| Transfer expenditure v League position 08:59 - Feb 15 with 1163 views | MikeyG85 |
This is a good measure of the seasons performance. We were the 9th highest spenders but rank 15th compared to other teams. Look at Millwall and Hull, having fantastic seasons based on low spend. Currently its another disappointing season but arguably this is season worse, we have actually spent lots of money in a low standard division. Player inconsistency and injuries have really had an impact but again this happens every season. We could still finish strong but the rest of Feb with injuried looks very difficult.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.u [Post edited 15 Feb 10:48]
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| Transfer expenditure v League position on 10:40 - Feb 15 with 1017 views | nix |
You can’t just look on one season’s spend. That’s ridiculous and doesn’t give any indication of overall squad value. If anything you’d expect our players to be better next season having adapted to the Championship/gained more experience generally. So Millwall have spent £10 million this season but also £10 million last season and £7 million the season before. So they’re bedding in players and have them more at their peak. Hull spent £30 million last season and £10 million the previous season. I’d also expect that Gyabi and McBurnie are attracting big wages although free transfers snd Gelherdt is also an expensive loan plus high wages situation.
We could also compare ourselves to teams like Leicester, Southampton and Sheffield United who are surely more expensive players but until our recent injury disaster we have been outperforming.
Personally I think it’s fair to examine how we could improve in individual player performance, team strategy and injury record but if you’re comparing money spent you have to look at all aspects including recent past season spend, loan transfers, player experience v potential and wages for free transfers. |  | | |
| Transfer expenditure v League position on 10:48 - Feb 15 with 993 views | MikeyG85 |
Fair points, perhaps comparing to other teams isn’t fair and its a vanity metric. However, have we really improved on last season? The league is weaker this year as well. Injuries obviously have had a big impact. In reality next season is when we should measure this, I just think the poor standard of league means there is an opportunity to push on this year and we haven’t really done it. Previous seaons we have finished in similar positions and spent less. It is a younger squad now, only one loan and needs time. | | | |
| Transfer expenditure v League position on 11:12 - Feb 15 with 932 views | nix |
| Transfer expenditure v League position on 10:48 - Feb 15 by MikeyG85 |
Fair points, perhaps comparing to other teams isn’t fair and its a vanity metric. However, have we really improved on last season? The league is weaker this year as well. Injuries obviously have had a big impact. In reality next season is when we should measure this, I just think the poor standard of league means there is an opportunity to push on this year and we haven’t really done it. Previous seaons we have finished in similar positions and spent less. It is a younger squad now, only one loan and needs time. |
I think we have improved in some aspects. I think we’ve got more pace and physicality. I think Madsen is massively improved. I think Kone and Burrell are out of sight better than our previous striking options. I like Mbengue despite his shortcomings. I think in theory we’ve got a better balanced squad than say two seasons ago. However, losing players to injury is just killing us. If we’d had all of our players available then I can’t see those draws against Stoke and Oxford happening. I don’t think JS would be starting with Saito in such dreadful form.
We can’t keep saying ‘oh we should be doing better as it’s a terrible league this season’. I just don’t think we all had crystal balls that imagined the parachute teams would be quite this bad or teams like WBA, Sheffield Utd and Norwich would start so poorly. And we have to build at some point and go through the growing pains of blooding young players.
Previous seasons we’ve ended up with expensive players who we couldn’t take into the following season having gained nothing - Austin and Johansen being a case in point. I do agree though that next season is the one to judge progress. If we have the same injuries next season and if the players with potential don’t push on then there really will be questions to be answered. | | | |
| Transfer expenditure v League position on 11:26 - Feb 15 with 871 views | charmr |
I’m assuming that everyone is aware Steve Gallen is running the show behind the scenes at Millwall.
A football person who certainly knows this league and the players required. [Post edited 15 Feb 11:42]
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| Transfer expenditure v League position on 12:14 - Feb 15 with 774 views | MikeyG85 |
I agree with the point that this should be a building season and the positive new players. It’s also fine margins in this league, if we beat Wrexham… Also we know just because we lost to Blackburn it doesn’t mean we can’t win at Hull.
The development of Morgan, Kolli, Morrison, Dembele and Saito has been disappointing in my opinion though.
Still 14 games to go, let’s see after a full season. [Post edited 15 Feb 12:22]
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| Transfer expenditure v League position on 12:35 - Feb 15 with 718 views | MikeyG85 |
Overall if you spend 15 million in a weaker league you should expect progress, its been very mixed.
I think we are perhaps caught between development and being close to the playoffs. Important to remember that a number of players are from the league below too. If you are a development squad, why are we starting Cook and Hayden every week.
I think its fair after losing 3-1 at home to Blackburn, Wrexham collapse, Norwich double and general performances since the turn of the year to ask some questions. Perhaps it is just patience thats needed but again if thats the case, the dev players need more minutes and to be improving.
[Post edited 15 Feb 12:44]
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| Transfer expenditure v League position on 13:08 - Feb 15 with 638 views | nix |
| Transfer expenditure v League position on 12:35 - Feb 15 by MikeyG85 |
Overall if you spend 15 million in a weaker league you should expect progress, its been very mixed.
I think we are perhaps caught between development and being close to the playoffs. Important to remember that a number of players are from the league below too. If you are a development squad, why are we starting Cook and Hayden every week.
I think its fair after losing 3-1 at home to Blackburn, Wrexham collapse, Norwich double and general performances since the turn of the year to ask some questions. Perhaps it is just patience thats needed but again if thats the case, the dev players need more minutes and to be improving.
[Post edited 15 Feb 12:44]
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Only if you’re spending more than everyone else and you have an equivalent starting point.
But yes it’s fair to ask some questions. It’s just the questions you are choosing to ask. In my opinion better questions would be about our injury record, state of our pitch and preparation for matches. And yes it’s fair to look at individual transfers to consider VFM. There are certainly some players that have been disappointing. But not saying we should be better because we’ve spent x in one season without taking the other factors I’ve mentioned into account like past seasons’ spend, loans and free transfers, plus potential v current level/player age. | | | |
| Transfer expenditure v League position on 13:22 - Feb 15 with 580 views | 1JD |
| Transfer expenditure v League position on 13:08 - Feb 15 by nix |
Only if you’re spending more than everyone else and you have an equivalent starting point.
But yes it’s fair to ask some questions. It’s just the questions you are choosing to ask. In my opinion better questions would be about our injury record, state of our pitch and preparation for matches. And yes it’s fair to look at individual transfers to consider VFM. There are certainly some players that have been disappointing. But not saying we should be better because we’ve spent x in one season without taking the other factors I’ve mentioned into account like past seasons’ spend, loans and free transfers, plus potential v current level/player age. |
We spent at least 8m last season as well. Transfer spend is pushing nearly 25m over two seasons - a massive outlay for this club, not seen at any level in recent seasons. So these are the right questions to be asking.
Also the idea that we are bedding in young players is somewhat driven by the club PR. It was true last season (out of necessity) and was it was true in the first game line up. But hasn’t really been seen since. Looking at our average age line up, it’s middling championship fare. Most clubs have gone a bit younger in recent years to the 24-26 range as it’s the only way to drive a player trading model and build. So it’s all relative.
Additionally, on this subject, Morgan and Kolli hardly ever play. Which is a big question in its own right for a supposed development club. And if they aren’t going to play, why arent they racking up games and maturing whilst on loan? | | | |
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| Transfer expenditure v League position on 13:49 - Feb 15 with 524 views | nix |
| Transfer expenditure v League position on 13:22 - Feb 15 by 1JD |
We spent at least 8m last season as well. Transfer spend is pushing nearly 25m over two seasons - a massive outlay for this club, not seen at any level in recent seasons. So these are the right questions to be asking.
Also the idea that we are bedding in young players is somewhat driven by the club PR. It was true last season (out of necessity) and was it was true in the first game line up. But hasn’t really been seen since. Looking at our average age line up, it’s middling championship fare. Most clubs have gone a bit younger in recent years to the 24-26 range as it’s the only way to drive a player trading model and build. So it’s all relative.
Additionally, on this subject, Morgan and Kolli hardly ever play. Which is a big question in its own right for a supposed development club. And if they aren’t going to play, why arent they racking up games and maturing whilst on loan? |
I’m not saying we’ve not spent a lot. I’m saying we’ve not particularly spent a lot compared to other clubs, which was the OP.
If everybody has the same money to invest then it’s pointless to say we’ve spent a lot so we should be better than the others. And we have spent £25 million whereas other clubs have invested £40 million. Why should we be better than them? Also you are not taking into account loans or transfers. Another thing is if you have a club like Wrexham that have invested a lot in established players like Windass, Moore, Rathbone, Shaef, O’Brien and Vyner and expensive loans from Prem clubs like Kabore you’re going to get a quicker return on your investment than getting in younger players.
Of course you can ask whatever questions you like. But it’s not a meaningful picture unless you compare apples with apples. | | | |
| Transfer expenditure v League position on 14:59 - Feb 15 with 452 views | 1JD |
| Transfer expenditure v League position on 13:49 - Feb 15 by nix |
I’m not saying we’ve not spent a lot. I’m saying we’ve not particularly spent a lot compared to other clubs, which was the OP.
If everybody has the same money to invest then it’s pointless to say we’ve spent a lot so we should be better than the others. And we have spent £25 million whereas other clubs have invested £40 million. Why should we be better than them? Also you are not taking into account loans or transfers. Another thing is if you have a club like Wrexham that have invested a lot in established players like Windass, Moore, Rathbone, Shaef, O’Brien and Vyner and expensive loans from Prem clubs like Kabore you’re going to get a quicker return on your investment than getting in younger players.
Of course you can ask whatever questions you like. But it’s not a meaningful picture unless you compare apples with apples. |
Fans are rightly comparing us to Millwall - a club of similar size, transfer outlay, and London profile - not the likes of Ipswich. In the last two seasons, we have spent more than Millwall, but find ourselves behind them, whilst they consolidate top 6.
If you are being kind, we are averaging out on transfers and league position. Trouble is, we’ll go nowhere with that, as seen with Les. What we need is significant outperformance compared to our competitive peers. And that’s exactly the job Nourry has taken on and needs to deliver on if we are to progress. | | | |
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