| Brexiters, why? 12:51 - Apr 22 with 28377 views | the_oracle |
When are the Brexiters going to be honest about the reason they want out?
By any objective view business says stay in. Support from the IMF, CBI big businesses like BT vodaphone, Marks and Spencers, BAE, Easy Jet etc etc. World leader say stay in to protect our position as a world power, to hold the EU together, prevent conflict etc. Unions cite worker’s protection as a reason to stay in. All the main parties support in, the Treasury says in. There are warnings from EU leaders that if we are not part of the club we will have serious problems.
I have not heard a single cogent reason, financially, to get out. Kate Hoey one of the Brexit leaders embarrassingly couldn’t site a single report saying why we would be better off. A few politicians led by Boris and Farage are for out. That’s it. There is no clear explanation of what happens next from them, they just don’t seem to know.
Everything seems to point to the view that “remain” is right.
So be honest, Brexiters, is it immigration?
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| Brexiters, why? on 21:32 - Apr 26 with 2715 views | Gowerjack |
| Brexiters, why? on 14:39 - Apr 26 by Davillin |
And you don't know what you're talking about. Butt the f**k out. |
Cheers! |  |
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| Brexiters, why? on 22:00 - Apr 26 with 2696 views | Loyal |
| Brexiters, why? on 21:32 - Apr 26 by Gowerjack |
Cheers! |
 |  |
| Nolan sympathiser, clout expert, personal friend of Leigh Dineen, advocate and enforcer of porridge swallows.
The official inventor of the tit w@nk. | | Poll: | Who should be Swansea number 1 |
| |
| Brexiters, why? on 01:23 - Apr 27 with 2640 views | Humpty |
| Brexiters, why? on 15:25 - Apr 26 by A_Fans_Dad |
I find this part of the discussion very interesting.
You have a few UK/Welsh? fans arguing about the USA with a Resident of the USA.
So on one side we have a guy that has and is experiencing what the obama administration has done to America and their foreign policy.
On the other side you have a bunch of guys who only appear to know what they know from the MSM and they believe what they have read.
Then you have one poster accusing Dav of being a Republican without having a clue about his actual political position and also calling them "funny".
Is this person an American citizen?
Is he a Democrat, because that is how they treat any opposition? |
Hi dad.
"Then you have one poster accusing Dav of being a Republican without having a clue about his actual political position and also calling them "funny".
No dad. I know Dav is a Republican because of the views he holds and the articles he links to. I don't know if you know what organizations like Fox News and Brietbart are, but lot's of us here do. They are not news organizations. They are part of the GOP propoganda machine. And Dav loves 'em! That's why he links to them so much. And that's why everyone here but you realises where his political loyalties lay.
Such things were allowed to exist since the Eighties, when Reagan, also a Republican like Dav, got rid of the Fairness Doctrine. The Fairness Doctrine was a US law, established in 1949 that said broadcast media had to present both sides of the argument. What's not to like? News trying to be sort of, um, fair? Not for Republicans like Reagan and Dav. The news must say what I think!
I'd rather watch balanced news myself.
A balanced news network will tell you that millions of Americans love Obamacare, because now they have health insurance that they couldn't get before. Meaning now if they get ill, they are much more likely not to die. Fox and Dav won't tell you that because they don't care about that.
And yes. I do find them funny. Obama worse than Bush? Considering what Bush was left with and what he left to Obama to deal with? Remembering that Bush turned a 1.9 trillion surplus into a 1.2 trillion dollar debt? Oh, and by the way, here's a load of wars we started needlessly for you to sort out. Bye.
Yeah I do find them funny. And scary. And thick.
[Post edited 27 Apr 2016 2:14]
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| Brexiters, why? on 02:22 - Apr 27 with 2630 views | Davillin |
| Brexiters, why? on 01:23 - Apr 27 by Humpty |
Hi dad.
"Then you have one poster accusing Dav of being a Republican without having a clue about his actual political position and also calling them "funny".
No dad. I know Dav is a Republican because of the views he holds and the articles he links to. I don't know if you know what organizations like Fox News and Brietbart are, but lot's of us here do. They are not news organizations. They are part of the GOP propoganda machine. And Dav loves 'em! That's why he links to them so much. And that's why everyone here but you realises where his political loyalties lay.
Such things were allowed to exist since the Eighties, when Reagan, also a Republican like Dav, got rid of the Fairness Doctrine. The Fairness Doctrine was a US law, established in 1949 that said broadcast media had to present both sides of the argument. What's not to like? News trying to be sort of, um, fair? Not for Republicans like Reagan and Dav. The news must say what I think!
I'd rather watch balanced news myself.
A balanced news network will tell you that millions of Americans love Obamacare, because now they have health insurance that they couldn't get before. Meaning now if they get ill, they are much more likely not to die. Fox and Dav won't tell you that because they don't care about that.
And yes. I do find them funny. Obama worse than Bush? Considering what Bush was left with and what he left to Obama to deal with? Remembering that Bush turned a 1.9 trillion surplus into a 1.2 trillion dollar debt? Oh, and by the way, here's a load of wars we started needlessly for you to sort out. Bye.
Yeah I do find them funny. And scary. And thick.
[Post edited 27 Apr 2016 2:14]
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All your post shows is how severely and incurably deluded you are.
It's not worth adding anything else to that. |  |
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| Brexiters, why? on 11:00 - Apr 27 with 2591 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Brexiters, why? on 01:23 - Apr 27 by Humpty |
Hi dad.
"Then you have one poster accusing Dav of being a Republican without having a clue about his actual political position and also calling them "funny".
No dad. I know Dav is a Republican because of the views he holds and the articles he links to. I don't know if you know what organizations like Fox News and Brietbart are, but lot's of us here do. They are not news organizations. They are part of the GOP propoganda machine. And Dav loves 'em! That's why he links to them so much. And that's why everyone here but you realises where his political loyalties lay.
Such things were allowed to exist since the Eighties, when Reagan, also a Republican like Dav, got rid of the Fairness Doctrine. The Fairness Doctrine was a US law, established in 1949 that said broadcast media had to present both sides of the argument. What's not to like? News trying to be sort of, um, fair? Not for Republicans like Reagan and Dav. The news must say what I think!
I'd rather watch balanced news myself.
A balanced news network will tell you that millions of Americans love Obamacare, because now they have health insurance that they couldn't get before. Meaning now if they get ill, they are much more likely not to die. Fox and Dav won't tell you that because they don't care about that.
And yes. I do find them funny. Obama worse than Bush? Considering what Bush was left with and what he left to Obama to deal with? Remembering that Bush turned a 1.9 trillion surplus into a 1.2 trillion dollar debt? Oh, and by the way, here's a load of wars we started needlessly for you to sort out. Bye.
Yeah I do find them funny. And scary. And thick.
[Post edited 27 Apr 2016 2:14]
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Seeing as you can identify youself from my post and have answered it let me explain something to you.
I know all about Fox News and Breitbart, I also know all about the MSM in both the USA and the UK, they are now nothing but mouthpieces for the Government.
Investigative Journalism is dead as is your so called "Fairness Doctrine".
I have gained my own knowledge of Obamacare and know for a fact that you are not being exactly truthful, I have read 100s of articles about it and how badly it was rolled out and is performing.
So just like with Dav you have made stupid assumptions about me that are no where near the truth.
So you actually think that obama has done a good job as president, I find that extremely sad and I feel very sorry for you. | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 11:10 - Apr 27 with 2588 views | Loyal |
| Brexiters, why? on 11:00 - Apr 27 by A_Fans_Dad |
Seeing as you can identify youself from my post and have answered it let me explain something to you.
I know all about Fox News and Breitbart, I also know all about the MSM in both the USA and the UK, they are now nothing but mouthpieces for the Government.
Investigative Journalism is dead as is your so called "Fairness Doctrine".
I have gained my own knowledge of Obamacare and know for a fact that you are not being exactly truthful, I have read 100s of articles about it and how badly it was rolled out and is performing.
So just like with Dav you have made stupid assumptions about me that are no where near the truth.
So you actually think that obama has done a good job as president, I find that extremely sad and I feel very sorry for you. |
But he's black man ! | |
| Nolan sympathiser, clout expert, personal friend of Leigh Dineen, advocate and enforcer of porridge swallows.
The official inventor of the tit w@nk. | | Poll: | Who should be Swansea number 1 |
| |
| Brexiters, why? on 11:20 - Apr 27 with 2584 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Brexiters, why? on 11:10 - Apr 27 by Loyal |
But he's black man ! |
Well I didn't know Humpty was black as well as obama. | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 11:51 - Apr 27 with 2575 views | the_oracle |
| Brexiters, why? on 11:00 - Apr 27 by A_Fans_Dad |
Seeing as you can identify youself from my post and have answered it let me explain something to you.
I know all about Fox News and Breitbart, I also know all about the MSM in both the USA and the UK, they are now nothing but mouthpieces for the Government.
Investigative Journalism is dead as is your so called "Fairness Doctrine".
I have gained my own knowledge of Obamacare and know for a fact that you are not being exactly truthful, I have read 100s of articles about it and how badly it was rolled out and is performing.
So just like with Dav you have made stupid assumptions about me that are no where near the truth.
So you actually think that obama has done a good job as president, I find that extremely sad and I feel very sorry for you. |
All very well talking about the US but this thread was about Brexit. Perhaps a leader from the NY Times will help. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/07/opinion/leaving-the-eu-would-hurt-britains-eco
There is already evidence the banks are preparing to move there main offices to EU cities such as Frankfurt.
I still have not seen a compelling economic argument to get out to counter all the evidence from many different countries , people, organisations, etc etc.
Outers, evidence please we will be better off, not just hopes or pronunciations from Boris and Farage. | | | |
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| Brexiters, why? on 12:21 - Apr 27 with 2565 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Brexiters, why? on 11:51 - Apr 27 by the_oracle |
All very well talking about the US but this thread was about Brexit. Perhaps a leader from the NY Times will help. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/07/opinion/leaving-the-eu-would-hurt-britains-eco
There is already evidence the banks are preparing to move there main offices to EU cities such as Frankfurt.
I still have not seen a compelling economic argument to get out to counter all the evidence from many different countries , people, organisations, etc etc.
Outers, evidence please we will be better off, not just hopes or pronunciations from Boris and Farage. |
You obviously missed my quote from Teresa May, openly admitting it was all fearmongering hype then.
Why you would believe all these institutes that represent the Government, the EU or the Banks, all of whom recommended us being in the Eurozone, look how wrong they were over that, is beyond me.
Why you also can't see where the EU is heading is also beyond me.
Why you can't see how much the EU is currently costing us for the privelege of being in the most corrupt undemocratic "union" after the UN is also beyond me.
Why you can't see the dangers to the UK of unlimited immigration and it's costs, or the danger that the currrent batch of unknown, young Muslims represent to the whole of Europe and the UK, especially after "Paris" is also beyond me.
Why you don't understand that the "Farming Subsidies" that we enjoy are paid for by You, me and every other tax payer in the UK, but who gets it and how much is controlled by the EU is also beyond me.
Under the Magna Carta the sell out by Ted Heath and continued sell out by each subsequent government to the EU is actually "Treason", but our loss of sovereignty does not appear to bother any of the "Remain" supporters, including you.
But I do understand the you have a very parochial "Welsh" attitude and do not consider the wider interests of the UK.
All you are worried about is your pocket.
The other point you seem to be missing is that the World Leaders are shitting themselves over Brexit, without our Market for their Exports and Direct Financial Input the EU and Eurozone will collapse, it is only hanging on by the skin of it's teeth now..
[Post edited 27 Apr 2016 12:40]
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| Brexiters, why? on 13:06 - Apr 27 with 2551 views | jackonicko |
| Brexiters, why? on 11:00 - Apr 27 by A_Fans_Dad |
Seeing as you can identify youself from my post and have answered it let me explain something to you.
I know all about Fox News and Breitbart, I also know all about the MSM in both the USA and the UK, they are now nothing but mouthpieces for the Government.
Investigative Journalism is dead as is your so called "Fairness Doctrine".
I have gained my own knowledge of Obamacare and know for a fact that you are not being exactly truthful, I have read 100s of articles about it and how badly it was rolled out and is performing.
So just like with Dav you have made stupid assumptions about me that are no where near the truth.
So you actually think that obama has done a good job as president, I find that extremely sad and I feel very sorry for you. |
I personally believe history will look more kindly on President Obama than the current narrative. |  | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 14:31 - Apr 27 with 2529 views | the_oracle |
| Brexiters, why? on 12:21 - Apr 27 by A_Fans_Dad |
You obviously missed my quote from Teresa May, openly admitting it was all fearmongering hype then.
Why you would believe all these institutes that represent the Government, the EU or the Banks, all of whom recommended us being in the Eurozone, look how wrong they were over that, is beyond me.
Why you also can't see where the EU is heading is also beyond me.
Why you can't see how much the EU is currently costing us for the privelege of being in the most corrupt undemocratic "union" after the UN is also beyond me.
Why you can't see the dangers to the UK of unlimited immigration and it's costs, or the danger that the currrent batch of unknown, young Muslims represent to the whole of Europe and the UK, especially after "Paris" is also beyond me.
Why you don't understand that the "Farming Subsidies" that we enjoy are paid for by You, me and every other tax payer in the UK, but who gets it and how much is controlled by the EU is also beyond me.
Under the Magna Carta the sell out by Ted Heath and continued sell out by each subsequent government to the EU is actually "Treason", but our loss of sovereignty does not appear to bother any of the "Remain" supporters, including you.
But I do understand the you have a very parochial "Welsh" attitude and do not consider the wider interests of the UK.
All you are worried about is your pocket.
The other point you seem to be missing is that the World Leaders are shitting themselves over Brexit, without our Market for their Exports and Direct Financial Input the EU and Eurozone will collapse, it is only hanging on by the skin of it's teeth now..
[Post edited 27 Apr 2016 12:40]
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I didn't miss the quote from the Mail. A woman who wants us in yet wants us out of the ECHR and take away all the protections that court offers us. The Mail grasping at straws.
What on earth has the Euro decision got to do with this? If we had entered can you say the Euro would not have been better and stronger with us a par t of it? Impossible to answer, like its impossible for the Brexiters to say what will happen to the British economy if we come out.
All these millions we will allegedly save from coming out. DO you honestly think this government will spend on the NHS , something they are intent on privatising? Do you think the farmers will keep producing without asking for the subsidies to continue?
Loss of Sovereignty? Really. We still make the vast majority of our own laws.
Immigration. Young Muslims entering the country. Are they European? No they come from Pakistan Africa Banglasdesh etc. They will still come here whether we are in or out.Do you think the French will allow Calais to continue? The jungles inhabitants will be ushered across the channel they day we leave.
My own financial interests? hahah. London produces 22% of GDP through banking ( we all hate bankers but..) and financial services. They will be gone as soon as it is clear we are out, and they are already preparing for this.
There are more reports out today in regard to how much each person will lose in the UK if we vote out. perhaps you can point me to a leading body who advocates out today? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/27/britain-brexit-one-month-income-oecd- | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 14:51 - Apr 27 with 2523 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Brexiters, why? on 14:31 - Apr 27 by the_oracle |
I didn't miss the quote from the Mail. A woman who wants us in yet wants us out of the ECHR and take away all the protections that court offers us. The Mail grasping at straws.
What on earth has the Euro decision got to do with this? If we had entered can you say the Euro would not have been better and stronger with us a par t of it? Impossible to answer, like its impossible for the Brexiters to say what will happen to the British economy if we come out.
All these millions we will allegedly save from coming out. DO you honestly think this government will spend on the NHS , something they are intent on privatising? Do you think the farmers will keep producing without asking for the subsidies to continue?
Loss of Sovereignty? Really. We still make the vast majority of our own laws.
Immigration. Young Muslims entering the country. Are they European? No they come from Pakistan Africa Banglasdesh etc. They will still come here whether we are in or out.Do you think the French will allow Calais to continue? The jungles inhabitants will be ushered across the channel they day we leave.
My own financial interests? hahah. London produces 22% of GDP through banking ( we all hate bankers but..) and financial services. They will be gone as soon as it is clear we are out, and they are already preparing for this.
There are more reports out today in regard to how much each person will lose in the UK if we vote out. perhaps you can point me to a leading body who advocates out today? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/27/britain-brexit-one-month-income-oecd- |
As with everything else we will have to agree to disagree, your worldview is diametrically opposed to mine.
The fact that you believe anything coming out of "institutions" sets us apart, in one breath you say not to trust Cameron & the Conservatives and in the next you cherry pick the parts of what they say that fits your worldview.
Therefore there is no point in continuing the discussion, your mind is as closed on the subject as mine is. | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 15:06 - Apr 27 with 2513 views | the_oracle |
| Brexiters, why? on 14:51 - Apr 27 by A_Fans_Dad |
As with everything else we will have to agree to disagree, your worldview is diametrically opposed to mine.
The fact that you believe anything coming out of "institutions" sets us apart, in one breath you say not to trust Cameron & the Conservatives and in the next you cherry pick the parts of what they say that fits your worldview.
Therefore there is no point in continuing the discussion, your mind is as closed on the subject as mine is. |
I don't trust the Tories and Cameron, but this election makes strange bedfellows.
Interesting you want to stop the discussion. Perhaps its because you cannot identify anything from an "institution" that supports your economic view? | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 17:46 - Apr 27 with 2478 views | johnlangy |
| Brexiters, why? on 18:20 - Apr 26 by A_Fans_Dad |
Theresa May also let this slip as well.
"Unlike David Cameron and George Osborne, she refrained from issuing apocalyptic warnings that the sky will fall in if we vote to leave.
Instead Mrs May quite rightly dismissed as 'nonsense' the suggestion that this country is too small to survive unshackled from Brussels."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3558626/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Mrs-wriggle |
What would be apocalyptic would be if we left and lost 50% of our export trade by failing to negotiate a Free Trade agreement with the EU.
We WILL come to an agreement but the question has always been what will that agreement look like.
And Theresa May is correct. We are not too small to survive. Again it's how successfully we'd survive which is the question. | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 17:54 - Apr 27 with 2473 views | johnlangy |
| Brexiters, why? on 17:51 - Apr 26 by jackrabbit |
Next time the ‘Remainers ‘ trot out their line about ‘being better off in a reformed EU’ ask yourself ‘what reform?’ This was Boris in yesterday's Telegraph:
"The Prime Minister asked to restore social and employment legislation to national control; for a complete opt-out from the Charter of Fundamental rights; to stop the European court adjudicating on UK criminal law; to ensure that immigrants have a job offer before entering the UK; to revise the Working Time directive to protect the NHS; to reform the Common Agricultural Policy and the structural funds; and full-on Treaty change. "
What did we get? Two thirds of diddly squat. "
He continues:
"We need to talk about that deal in the weeks ahead, because it shows how contemptuously we will be treated if we vote to remain. This is the last chance, in our lifetimes, to take back control — of £350m a week (and use some of that cash to deliver a seven-day NHS) — and the last chance to take back control of our democracy. "
Screw Obama —neither he nor any other US President would countenance subjugating their power to a supra-national government like the EU. Bloody hypocrite.
Read the full article here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/24/do-bremainers-really-think-voters-wil
Well worth a read. |
Again, for balance. I just checked the huffingtonpost website and read a number of the articles in which Boris stated his opinion that we should remain in the EU.
He had a change of heart in February, for purely selfish reasons many say. It's worth mentioning this because Jeremy Corbyn as been lambasted by many for changing his mind and going the other way.
We could accept, of course, that they've both been persuaded by the arguments, which is what the whole process is supposed to be about. | | | |
| Brexiters, why? on 19:18 - Apr 27 with 2449 views | exiledclaseboy |
I've been contemplating some positives about Brexit, should that transpire. Nothing about how the UK will suffer if we leave of course. Frankly anyone predicting what will happen is purely guessing as no one has a clue without knowing what the negotiations will yield. So here goes:
1 - Cameron will be finished. But more to the point...
2 - Osborne will be finished.
3 - Boris will probably be PM. Yeah he's a dangerous pretend buffoon but imagine the entertainment.
4 - Gove may well be Boris's Chamcellor. Mwahhahahahaha.
5 - Corbyn will walk around looking even more permanently bewildered than he currently does.
6 - UKIP's entire and only reason for existing disappears.
7 - Probably another referendum in Scotland, leading this time to...
8 - The break up of the U.K as we know it.
Entertaining tines ahead. If you enjoy politics but realised long ago that it really makes no difference at all who's in charge, vote Brexit for some or all of the above entertainment.*
*The Management reserves the right to change the currently scheduled entertainment without notice or financial penalty. |  |
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| Brexiters, why? on 19:19 - Apr 27 with 2447 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Brexiters, why? on 13:06 - Apr 27 by jackonicko |
I personally believe history will look more kindly on President Obama than the current narrative. |
I think that's a given. How history will look on his opponents is another matter [Post edited 27 Apr 2016 19:19]
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| Brexiters, why? on 19:20 - Apr 27 with 2445 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Brexiters, why? on 17:46 - Apr 27 by johnlangy |
What would be apocalyptic would be if we left and lost 50% of our export trade by failing to negotiate a Free Trade agreement with the EU.
We WILL come to an agreement but the question has always been what will that agreement look like.
And Theresa May is correct. We are not too small to survive. Again it's how successfully we'd survive which is the question. |
Yet again you post inaccurate data, perhaps I should take the time to advise you about who should be worried about us not getting a trade deal.
The latest figures for Import/Export to the EU and rest of the world are as follows
EU Imports in to the UK were £19270M which is 58% of our World ImportTrade of £33207.35M, so non EU imports were £15720.5M.
Our Exports to the EU were £11073M which is 44% of our World Export Trade, so non EU Exports were £13937.35M
So our trade gap with the EU was some £8197M in the EU's favour compared to a Trade gap of only £1783.15M with the rest of the world.
So let's get this clear, you think the EU can afford to lose an Export Market of £19270M plus losing £21,000M (£11,000M Net) per year which we pay directly in to the EU coffers which are completely unaccountable.
So, let's see no more Airbus Aircraft, as we make the wings.
No more BMW Minis sold in Europe as we make them here, BMW won't like that as they get the profits.
No more sales to the UK of BMWS, Mercedes, Volkswagens, Audis, Porches, Skodas, Bentleys, Rolls Royces, Seats, Alfas, Ferraris, Lambos, Maseratis, Bugattis, Volvos, Citreon/Peugeots, Renaults, Fiats, Fords (no 1 best seller in the UK) .
No more UK sales of Bosch, Karcher, Meile, Beko, Tefal, Indesit, LG, Philips Electrical products.
No more Fench wine, Champagne or cheeses, no more Olives and fruit etc.
No of course the EU won't want to deal with the UK, they will be quite happy to see one of their biggest markets disappear to Asia, Africa, Australia, the US, China, India etc.
Greece is already in real Financial trouble, Italy is heading the same way, along with Spain, most of the new Eastern bloc countries also depend on EU hand outs.
The Eurozone does not work for the small poorer countries, who was mad enough to ever think it could, ho yes all those Financial Institutions that get quoted ad nauseam by the Remain crowd and repeated ad nauseam by the British Brainwashing Corporation.
Turkey are currently blackmailing the EU (read Germany) over the Migration Crisis and it is a crisis, the EU cannot absorb over a million refugees a year.
The migrants themselves are NOT Refugees, they are Economic Migrants, they ceased to become Refugees as soon as they found refuge away from the fighting. Nobody knows the backgrounds of the majority of them and therefore have no idea of how much trouble they will be in the future.
As Theresa May has pointed out we cannot deport common criminals, rapists, murderers and terrorists due to the European Court of Human Rights, but that is OK as the Oracle says the ECHR offers us all lots of protection that we wouldn't otherwise have.
Our own Government is hiding many facts about EU costs, actual immigration figures, how much cash leaves the country back to the Migrants own coutry to be spent there.
They won't tell us what the EU plans for us are, like fines for using our own laws yet more fishing restrictions, you can't even catch & keep a Bass now, putting the environment before humans because it may affect the Referendum.
Get real, they are desperate to keep us in and will do and say anything to prevent us from leaving, because if the UE goes bankrupt and breaks up the EU & Eurozone what do you think it will do to EU Countries and the World Markets? [Post edited 27 Apr 2016 19:24]
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| Brexiters, why? on 19:44 - Apr 27 with 2427 views | Davillin |
I learned the following from a brilliant economics professor in the late '50s or early '60s, while he was speaking about the devious and surreptitious route being taken toward the then-unamed E.U.:
No economic union ever pulls up the weaker partners, but always pulls down the formerly stronger partners. Q.E.D. | |
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| Brexiters, why? on 19:49 - Apr 27 with 2425 views | Davillin |
| Brexiters, why? on 19:19 - Apr 27 by exiledclaseboy |
I think that's a given. How history will look on his opponents is another matter [Post edited 27 Apr 2016 19:19]
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What are the next three winning lottery numbers?
That's a far easier task than predicting what you call "a given."
I'd be most interested in hearing two or three of his positive achievements as president that you think will earn him even a slightly positive reputation from History.
One, even. | |
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| Brexiters, why? on 19:57 - Apr 27 with 2417 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Brexiters, why? on 19:44 - Apr 27 by Davillin |
I learned the following from a brilliant economics professor in the late '50s or early '60s, while he was speaking about the devious and surreptitious route being taken toward the then-unamed E.U.:
No economic union ever pulls up the weaker partners, but always pulls down the formerly stronger partners. Q.E.D. |
Just like the United States of America then?
And someone saying it doesn't make it QED. [Post edited 27 Apr 2016 20:06]
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| Brexiters, why? on 20:02 - Apr 27 with 2411 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Brexiters, why? on 19:49 - Apr 27 by Davillin |
What are the next three winning lottery numbers?
That's a far easier task than predicting what you call "a given."
I'd be most interested in hearing two or three of his positive achievements as president that you think will earn him even a slightly positive reputation from History.
One, even. |
With respect, it would be pointless. What I might see as positives you are very likely to have an opposite view on. | |
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| Brexiters, why? on 20:10 - Apr 27 with 2401 views | Davillin |
| Brexiters, why? on 20:02 - Apr 27 by exiledclaseboy |
With respect, it would be pointless. What I might see as positives you are very likely to have an opposite view on. |
More than "very likely," probably.
[I like that sentence for its sheer curiousness. And ambiguity.]
But you could give us one or two with that caveat, no? [Post edited 27 Apr 2016 20:11]
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| Brexiters, why? on 15:19 - Apr 28 with 2329 views | johnlangy |
| Brexiters, why? on 19:20 - Apr 27 by A_Fans_Dad |
Yet again you post inaccurate data, perhaps I should take the time to advise you about who should be worried about us not getting a trade deal.
The latest figures for Import/Export to the EU and rest of the world are as follows
EU Imports in to the UK were £19270M which is 58% of our World ImportTrade of £33207.35M, so non EU imports were £15720.5M.
Our Exports to the EU were £11073M which is 44% of our World Export Trade, so non EU Exports were £13937.35M
So our trade gap with the EU was some £8197M in the EU's favour compared to a Trade gap of only £1783.15M with the rest of the world.
So let's get this clear, you think the EU can afford to lose an Export Market of £19270M plus losing £21,000M (£11,000M Net) per year which we pay directly in to the EU coffers which are completely unaccountable.
So, let's see no more Airbus Aircraft, as we make the wings.
No more BMW Minis sold in Europe as we make them here, BMW won't like that as they get the profits.
No more sales to the UK of BMWS, Mercedes, Volkswagens, Audis, Porches, Skodas, Bentleys, Rolls Royces, Seats, Alfas, Ferraris, Lambos, Maseratis, Bugattis, Volvos, Citreon/Peugeots, Renaults, Fiats, Fords (no 1 best seller in the UK) .
No more UK sales of Bosch, Karcher, Meile, Beko, Tefal, Indesit, LG, Philips Electrical products.
No more Fench wine, Champagne or cheeses, no more Olives and fruit etc.
No of course the EU won't want to deal with the UK, they will be quite happy to see one of their biggest markets disappear to Asia, Africa, Australia, the US, China, India etc.
Greece is already in real Financial trouble, Italy is heading the same way, along with Spain, most of the new Eastern bloc countries also depend on EU hand outs.
The Eurozone does not work for the small poorer countries, who was mad enough to ever think it could, ho yes all those Financial Institutions that get quoted ad nauseam by the Remain crowd and repeated ad nauseam by the British Brainwashing Corporation.
Turkey are currently blackmailing the EU (read Germany) over the Migration Crisis and it is a crisis, the EU cannot absorb over a million refugees a year.
The migrants themselves are NOT Refugees, they are Economic Migrants, they ceased to become Refugees as soon as they found refuge away from the fighting. Nobody knows the backgrounds of the majority of them and therefore have no idea of how much trouble they will be in the future.
As Theresa May has pointed out we cannot deport common criminals, rapists, murderers and terrorists due to the European Court of Human Rights, but that is OK as the Oracle says the ECHR offers us all lots of protection that we wouldn't otherwise have.
Our own Government is hiding many facts about EU costs, actual immigration figures, how much cash leaves the country back to the Migrants own coutry to be spent there.
They won't tell us what the EU plans for us are, like fines for using our own laws yet more fishing restrictions, you can't even catch & keep a Bass now, putting the environment before humans because it may affect the Referendum.
Get real, they are desperate to keep us in and will do and say anything to prevent us from leaving, because if the UE goes bankrupt and breaks up the EU & Eurozone what do you think it will do to EU Countries and the World Markets? [Post edited 27 Apr 2016 19:24]
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Many people used the figure of 50% of our trade going to the EU but recently I have heard people saying 44%. And you have made the effort to search out the figures so I accept what you say.
But there's nothing to argue about in the rest of my post. It would be apocalyptic if we lost that trade by not being able to agree a Trade Deal with the EU (apparently what David Cameron and George Osborne said). Just a statement of fact. But then I said that we will do a deal, the only question being what that deal would look like. What's to argue about that ?
You start the fourth para with 'So let's get this clear, you think the EU can afford to lose an Export Market of .............'. I didn't say in my post that they can or can't afford to lose our market. What I've said in other posts is that they can afford to lose our market more than we can afford to lose theirs (and I do understand that they sell more to us than we do to them).
I posed this question in another post so i'll ask it again. And this is not meant to be confrontational. I'm just looking at this in a logical way and am asking you and others to show me where I'm wrong.
Imagine the Trade Deal with the EU is being decided at one meeting (it's the same logic if it was a hundred meetings). The UK on one side exports 44% of it's trade to the EU. That's about 1.63% on average per EU country. They sell us more than we sell them so i'll just assume 3% for the sake of making the point. Each of the other countries reps is looking to get the best deal for their country and the EU generally. They are thinking, if we don't sign this deal my country will lose 3% of our exports but the UK will lose 44% of it's exports. Would you explain to me why that puts us in a strong position.
You ask if they would be happy to see one of their biggest markets disappear. If they sell us 3% then they sell 97% elsewhere. And, like us at present, their biggest trading partner is the group of countries sitting alongside them on their side of the table to which they also probably sell 40% or more of their goods.
But we will sign a deal and my original post asked what will that deal look like. They will make us sign a deal where we accept all the EU rules and regs as they are because what else can they do. If they let us pick and choose what rules we wanted to abide by then that would give us an advantage competition wise. And they're not going to disadvantage their own economies. | | | |
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