| Murder or manslaughter? on 18:40 - Jul 29 with 1027 views | dickythorpe |
Very odd verdict Dar. Sickening. |  | |  |
| Murder or manslaughter? on 18:47 - Jul 29 with 1004 views | perchrockjack |
Boils down to Simple. Intent .or recklessness. Couldn't be proven. Amazing |  |
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| Murder or manslaughter? on 18:48 - Jul 29 with 998 views | JackoBoostardo |
To convict for murder, there has to be (in the eyes of the jury and the judge) unequivocal belief that the death was pre-meditated (intended and planned).
However, if there is any doubt or it is argued the intention of the alleged offender was not to murder the victim, then this is manslaughter.
If you beat a baby, and the baby dies as a result - In my eyes it's murder (afterall, you've made a decision to beat a very fragile person who is at a high risk of fatal injuries). The British justice system however is retarded in its approach to this, and it is often too easy to please insanity or mental affliction too!
Another thing that really boils my pi55 is the fact that he'll only serve half his sentence if he keeps his nose clean inside. I hope he get's stabbed and boiled alive!
Beat a baby to death? I'd love a fukkin room with the c*nt for 10 minutes! |  |
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| Murder or manslaughter? on 19:05 - Jul 29 with 986 views | exiledclaseboy |
Manslaughter charge is often a safer bet for a conviction because the proseuction doesn't have to prove intent. |  |
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| Murder or manslaughter? on 19:22 - Jul 29 with 968 views | perchrockjack |
True Andrew but sheer recklessness as to consequences of a deliberate assault is a ploy. For an adult to inflict such injuries on a. Baby is basic recklessness. Just what Was he doing?giving it a smack or two.sickening and I've seen too much of it | |
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| Murder or manslaughter? on 19:27 - Jul 29 with 967 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Murder or manslaughter? on 19:22 - Jul 29 by perchrockjack |
True Andrew but sheer recklessness as to consequences of a deliberate assault is a ploy. For an adult to inflict such injuries on a. Baby is basic recklessness. Just what Was he doing?giving it a smack or two.sickening and I've seen too much of it |
I don't want to think too hard about it to be honest. I can't for the life of me get my head around how or why someone would do that to a baby. | |
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| Murder or manslaughter? on 19:33 - Jul 29 with 955 views | perchrockjack |
They do it out of frustration or anger. I've been involved in cases when the mum ha been called back from a night out because her kid had colic. She was pissed, came back, kid cried ,she hit him and killed him with her shoe. She got 8 years that s eight years because she had several other kids and had a Kung solicitor who argued she was now full of remorse.
Very kids are more at risk from parents than paedos by some distance | |
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| Murder or manslaughter? on 19:36 - Jul 29 with 953 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Murder or manslaughter? on 19:33 - Jul 29 by perchrockjack |
They do it out of frustration or anger. I've been involved in cases when the mum ha been called back from a night out because her kid had colic. She was pissed, came back, kid cried ,she hit him and killed him with her shoe. She got 8 years that s eight years because she had several other kids and had a Kung solicitor who argued she was now full of remorse.
Very kids are more at risk from parents than paedos by some distance |
I can sort of understand new parents without much extended family support faced with a constantly crying baby coming to the end of their tether. But this bloke looked after the kid for two hours while the mother went on her first night out since having him. He's just a c*nt. | |
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| Murder or manslaughter? on 19:48 - Jul 29 with 944 views | perchrockjack |
There s a difference between losing patience and hitting a child senseless and to do it repeatedly.sadly the kids were unwanted in the first place | |
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| Murder or manslaughter? on 19:48 - Jul 29 with 946 views | Catullus |
I have never hit my son. Lost my rag a few times and shouted. But beat a defenceless baby?
This is murder to me. | |
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| Murder or manslaughter? on 19:50 - Jul 29 with 938 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Murder or manslaughter? on 19:48 - Jul 29 by perchrockjack |
There s a difference between losing patience and hitting a child senseless and to do it repeatedly.sadly the kids were unwanted in the first place |
Neither is acceptable but I take your point and agree. It's never ok to hit a kid, whether in frustration or to "discipline" them. In my opinion.
Other opinions are available. But they'd be wrong. | |
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| Murder or manslaughter? on 19:51 - Jul 29 with 932 views | perchrockjack |
It is if you use such force as you would against an adult. It's not smacking, it's fisting ,hitting with an instrument or with an implement.
We may have lost our temper but difference is these knots often do it regularly .
It ain't easy to arrest them without giving them a dig. I never laid a finger on these types as a barrister would have used it as a defensive tool | |
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| Murder or manslaughter? on 21:24 - Jul 29 with 893 views | Catullus |
Do we have "negligent homicide" in the UK? I believe they still do stateside. It is a better option than manslaughter.
He treated the baby negligently and killed her. | |
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| Murder or manslaughter? on 21:27 - Jul 29 with 882 views | JackoBoostardo |
| Murder or manslaughter? on 21:24 - Jul 29 by Catullus |
Do we have "negligent homicide" in the UK? I believe they still do stateside. It is a better option than manslaughter.
He treated the baby negligently and killed her. |
Negligence is leaving the child at home when going to the pub.
Beating a child to death is as it is. [Post edited 29 Jul 2014 21:28]
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| Murder or manslaughter? on 22:35 - Jul 29 with 833 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Murder or manslaughter? on 21:27 - Jul 29 by JackoBoostardo |
Negligence is leaving the child at home when going to the pub.
Beating a child to death is as it is. [Post edited 29 Jul 2014 21:28]
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It's quite unbelievable. He hit the child 10 times. And he was texting the mother in between to say he was sleeping. Even the CPS should have been able to make a murder charge stick |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Murder or manslaughter? on 22:47 - Jul 29 with 821 views | Gowerjack |
So he went and found a plastic bottle and a shoe to beat a six week old baby with but the court coudn't prove intent?
I'm appalled. |  |
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| Murder or manslaughter? on 22:54 - Jul 29 with 803 views | JackoBoostardo |
| Murder or manslaughter? on 22:47 - Jul 29 by Gowerjack |
So he went and found a plastic bottle and a shoe to beat a six week old baby with but the court coudn't prove intent?
I'm appalled. |
What a country we live in eh?!
Sickening! | |
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| Murder or manslaughter? on 23:45 - Jul 29 with 778 views | Davillin |
| Murder or manslaughter? on 22:47 - Jul 29 by Gowerjack |
So he went and found a plastic bottle and a shoe to beat a six week old baby with but the court coudn't prove intent?
I'm appalled. |
I am NOT defending him. The "intent" is to cause death, not just to beat someone -- even a child. However, depending on the state, a jury can can be charged by the judge that they may find "intent" from the actions of the defendant, even though he does not say that he intended death.
A note about law in the States: Each state has its own legal system, including statues about crimes and other court-related matters. They are generally fairly similar to each other. The Federal government also has its own legal system, including statues about crimes, etc.
Catullus is correct about negligent homicide. [Post edited 29 Jul 2014 23:49]
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| Murder or manslaughter? on 08:49 - Jul 30 with 728 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Murder or manslaughter? on 23:45 - Jul 29 by Davillin |
I am NOT defending him. The "intent" is to cause death, not just to beat someone -- even a child. However, depending on the state, a jury can can be charged by the judge that they may find "intent" from the actions of the defendant, even though he does not say that he intended death.
A note about law in the States: Each state has its own legal system, including statues about crimes and other court-related matters. They are generally fairly similar to each other. The Federal government also has its own legal system, including statues about crimes, etc.
Catullus is correct about negligent homicide. [Post edited 29 Jul 2014 23:49]
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A child could try to run away or shout for help. As this involved a baby who could do neither. Perhaps there's a case for a change in the law that any violent acts committed against babies which lead to their deaths should be a full on murder charge. Because even if the perpetrator doesn't mean to kill the infant the mere fact that beating a defenceless baby isn't going to exactly enrich their lives?
Not having a go at you Dav just think that the law isn't covering all bases and justice hasn't been done today. | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Murder or manslaughter? on 09:17 - Jul 30 with 718 views | Le_Swans |
The fact it took the Jury 8 days of deliberation to come up with the verdict would suggest that a few of them thought murder, a unanimous decision would have been asked at first then maybe a 10 - 2 or even just majority as the days went on. (EDIT: Just read up that it was a 10-2)
Like people have said, a lot of what the jurors would have based their decision on would be the wording, deliberate, intent to kill etc., the judge would have made this clear to them before their deliberations and the importance of being 100% on their decision.
I've done jury service before on a murder / manslaughter case and you are told regardless of how hard it is to try and keep any emotions out of it and base it on the facts at hand, unfortunately in this case the prosecution hasn't appeared to have done a great job in proving any intent to kill the baby, which is a shame, and as someone else has mentioned perhaps the laws need looking at. [Post edited 30 Jul 2014 10:42]
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| Murder or manslaughter? on 10:03 - Jul 30 with 700 views | Catullus |
| Murder or manslaughter? on 09:17 - Jul 30 by Le_Swans |
The fact it took the Jury 8 days of deliberation to come up with the verdict would suggest that a few of them thought murder, a unanimous decision would have been asked at first then maybe a 10 - 2 or even just majority as the days went on. (EDIT: Just read up that it was a 10-2)
Like people have said, a lot of what the jurors would have based their decision on would be the wording, deliberate, intent to kill etc., the judge would have made this clear to them before their deliberations and the importance of being 100% on their decision.
I've done jury service before on a murder / manslaughter case and you are told regardless of how hard it is to try and keep any emotions out of it and base it on the facts at hand, unfortunately in this case the prosecution hasn't appeared to have done a great job in proving any intent to kill the baby, which is a shame, and as someone else has mentioned perhaps the laws need looking at. [Post edited 30 Jul 2014 10:42]
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Could they have charged him with manslaughter and child abuse and had the sentences run consecutively?
And just having looked up the sentences for his crime under child abuse, 26 weeks to 2 years maximum. Its crazy. | |
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| Murder or manslaughter? on 10:14 - Jul 30 with 686 views | JJJack |
Daz, you compared what McCormick did as equivalent to murder. Which was barmy IMO though some agreed with you.
This kunt is on a whole different level and should clearly not see the light of day again. It's genuinely disturbing that he'll soon be free and will almost certainly repeat his actions. |  | | |
| Murder or manslaughter? on 10:26 - Jul 30 with 675 views | Catullus |
| Murder or manslaughter? on 10:14 - Jul 30 by JJJack |
Daz, you compared what McCormick did as equivalent to murder. Which was barmy IMO though some agreed with you.
This kunt is on a whole different level and should clearly not see the light of day again. It's genuinely disturbing that he'll soon be free and will almost certainly repeat his actions. |
I agree entirely. And some people forget, a prison sentence isn't just about punishment, it helps keep the rest of us safe.
And if there is one section of society we should be extra cautious with, it's our children. In my opinion, obviously. | |
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| Murder or manslaughter? on 10:35 - Jul 30 with 659 views | Le_Swans |
According to the CPS guidelines on manslaughter he could get 10 years to life;
"Low degree of provocation: Sentence Range: 10 years - life
A low degree of provocation occurring over a short period Starting Point - 12 years custody"
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/manslaughter_provocation/
Hopefully the judge gives him the maximum when the sentencing happens. | | | |
| Murder or manslaughter? on 10:38 - Jul 30 with 657 views | Curcubita_Ultra |
My jaw dropped to the floor when I read this on BBC News yesterday. Manslaughter not murder for deliberately beating a six week baby to death? Never mind locking the f#ker up he should be dancing in.mid air at the end of a rope. This countrys f#ked beyond hope... | | | |
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