| Where does Ainsworth go from here? 12:16 - Mar 15 with 27634 views | mart_Goblin |
What’s his next move here?
Reading between the lines you can tell he was very angry last night but he knows damn well that he has to walk on egg shells with this precious bunch. He will be all too aware of what they did to NC when he dared to publicly criticise them. He used words like weak last night which to me tells you his real mindset and not just his media voice.
After seeing the lineup last night before kick off I was surprised he didn’t make at least a couple of changes, for example he openly said Dozzell wanted to come off Saturday because he was knackered (huge red flag anyway that several members of our squad can’t play 90 bloody minutes), but in hindsight, if he had made changes and we got pumped 6-1 we’d all be saying he shouldn’t change a winning team .
Same team , same formation …it can’t always be the manager and we are once again realising the impossible job NC had.
Personally I hope he is tearing strips off of this bunch privately. Some of them are nothing but con men . You can’t do what you did Saturday and then serve up that garbage 72 hours later .
Getting this lot up and the same as last Saturday against Birmingham seems almost impossible now .
I hope he was in with LF this morning tearing strips off of him too. Imagine having to work with this lot on a daily basis ?
GA being here also means that we now have to stop shopping in the premier league A & E department. You need to fit to play the way he wants and this lot ain’t no where near it . Not physically or mentally able or just plain injured all the time. Those won’t work under GA . [Post edited 15 Mar 2023 12:28]
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| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 15:30 - Mar 22 with 3280 views | francisbowles |
Yes, but none of those had a storming start to their career with a big club and then watched it just fade away. Not saying that will happen to the Brighton kid but quite a few players have made impressive starts but not been able to keep the standard up. |  | | |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 16:02 - Mar 22 with 3197 views | toboboly |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 15:30 - Mar 22 by francisbowles |
Yes, but none of those had a storming start to their career with a big club and then watched it just fade away. Not saying that will happen to the Brighton kid but quite a few players have made impressive starts but not been able to keep the standard up. |
What we would give for even a bright start to the current youth lots careers. Far too many are too old with far too few games at any level. |  |
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| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 16:27 - Mar 22 with 3133 views | PinnerPaul |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 19:51 - Mar 21 by swisscottage |
Your last paragraph is a joke surely.
Cortisone injections for aching/swollen joints is one thing. Expecting people to be able to play with a muscle tear is idiocy. |
Indeed and all those 'bodies' mentioned have been involved in some shocking defeats/performances as well! | | | |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 16:33 - Mar 22 with 3126 views | kernowhoop |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 18:24 - Mar 21 by ed_83 |
I think youth teamers who aren't already in or around the first team squad are a question for next season. I'd maybe give Gubbins a go just because of how awful Dickie's been, but that's about it.
In terms of where Gareth goes next, I think there are four things:
Set some basic standards for the club, as Clive's mentioned. Regardless of all the injuries and disruptions and low morale, the absolute bottom line is that everyone who plays for this team should be giving everything they have to it. No half-baked stuff, no lazing about, whether you're in the starting 11 or not you need to bring a fundamental level of professionalism which we don't currently seem to have.
Get us more defensively solid. I imagine a lot of the international break will be focused on defending set pieces, getting our shape right, and tightening up at the back more generally. We're a complete clown show, giving away goals for fun. Absolutely imperative that we get some structure in defence, and at least make other teams work if they want to score against us.
Build some self-belief: we all know we've been rubbish, but also that this squad are capable of playing excellent football and winning games. A little bit of confidence should get us over the line hopefully
Get injured players fit. Stuff them with painkilling injections, threaten them with a stint in the B team, whatever it takes. Just get bodies out on the pitch and playing. The absence of Laird, Paal, Chair, Willock, JCS, Balogun, an actually fit Johansen and whoever else is absolutely killing us. |
Good thinking.
Cannot argue with 'Get us more defensively solid.'
But, this prompted me to recall that fragility in defence is not new. Mark Warburton tried to address it. Mick Beale tried to address it. Neil Critchley tried to address it.
This leads me to ask whether each manager had been trying something different and exactly what it is that Gareth Ainsworth might do that has not been tried before.
'Defending set pieces, getting our shape right...etc' What is the key to success and does Gareth know about it? | | | |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 19:10 - Mar 22 with 2979 views | kernowhoop |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 16:33 - Mar 22 by kernowhoop |
Good thinking.
Cannot argue with 'Get us more defensively solid.'
But, this prompted me to recall that fragility in defence is not new. Mark Warburton tried to address it. Mick Beale tried to address it. Neil Critchley tried to address it.
This leads me to ask whether each manager had been trying something different and exactly what it is that Gareth Ainsworth might do that has not been tried before.
'Defending set pieces, getting our shape right...etc' What is the key to success and does Gareth know about it? |
Oh dear. That killed the discussion, which was not what I had hoped for.
Does anyone have any idea what goes on in defensive coaching?
Did Warburton tell them to do one thing; Beale tell them to do another and Critchley something else? If so, it would not be surprising if the players were a bit muddled.
Is defensive coaching - set pieces, shape etc - all from one coaching manual, or, are there alternatives (beyond the argument between man-to-man and zonal marking)?
When I captained a Sunday league team in the 1970s, I would shout 'Man each. Keep it tight at the back!' Presumably, there is more to it than that  . | | | |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 20:18 - Mar 22 with 2920 views | NottsQPR |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 19:10 - Mar 22 by kernowhoop |
Oh dear. That killed the discussion, which was not what I had hoped for.
Does anyone have any idea what goes on in defensive coaching?
Did Warburton tell them to do one thing; Beale tell them to do another and Critchley something else? If so, it would not be surprising if the players were a bit muddled.
Is defensive coaching - set pieces, shape etc - all from one coaching manual, or, are there alternatives (beyond the argument between man-to-man and zonal marking)?
When I captained a Sunday league team in the 1970s, I would shout 'Man each. Keep it tight at the back!' Presumably, there is more to it than that . |
It doesn’t take a lot of searching to find the numerous quotes from people like Clint Hill and others about Warbs doing absolutely no defensive work in training. I’d suggest we have some very little for some time. The current trend is for a ‘halcyon times’ re-write of the Warbs Era making him sound like some kind of Messiah. The truth is that we were well in danger of going down had the ‘cavalry’ (excuse the pun) of Austin, Johansen, De Wijs and Field arrived. | | | |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 21:58 - Mar 22 with 2801 views | joe90 |
We absolutely leaked goals under Warbs, but we were also scoring them. I don’t think I ‘romanticise’ that period, but it did feel like we were going in the right direction. There was a distinct style of football and we were riding high on Eze.
With Ainsworth I’m not expecting anything from him this season, just needs to get it done with. Once summer comes he can clear the des wood.
It would be interesting to see what he does if we do manage to stay up. I wonder how different it would be to what he’d do if we go down? |  | | |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 22:12 - Mar 22 with 2765 views | PunteR |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 20:18 - Mar 22 by NottsQPR |
It doesn’t take a lot of searching to find the numerous quotes from people like Clint Hill and others about Warbs doing absolutely no defensive work in training. I’d suggest we have some very little for some time. The current trend is for a ‘halcyon times’ re-write of the Warbs Era making him sound like some kind of Messiah. The truth is that we were well in danger of going down had the ‘cavalry’ (excuse the pun) of Austin, Johansen, De Wijs and Field arrived. |
correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we finish the Warburton seasons 13th ,9th and 11th ?
I know it's not pulling up trees but we didn't look like relegation candidates to me.. We looked like genuine contenders.
State of it now compared. |  |
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| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 09:44 - Mar 23 with 2576 views | kernowhoop |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 22:12 - Mar 22 by PunteR |
correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we finish the Warburton seasons 13th ,9th and 11th ?
I know it's not pulling up trees but we didn't look like relegation candidates to me.. We looked like genuine contenders.
State of it now compared. |
Fair comment, PunteR.
I cannot help but think that plugging the leaks at the back is the greatest priority. I would love to be wrong about that and see a team committed to attack, maybe winning 3-2 or 4-3 , but that is for the dreamers. Instead, let's start with a set-up that says 'You are not going to score against QPR' and then build from there. | | | |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 10:05 - Mar 23 with 2533 views | terryb |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 20:18 - Mar 22 by NottsQPR |
It doesn’t take a lot of searching to find the numerous quotes from people like Clint Hill and others about Warbs doing absolutely no defensive work in training. I’d suggest we have some very little for some time. The current trend is for a ‘halcyon times’ re-write of the Warbs Era making him sound like some kind of Messiah. The truth is that we were well in danger of going down had the ‘cavalry’ (excuse the pun) of Austin, Johansen, De Wijs and Field arrived. |
You may be correct, but Clint Hill had no connection to Queens Park Rangers during the period Warburton was manager, so how would he know whatwork was being carried out in training? | | | |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 10:17 - Mar 23 with 2497 views | traininvain |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 22:12 - Mar 22 by PunteR |
correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we finish the Warburton seasons 13th ,9th and 11th ?
I know it's not pulling up trees but we didn't look like relegation candidates to me.. We looked like genuine contenders.
State of it now compared. |
Spot on. Not keeping Warburton will prove to be our equivalent of the Curbishley/Charlton situation.
It’s a sad state of affairs but we were overachieving finishing mid table under Warburton. |  | | |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 10:39 - Mar 23 with 2472 views | hook_hoops |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 10:05 - Mar 23 by terryb |
You may be correct, but Clint Hill had no connection to Queens Park Rangers during the period Warburton was manager, so how would he know whatwork was being carried out in training? |
Clint Hill was referring to the period hen he played under Mark Warburton at Glasgow Rangers. | | | |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 12:05 - Mar 23 with 2404 views | Loyalitat |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 10:17 - Mar 23 by traininvain |
Spot on. Not keeping Warburton will prove to be our equivalent of the Curbishley/Charlton situation.
It’s a sad state of affairs but we were overachieving finishing mid table under Warburton. |
Contrast that with Coventry City, whose form tailed off like ours last season, but they correctly decided to extend M Robins' contract, even though at that time he had already managed Coventry for five years.
They now lie just outside the play-offs and I wouldn't be surprised if they make the top six by the end of the season, now that they have Godden back and scoring in tandem with Gyokeres. [Post edited 23 Mar 2023 12:48]
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| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 14:24 - Mar 23 with 2252 views | TheChef |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 19:10 - Mar 22 by kernowhoop |
Oh dear. That killed the discussion, which was not what I had hoped for.
Does anyone have any idea what goes on in defensive coaching?
Did Warburton tell them to do one thing; Beale tell them to do another and Critchley something else? If so, it would not be surprising if the players were a bit muddled.
Is defensive coaching - set pieces, shape etc - all from one coaching manual, or, are there alternatives (beyond the argument between man-to-man and zonal marking)?
When I captained a Sunday league team in the 1970s, I would shout 'Man each. Keep it tight at the back!' Presumably, there is more to it than that . |
Anyone got George Graham's number? |  |
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| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 14:47 - Mar 23 with 2223 views | kernowhoop |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 14:24 - Mar 23 by TheChef |
Anyone got George Graham's number? |
'Boring boring Rangers' ?
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| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 14:57 - Mar 23 with 2199 views | stantheman10 |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 10:17 - Mar 23 by traininvain |
Spot on. Not keeping Warburton will prove to be our equivalent of the Curbishley/Charlton situation.
It’s a sad state of affairs but we were overachieving finishing mid table under Warburton. |
Was Warburton that good? He hasn't exactly been a success as a coach at West Ham who have gone from 7th last season to 18th this season since he's been there and he was also sacked by Forest and Rangers. Not exactly and game changer is he! | | | |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 15:54 - Mar 23 with 2128 views | traininvain |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 14:57 - Mar 23 by stantheman10 |
Was Warburton that good? He hasn't exactly been a success as a coach at West Ham who have gone from 7th last season to 18th this season since he's been there and he was also sacked by Forest and Rangers. Not exactly and game changer is he! |
Surely the more relevant comparison is where he had QPR finishing compared to what’s happened this season. Upper mid table vs scrapping to avoid relegation. I know which option I prefer.
Not to mention that the football was generally entertaining. End of last season was poor granted but over the course of his reign we were generally a top half team and enjoyable to watch. | | | |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 16:04 - Mar 23 with 2079 views | Loyalitat |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 14:57 - Mar 23 by stantheman10 |
Was Warburton that good? He hasn't exactly been a success as a coach at West Ham who have gone from 7th last season to 18th this season since he's been there and he was also sacked by Forest and Rangers. Not exactly and game changer is he! |
So since his departure, we haven't regressed this season. The evidence would suggest otherwise. [Post edited 23 Mar 2023 16:13]
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| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 16:40 - Mar 23 with 1970 views | Silverfoxqpr |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 16:04 - Mar 23 by Loyalitat |
So since his departure, we haven't regressed this season. The evidence would suggest otherwise. [Post edited 23 Mar 2023 16:13]
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'Regressed' would be being kind. |  | | |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 18:04 - Mar 23 with 1890 views | PunteR |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 12:05 - Mar 23 by Loyalitat |
Contrast that with Coventry City, whose form tailed off like ours last season, but they correctly decided to extend M Robins' contract, even though at that time he had already managed Coventry for five years.
They now lie just outside the play-offs and I wouldn't be surprised if they make the top six by the end of the season, now that they have Godden back and scoring in tandem with Gyokeres. [Post edited 23 Mar 2023 12:48]
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Good example using Robins.
Warburton wasn't perfect but he was by far better than MacClaren, Holloway, JFH and Ramsey.
That last 4 months or whatever it was unravelled due to many factors. But it wasn't solely Warburtons fault. He just took the rap. Relationships broke down and that was that.
New Bee's Warbz klaxon will be going off now and he'll be along in a minute to stick the boot in.
I was there at Warburtons last game at LR and the fans were chanting his name after. I think we lost the match. Does that normally happen in football..?..(The chanting, not the losing..) It just seemed mad to me to let him go. We didn't even have a replacement lined up either, which is risky.
The next appointment had to be good and I just feel with that pressure perhaps they just overlooked certain things or told Beale some half truths to get him through the door.
Beale was never going to be a long term option. He certainly was never going to give us three years like Warburton.
Getting in Beales mate in Critchley was also asking for trouble regardless of his coaching badges.
I'm not even sure where we are going with Ainsworth either.. L1?
I really hope it works out. He's got some great qualities, I just hope he can get the boys on his side . Recruitment need to get "the right sorts" in for sure. Over to you Ferdinand, Belk and whoever else is responsible for players coming in. [Post edited 23 Mar 2023 18:19]
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| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 18:34 - Mar 23 with 1825 views | daveB |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 15:54 - Mar 23 by traininvain |
Surely the more relevant comparison is where he had QPR finishing compared to what’s happened this season. Upper mid table vs scrapping to avoid relegation. I know which option I prefer.
Not to mention that the football was generally entertaining. End of last season was poor granted but over the course of his reign we were generally a top half team and enjoyable to watch. |
I liked Warburton but he had a gamble on promotion and got nowhere near it in the end so was probably the right things to do last summer in making that change. Easy to say in hindsight now it was the wrong move but no one was saying that back in October.
still think they got that right and that Beale was a good replacement, he was always a flight risk to Rangers but at the time it seemed like that job wouldn't come up until the following summer at the earliest and he did pretty well in his few months, we'll never know if the season would have fallen apart if he had stayed or not. Can see both sides of that argument.
What they got wrong was the transfers last summer partly who they brought in and partly not selling anyone it's left us with a weak squad beyond the first 11 and with several players who have gone a bit stale with us. |  | | |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 19:06 - Mar 23 with 1775 views | traininvain |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 18:34 - Mar 23 by daveB |
I liked Warburton but he had a gamble on promotion and got nowhere near it in the end so was probably the right things to do last summer in making that change. Easy to say in hindsight now it was the wrong move but no one was saying that back in October.
still think they got that right and that Beale was a good replacement, he was always a flight risk to Rangers but at the time it seemed like that job wouldn't come up until the following summer at the earliest and he did pretty well in his few months, we'll never know if the season would have fallen apart if he had stayed or not. Can see both sides of that argument.
What they got wrong was the transfers last summer partly who they brought in and partly not selling anyone it's left us with a weak squad beyond the first 11 and with several players who have gone a bit stale with us. |
Warburton didn’t gamble on anything, the club did and Warburton even rejected the opportunity to sign another striker in the January window. So that’s a bit of a myth that it was all driven by him.
I doubt the budget last season is much different to what it’s been this season with the likes of Roberts, Richards, Balogun, Tim etc. They won’t have been cheap in terms of loan fees and wages.
I agree it’s easier to say with hindsight but Warburton was a safe pair of hands whereas Beale was never going to stick around for long. The club got that decision wrong and imo it’s Ferdinand’s biggest mistake. He’s paid to get those decisions right.
And plenty of our supporters wanted Warburton to stay at the end of last season. As Punter rightly pointed out above, Warburton got a good reception in his last home game and the whole situation was a bit bizarre. | | | |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 21:49 - Mar 23 with 1650 views | joe90 |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 19:06 - Mar 23 by traininvain |
Warburton didn’t gamble on anything, the club did and Warburton even rejected the opportunity to sign another striker in the January window. So that’s a bit of a myth that it was all driven by him.
I doubt the budget last season is much different to what it’s been this season with the likes of Roberts, Richards, Balogun, Tim etc. They won’t have been cheap in terms of loan fees and wages.
I agree it’s easier to say with hindsight but Warburton was a safe pair of hands whereas Beale was never going to stick around for long. The club got that decision wrong and imo it’s Ferdinand’s biggest mistake. He’s paid to get those decisions right.
And plenty of our supporters wanted Warburton to stay at the end of last season. As Punter rightly pointed out above, Warburton got a good reception in his last home game and the whole situation was a bit bizarre. |
Am I right in thinking Warbs brought Gray in but not Austin?
Austin’s second stint was awful, I think that really cost us, in every sense! Gray was better, but still not good enough. I imagine he wasn’t cheap either.
You can get unlucky with players, but if the same issues keep coming up I think it stops being a case of bad luck… | | | |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 21:56 - Mar 23 with 1632 views | traininvain |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 21:49 - Mar 23 by joe90 |
Am I right in thinking Warbs brought Gray in but not Austin?
Austin’s second stint was awful, I think that really cost us, in every sense! Gray was better, but still not good enough. I imagine he wasn’t cheap either.
You can get unlucky with players, but if the same issues keep coming up I think it stops being a case of bad luck… |
Roberts has been even worse than the pair of them! And I doubt he’s much cheaper in terms of wages.
Might be wrong but my understanding is Fernandes wanted Austin and Gray was more of a Warburton signing. | | | |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 22:17 - Mar 23 with 1617 views | daveB |
| Where does Ainsworth go from here? on 19:06 - Mar 23 by traininvain |
Warburton didn’t gamble on anything, the club did and Warburton even rejected the opportunity to sign another striker in the January window. So that’s a bit of a myth that it was all driven by him.
I doubt the budget last season is much different to what it’s been this season with the likes of Roberts, Richards, Balogun, Tim etc. They won’t have been cheap in terms of loan fees and wages.
I agree it’s easier to say with hindsight but Warburton was a safe pair of hands whereas Beale was never going to stick around for long. The club got that decision wrong and imo it’s Ferdinand’s biggest mistake. He’s paid to get those decisions right.
And plenty of our supporters wanted Warburton to stay at the end of last season. As Punter rightly pointed out above, Warburton got a good reception in his last home game and the whole situation was a bit bizarre. |
I never said it was all driven by him but he was the manager at the time and if it had gone well he'd have got all the credit | | | |
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