| Palestine 14:20 - Jul 11 with 49270 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
When are Israel going to stop bombing the f@k out of Palestine murdering innocent children .
No condemnation from our government .
It must be to do with the multi millions of pounds given to the government for weapons by the dreadful zionists in charge of their state . |  |
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| Palestine on 14:58 - Jul 18 with 986 views | reddythered |
| Palestine on 14:48 - Jul 18 by Lord_Bony |
FFs you are getting real hard work now and my head is starting to hurt a little.
This new war was started over 3 kids who got killed a few weeks ago.
Instead of Israel dealing with it with the help of international law and bring the perpetrators to justice they instead decide to autonomously just bomb Gaza city to smithereens knowing full well there is going to be a lot of women and kids killed.
If Hamas had launched some invasion with troops into Israel then I would agree to this but
that was not the case it all stems from 3 murdered Israelis...that is not enough reason to retaliate in this manner...no other country in the world would do this and get away with it ...its not right.
Now on top of this they are about to illegally invade Palestine. Their leaders are animals,they are not fighting terrorists they are fighting women and children. [Post edited 18 Jul 2014 14:49]
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Was it? Or were the three kids murdered ( not got killed as you nicely termed it ) the tipping point after months of rockets?
International law. Hmm. Ok, since you're bringing that up, care to point out exactly how "international law" would help? Some kind of arrest warrant?
Rockets into Israel every day are perfectly fine. Putting troops in there, how nasty. That's what they've recently done ( and in the past ) via the tunnels.
Palestine? Again, Gaza is not Palestine nor is Palestine Gaza. Which bit of that is difficult to understand? Hamas do not speak for every Palestinian. They control Gaza. This is why you conveniently ignore the differences between the West Bank and Gaza.
Autonomously bomb Gaza city? Or aim for targets? If there was intended to be indiscriminate murder of Gaza citizens, well the figures would be higher. Fact. Any death is a tragedy but it's utter garbage to deliberately and cynically look to one side rather than spending the time to learn the full facts of the region, the mindsets, the politics. That does an utter dis-service to every single casuality.
The fact is, to you and others Israel is the evil, will always be the evil. Nothing will ever change your mind on that score.
The reality is that wrong is done on both sides; to romanticise Hamas as freedom fighters completely distorts and excuses what is really happening.
When Hamas were using suicide bombers in Israel, the targets were toy shops, hospitals and universities specifically within regions where Israel-Arab integration had successfully occured. If you can't even take a second to wonder why Hamas were doing that... then you'll never have a clear picture.
Fighting women and children? An utterly laughable claim. [Post edited 18 Jul 2014 15:03]
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| Palestine on 15:09 - Jul 18 with 965 views | Lord_Bony |
So these rockets fired into Israel then...how many have been recently killed? answer ..just one ! These rockets are getting launched because the people are pissed off at being terrorized and having their land stolen along with the Israeli blockade of the Gaza strip which stops anything going in or out.... even Nick Clegg has voiced concerns over this disproportionate response.
"Israel's bombardment of the Gaza Strip in retaliation for militant rocket attacks on its territory amounts to a "deliberately disproportionate form of collective punishment", Nick Clegg has said. The deputy prime minister's comments are among the most critical of Israel from a Western leader since the current crisis began.
"Clegg urged the Israeli government to stop military strikes on the densely-populated Palestinian enclave, where officials say the death toll from the 10-day battle has reached 222, with 1,670 injured. One Israeli civilian has also died in the conflict." [Post edited 18 Jul 2014 15:13]
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| Palestine on 15:28 - Jul 18 with 953 views | Flashberryjack |
| Palestine on 15:09 - Jul 18 by Lord_Bony |
So these rockets fired into Israel then...how many have been recently killed? answer ..just one ! These rockets are getting launched because the people are pissed off at being terrorized and having their land stolen along with the Israeli blockade of the Gaza strip which stops anything going in or out.... even Nick Clegg has voiced concerns over this disproportionate response.
"Israel's bombardment of the Gaza Strip in retaliation for militant rocket attacks on its territory amounts to a "deliberately disproportionate form of collective punishment", Nick Clegg has said. The deputy prime minister's comments are among the most critical of Israel from a Western leader since the current crisis began.
"Clegg urged the Israeli government to stop military strikes on the densely-populated Palestinian enclave, where officials say the death toll from the 10-day battle has reached 222, with 1,670 injured. One Israeli civilian has also died in the conflict." [Post edited 18 Jul 2014 15:13]
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Nick Clegg FFS........you're really scraping the barrel now. |  |
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| Palestine on 15:34 - Jul 18 with 950 views | Lord_Bony |
| Palestine on 15:28 - Jul 18 by Flashberryjack |
Nick Clegg FFS........you're really scraping the barrel now. |
Not the best example I know but I m just trying to add some credence to these figures thats all... | |
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| Palestine on 15:41 - Jul 18 with 942 views | reddythered |
| Palestine on 15:09 - Jul 18 by Lord_Bony |
So these rockets fired into Israel then...how many have been recently killed? answer ..just one ! These rockets are getting launched because the people are pissed off at being terrorized and having their land stolen along with the Israeli blockade of the Gaza strip which stops anything going in or out.... even Nick Clegg has voiced concerns over this disproportionate response.
"Israel's bombardment of the Gaza Strip in retaliation for militant rocket attacks on its territory amounts to a "deliberately disproportionate form of collective punishment", Nick Clegg has said. The deputy prime minister's comments are among the most critical of Israel from a Western leader since the current crisis began.
"Clegg urged the Israeli government to stop military strikes on the densely-populated Palestinian enclave, where officials say the death toll from the 10-day battle has reached 222, with 1,670 injured. One Israeli civilian has also died in the conflict." [Post edited 18 Jul 2014 15:13]
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How many would be killed without Iron Dome in place? Granted that's a hypothetical.
Nice to see you're able to research the comments of Clegg who basically is a political non-entity... even within his own party seemingly. Maybe you can research the questions I asked you which are still being inconveniently ignored. | |
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| Palestine on 15:52 - Jul 18 with 939 views | Lord_Bony |
What about the many points I have put to you in this thread that you have ignored?
I don t know what you want me to answer, I m not an expert on the Middle East just an average football fan and neither are you .... but I really should get back to work now....feck my head.....
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| Palestine on 16:10 - Jul 18 with 930 views | Davillin |
This is purely a question. I'm not in the discussion generally. I wonder who much credence we can put into the Israeli numbers of people killed by rockets from Gaza. "Don't encourage them by reporting their success," for example.
I remember full well the disinformation the British government gave to the Nazis about the accuracy of their rockets, in order to put them off. Same tactics book, different page, perhaps? |  |
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| Palestine (n/t) on 16:27 - Jul 18 with 920 views | Lord_Bony |
[Post edited 18 Jul 2014 16:29]
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| Palestine on 16:28 - Jul 18 with 919 views | reddythered |
| Palestine on 15:52 - Jul 18 by Lord_Bony |
What about the many points I have put to you in this thread that you have ignored?
I don t know what you want me to answer, I m not an expert on the Middle East just an average football fan and neither are you .... but I really should get back to work now....feck my head.....
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You've put general facile points. As if it's some kind of video game where dead killed is the only some factor.
You've clearly displayed you're not an expert. You know zero of the overall situation other than handy copy and paste factoids.
Some of us actually give a s*** about long term peace in the region; fatuous "ooooh, Israel alone should do this then everything will be dandy" is complete and utter b***ocks, disrespecting the dead. | |
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| Palestine on 16:34 - Jul 18 with 915 views | Lord_Bony |
OMG
You really are a plonker.
If only you realised how much the people of the world want peace there and you have demonstrated to me what a one sided bigoted tw*t you are.
You THINK you know it all but I can assure you ,you dont ,
Now do us a favour and p.ss off back to the AAMB where you belong.
If you want to bring it down to personal insults just get the feck out of here ok? | |
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| Palestine on 16:41 - Jul 18 with 908 views | JackFish |
| Palestine on 16:28 - Jul 18 by reddythered |
You've put general facile points. As if it's some kind of video game where dead killed is the only some factor.
You've clearly displayed you're not an expert. You know zero of the overall situation other than handy copy and paste factoids.
Some of us actually give a s*** about long term peace in the region; fatuous "ooooh, Israel alone should do this then everything will be dandy" is complete and utter b***ocks, disrespecting the dead. |
How will there ever be peace in the region while one side is continually treated as second-class citizens? |  | | |
| Palestine on 16:51 - Jul 18 with 894 views | reddythered |
| Palestine on 16:34 - Jul 18 by Lord_Bony |
OMG
You really are a plonker.
If only you realised how much the people of the world want peace there and you have demonstrated to me what a one sided bigoted tw*t you are.
You THINK you know it all but I can assure you ,you dont ,
Now do us a favour and p.ss off back to the AAMB where you belong.
If you want to bring it down to personal insults just get the feck out of here ok? |
AAMB? Now there's an insult.
One sided bigot? Stop being dumb. I condemn Israel where it is deserved. You on the other hand know nothing about the reality of the situation. You know nothing of the politics of the region or indeed internal Palestinian politics.
Until those are addressed - and Hamas need to recognise the existence of Israel for one - there will never be peace.
You can't even answer simple questions; stick to the polemic 6th form style politics. | |
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| Palestine on 16:53 - Jul 18 with 891 views | perchrockjack |
Seems Im with reddy and is the norm it seems anyone not wanting to to take the Palastinian view is hammered.
No need to nail him Bony as it was pretty mild stuff.
Fact is BOTH sides cannot be tristed to exercise restraint. Hamas will no doubt retaliate aided by their Arab chums and the blame will come back to Israel for being the aggressor.
Both sides are pitifully bigoted and that s the truth | |
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| Palestine on 16:57 - Jul 18 with 891 views | reddythered |
| Palestine on 16:41 - Jul 18 by JackFish |
How will there ever be peace in the region while one side is continually treated as second-class citizens? |
Is that how Israeli Arabs are treated for example? After all, that would be at odds with the general view of Israel after all.
How can there ever be peace when one powerful faction - Hamas - who speak for Gaza, not the West Bank et al refuse to recognise Israel's existence and indeed, in their covenant use the usual abhorent "Jewish conspiracy / rule the world / Protocols of the Elders of Zion" bs?
The only chance for peace is a two state solution as I've said before. I've also said the only chance for that to happen is for Hamas to be removed from the equation.
It might also interest you to see how Palestinians are treated in other Arab nations. In some, they are unable to get passports for example. That's why the whole "Jew vs Arab" stereotype is ridiculously simplistic.
I've every sympathy for the ordinary Palestinian, from West Bank, Gaza, wherever. They've through the decades been systematically used as pawns by certain Arab nations as a stick to beat Israel with and sold down the river by their own leaders - the corruption of Fatah, the radicalisation and violence of Hamas. They truly deserve leaders with their best interests at heart, leaders actively wanting peace, committing to peace. | |
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| Palestine on 17:05 - Jul 18 with 883 views | perchrockjack |
I hope you hate the macdonald culture reddy. If you do, we could be chums | |
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| Palestine on 17:09 - Jul 18 with 881 views | Brockley_Jack |
Have a read up on Palestinians in Jordan. Black September. Wherever they go they are the same. |  | | |
| Palestine on 17:34 - Jul 18 with 864 views | reddythered |
| Palestine on 17:05 - Jul 18 by perchrockjack |
I hope you hate the macdonald culture reddy. If you do, we could be chums |
Love Big Macs. The rib thingies they used to do were nice.
Their fries suck though. Burger King fries much nicer.
Then again, pre match ritual is a doner kebab at midday whilst being sober. | |
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| Palestine on 17:37 - Jul 18 with 862 views | reddythered |
| Palestine on 17:09 - Jul 18 by Brockley_Jack |
Have a read up on Palestinians in Jordan. Black September. Wherever they go they are the same. |
Black September didn't represent the ordinary Palestinian in the street any more than Hamas do.
Extreme fanatics driven by hate, wanting violence rather than peace.
No offence, imo your post is out of order, stereotyping all Paestinians that way. That's as bad as the base stereotyping of Jews. | |
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| Palestine on 17:45 - Jul 18 with 858 views | Brockley_Jack |
Have a read up of them in the Lebanon then.
When their own brother Muslim and Arab cannot stand you what hope is there that poor Christians and Jews in the region can? | | | |
| Palestine on 17:49 - Jul 18 with 855 views | JackFish |
| Palestine on 16:57 - Jul 18 by reddythered |
Is that how Israeli Arabs are treated for example? After all, that would be at odds with the general view of Israel after all.
How can there ever be peace when one powerful faction - Hamas - who speak for Gaza, not the West Bank et al refuse to recognise Israel's existence and indeed, in their covenant use the usual abhorent "Jewish conspiracy / rule the world / Protocols of the Elders of Zion" bs?
The only chance for peace is a two state solution as I've said before. I've also said the only chance for that to happen is for Hamas to be removed from the equation.
It might also interest you to see how Palestinians are treated in other Arab nations. In some, they are unable to get passports for example. That's why the whole "Jew vs Arab" stereotype is ridiculously simplistic.
I've every sympathy for the ordinary Palestinian, from West Bank, Gaza, wherever. They've through the decades been systematically used as pawns by certain Arab nations as a stick to beat Israel with and sold down the river by their own leaders - the corruption of Fatah, the radicalisation and violence of Hamas. They truly deserve leaders with their best interests at heart, leaders actively wanting peace, committing to peace. |
What relevance do Israeli Arabs have to how Israel treats Palestinians? How about how they treat the Bedouin, or is it only minorities that suit your argument that you're aware of?
What happens every time the PLO and Israel enter negotiations? They break down, because Israel refuses to recognise the state of Palestine, refuses to stop building new settlements, then punishes Palestine by announcing yet another round of settlement building.
Have you completely forgotten that thousands of Palestinians were kicked out of their homeland by the Jews in the first place. Christ, it's hardly surprising that they're going to the militant in that situation is it?
When did I mention Jews vs. Arabs anyway? I didn't. I mentioned Israeli treatment of Palestine. | | | |
| Palestine on 17:52 - Jul 18 with 848 views | reddythered |
| Palestine on 17:45 - Jul 18 by Brockley_Jack |
Have a read up of them in the Lebanon then.
When their own brother Muslim and Arab cannot stand you what hope is there that poor Christians and Jews in the region can? |
I'm well aware of the factional in fighting.
My point is they do not represent the average Palestinian. Generalising all Palestinians are thus bad is wrong.
Found an interesting transcript from the Palestinian envoy to the UN Human Rights Committee made last week, shows that the situation isn't clearcut.
TV Interviewer: The popular demand is to appeal to the International Criminal Court, and to sign the Rome Statute. The demand is to do this immediately. To what extent is this realistic? You are our representative in all the international organizations. What can we gain from such a step, and could we ourselves be indicted?
Ibrahim Khreisheh: I am not a candidate in any Palestinian elections, so I don't need to win popularity among the Palestinians. The missiles that are now being launched against Israel — each and every missile constitutes a crime against humanity, whether it hits or it misses, because it is directed at civilian targets. What Israel does against Palestinian civilians also constitutes crimes against humanity. OK? With regard to crimes of war under the Fourth Geneva Convention - the settlements, the Judaization, the checkpoints, the arrests, and so on — we find ourselves on very solid ground. [JW: Sounds plausible to me.] However, there is a Palestinian weakness with regard to the other issue. Therefore, targeting civilians — be it one civilian or a thousand - is considered a crime against humanity.
Interviewer: That is why Israel resorted to an attack against Gaza ...
Ibrahim Khreisheh: Appealing to the ICC requires a consensus, in writing, by all Palestinian factions, so when a Palestinian is arrested for his involvement in the killing of an Israeli civilian, we will not be blamed for extraditing him. Please note that many of our people in Gaza appeared on TV and said that the Israeli army warned them to evacuate their homes before the bombardment. In such a case, if someone is killed, the law considers it a mistake rather than an intentional killing. because (the Israelis) followed the legal procedures. As for the missiles launched from our side ... We never warn anyone about where these missiles are about to fall, or about the operations we carry out. Therefore, people should know more before they talk emotionally about appealing to the ICC.
The above would indicate that Israel are actually acting legally. There's an argument about necessarily being ethical, but...
What it shows is that the whole "use international law to deal with murderers of the 3 Israelis" is incorrect. Aside from not having been arrested, I'd doubt Hamas would agree for anyone to be extradicted to Israel.
Whereas the alleged murderers of the Palestinian are in court, facing a full court trial in accordance with the due process of law. | |
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| Palestine on 17:56 - Jul 18 with 845 views | Brockley_Jack |
Hamas are clearly a racist nationalist party. They use murder, torture and intimidation against anyone who stands up against them. I bet they murdered and tortured more Palestinians than they have Israelis.
Whats your take on the welsh defence league or further afield the bnp? | | | |
| Palestine on 18:04 - Jul 18 with 841 views | reddythered |
| Palestine on 17:49 - Jul 18 by JackFish |
What relevance do Israeli Arabs have to how Israel treats Palestinians? How about how they treat the Bedouin, or is it only minorities that suit your argument that you're aware of?
What happens every time the PLO and Israel enter negotiations? They break down, because Israel refuses to recognise the state of Palestine, refuses to stop building new settlements, then punishes Palestine by announcing yet another round of settlement building.
Have you completely forgotten that thousands of Palestinians were kicked out of their homeland by the Jews in the first place. Christ, it's hardly surprising that they're going to the militant in that situation is it?
When did I mention Jews vs. Arabs anyway? I didn't. I mentioned Israeli treatment of Palestine. |
Bedouin have been granted Israeli citizenship. Get free education and medical services, child benefit. Unemployment is high, which is why industrial zones are being built.
Now, if you're making a point about the relocation of some, it's arguable. Most of those live in unrecognised villages, which simply don't fit in with the local infrastructures or are located on unsuitable places like landfills.
PLO? Under Arafat they broke down for various reasons, mostly because he believed Arab nations would ride in to help him lead them to a glorious victory to cement his legacy. PLO was certainly Fatah controlled/dominated, their excesses led to the rise of Hamas. Under the Oslo accords, Israel recognises the PLO as represeting Palestinians, asking a state of Palestine to be recognised before full and frank discussions have taken place as to how that state will be constituted, ie a two state solution, is silly. Agree on the settlement point.
Based on displacement, well then Jews should be permanently militant given the history of disaporas. To be fair, virtually all of this problem has been caused by Britain; everyone bar Jews were allowed into the region during the mandate in the 1910s. That exacerbated things a fair bit. The whole displacement thing will never be resolved.
Define Palestine. Gaza or the West Bank? Both are completely different situations. When Israel is the commonality, you then have to ask where the problem really lies. | |
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| Palestine on 18:06 - Jul 18 with 838 views | reddythered |
| Palestine on 17:56 - Jul 18 by Brockley_Jack |
Hamas are clearly a racist nationalist party. They use murder, torture and intimidation against anyone who stands up against them. I bet they murdered and tortured more Palestinians than they have Israelis.
Whats your take on the welsh defence league or further afield the bnp? |
Utterly agree about Hamas.
WDL/BNP? Scumbags. Doesn't make everyone Welsh or British scumbags due to a minority. | |
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| Palestine on 18:16 - Jul 18 with 829 views | Brockley_Jack |
Surely they are just people who are peacefully protesting about their country being occupied by foreigners?
Laid alongside Palestinians they are very tame don't you think? | | | |
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