the entities that are represented on the international bodies where nation states meet, and the only ones that have the full range of institutions that nation states possess. Devolution does not mean that the UK is a federation of states; the grant of power to the devolved administrations comes from the UK Parliament and could be rescinded, thus preserving the UK's de jure status as a unitary sovereign state. The Scots have it right when they sing "Flower of Scotland". How can you "be the nation again" if this has already happened? [Post edited 16 Dec 2023 18:42]
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| Devolution Debate on 21:50 - Dec 16 with 529 views | Whiterockin |
I don't see it as any debate, devolution is not going to happen end of. | | | |
| Devolution Debate on 22:46 - Dec 16 with 488 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Devolution Debate on 21:50 - Dec 16 by Whiterockin |
I don't see it as any debate, devolution is not going to happen end of. |
Devolution occured back in 1999.
The Queen came and opened it. | |
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| Devolution Debate on 22:48 - Dec 16 with 486 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Devolution Debate on 18:35 - Dec 16 by AnotherJohn |
I question the use of "nation" for the UK home countries. which I think is confusing. The BBC and even Hugo Keith KC in the COVID inquiry do this, and it is true that country and nation don't have precise definitions. so these terms may be stretched to this usage. Some say that country refers to geography and nation to a people, but this is far from agreed usage. The terms are not used in the devolution legislation, and this is probably because as far as nation states go, the only two on the British Isles are the UK and the RoI. These are the entities that are represented on the international bodies where nation states meet, and the only ones that have the full range of institutions that nation states possess. Devolution does not mean that the UK is a federation of states; the grant of power to the devolved administrations comes from the UK Parliament and could be rescinded, thus preserving the UK's de jure status as a unitary sovereign state. The Scots have it right when they sing "Flower of Scotland". How can you "be the nation again" if this has already happened? [Post edited 16 Dec 2023 18:42]
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Having their own parliament again to run their own nation.
Pen and ink on paper can never define a nation like Scotland.
Scotland as a nation exists.
Accept it and move on. | |
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