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Lets get an idea from us fans in general as to the last 6 months or so. A 6 months that's seen us bought out by the Americans in a deal where the old owners sold their souls and us down the river.
We all know they did their best to keep the Trust away from discussions and tried wilfully to get the Trust to sign a legal document stating the old regime's Shareholders Agreement practically meant nothing.
Since then the Trust have parted company with their Supporters Director and Vice Chairman and have been threatening legal action throughout the whole time, also stating on many an occasion that "this can't go on much longer"
As we are now aware from recent statements the Trust feel they are "building bridges" and getting somewhere with the new regime. Do we think this is the right course of action and to trust the new American owners and the remaining old Directors, bearing in mind all that's gone on?
What do the fans think?
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action
[Post edited 21 Feb 2017 14:58]
* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM
I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 15:37 - Feb 27 by Uxbridge
Yeah, if anyone can recommend a QC who's prepared to work for free then let us know!
As mentioned in the latest Trust board minutes, that's exactly what the Trust is doing in terms of getting the best guidance available.
It's been a very interesting discussion on here, with lots of good points. A lot of which are very logical. However, in my view anyway, whether the legal path is truly open will depend on the guidance we receive from that top QC. I'm far from an expert on the law but one thing I've learned is that what seems obvious isn't necessarily the case, and if it was so clear cut we wouldn't need a second opinion. Just my opinion anyway.
Anyway, as I think Mon said, ultimately if any legal action is to be taken, it would have to be taken and voted by the members, and such a decision could only be taken with that guidance being made available to the members. However, as you also said, what detail that could be put out there without weakening the case would be the tricky bit.
And regardless of your view, can we look forward to some kind of opinion from Dai Little in th enear term, or is that reserved for Lisa's eyes only?
. . . and i'm sorry to say that while I was mildly encouraged by Uxbridge's comments in the past few days, he now seems to be back in full tilt bullshit mode.
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 16:00 - Feb 27 by Shaky
And regardless of your view, can we look forward to some kind of opinion from Dai Little in th enear term, or is that reserved for Lisa's eyes only?
Hmmm. Little and Lisa. Has a certain ring to it.
Shaky - I and a number of others have had discussions with the Trust to see if we could be of any help.I know nookie has - I believe T2C also said he has. I'm sure that you could quite easily do so as well.
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Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 16:45 - Feb 27 with 1016 views
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 16:12 - Feb 27 by Lord_Bony
A good law firm would have had some definite answers back within a few days.
Top QCs are going to drag it out because it means more extortionate fees for them...they love this sort of thing.
The budget was £5k. I don't know what the going rate is currently, but i'd be very, svery surprised if that buys much more than a days work.
As I said in my first post in this thread, there is something very fishy about this, and now Uxbridge has seemingly again kicked this discussion into the black box that is the all-seeing expert, no other information provided.
With this kind of smoke and mirrors is it really any wonder that people are so disenchanted?
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 16:19 - Feb 27 by londonlisa2001
Shaky - I and a number of others have had discussions with the Trust to see if we could be of any help.I know nookie has - I believe T2C also said he has. I'm sure that you could quite easily do so as well.
It may have escaped your attention that I have been giving the Trust high quality advice for the past 30 months or so, at each step offering the best advice on the way forward and then accurately forecasting the dismal consequences as that was ignored time and time again.
Perhaps the fact that you personally spent several man weeks trying to knock me and that advice had something to do with this?
And given I know for a fact that much of that time was spent with you trying to blag me and readers on subjects I knew perfectly well you were clueless about, kindly spare me the nauseating hogwash about your only concern being for the good of the club. Capiche?
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 16:57 - Feb 27 by Shaky
It may have escaped your attention that I have been giving the Trust high quality advice for the past 30 months or so, at each step offering the best advice on the way forward and then accurately forecasting the dismal consequences as that was ignored time and time again.
Perhaps the fact that you personally spent several man weeks trying to knock me and that advice had something to do with this?
And given I know for a fact that much of that time was spent with you trying to blag me and readers on subjects I knew perfectly well you were clueless about, kindly spare me the nauseating hogwash about your only concern being for the good of the club. Capiche?
And there ends, once again, any chance of sensible discussion on the topic that could actually achieve anything, as a thread descends into willy waving.
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 16:57 - Feb 27 by Shaky
It may have escaped your attention that I have been giving the Trust high quality advice for the past 30 months or so, at each step offering the best advice on the way forward and then accurately forecasting the dismal consequences as that was ignored time and time again.
Perhaps the fact that you personally spent several man weeks trying to knock me and that advice had something to do with this?
And given I know for a fact that much of that time was spent with you trying to blag me and readers on subjects I knew perfectly well you were clueless about, kindly spare me the nauseating hogwash about your only concern being for the good of the club. Capiche?
I still can't grasp why a non Swans fan cares so much. It's weird.
The first ever recipient of a Planet Swans Lifetime Achievement Award.
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 16:19 - Feb 27 by londonlisa2001
Shaky - I and a number of others have had discussions with the Trust to see if we could be of any help.I know nookie has - I believe T2C also said he has. I'm sure that you could quite easily do so as well.
I have shared my views with the Trust - which are all contained in my posts on the various threads about legal action. (I am not a legal expert).
I think the Trust should take legal action - on the basis I think the Trust's aim should be long term ownership of the club.
Which I think can be brought about through legal action, banking the money for rainy day, if Trust wins - then taking a controlling stake when club goes into an inevitable downward spiral. (Based on circa 45 clubs have already played in the Premier League so many clubs have ben promoted and relegated).
In the meantime good luck to the Yanks if they can take us to the next level (once the Trust has banked the money for the rainy day).
I would therefore take more risk to pursue legal action if QC thought balance of probabilities was in the Yank's favour Although I believe the QC will say balance of probabilities is in Trust's favour though.
Even if I didn't believe in the Trust's full control of the club - I really can't see the point of maintaining current minority stake under the new articles. Locked in with nowhere to go with no significant influence. Value of Trust's stake (if it has any value under the new articles) at risk through leverage of club's assets/excessive management fees and Trust unable to do much about it.
Trust also doesn't seem to have the fight to stand up for itself - so if Trust doesn't do it now - is it really likely to take legal action if club takes on excessive debt or Yank's start paying themselves excessive management fees?
For the avoidance of any doubt I have not been party to any QC opinion from the Trust or any indication/view of what the Trust plans to do next.
I can't understand why 7 months after the takeover legal action has not been taken (this thread has nearly been going a week) and I would agree with Shaky it feels fishy (maybe it really is a communications issue) - especially when statements like 'building bridges' are released. If legal action is not going to be taken then Trust should announce it and explain the rationale.
Time moves on and you feel by Trust not starting legal action - it is seen legally as having accepted the sale.
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Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 17:58 - Feb 27 with 912 views
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 17:37 - Feb 27 by Nookiejack
I have shared my views with the Trust - which are all contained in my posts on the various threads about legal action. (I am not a legal expert).
I think the Trust should take legal action - on the basis I think the Trust's aim should be long term ownership of the club.
Which I think can be brought about through legal action, banking the money for rainy day, if Trust wins - then taking a controlling stake when club goes into an inevitable downward spiral. (Based on circa 45 clubs have already played in the Premier League so many clubs have ben promoted and relegated).
In the meantime good luck to the Yanks if they can take us to the next level (once the Trust has banked the money for the rainy day).
I would therefore take more risk to pursue legal action if QC thought balance of probabilities was in the Yank's favour Although I believe the QC will say balance of probabilities is in Trust's favour though.
Even if I didn't believe in the Trust's full control of the club - I really can't see the point of maintaining current minority stake under the new articles. Locked in with nowhere to go with no significant influence. Value of Trust's stake (if it has any value under the new articles) at risk through leverage of club's assets/excessive management fees and Trust unable to do much about it.
Trust also doesn't seem to have the fight to stand up for itself - so if Trust doesn't do it now - is it really likely to take legal action if club takes on excessive debt or Yank's start paying themselves excessive management fees?
For the avoidance of any doubt I have not been party to any QC opinion from the Trust or any indication/view of what the Trust plans to do next.
I can't understand why 7 months after the takeover legal action has not been taken (this thread has nearly been going a week) and I would agree with Shaky it feels fishy (maybe it really is a communications issue) - especially when statements like 'building bridges' are released. If legal action is not going to be taken then Trust should announce it and explain the rationale.
Time moves on and you feel by Trust not starting legal action - it is seen legally as having accepted the sale.
Shaky here's a serious question for you.
WHY DONT YOU CONTACT DAI LITTLE DIRECTLY AND OFFER YOUR SERVICES/HELP/KNOW HOW?
The first ever recipient of a Planet Swans Lifetime Achievement Award.
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 17:37 - Feb 27 by Nookiejack
I have shared my views with the Trust - which are all contained in my posts on the various threads about legal action. (I am not a legal expert).
I think the Trust should take legal action - on the basis I think the Trust's aim should be long term ownership of the club.
Which I think can be brought about through legal action, banking the money for rainy day, if Trust wins - then taking a controlling stake when club goes into an inevitable downward spiral. (Based on circa 45 clubs have already played in the Premier League so many clubs have ben promoted and relegated).
In the meantime good luck to the Yanks if they can take us to the next level (once the Trust has banked the money for the rainy day).
I would therefore take more risk to pursue legal action if QC thought balance of probabilities was in the Yank's favour Although I believe the QC will say balance of probabilities is in Trust's favour though.
Even if I didn't believe in the Trust's full control of the club - I really can't see the point of maintaining current minority stake under the new articles. Locked in with nowhere to go with no significant influence. Value of Trust's stake (if it has any value under the new articles) at risk through leverage of club's assets/excessive management fees and Trust unable to do much about it.
Trust also doesn't seem to have the fight to stand up for itself - so if Trust doesn't do it now - is it really likely to take legal action if club takes on excessive debt or Yank's start paying themselves excessive management fees?
For the avoidance of any doubt I have not been party to any QC opinion from the Trust or any indication/view of what the Trust plans to do next.
I can't understand why 7 months after the takeover legal action has not been taken (this thread has nearly been going a week) and I would agree with Shaky it feels fishy (maybe it really is a communications issue) - especially when statements like 'building bridges' are released. If legal action is not going to be taken then Trust should announce it and explain the rationale.
Time moves on and you feel by Trust not starting legal action - it is seen legally as having accepted the sale.
If the yanks invest fifty million on players in the summer in an 'attempt' to do this next level nonsesne I wish them well. Based on Huws spending in January, I very much doubt it. They see him as some sort of transfer guru, and as long as that is the case they won't invest.
As for legal action, anyone who allows them to walk away unhindered is the real enemy.
Nolan sympathiser, clout expert, personal friend of Leigh Dineen, advocate and enforcer of porridge swallows.
The official inventor of the tit w@nk.
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 15:37 - Feb 27 by Uxbridge
Yeah, if anyone can recommend a QC who's prepared to work for free then let us know!
As mentioned in the latest Trust board minutes, that's exactly what the Trust is doing in terms of getting the best guidance available.
It's been a very interesting discussion on here, with lots of good points. A lot of which are very logical. However, in my view anyway, whether the legal path is truly open will depend on the guidance we receive from that top QC. I'm far from an expert on the law but one thing I've learned is that what seems obvious isn't necessarily the case, and if it was so clear cut we wouldn't need a second opinion. Just my opinion anyway.
Anyway, as I think Mon said, ultimately if any legal action is to be taken, it would have to be taken and voted by the members, and such a decision could only be taken with that guidance being made available to the members. However, as you also said, what detail that could be put out there without weakening the case would be the tricky bit.
Your last paragraph is very important as I don't see how any Trust member could vote against "guidance" opinion emanating from legal advice received and circulated to members by the Trust. Additionally, wonder if the thousands of Swans fans who are not Trust members know or care about what is happening off the field of play?
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Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 19:07 - Feb 27 with 822 views
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 18:47 - Feb 27 by tomdickharry
Your last paragraph is very important as I don't see how any Trust member could vote against "guidance" opinion emanating from legal advice received and circulated to members by the Trust. Additionally, wonder if the thousands of Swans fans who are not Trust members know or care about what is happening off the field of play?
The fact they may not is a huge failing on the Trust's part.
Can you imagine a scenario of another Premier League Club being 21% owned by the fans and those fans number less than 2 bloody thousand???
Seriously, it's shameful.
* BOX OFFICE POST ABOVE* TM
I am the resurrection and i am the light. I couldn’t ever bring myself to hate you as i’d like
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 19:07 - Feb 27 by TheResurrection
The fact they may not is a huge failing on the Trust's part.
Can you imagine a scenario of another Premier League Club being 21% owned by the fans and those fans number less than 2 bloody thousand???
Seriously, it's shameful.
The Trust are displaying the same traits as they have done in the past i.e. Nice cosy friendly relationships with the owners. You would think that lessons have been learned.
I've said before that the local and national press should be involved so that the skullduggery is brought to the attention of the masses. They seem to be caught in two minds. One, sweep it under the carpet and enjoy the freebies that they come their way or two, confront the issues head on.
Uxbridge tries to offer his views which aren't helpful really as he can take 1000 words to say very little. And Phil S seems to have gone to the moon.
And when it comes to a vote from the members, crucially the Trust will need to offer guidance and present facts. I hope that they say it as it is. That is, Its been an act of deception at its very worst as it's been carried out by some of our own. People who were being trusted. I'm losing the will to live slowly. Get on with it or explain why you're doing a damn good impression of a tortoise on Valium.
Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day
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Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 19:44 - Feb 27 with 772 views
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 16:45 - Feb 27 by Shaky
The budget was £5k. I don't know what the going rate is currently, but i'd be very, svery surprised if that buys much more than a days work.
As I said in my first post in this thread, there is something very fishy about this, and now Uxbridge has seemingly again kicked this discussion into the black box that is the all-seeing expert, no other information provided.
With this kind of smoke and mirrors is it really any wonder that people are so disenchanted?
Have I? News to me. Anyway, once a definitive legal view has been formed, then the Trust will need to inform the members either way. And no, not just Lisa. I would expect that to happen in the next few weeks.
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 19:44 - Feb 27 by Uxbridge
Have I? News to me. Anyway, once a definitive legal view has been formed, then the Trust will need to inform the members either way. And no, not just Lisa. I would expect that to happen in the next few weeks.
You would expect that to happen within the next few weeks?
Is that just your view on the matter or do you have confirmation of the planned strategy. Otherwise it's pointless guessing. Go away, find out some facts and then divulge them.
Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day
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Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 19:47 - Feb 27 with 761 views
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 18:47 - Feb 27 by tomdickharry
Your last paragraph is very important as I don't see how any Trust member could vote against "guidance" opinion emanating from legal advice received and circulated to members by the Trust. Additionally, wonder if the thousands of Swans fans who are not Trust members know or care about what is happening off the field of play?
People vote against expert guidance all the time. Hell, Brexit and Trump are two recent examples.
Do the non members care? It's an interesting question. I'd wager the significant majority there at kick off couldn't give a stuff about anything happening off the pitch. Lots don't of course, but you only had to see the relative apathy of a matchday when passions were a lot higher in past months to think that we're a long way away from the Vetch days.
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 19:47 - Feb 27 by swancity
You would expect that to happen within the next few weeks?
Is that just your view on the matter or do you have confirmation of the planned strategy. Otherwise it's pointless guessing. Go away, find out some facts and then divulge them.
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 17:58 - Feb 27 by Darran
Shaky here's a serious question for you.
WHY DONT YOU CONTACT DAI LITTLE DIRECTLY AND OFFER YOUR SERVICES/HELP/KNOW HOW?
Uxbridge informs me I have already contacted him indirectly via this thread.
I assume he is perfectly able to follow the arguments I have set out, but have additionally stated that he can email me if there is anything he wants to discuss. The Trust has my email address. T2C can supply my phone number if necessary.
I'm not a lawyer, so putting a case together is not for me even assuming my strategy is a flyer, but as far as I am concerned he owes us all some feedback, certainly by the end of the week. Reasonable?
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 19:49 - Feb 27 by Uxbridge
Good idea, I'll just build a time machine.
No. just get some accurate deadlines to do something positive within them and then afterwards. Instead of just speculating and offering your own flaky views.
Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day
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Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 20:15 - Feb 27 with 699 views
Build Bridges with Americans/Sell Outs or Respectfully Proceed with Legal Action on 19:49 - Feb 27 by Shaky
Uxbridge informs me I have already contacted him indirectly via this thread.
I assume he is perfectly able to follow the arguments I have set out, but have additionally stated that he can email me if there is anything he wants to discuss. The Trust has my email address. T2C can supply my phone number if necessary.
I'm not a lawyer, so putting a case together is not for me even assuming my strategy is a flyer, but as far as I am concerned he owes us all some feedback, certainly by the end of the week. Reasonable?
[Post edited 27 Feb 2017 19:53]
Stuff Uxbridge and Sumbler come to that go directly to Dai Little.
The first ever recipient of a Planet Swans Lifetime Achievement Award.
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