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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK 23:28 - Nov 10 with 1242968 viewspikeypaul



And like a typical anti democracy remoaner he decided the will of the people should be ignored the minute the democratic result was in total fecking hypocrite 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Despite it being voted in to law by the commons the spineless two faced remoaner MPs have totally abandoned any morals and decided to ignore the will of the British people.

It will be remembered and no election or referendum will ever be the same again in this country.

The one thing that will come is a massive surge in the popularity of UKIP or a similar party in the future who stand for the 52%.

Happy Days.

[Post edited 29 Mar 4:37]

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Poll: Where wil Judas be sitting when we play Millwall?

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The Countdown begins. on 12:26 - Mar 12 with 1048 viewsbluey_the_blue

The Countdown begins. on 12:15 - Mar 12 by WarwickHunt

Rees-Mogg : "This has been advertised as a unilateral ability. It’s not unilateral".

Barclay: What is unilateral is what we are asserting, is our interpretation. And the fact this is not disputed by the EU becomes common ground that goes before the arbitrators. So this is not saying this is a unilateral exit in the regard you’re referring to. What it is saying is the ability to trigger our interpretation is what the unilateral declaration is referring to.

Err - you farkin' what?


I think he's saying we've a unilateral interpretation?

It reads as if he's saying that in the case we try to get out of backstop be alleging bad faith dealings on the part of EU, that because we have one view and the EU haven't rejected that then whoever arbitrates will accept our interpretation and EU can't say otherwise.

I think Cox could sum that up in one word.
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The Countdown begins. on 12:33 - Mar 12 with 1034 viewslonglostjack

The Countdown begins. on 12:18 - Mar 12 by bluey_the_blue

You want to be bound to EU deals with no lnfluence on them whatsoever?

Where EU lacks a trade deal we'd be unable to conduct our own.

Trapped in backstop forever because proving "bad faith" will be nigh on impossible.

How is that any good?


Para 1. No. It would be better to continue to have a say in shaping the rules.

Para 2. UK vs US and China. That’ll end well.

Para 3. It’s not good.

Poll: Who is responsible for the Brexit fiasco?

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The Countdown begins. on 12:40 - Mar 12 with 993 viewspikeypaul

17 AFLI

SIUYRL

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Poll: Where wil Judas be sitting when we play Millwall?

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The Countdown begins. on 12:40 - Mar 12 with 993 viewsmajorraglan

The Countdown begins. on 12:18 - Mar 12 by bluey_the_blue

You want to be bound to EU deals with no lnfluence on them whatsoever?

Where EU lacks a trade deal we'd be unable to conduct our own.

Trapped in backstop forever because proving "bad faith" will be nigh on impossible.

How is that any good?


WTO is not good news.

In terms of trade deals, Dr Fox and his team have done a great job so far, something like 7 of the 67 countries the EU has trade agreements with signed agreements with us. This includes the Faroe Islands who import £16m a year from us, but export £226m to us. Guess what, the other 6 countries all export more to us than they import from us. Great stuff!

Would like to see a deal signed off where we actually export more to someone than we import.
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The Countdown begins. on 12:43 - Mar 12 with 985 viewsWarwickHunt

The Countdown begins. on 12:40 - Mar 12 by pikeypaul

17 AFLI

SIUYRL


Twàt.
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The Countdown begins. on 12:43 - Mar 12 with 984 viewsbluey_the_blue

The Countdown begins. on 12:33 - Mar 12 by longlostjack

Para 1. No. It would be better to continue to have a say in shaping the rules.

Para 2. UK vs US and China. That’ll end well.

Para 3. It’s not good.


So it's either join a custom union or remain. Neither would heal the political divide.

EU vs Japan, for example, ended well for car manufacturing.
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The Countdown begins. on 12:54 - Mar 12 with 955 viewslonglostjack

The Countdown begins. on 12:43 - Mar 12 by bluey_the_blue

So it's either join a custom union or remain. Neither would heal the political divide.

EU vs Japan, for example, ended well for car manufacturing.


So the UK on it’s own, led by David Davis, could reach a much better trade deal with Japan ?

People are bored to death with the whole Brexit fiasco. Or are you referring to the political divide in the Tory Party that led to this sorry state of affairs ?

Poll: Who is responsible for the Brexit fiasco?

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The Countdown begins. on 13:54 - Mar 12 with 908 viewsmajorraglan

The Countdown begins. on 12:54 - Mar 12 by longlostjack

So the UK on it’s own, led by David Davis, could reach a much better trade deal with Japan ?

People are bored to death with the whole Brexit fiasco. Or are you referring to the political divide in the Tory Party that led to this sorry state of affairs ?


Japanese have already indicated they won’t give us the same terms they have given the EU.

I genuinely believe a lot of people who rise to positions of power in this country come from privileged backgrounds and that some have absolutely no idea as to what is happening in the real world and are completely out of touch.
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The Countdown begins. on 14:00 - Mar 12 with 899 viewsBatterseajack

The Countdown begins. on 12:43 - Mar 12 by bluey_the_blue

So it's either join a custom union or remain. Neither would heal the political divide.

EU vs Japan, for example, ended well for car manufacturing.


F**k my eyes. Why are we concerning ourselves with how the FTA meant that the Japanese car manufacturers chose to relocate to Japan instead of the EU? Surely we should be concerning ourselves by the fact they left in the first place, and that is primarily because in 17 days, the UK could quite possibly be without a FTA with both Japan and the EU.
[Post edited 12 Mar 14:00]
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The Countdown begins. on 14:07 - Mar 12 with 892 viewsunion_jack

TM doesn’t sound well in HoC

Are Sperm Whales the reason the sea is so salty?
Poll: Bony - Would You Want Him Back?

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The Countdown begins. on 14:41 - Mar 12 with 862 viewsHighjack

The Countdown begins. on 14:07 - Mar 12 by union_jack

TM doesn’t sound well in HoC


Junker must have offered her a drink.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: The official planetswans European election poll. Your vote goes to?

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The Countdown begins. on 15:29 - Mar 12 with 805 viewsmonmouth

The Countdown begins. on 14:07 - Mar 12 by union_jack

TM doesn’t sound well in HoC


Prozac dose is intravenous now.

And still she drones on.

Poll: TRUST MEMBERS: What DID you vote in the, um, vote

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The Countdown begins. on 15:36 - Mar 12 with 795 viewsmonmouth

The Countdown begins. on 15:29 - Mar 12 by monmouth

Prozac dose is intravenous now.

And still she drones on.


And now we get f*cking Corbyn, who is actually as boring and useless as the trouser press that he is nearly named for.

What a shit bunch of shitty shitheads.

What next? Vince the f*cking Cable foxtrotting in.

Poll: TRUST MEMBERS: What DID you vote in the, um, vote

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The Countdown begins. on 15:51 - Mar 12 with 788 viewsbluey_the_blue

The Countdown begins. on 14:00 - Mar 12 by Batterseajack

F**k my eyes. Why are we concerning ourselves with how the FTA meant that the Japanese car manufacturers chose to relocate to Japan instead of the EU? Surely we should be concerning ourselves by the fact they left in the first place, and that is primarily because in 17 days, the UK could quite possibly be without a FTA with both Japan and the EU.
[Post edited 12 Mar 14:00]


The point is Japanese car manufacturing losing jobs ( well, except where they'd not transfer manufacturing hence no jobs lost ) is widely blamed on Brexit, a massive red herring.

Where there's demand for cars, jibs are arriving - see Toyota Corolla. Where cars are niche diesels or indeed diesels at al, the market is plummeting to the point there's no incentive to manufacture here given the EU has made it less important for cars to be manufactured within EU.

The decision was made to leave EU. As incompetent as May is, EU intransigence means no deal was ever possible. Parliament can't decide what type of leave is required, idiots want no deal taken off table.

So f*ck it, leave under WTO rules and rebuild from there.
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The Countdown begins. on 16:00 - Mar 12 with 776 viewssherpajacob

The Countdown begins. on 12:40 - Mar 12 by pikeypaul

17 AFLI

SIUYRL


When parLiament votes for an A50 Albright extension in 2 days time, Does this thread get extended as well, or just put out of its misery?

Poll: Your favourite ever Swans shirt sponsor?

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The Countdown begins. on 16:12 - Mar 12 with 769 viewsJACKMANANDBOY

The Countdown begins. on 15:51 - Mar 12 by bluey_the_blue

The point is Japanese car manufacturing losing jobs ( well, except where they'd not transfer manufacturing hence no jobs lost ) is widely blamed on Brexit, a massive red herring.

Where there's demand for cars, jibs are arriving - see Toyota Corolla. Where cars are niche diesels or indeed diesels at al, the market is plummeting to the point there's no incentive to manufacture here given the EU has made it less important for cars to be manufactured within EU.

The decision was made to leave EU. As incompetent as May is, EU intransigence means no deal was ever possible. Parliament can't decide what type of leave is required, idiots want no deal taken off table.

So f*ck it, leave under WTO rules and rebuild from there.


The way things are going I feel you are right, no deal is the only way to get out of the EU that are invested in making things difficult by any other route, the alternative is to remain.

Besian Idrizaj Forever a Jack

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The Countdown begins. on 16:17 - Mar 12 with 763 viewsHighjack

The Countdown begins. on 16:00 - Mar 12 by sherpajacob

When parLiament votes for an A50 Albright extension in 2 days time, Does this thread get extended as well, or just put out of its misery?


No because the exit date remains the same as per the law.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: The official planetswans European election poll. Your vote goes to?

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The Countdown begins. on 16:40 - Mar 12 with 739 viewsHighjack

The Countdown begins. on 16:12 - Mar 12 by JACKMANANDBOY

The way things are going I feel you are right, no deal is the only way to get out of the EU that are invested in making things difficult by any other route, the alternative is to remain.


Inevitable from the start. No deal or remain. Been saying it all along.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Poll: The official planetswans European election poll. Your vote goes to?

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The Countdown begins. on 17:01 - Mar 12 with 716 viewsmajorraglan

The Countdown begins. on 16:12 - Mar 12 by JACKMANANDBOY

The way things are going I feel you are right, no deal is the only way to get out of the EU that are invested in making things difficult by any other route, the alternative is to remain.


The whole thing is a mess. Just as we have our interests to protect the EU have their own interests to protect and I dare say they see us as being awkward and inflexible and wanting the penny and the bun whilst we see exactly the same from an opposite position. For lots of people the issue is immigration plain and simple and the spin off from there, including increased house prices, pressure on public services, no pay rises, drop in living standard. Lots of the people at the top gave no thought to the implications of the Good Friday Agreement and Northern Ireland.

Whether your for or opposed to Brexit, our “leaders” have handled it appallingly.
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The Countdown begins. on 17:02 - Mar 12 with 715 viewsunion_jack

The Countdown begins. on 16:40 - Mar 12 by Highjack

Inevitable from the start. No deal or remain. Been saying it all along.


To be honest, I believe many who voted for Brexit did so, naïvely possibly, thinking of a no deal scenario (without knowing the full consequences). So maybe it should be the vote that you say.

However, I’d rather it be a Remain or May’s Deal choice. Got to be better for the country surely.

Are Sperm Whales the reason the sea is so salty?
Poll: Bony - Would You Want Him Back?

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The Countdown begins. on 17:13 - Mar 12 with 704 viewsJACKMANANDBOY

The Countdown begins. on 17:02 - Mar 12 by union_jack

To be honest, I believe many who voted for Brexit did so, naïvely possibly, thinking of a no deal scenario (without knowing the full consequences). So maybe it should be the vote that you say.

However, I’d rather it be a Remain or May’s Deal choice. Got to be better for the country surely.


If Parliament votes down the deal and then passed back to the country and the country approves it.... hopefully all our MPs will resign, I'm sick of the lot of them.

As for the referendum, probably need to go back to the same question as last time?

Besian Idrizaj Forever a Jack

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The Countdown begins. on 17:17 - Mar 12 with 695 viewsunion_jack

The Countdown begins. on 17:13 - Mar 12 by JACKMANANDBOY

If Parliament votes down the deal and then passed back to the country and the country approves it.... hopefully all our MPs will resign, I'm sick of the lot of them.

As for the referendum, probably need to go back to the same question as last time?


Yes, but leave on what terms? Remain takes care of itself.

The only two options realistically, discounting Canada+ or Norway++, is No Deal or May’s Deal.

Are Sperm Whales the reason the sea is so salty?
Poll: Bony - Would You Want Him Back?

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The Countdown begins. on 17:18 - Mar 12 with 695 viewsPozuelosSideys

The thing that gets my goat is that the whole discussion has been around the economy and money - all of which can only be scenario planned (educated guesses) and no facts. Much like every other topic. Very few people who i have spoken to about voting Leave gave even one toss about the financial and a whole swathe of other reasons.

The Remain end of the spectrum spent the first 12 months (and still do) calling every Leave voter a racist, xenophobe blah blah blah, then turned the attention to the economy.

Its really very disconcerting that it appears the media now sets the agenda, rather than just reporting it too.

"Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper."
Poll: Hattricks

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The Countdown begins. on 17:35 - Mar 12 with 679 viewslondonlisa2001

The Countdown begins. on 17:18 - Mar 12 by PozuelosSideys

The thing that gets my goat is that the whole discussion has been around the economy and money - all of which can only be scenario planned (educated guesses) and no facts. Much like every other topic. Very few people who i have spoken to about voting Leave gave even one toss about the financial and a whole swathe of other reasons.

The Remain end of the spectrum spent the first 12 months (and still do) calling every Leave voter a racist, xenophobe blah blah blah, then turned the attention to the economy.

Its really very disconcerting that it appears the media now sets the agenda, rather than just reporting it too.


The issue though Poz, is that people are prepared for there to be a financial hit, even a significant financial hit, in return for a perceived ‘return of control’, but ONLY if it’s not themselves but someone else, that suffers that financial hit.

As an example, Loh posted recently that a majority in the steelworks voted for Brexit. I have no doubt that is the case, I equally have no doubt that many would vote for a ‘no deal’ Brexit. However, if the choice presented was ‘do you want a no deal Brexit (or any Brexit) knowing that Tata would withdraw funding and move production from the UK to the Netherlands, causing a significant reduction of your standard of living and that of your family’ I don’t believe the answer would be the same.

Now, you may say that Tata won’t do that, it’s ‘project fear’ if you like. But the stark reality, is that Tata will take a decision based on Tata’s financial planning or modelling. And those models will be based on EXACTLY the same models as are being used to prepare the forecast that you mention. They are not necessarily accurate. Hopefully they are extremely inaccurate. But that’s irrelevant to some extent, as they are more likely to be accurate (or near accurate) than any other forecast, which is why they are being used. And If everyone uses the same models, they, to a large extent, become a self fulfilling prophecy.
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The Countdown begins. on 17:55 - Mar 12 with 655 viewsPozuelosSideys

The Countdown begins. on 17:35 - Mar 12 by londonlisa2001

The issue though Poz, is that people are prepared for there to be a financial hit, even a significant financial hit, in return for a perceived ‘return of control’, but ONLY if it’s not themselves but someone else, that suffers that financial hit.

As an example, Loh posted recently that a majority in the steelworks voted for Brexit. I have no doubt that is the case, I equally have no doubt that many would vote for a ‘no deal’ Brexit. However, if the choice presented was ‘do you want a no deal Brexit (or any Brexit) knowing that Tata would withdraw funding and move production from the UK to the Netherlands, causing a significant reduction of your standard of living and that of your family’ I don’t believe the answer would be the same.

Now, you may say that Tata won’t do that, it’s ‘project fear’ if you like. But the stark reality, is that Tata will take a decision based on Tata’s financial planning or modelling. And those models will be based on EXACTLY the same models as are being used to prepare the forecast that you mention. They are not necessarily accurate. Hopefully they are extremely inaccurate. But that’s irrelevant to some extent, as they are more likely to be accurate (or near accurate) than any other forecast, which is why they are being used. And If everyone uses the same models, they, to a large extent, become a self fulfilling prophecy.


I know that and you know that as we are comfortable in our understanding of the potential financial outcomes (or at least how these scenarios are put together, modelled and then slapped up on the powerpoint deck).

I honestly believe people are more concerned with the cultural changes and the way society is moving a whole. Not only does the UK create jobs for the British, but its also creating jobs for large numbers of Europeans and Non EU immigrants. This keeps the wages down, keeps working conditions from improving and most certainly means companies will not educate or develop skillsets at the lower end as they know they can just bin the employee off and hire somebody else back in from elsewhere for a lower number. But of course, we cant have this conversation as it gets shouted down for being racist, xenophobic, gender blah blah etc

We can argue about what we get from "taking back control", but flip that and what are the people at the lower ends of the pay scale and soceity getting from the current status quo within the EU? The agenda is being set by the media, the politicians and "the elite" from London who are middling to upper earners and arent struggling. They wouldnt have a clue what goes through the minds of the masses. Not a single clue how John from the production line, living on the Townhill estate struggles. Brexit is a big role of the dice from the people as they simply arent being heard.

Anyway, when all this settles down, the first thing that needs to happen is the BBC needs to no longer be taxpayer funded. It needs to stand alone - its not fit for purpose. Some of the interpretations on the Business section alone today is staggeringly poor, alarming even.

Gone off on a tangent a bit there, but you then get these knobs talking about Blue Passports and the like - as if a single person voted on an item like that.

Its frightening as to the levels plumbed by all sides here from those who have influence. Before this, many of us on here alone hoped for a balanced, reasoned dabate. What we got as soon as the Ref was announced was a kids tea party with jelly and ice cream dribbling down the walls.

Fcking idiots. Rant over :)

Edit: i mused with Shaky about models recently too. But we both know there are multiple scenarios planned in these models. Worse case scenarios will always be pushed as headline news in order to maintain credibility for those delivering. If its wrong, its forgotten and old news. If they provide positive scenarios and its correct, nobody cares - just doing their job. But produce positive scenarios and theyre wrong - there goes credibility. Its cherry picked outputs. (and yes, i moan about this to my bosses too!) Agenda setting..
[Post edited 12 Mar 17:59]

"Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper."
Poll: Hattricks

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