| Good Luck UK 12:13 - Dec 12 with 58551 views | PlanetHonneywood |
For the Eze, not the Pugh!
#votewarburton
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| Good Luck UK (n/t) on 09:19 - Dec 15 with 1987 views | distortR |
[Post edited 15 Dec 2019 9:37]
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| Good Luck UK on 09:24 - Dec 15 with 1972 views | distortR |
in my experience, she only says that cos she's going to jump STRAIGHT into bed with someone else.
Our national anthem could be that jilted john song. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 09:34 - Dec 15 with 1953 views | distortR |
(See if you can find out which 25% of Karl is non-compliant, we'll take it from there) | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 09:39 - Dec 15 with 1939 views | nix |
It's a straw man because even the Tories wouldn't bring back capital punishment to win a few votes. It's not a runner. It's this all or nothing thinking thats got Labour down the current rabbit hole. Appealing a bit more to the electorate and having a modicum of power is better than having no power at all and ranting from the sidelines. No one's saying abandon all your principles but start slowly. We won't change so they have to isn't really working for you, is it?
This Tory party didn't start with such a right wing agenda, they've been in power for nine years and have been steadily lurching rightwards. The LP would need to do the same.
You cannot compare Germany to Britain. It's a different electorate and you're talking about maintaining the status quo not massive change. You'd have to be in power for a while and gradually convince people that it would be good for the economy and themselves long term Also, we have a much more individualistic culture I think. Since the Thatcher years, I think we've become more selfish. You just have to read some fora where people shamelessly say they don't give a shiny shit about others as long as they're all right. I think my kids' generation are different but it will take a long time for Thatchers' children to die off and the younger generation to take up the reins.
Look, Bazz, this is not an academic exercise, I have no proof of what I'm saying, it's just my sense, so I can't back it up, but it's also based on what people have said to me (and yes the three day week is relevant because it maybe history to you, but it's a memory to many Tory voters, who tend to be 50 plus).
I believe strongly in a decent opposition. Weak oppositions also lead to Trump and Johnson. I didn't want a Johnson government. But even I can see that completely ignoring the electorate will not take the LP where they want to be right now and it's going to be an awful long time before the electorate catches up.
I don't know whether David Milliband would have been a good leader. Maybe he did give up too soon. Or maybe he saw the writing on the wall and who was taking over the party, who can say? But I genuinely do think that he would have been a much more credible leader. And incidentally, it's not always a strength to hang on when all the evidence has been against you, Jezza are you listening?
I can see I'm not going to convince you and wouldn't really expect to. And that's fine. But it worries me that the LP isn't changing and we're going to continue to have a Tory party in government that will shape this country for generations.
And yes, I'm a terrible insomniac! | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 10:58 - Dec 15 with 1870 views | QPR_John |
Sorry have not read to the end of this post so may have been answered. Is it not the case in those countries everybody pays more tax than here. Corbyn tried to tell us all his policies could be financed by only taxing the few people did not believe it. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 11:06 - Dec 15 with 1858 views | QPR_John |
"Andrew Neil, Michael Portillo Alan Johnson talked a lot of sense. "
Maybe the reason the BBC dropped it | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 11:08 - Dec 15 with 1856 views | stevec |
The main problem, which of these policies could any worker earning more than £10 an hour say to themselves ‘that’ll make me better off’. None of them which is one of the reasons why the North of England joined the South of England in turning their backs on you.
In the end the clincher was both Liberal and Labours scant understanding of democracy. If you’d accepted Theresa Mays sell out on Brexit, you’d probably have won a general election in 2022.
You defied democracy and paid the price. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 11:34 - Dec 15 with 1811 views | Hunterhoop |
Glad someone has worked this out. It’s an important point to make about our electoral system. However, 2 points:
1) Corbyn would not be prime minister of a left coalition; Starmer would. At a push Jess Philips. The Greens, SNP, and LDs categorically would not back a Corbyn premiership. You need a genuine leader who can unite the opposition and centre left, not a ridiculously stubborn bloke with terrible approval ratings across the electorate (as opposed to the LP membership).
2) Part of the reason we don’t have a form of PR is because Labour never pushed through electoral reform whilst in power (unsurprising as no one does), but not did they campaign hard for it when it was put to a referendum. It was a staggering example of a lack of foresight.
The only people who benefit for FPTP are the Tories. It’s been apparent for decades. Corbyn still wasn’t taking about it seriously in the last two elections. So short sighted.
Ultimately the LP leadership got their strategy all wrong, as did Swinson. Both were staggeringly stupid and got the tone of their pitch all wrong. They got what they deserved.
I’m hugely disappointed at the result as a social democrat, but I can accept it’s the fault of the parties that more closely represent me (LD, then Lab), not the electorate. Corbyn, McDonnell and Momemtum are p*ssing me off even more by continuing to show they are simply not listening to the public. You can’t implement any policies to help anyone unless you have power or a share of it.
Life is about compromise. It’s a necessary part of functioning as anything but an individual. The Lab party need to realise this. Alan Johnson was spot on. If Lab fail to listen they will be in the wilderness for decades and we’ll have no effective opposition for a Tory govt. That is not good for the country. Don’t become like the Tory party; put the country before the party! [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 11:48]
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| Good Luck UK on 12:10 - Dec 15 with 1769 views | francisbowles |
I think you missed out the word allegedly! | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 12:16 - Dec 15 with 1766 views | Watford_Ranger |
Presumably the ones which most people support would be quite popular. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 12:29 - Dec 15 with 1756 views | wood_hoop |
'I’m hugely disappointed at the result as a social democrat, but I can accept it’s the fault of the parties that more closely represent me (LD, then Lab), not the electorate. Corbyn, McDonnell and Momemtum are p*ssing me off even more by continuing to show they are simply not listening to the public. You can’t implement any policies to help anyone unless you have power or a share of it.'
'Life is about compromise. It’s a necessary part of functioning as anything but an individual. The Lab party need to realise this. Alan Johnson was spot on. If Lab fail to listen they will be in the wilderness for decades and we’ll have no effective opposition for a Tory govt. That is not good for the country. Don’t become like the Tory party; put the country before the party!'
Great post Hunterhoop,
You have put exactly how I feel, your post is far more coherent than I could ever have ever put.
One point I would like to put forward is that Brexit was such a dominating factor that it
overshadowed much of the manifesto that the LP had put out.
Must have put a bit of the 'shits' up Johnson and the rest of the 'Im alright Jacks' though,
suddenly austerity is over and some of the desperatly needed social funding is now on Tory lips and being touted as part of the 'One Nation'
But we will see just what Tories come up with and how much change will actually occur, by the time of the next election comes round, just who will get the blame if they revert back to type and piss all over those not near the top of the social spectrum. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 12:35 - Dec 15 with 1743 views | nix |
Great post. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 12:36 - Dec 15 with 1740 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
Me me me
I got called a Tory on here many a time from a few and Bazz, I'm not. but they refused to listen to me or my like.
I'm what a lot of those that voted Tory (I did not vote) this time were/are
Labour leave voters and like them, not far left and not Blairites.
Very tricky ground in where they go next, I don't have a party as things stand and I think those that lent their vote don't.
Momentum was chucking abuse at what should have been their own Labour votes, you saw that on here, a micro version of what was going on in the real world. [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 12:37]
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| Good Luck UK on 13:34 - Dec 15 with 1674 views | charmr |
Touch peoples taxes, fags and beer and you’ll never win an election. Here in the US no one touches the gas/petrol prices, they know better.
I don’t understand why basic needs like heat and light need to be run by companies answering to shareholders.
Or why not have a central bank with fair interest rates that puts money into the treasury for public spending. This working to pay bills with over inflated prices on bricks and mortar sounds more like modern slavery to me. What the fcuk is wrong with a four day week. Automation is on its way as companies will lay off workers. I’m all for private enterprise I here, well Govt funding in institutions are the wealth creators not poxy Walmart.
We’re born and are idealistic, then the system grinds us down causing apathy and cynicism and we all seem ok with that. Blatant lying is now wholly acceptable.
Check out Andrew Yang, it’s an interesting perspective. Sadly way too out there,and would freak out anyone who doesn’t like change. [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 14:10]
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| Good Luck UK on 13:52 - Dec 15 with 1640 views | Northernr |
You're right I haven't mentioned Brexit, because I can already feel the Momentum lot trying to form this narrative that actually Magic Grandpa wasn't the problem, the manifesto was popular, people love the policies, if it was proportional representation we'd be in a better place and the only problem was Brexit. So if we just carry on down this road, get Corbyn 2.1 in as leader, let the Tories mess up Brexit, then next time people will come round to their way of thinking.
And I despair at this.
I'm up north this weekend for our match, staying with my parents. They're from working class families, dad's family were steel workers, mum and now step dad's parents were railway workers, so all Labour and unions. My mum has probably moved herself into upper middle class now, retired when my dad died, married a richer guy. They live in one of these northern wards that's always been Labour, always really should be Labour given what the Tories have done to it historically, but has just gone blue. I asked them if they voted Conservative and they said absolutely not, because Boris Johnson's a liar and because of Brexit. So I asked f they voted Labour and they said absolutely not, because they felt the manifesto would bankrupt the country and because they hated and didn't trust Jeremy Corbyn. Never mentioned Brexit once.
There was a poll out last week on why people didn't vote Labour, and the leadership was streets and streets and streets ahead of Brexit in the reasons.
Blair made Labour electable, like it or not. Having a couple of policies that poll well when taken in isolation out of context, and getting a load of young people out knocking on doors, while handing the Conservatives their biggest majority in nearly 100 years is fck all use to anybody.
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| Good Luck UK on 15:11 - Dec 15 with 1543 views | colinallcars |
Blair indeed made Labour electable and apart from Iraq did pretty well in office. If you look at things introduced by Blair's government it reads quite well. Better to have a government that can deliver some benefits than be permanently in opposition with protest policies. Apartfrom Iraq, Blairs other overseas interventions were beneficial. I often wonder how John Smith would have fared had he not tragically died. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 15:22 - Dec 15 with 1520 views | Jigsore |
The election where Labour mostly lost a lot of leave voting seats, lost a lot of voters to a single-issue party called the Brexit Party and the Conservatives ran almost exclusively on the slogan of Get Brexit Done was not about Brexit at all? i'm not convinced. Lot's of people where I work are not particularly engaged with politics at all and just don't want to hear about Brexit in the news all the time anymore. They literally just want to get it done although i'm sure they'll be disappointed there.
I totally understand that lots of people don't like Corbyn! a lot of them don't know why particularly but he's not immensely popular fine. I like him personally BUT he was chosen because his competitors were Andy Burnham, Yvette Cooper and Liz Kendall! and they ALL followed the coalition narrative that austerity was necessary and we deserved it. Harriet Harman whipped to abstain on the hideous Welfare Bill in 2015 as interim leader. When the PLP tried a coup in 2016 who stood against Corbyn?? Owen Jones and Angela Eagle. Literally who? The Sensible Electable Moderatesâ„¢ of Labour haven't offered anything at all except loud public criticism.
now if anyone has an actual that doesn't involve Labour lurching to the new depths of the right the Tories have opened up where we deport people's grandparents who've lived here for 60 years, make the benefit system openly hostile and complicated to discourage use and desperately try to curry favour with Donald Trump's America then I would love to hear it. Because what Blair did was essentially ape a lot of John Major's policy in 1997 except he smiled more and wore jeans and met Oasis and Major was FAR more moderate than the Government we have now. Trying the same thing now is simply not acceptable... | |
| “The thing about football - the important thing about football - is that it is not just about football.†|
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| Good Luck UK on 15:33 - Dec 15 with 1499 views | DannytheR |
If we can let a Rangers analogy through the door, I'd say Labour is at the *exact* point in 2015 where Chris Ramsey had just been sacked as manager - venomous boos on all sides of the ground, Les' mate, got us relegated, out of his depth, should never have been appointed in the first place, etc - and we now welcome back proven winner Neil Warnock. [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 15:34]
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| Good Luck UK on 17:11 - Dec 15 with 1414 views | kensalriser |
I think as a Green party member, Bernie Sanders supporter and left wing campaigner he'd be disappointed that someone using his band's logo is busy disparaging and downposting people who share his politics. | |
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| Good Luck UK on 17:14 - Dec 15 with 1413 views | Boston |
Petrol / Gas prices are untouched! While the Feds have left the 18.4 tax per gallon alone since 1993, States have the right to levy whatever excise they like, which they do and, unless the electorate stops them, there are regular rate hikes across the country. Here in Massachusetts the State House applies an additional 26.54 cents per gallon, I took a look at Maryland and it adds 23.09, while Pennsylvania tops the list by charging another 58.02 cents.
Basic heat and light companies are and always have been private companies, they would need to be nationalized, that's not the system of government most come to the United States for.
Your Central Bank idea I have some sympathy for.
No one forces anyone to work.
Most of the people I grew up with, including myself, were not idealists.
Apathy and cynicism are the preserves of the malcontents.
Blatant lying is a human trait, how it's condoned by others is the problem.
Change...when the populace feel the need for such, it will happen. At the moment it's a rallying cry for those who cannot accept the normality of life.
Meanwhile it's 44f and sunny here in Boston, tad breezy though. [Post edited 15 Dec 2019 17:15]
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| Good Luck UK on 17:45 - Dec 15 with 1345 views | Ned_Kennedys |
Yeah he'll be distraught when he next logs on to the forum. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 17:56 - Dec 15 with 1322 views | connell10 |
They are a shite band so good combo imo. | |
| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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| Good Luck UK on 17:59 - Dec 15 with 1314 views | Boston |
Dunno. Big fan of him and the DK's in the 80's, but he stabbed his band mates in the back, repeatedly. | |
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| Good Luck UK on 18:04 - Dec 15 with 1302 views | Ned_Kennedys |
Your choice of music matches your choice of politics I see. | | | |
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