| May 21:55 - Jan 17 with 5987 views | Kilkennyjack |
Worst PM ever ?
Unelected, charmless, and generally clueless.
Hard Brexit now, when she was a remainer.
Wales is screwed.
Well done to the morons who voted out. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
|
| |  |
| May on 14:46 - Jan 18 with 1249 views | GB11 |
| May on 10:32 - Jan 18 by KGriz16 |
I still can't believe people in Wales voted for BREXIT. Unbelieavable. Wales smaller towns and cities will forever be sh*t holes now. A colleague of mine from Merthyr (of all places) voted for Brexit, and when I challenge him on why he did so; he claims because it's better for Britain, but when I asked but how much Euro money has been pumped into the revenevation of Merthyr town centre; he can't answer me. I think the majority of votes, in my opinion, have been through scare tactics and underlying racism. Truth be told, I just can't believe people voted for it. |
We are a net contributor to the EU.
The benefits of free trade obviously are included.
But the claim the EU funds are a blessing is a lie. They give us less than we give to them.
Sticking a EU flag on a building, wow cheers. Lets put a UK flag on every road, hospital, school built by our gov.
They plonk a EU flag on grand projects like nantgarw college for a reason. So people fall for it.
It is our money.
We pay for access to free trade. On the contributions eastern Europeans basically just spend our money. As they take out far more than us. It isn't even close. [Post edited 18 Jan 2017 14:49]
|  | | |
| May on 15:16 - Jan 18 with 1228 views | LeonWasGod |
| May on 14:46 - Jan 18 by GB11 |
We are a net contributor to the EU.
The benefits of free trade obviously are included.
But the claim the EU funds are a blessing is a lie. They give us less than we give to them.
Sticking a EU flag on a building, wow cheers. Lets put a UK flag on every road, hospital, school built by our gov.
They plonk a EU flag on grand projects like nantgarw college for a reason. So people fall for it.
It is our money.
We pay for access to free trade. On the contributions eastern Europeans basically just spend our money. As they take out far more than us. It isn't even close. [Post edited 18 Jan 2017 14:49]
|
In terms of difference between our contributions and cash we get back, yes the UK is a net contributor (Wales isn't apparently, it's believed to be a net beneficiary). But that excludes the value (monetary and otherwise) of all the things that being a Member State gives us - the hundreds of thousands of people who've gained qualifications, the tens of thousands of extra jobs, the support to the jobless, the educational initiatives to improve the skills our kids, the inward migration of scientists who help drive new areas of our economy, etc., etc. The value of the added benefits are rarely factored into the discussion (actually there never really has been a decent discussion). Therein lies a problem of the EU's and it's member states making: they've been really poor at letting us know what the benefits are, as those EU plaques are the tip of the iceberg. |  | | |
| May on 17:10 - Jan 18 with 1188 views | AnotherJohn |
| May on 15:16 - Jan 18 by LeonWasGod |
In terms of difference between our contributions and cash we get back, yes the UK is a net contributor (Wales isn't apparently, it's believed to be a net beneficiary). But that excludes the value (monetary and otherwise) of all the things that being a Member State gives us - the hundreds of thousands of people who've gained qualifications, the tens of thousands of extra jobs, the support to the jobless, the educational initiatives to improve the skills our kids, the inward migration of scientists who help drive new areas of our economy, etc., etc. The value of the added benefits are rarely factored into the discussion (actually there never really has been a decent discussion). Therein lies a problem of the EU's and it's member states making: they've been really poor at letting us know what the benefits are, as those EU plaques are the tip of the iceberg. |
But surely, just as we should compare cash paid to the EU with cash received, we should do the same for non-monetary benefits to ourselves and other EU countries. And there the UK probably more than punches its weight in terms of areas like defense and research. For example, if one looks at the latest THE world university rankings there are six UK universities in the world top 30, but only two in the rest of the EU (one each from Sweden and Germany). Non-EU Switzerland has two.
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/student/best-universities/best-universities
I suppose you might argue that this isn't a zero sum game and both sides benefit, but this is certainly not an area where there is a large imbalance between what we give and receive. [Post edited 18 Jan 2017 17:18]
|  | | |
| May on 18:05 - Jan 18 with 1156 views | longlostjack |
| May on 15:16 - Jan 18 by LeonWasGod |
In terms of difference between our contributions and cash we get back, yes the UK is a net contributor (Wales isn't apparently, it's believed to be a net beneficiary). But that excludes the value (monetary and otherwise) of all the things that being a Member State gives us - the hundreds of thousands of people who've gained qualifications, the tens of thousands of extra jobs, the support to the jobless, the educational initiatives to improve the skills our kids, the inward migration of scientists who help drive new areas of our economy, etc., etc. The value of the added benefits are rarely factored into the discussion (actually there never really has been a decent discussion). Therein lies a problem of the EU's and it's member states making: they've been really poor at letting us know what the benefits are, as those EU plaques are the tip of the iceberg. |
Yes they really haven't been good at advertising the benefits of membership. The biggest for me has been the chance to work hassle free in four different countries. Now having worked on the continent for more than 30 years it looks as if I'll have to apply for a residents and work permit. I'm not the only Brit in the same situation of course. Bloody Tories - little Englanders the lot of them. [Post edited 18 Jan 2017 18:06]
|  |
| |
| May on 19:42 - Jan 18 with 1123 views | exiledclaseboy |
| May on 22:54 - Jan 17 by Kilkennyjack |
Well we normally know, say, if we vote Tory then Dai Cam gets to be PM whereas red Ed gets the gig if we vote Labour. We understand that.
Nobody ever thought evil Theresa would be PM when they voted. And thats the point. |
Nobody thought Callaghan would become PM when Wilson won in 1974. Or Major, when Thatcher won in 1989. Or Churchill when Chamberlain won in 1937. Or Eden and then McMillan when Churchill won in 1953. Or Douglas Home when McMillan won in 1959.
Etc. |  |
| |
| May on 20:14 - Jan 18 with 1100 views | sherpajacob |
| May on 19:42 - Jan 18 by exiledclaseboy |
Nobody thought Callaghan would become PM when Wilson won in 1974. Or Major, when Thatcher won in 1989. Or Churchill when Chamberlain won in 1937. Or Eden and then McMillan when Churchill won in 1953. Or Douglas Home when McMillan won in 1959.
Etc. |
Indeed, a party is elected on the basis of their manifesto, and the party that wins is perfectly entitled to change their leader.
However if they depart from their manifesto, the electorate have every right to be able to.hold them to account.
The 2015 Tory manifesto:
"We are clear about what we want from Europe, We say: yes to the Single Market"
No mention of grammar schools!
Theresa Mao has abandoned her previously professed beliefs in the pursuit of power.
She is attempting to bypass and subvert our sovereign parliament.
We need to take back control. |  |
| |
| May on 20:26 - Jan 18 with 1092 views | exiledclaseboy |
| May on 20:14 - Jan 18 by sherpajacob |
Indeed, a party is elected on the basis of their manifesto, and the party that wins is perfectly entitled to change their leader.
However if they depart from their manifesto, the electorate have every right to be able to.hold them to account.
The 2015 Tory manifesto:
"We are clear about what we want from Europe, We say: yes to the Single Market"
No mention of grammar schools!
Theresa Mao has abandoned her previously professed beliefs in the pursuit of power.
She is attempting to bypass and subvert our sovereign parliament.
We need to take back control. |
The manifesto also contained a commitment to hold a referendum on the UK's continued membership of the EU and to honour the result.
If we're going to bin governments off every time they deviate from their manifesto we'd have an election every month. | |
| |
| May on 20:32 - Jan 18 with 1081 views | perchrockjack |
Ive seen more pm s that most on here and hard to find bigger liar than Wilson, a brilliant pitician however.
As opposed to Heath who was simply inept
Blair ,possibly takes up the mantle of Liar Incarate and trese hasn't had a chance as of yet | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| May on 20:36 - Jan 18 with 1077 views | sherpajacob |
| May on 20:26 - Jan 18 by exiledclaseboy |
The manifesto also contained a commitment to hold a referendum on the UK's continued membership of the EU and to honour the result.
If we're going to bin governments off every time they deviate from their manifesto we'd have an election every month. |
Membership of EU and the single market are not the same thing. | |
| |
| May on 22:47 - Jan 18 with 1028 views | rock1n |
| May on 11:01 - Jan 18 by Highjack |
People grossly overestimate how much Wales actually gets. We've received a total of £14 billion off the EU since 2000, take away what we've paid in and that number is a lot smaller. The Assembly budget alone is over £15b a year so the eu money is small fry.
It is time for the politicians of Wales, particularly those in the assembly to stand up and be counted. They have hid behind Brussels and Westminster for far too long. You mention the infrastructure in towns like Merthyr? Small towns that will forever be shitholes? Well that's the Welsh assembly's responsibility, yet they are hell bent on funnelling all available funds into Cardiff. |
The problem is Wales is a net beneficiary - we take back more than we raise same as UK GDP. The irony is places that were actually getting less back than they raised voted to stay in EU.
Reality is we have basically shot ourselves in the foot. But this will take time to sink in. |  |
| The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter |
| |
| May on 22:52 - Jan 18 with 1022 views | rock1n |
| May on 14:02 - Jan 18 by BarrySwan |
Fair play
Given that the EU didn't come into existence until 1993 whoever 'we are' must have been rather psychic as we joined the ECC in 1973.
Which as you might recall was pitched to the British population as a common market trading block which is what it was.
Given that there was no such thing as a European parliament even until 1979 then quite clearly the whole edifice bore little or no resemblance to the entity that the British voting public voted to join.
Perhaps the whining, whinging, stamping their little feet remoaners might like to remember that perhaps we should have been asked as to whether we wished to be governed by a European parliament with the aim of ever closer political Union before being forced into such an arrangement without a further vote. |
We are leaving the customs union which is linked to the original ideal. We are actually reverting to before the eec 73 arrangements. I hope you're all right because if you're not we're all f@@ked | |
| The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter |
| |
| May on 22:55 - Jan 18 with 1018 views | Kilkennyjack |
| May on 19:42 - Jan 18 by exiledclaseboy |
Nobody thought Callaghan would become PM when Wilson won in 1974. Or Major, when Thatcher won in 1989. Or Churchill when Chamberlain won in 1937. Or Eden and then McMillan when Churchill won in 1953. Or Douglas Home when McMillan won in 1959.
Etc. |
But nobody said anything about all that.
The point about May stands. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
|
| |
| May on 22:58 - Jan 18 with 1015 views | Kilkennyjack |
| May on 22:47 - Jan 18 by rock1n |
The problem is Wales is a net beneficiary - we take back more than we raise same as UK GDP. The irony is places that were actually getting less back than they raised voted to stay in EU.
Reality is we have basically shot ourselves in the foot. But this will take time to sink in. |
Correct.
We are morons. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
|
| |
| May on 23:22 - Jan 18 with 996 views | Strikeout |
She's a witch. | | | |
| May on 08:05 - Jan 19 with 940 views | AnotherJohn |
| May on 22:58 - Jan 18 by Kilkennyjack |
Correct.
We are morons. |
Wales is part of the UK and is subsidised by English taxpayers through the Barnett formula and other mechanisms. As stated by other posters the UK is a net contributor to the EU. It really doesn't make much sense to portray Wales as a net beneficiary from the EU without considering the financing arrangements that apply in the UK as a whole. I think from your side the strongest argument would be that Wales gets more via the mechanism of the EU Regional Development Fund (even though it is just UK money coming back) than it would if the money stayed with Westminster and was disbursed internally by the UK Parliament. Outside the EU it would be up to WG to try to get the lost money back from the UK Government.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-25039137 [Post edited 19 Jan 2017 8:11]
| | | |
| May on 09:08 - Jan 19 with 905 views | sherpajacob |
| May on 14:02 - Jan 18 by BarrySwan |
Fair play
Given that the EU didn't come into existence until 1993 whoever 'we are' must have been rather psychic as we joined the ECC in 1973.
Which as you might recall was pitched to the British population as a common market trading block which is what it was.
Given that there was no such thing as a European parliament even until 1979 then quite clearly the whole edifice bore little or no resemblance to the entity that the British voting public voted to join.
Perhaps the whining, whinging, stamping their little feet remoaners might like to remember that perhaps we should have been asked as to whether we wished to be governed by a European parliament with the aim of ever closer political Union before being forced into such an arrangement without a further vote. |
Indeed, your whole point is an argument for remaining in the customs union and EEA, whilst leaving the EU, the soft brexit / Norway option.
17M voted to join(remain in) the common market in 1975, virtually nobody voted against. The same number who voted to leave EU membership.
There is no mandate to leave the customs union, but Mrs May has gerrymandered one.
So in answer to the OP, , we've had some genuinely sh1te prime ministers, but on the evidence to date TM is the worst.in living memory.
She has aligned the UK with Trump, Putin and Le Pen. | |
| |
| May on 09:17 - Jan 19 with 891 views | Kilkennyjack |
| May on 08:05 - Jan 19 by AnotherJohn |
Wales is part of the UK and is subsidised by English taxpayers through the Barnett formula and other mechanisms. As stated by other posters the UK is a net contributor to the EU. It really doesn't make much sense to portray Wales as a net beneficiary from the EU without considering the financing arrangements that apply in the UK as a whole. I think from your side the strongest argument would be that Wales gets more via the mechanism of the EU Regional Development Fund (even though it is just UK money coming back) than it would if the money stayed with Westminster and was disbursed internally by the UK Parliament. Outside the EU it would be up to WG to try to get the lost money back from the UK Government.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-25039137 [Post edited 19 Jan 2017 8:11]
|
Yes correct.
Although the start point for the argument is that wales only qualifies for redistributed monies as it is one of the poorest places in Europe. Thats a fact. A fact that is a direct consequence of the inactions of successive UK governments. Shameful.
So - as morons - we are now trusting the people who created the situation to fix it, whilst telling the only people willing to actually help wales to feck off. Ignorant lap dog wales.
The joys of Euro16 seem a long way away. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
|
| |
| May on 09:19 - Jan 19 with 889 views | GB11 |
| May on 09:17 - Jan 19 by Kilkennyjack |
Yes correct.
Although the start point for the argument is that wales only qualifies for redistributed monies as it is one of the poorest places in Europe. Thats a fact. A fact that is a direct consequence of the inactions of successive UK governments. Shameful.
So - as morons - we are now trusting the people who created the situation to fix it, whilst telling the only people willing to actually help wales to feck off. Ignorant lap dog wales.
The joys of Euro16 seem a long way away. |
I love how "successive" governments is being thrown about as if the UK went bad post labour.... | | | |
| May on 09:39 - Jan 19 with 876 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
She give Boris f@cking Johnson a job as foreign secretary hes now running around Europe talking about nazi's .
How more inept can anyone be .
Thatcher on steroids ,she hasn't started yet . [Post edited 19 Jan 2017 12:57]
|  |
| |
| May on 12:28 - Jan 19 with 833 views | Kilkennyjack |
| May on 09:19 - Jan 19 by GB11 |
I love how "successive" governments is being thrown about as if the UK went bad post labour.... |
No - both blue Tories and red Tories.
Labours ineptitude during Brexit campaign was a crime against the working people of this country. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
|
| |
| May on 12:31 - Jan 19 with 827 views | Highjack |
| May on 12:28 - Jan 19 by Kilkennyjack |
No - both blue Tories and red Tories.
Labours ineptitude during Brexit campaign was a crime against the working people of this country. |
Looks like trampies propaganda is rubbing off on someone at least. |  |
| |
| May on 12:32 - Jan 19 with 826 views | LeonWasGod |
| May on 08:05 - Jan 19 by AnotherJohn |
Wales is part of the UK and is subsidised by English taxpayers through the Barnett formula and other mechanisms. As stated by other posters the UK is a net contributor to the EU. It really doesn't make much sense to portray Wales as a net beneficiary from the EU without considering the financing arrangements that apply in the UK as a whole. I think from your side the strongest argument would be that Wales gets more via the mechanism of the EU Regional Development Fund (even though it is just UK money coming back) than it would if the money stayed with Westminster and was disbursed internally by the UK Parliament. Outside the EU it would be up to WG to try to get the lost money back from the UK Government.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-25039137 [Post edited 19 Jan 2017 8:11]
|
Which is correct, and taking it one step further forward people have very little faith in the WG being able to extract a better deal from the UK Govt. Especially as there will be pressure on Westminster from that perceived 'extra' funding we already get compared to the English.
I'm struggling to see or imagine how we'll get more from Westminster, but we'll see. Something's going to have to give - either more funding or less spending. | | | |
| May on 12:37 - Jan 19 with 820 views | trampie |
| May on 09:19 - Jan 19 by GB11 |
I love how "successive" governments is being thrown about as if the UK went bad post labour.... |
Whenever I have seen the term 'successive' governments it is usually a phrase referring to previous Conservative and Labour governments not just to a party that might have been in for more than one term. |  |
| |
| May on 14:29 - Jan 19 with 783 views | BarrySwan |
| May on 22:52 - Jan 18 by rock1n |
We are leaving the customs union which is linked to the original ideal. We are actually reverting to before the eec 73 arrangements. I hope you're all right because if you're not we're all f@@ked |
Linked to? Or the original ideal?
I'm fine but then again I'm not the one squealing like a 7 year old about losing a referendum result. | | | |
| May on 14:34 - Jan 19 with 777 views | BarrySwan |
| May on 09:08 - Jan 19 by sherpajacob |
Indeed, your whole point is an argument for remaining in the customs union and EEA, whilst leaving the EU, the soft brexit / Norway option.
17M voted to join(remain in) the common market in 1975, virtually nobody voted against. The same number who voted to leave EU membership.
There is no mandate to leave the customs union, but Mrs May has gerrymandered one.
So in answer to the OP, , we've had some genuinely sh1te prime ministers, but on the evidence to date TM is the worst.in living memory.
She has aligned the UK with Trump, Putin and Le Pen. |
My point is that a majority voted to leave the EU and whatever structures therein, legal, trading, moral, immoral or any other.
If you personally don't think that a country of 65m+ is capable of looking after itself and making it's own decisions, trade deals, laws. then fine.
I'm afraid that I disagree with that opinion.
And so apparently does the majority of the country, I can only assume that you and others are cringing at the polls on the subject published this morning which kind of totally dispels the pitiful cries of 'The British people didn't know what they were voting for and would now change their vote" that the rewhinewers have articulated every day since the result
You lost get over it. [Post edited 19 Jan 2017 19:03]
| | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
