| Caroline Flack 17:42 - Feb 15 with 9343 views | loftboy |
Found dead at home [Post edited 17 Feb 2020 13:40]
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| Caroline Flack on 07:46 - Feb 20 with 1036 views | The_Beast1976 |
| Caroline Flack on 18:09 - Feb 19 by PunteR |
No it it doesnt align.
You sound like a 12 year old saying i didnt ask to be born. Sorry but as a dad of 3 happy kids i dont agree with your bleak outlook on life.
What makes you think your life is yours to take? [Post edited 19 Feb 2020 18:15]
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Well good for you. Do you want a round of applause?
[Post edited 20 Feb 2020 7:54]
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| Caroline Flack on 08:12 - Feb 20 with 978 views | PunteR |
| Caroline Flack on 07:46 - Feb 20 by The_Beast1976 |
Well good for you. Do you want a round of applause?
[Post edited 20 Feb 2020 7:54]
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No. Just illustrating my situation to help prove its not all doom and gloom. That life is precious so respect it.
Half term nearly finished so back to school for you next week then. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Caroline Flack on 08:20 - Feb 20 with 976 views | The_Beast1976 |
| Caroline Flack on 08:12 - Feb 20 by PunteR |
No. Just illustrating my situation to help prove its not all doom and gloom. That life is precious so respect it.
Half term nearly finished so back to school for you next week then. |
Again, well good for you....although you have proven absolutely bugger all other than what an absolutely lovely, pleasant chap you are.....selfish, ignorant, condescending, judgmental....and now ignored
[Post edited 20 Feb 2020 9:13]
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| Caroline Flack on 10:31 - Feb 20 with 853 views | PunteR |
| Caroline Flack on 08:20 - Feb 20 by The_Beast1976 |
Again, well good for you....although you have proven absolutely bugger all other than what an absolutely lovely, pleasant chap you are.....selfish, ignorant, condescending, judgmental....and now ignored
[Post edited 20 Feb 2020 9:13]
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Homework to do yes? | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Caroline Flack on 12:35 - Feb 20 with 764 views | A40Bosh |
| Caroline Flack on 13:56 - Feb 19 by The_Beast1976 |
For me this post raises a number of interesting points.
"the more vulnerable children and adults see this as permission to take their own life" - Why should anyone need permission to take their own life? We are not brought into this world by choice. Life is forced upon us all without us being asked whether or not we'd like to be here. We are not given a choice about being here, therefore we should be given a choice about when, how and why we want to leave. That should be our choice, nobody else's, and should not require permission
"all my eldest would respond was "but at least for him there is no pain now, he is no longer in pain" - I absolutely agree with what your son said. It is undoubtedly correct.
"For many of us we can rationalise and ask how someone can make that decision and how selfish they have been" - why is it selfish? I just don't see how anyone can say that somebody getting out of a life they never asked to be in in the first place is selfish. What is selfish is the choice of the people bringing you into this world in the first place (i.e. your parents) with little or no thought whatsoever for the fact that ultimately you may not even want to be here.
Whilst there are undoubtedly some good things in life, for many the good things (and some people don't actually have any good things at all in their life) may still not enough to tip the balance the other way enough to outweigh all the bad things encountered in life. For many, life is not the gift others profess it to be; for many life is actually a burden.
"So I will never judge a person, young or old, rich or poor, famous or anonymous" - I think that is the attitude everybody should have. Nobody has the right to judge anybody else for taking their own life.
Finally, just to be clear that this is not a dig at A40Bosh. His/her post is a good one. It just raised a few issues I wanted to comment upon. I am also very sorry to hear about your daughter's problems. I hope she somehow manages to resolve them some day.
RIP Ms Flack. May you now be free and at peace wherever you are [Post edited 19 Feb 2020 17:12]
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Beast as you seem to have had a bit of a scrap with PuntR after responding to my post, I have added a few more comments below for context, as often when I am posting on emotional matters such as this my narrative often meanders between personal thoughts and my assumptions of what I think are/were the accepted 'societal norms' from the perspective of a 52 year old male brought up in West London as the eldest son of working class Irish Catholics immigrants - relevant because it obviously shapes my starting point for how I see the world.
For me this post raises a number of interesting points.
"the more vulnerable children and adults see this as permission to take their own life" - Why should anyone need permission to take their own life? We are not brought into this world by choice. Life is forced upon us all without us being asked whether or not we'd like to be here. We are not given a choice about being here, therefore we should be given a choice about when, how and why we want to leave. That should be our choice, nobody else's, and should not require permission
A40: So it would appear that the word you contest here is my use of "permission". That is not my word but my daughter's words when talking openly about why, at the moment she tells us that although she contemplates suicide she will not do it. She says she cannot give herself permission because although she states that as her parents we would have to cope with it and eventually would, she does not want to 'set an example' to her two younger teenage sisters that it is OK to do this, because as someone posted above, this is not about taking her life, but ending the severe pain. She is not taking this position out of a sense of 'I know my rights, I didn't ask to be here but don't blame me if my sisters then do it', but because of the love she has for her sisters and her parents. A very real and deep love that she says to her counsellors and the medical professionals has helped her to keep going since she was 14, knowing that she is loved by her family and that we won't kick her out when we get fed up of her illness. It is therefore as a result of her not wanting to hurt those around her she loves too. Unfortunately, in a close and loving family, there are much wider implications embedded in our being than simply taking an attitude of "I didn't ask to be here, so I'll decide when to check out", for most people they cannot be that cold in their decision making.
"all my eldest would respond was "but at least for him there is no pain now, he is no longer in pain" - I absolutely agree with what your son said. It is undoubtedly correct.
A40: It's my daughter mate, and as you say, she is absolutely correct and it goes some way to explain as I said in my original post that when the pain gets too much it eventually becomes a simple yes or no answer despite having so much support around you and knowing that it is there and the ramifications of your actions on those around you.
"For many of us we can rationalise and ask how someone can make that decision and how selfish they have been" - why is it selfish? I just don't see how anyone can say that somebody getting out of a life they never asked to be in in the first place is selfish. What is selfish is the choice of the people bringing you into this world in the first place (i.e. your parents) with little or no thought whatsoever for the fact that ultimately you may not even want to be here.
A40: This is difficult to explain, because my use of the word 'selfish' is because often people can say that those who take their own lives are not taking into consideration the impact it has on those around them who love them. And to a certain extent you are correct because none of us actually asked to be here, but your argument that they didn't 'ask to be here' and therefore it is a simply choice if you decide to make it is too simplistic in real life, largely because of what I said above and the thought processes that a person will go through. Otherwise you are just treat parenting as a non emotional reproductive facility for producing robots who can simply switch themselves off if they don't want to be there with no impact on those around you. I watched an interview with Nigel Owens the Welsh Rugby referee and he said that in his 20s when he took an overdose and was close to succeeding with his suicide, his mother came back to him when his family visiters had all left his bed side and said to him "love if you DO decide to do this again and you get it right, then please make sure that however you do it YOU TAKE ME AND YOUR DAD WITH YOU". Now you may call that emotional blackmail but I believe that was said and received as a demonstration of the love that she had for her son and that there would be no point in them living on and I really do get that from a parent perspective, because that is what unconditional love does to parents and to a certain extent it is reciprocated by our children.
Whilst there are undoubtedly some good things in life, for many the good things (and some people don't actually have any good things at all in their life) may still not enough to tip the balance the other way enough to outweigh all the bad things encountered in life. For many, life is not the gift others profess it to be; for many life is actually a burden.
A40: I get that, and for some who have that experience in life they will make their choice and end it all, but again surely we have to do everything we can to try and make it better for those people where we personally encounter it?
"So I will never judge a person, young or old, rich or poor, famous or anonymous" - I think that is the attitude everybody should have. Nobody has the right to judge anybody else for taking their own life.
A40: I agree, but when I see posts on here dismissing the mental health issues of footballers such as Clark Carlisle and others because the perception of if you are a rich footballer then you have no excuse to suffer from mental health, it says to me that some people just don't get that bad mental health has no relation to your social status or wealth or success or age or gender etc.
Finally, just to be clear that this is not a dig at A40Bosh. His/her post is a good one. It just raised a few issues I wanted to comment upon. I am also very sorry to hear about your daughter's problems. I hope she somehow manages to resolve them some day.
A40: I assure you that I did not perceive any dig in your response, the only thing I felt concern over and that I think Puntr picked up on (which got silly very quickly)was a perceived attitude of why we should question suicide decisions based on an assumption that none of us asked to be here so we can check out whenever we choose to, because as I hope I stated above, that is too simplistic an ideal to adopt in a world full of people and families who are too invested emotionally at a very deep level with those around them. I'm not saying it is wrong, just simplistic as we are not robots |  |
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| Caroline Flack on 09:37 - Mar 29 with 578 views | The_Beast1976 |
Given the situation in the world right now, I'd say Ms Flack RIP chose a very good time indeed to check out. Life is not so bloody great now is it 😞 [Post edited 29 Mar 2020 10:01]
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