| Cricket tour v SA 12:00 - Dec 18 with 26292 views | D_Alien |
Jimmy Anderson back in action since breaking down in August, and taking a wicket in the first warm-up game
Looking forward to this tour, as the team looks to establish a new sense of purpose in the test arena. Ben Stokes had a great tour last time, and should be feeling in good fettle
Incidentally, batting for the SA XI, Matthew Arnold. I wondered what he'd been up to after writing Dover Beach |  |
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| Cricket tour v SA (n/t) on 12:47 - Aug 8 with 1692 views | foreverhopefulDale |
| Cricket tour v SA (n/t) on 12:03 - Aug 8 by isitme |
And exactly the same team could be both within the same series! |
Even in the same match. Let’s hope for that in this match. If England bat well, we win, simple as that. I do think the Pakistanis will bowl well, it up to our batsmen to show true grit and skill to win the game. These are true top opposition better than the West Indies, but the likes of which we have to beat to be anything like the best in the world. |  |
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| Cricket tour v SA (n/t) on 15:59 - Aug 8 with 1631 views | Nigeriamark |
| Cricket tour v SA (n/t) on 12:47 - Aug 8 by foreverhopefulDale |
Even in the same match. Let’s hope for that in this match. If England bat well, we win, simple as that. I do think the Pakistanis will bowl well, it up to our batsmen to show true grit and skill to win the game. These are true top opposition better than the West Indies, but the likes of which we have to beat to be anything like the best in the world. |
Tea with 110 needed & 5 wickets. Woaks & Buttler Partnership worth 50 ( in 49 balls) but you have to feel they need at least 50 more
60/40 in Pakistan's favour but was looking a lot worse for us an hour ago [Post edited 8 Aug 2020 16:00]
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| Cricket tour v SA on 17:47 - Aug 8 with 1590 views | wimborne_dale |
41 to win
5 wickets in hand
119* partnership |  |
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| Cricket tour v SA on 18:30 - Aug 8 with 1556 views | D_Alien |
A great test match, full of drama and errors - most of them by England
How on earth we came through that i don't know, but we did... GET IN!!!! | |
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| Cricket tour v SA (n/t) on 18:30 - Aug 8 with 1554 views | Nigeriamark |
| Cricket tour v SA on 18:30 - Aug 8 by D_Alien |
A great test match, full of drama and errors - most of them by England
How on earth we came through that i don't know, but we did... GET IN!!!! |
That’s a great win against a dangerous side. Pity Buttler couldn’t quite see us home but he and Woakes changed the result. [Post edited 8 Aug 2020 18:32]
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| Cricket tour v SA on 18:33 - Aug 8 with 1548 views | isitme |
Never in doubt!
What a great advert for test cricket. At 117-5 I thought we had no chance but what an excellent partnership by Buttler and Woakes. |  | | |
| Cricket tour v SA on 20:07 - Aug 8 with 1473 views | foreverhopefulDale |
Yes a brilliant win in a brilliant test match against a very good side. | |
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| Cricket tour v SA on 20:33 - Aug 8 with 1443 views | Sandyman |
Superb character, determination and skill by England to win that one. A very good result indeed against a quality team . Shows up the "Win Viz" thingy that had us 80% + to lose at one point. Why bother with it when it can be so wrong? |  | | |
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| Cricket tour v SA on 22:17 - Aug 8 with 1388 views | isitme |
| Cricket tour v SA on 20:33 - Aug 8 by Sandyman |
Superb character, determination and skill by England to win that one. A very good result indeed against a quality team . Shows up the "Win Viz" thingy that had us 80% + to lose at one point. Why bother with it when it can be so wrong? |
Probably because from 117-5 in the history of test cricket chasing a score of 277 80% of the teams have lost?
I do get what you are saying, but it helps some of the more casual followers gain a bit more of an insight into 'whose winning' which some people find difficult with cricket. Also the changing percentage gives commentators something else to talk about and helps to highlight the ebbs and flows. | | | |
| Cricket tour v SA on 22:47 - Aug 8 with 1364 views | Sandyman |
| Cricket tour v SA on 22:17 - Aug 8 by isitme |
Probably because from 117-5 in the history of test cricket chasing a score of 277 80% of the teams have lost?
I do get what you are saying, but it helps some of the more casual followers gain a bit more of an insight into 'whose winning' which some people find difficult with cricket. Also the changing percentage gives commentators something else to talk about and helps to highlight the ebbs and flows. |
Well articulated isitme - I get what you are saying as well.
It does indicate where the game is at, at a certain point, and suggest a final outcome, which can be helpful as you say but can also be well wrong as it was today. | | | |
| Cricket tour v SA on 06:27 - Aug 9 with 1285 views | D_Alien |
| Cricket tour v SA on 22:47 - Aug 8 by Sandyman |
Well articulated isitme - I get what you are saying as well.
It does indicate where the game is at, at a certain point, and suggest a final outcome, which can be helpful as you say but can also be well wrong as it was today. |
Except that wasn't wrong at all, it was statistically correct
It could only have been wrong if it was giving out a figure of 100% since even at 99% there remains a possibility of overturning the odds
Yesterday's victory entered several of cricket's record books, stretching back 140 years - it really was that special
That's one of the glories of cricket, that an achievement can occur which can be compared with something that happened in 1902 (the Gilbert Jessop innings). It all sounds very archaic and from another world, except its not; the endeavour and the spirit being exactly the same. No other sport can give you that, over a period of 4/5 days | |
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| Cricket tour v SA on 19:26 - Aug 9 with 1193 views | isitme |
The team for the next test will be interesting. A lot depended on whether Stokes was fit to bowl, but family circumstances have put paid to that. Hopefully all will be well.
I suspect Crawley will come in at three as a replacement for Stokes. I would rest Anderson and Archer and bring in Wood and Curran for the next test. | | | |
| Cricket tour v SA on 20:41 - Aug 9 with 1157 views | D_Alien |
| Cricket tour v SA on 19:26 - Aug 9 by isitme |
The team for the next test will be interesting. A lot depended on whether Stokes was fit to bowl, but family circumstances have put paid to that. Hopefully all will be well.
I suspect Crawley will come in at three as a replacement for Stokes. I would rest Anderson and Archer and bring in Wood and Curran for the next test. |
Agree with each of those points
Plus, despite the unfortunate circumstances requiring him to be with his loved ones (we don't need to know why), it'll give him perhaps the break from action he needs to fully recover from the strains he puts his body under in the England cause | |
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| Cricket tour v SA on 20:53 - Aug 9 with 1144 views | isitme |
| Cricket tour v SA on 20:41 - Aug 9 by D_Alien |
Agree with each of those points
Plus, despite the unfortunate circumstances requiring him to be with his loved ones (we don't need to know why), it'll give him perhaps the break from action he needs to fully recover from the strains he puts his body under in the England cause |
Absolutely. Stokes is a warrior and will at times play through pain that perhaps he shouldn't and bowl those extra long spells in the quest for wickets. Hopefully everything will be okay his end and he can go out to the UAE and enjoy the IPL and be ready for, hopefully, a packed England schedule next year, including India home and away.
Although test cricket is the pinnacle having IPL later in the year will be good viewing. I hope Banton makes the most of his experiences as he could be our next white ball opener for the next 10 years. | | | |
| Cricket tour v SA on 20:55 - Aug 9 with 1141 views | finberty |
The one bloke least deserving of a place in the next Test is the skipper. Once again, had his bacon saved by the skills of others. |  | | |
| Cricket tour v SA on 21:04 - Aug 9 with 1135 views | isitme |
| Cricket tour v SA on 20:55 - Aug 9 by finberty |
The one bloke least deserving of a place in the next Test is the skipper. Once again, had his bacon saved by the skills of others. |
His second innings was really important and he got a good ball on a wearing pitch. His first innings dismissal was a poor shot but showed intent. Pakistan have a good, varied bowling attack. That ball to Pope was unplayable.
I'll bite and say who would you pick ahead of him then? I'd also say both openers, Archer, Anderson and Bess are less deserving of selection for the next test rather than Root. As posted earlier I would rest Anderson and Archer as they have had injury issues recently and the games are coming thick and fast. | | | |
| Cricket tour v SA on 23:38 - Aug 9 with 1092 views | Sandyman |
If Ben Stokes is understandably unavailable for the next two tests, who will be vice-captain to Joe Root? Stuart Broad I reckon. | | | |
| Cricket tour v SA on 08:50 - Aug 10 with 1026 views | mingthemerciless |
| Cricket tour v SA on 21:04 - Aug 9 by isitme |
His second innings was really important and he got a good ball on a wearing pitch. His first innings dismissal was a poor shot but showed intent. Pakistan have a good, varied bowling attack. That ball to Pope was unplayable.
I'll bite and say who would you pick ahead of him then? I'd also say both openers, Archer, Anderson and Bess are less deserving of selection for the next test rather than Root. As posted earlier I would rest Anderson and Archer as they have had injury issues recently and the games are coming thick and fast. |
I thought he did enough in the second innings to ensure his place. |  | | |
| Cricket tour v SA on 11:05 - Aug 10 with 977 views | D_Alien |
Despite the recent dip in his batting average, there's never been any question of Root's place being in doubt. The question remains - is being captain affecting his batting, and does that outweigh England's progress as a team sufficiently to replace him as captain?
The answer to the first is, almost certainly. He'll prefer going back to 4 when (as seems likely) Crawley returns at 3, but i took isitme's point about "who would you replace him with?" to be about the captaincy, and in that regard the only potential candidate at the moment is Stokes, who's unavailable. Plus, teams only very rarely replace their captains mid-series, such as in a crisis like Brearley returning for Botham in 1981
England, despite their vastly irritating habit of playing poorly the first game of a series (we had to break records to not lose this latest one) are overall on a pretty good trajectory, so despite Root's obvious lack of nous during matchplay, perhaps his behind the scenes people management is helping the side slowly improve. We're winning more than we're losing; we won in SA last winter (where this thread started) and we've won our last three tests, after Root returned to take over from Stokes following his absence whilst his child was born
I'd stick with him as captain through to the next Ashes, down under in 2021/22. It may be time to give him a rest after that, unless we emerge with the urn
[Post edited 10 Aug 2020 11:16]
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| Cricket tour v SA on 11:17 - Aug 10 with 962 views | isitme |
Root has won his last six tests as captain!
My response to the earlier poster was actually who would they replace him with in the line up (I notice they have not responded with a suggested replacement), but the point about captaincy is a fair one.
There is no obvious candidate to replace Root. Ideally you do not want to burden your best player with the captaincy. There has been some conjecture about Burns, but I'm not sure he is a automatic pick at this stage of his career. You captain should be an automatic pick.
Back to the original post about Root. I am all for people having an opinion and making criticisms, but it makes for much better debate when people add a bit of insight or offer alternatives. You may not always agree with someone but can appreciate their thought process. [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 11:20]
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| Cricket tour v SA on 12:12 - Aug 10 with 927 views | wimborne_dale |
| Cricket tour v SA on 22:17 - Aug 8 by isitme |
Probably because from 117-5 in the history of test cricket chasing a score of 277 80% of the teams have lost?
I do get what you are saying, but it helps some of the more casual followers gain a bit more of an insight into 'whose winning' which some people find difficult with cricket. Also the changing percentage gives commentators something else to talk about and helps to highlight the ebbs and flows. |
I've been following cricket most of my life and even I don't know who's winning.
I sometime think I know but I'm often wrong. That's what makes cricket the sport it is. | |
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| Cricket tour v SA on 18:42 - Aug 10 with 864 views | finberty |
| Cricket tour v SA on 11:17 - Aug 10 by isitme |
Root has won his last six tests as captain!
My response to the earlier poster was actually who would they replace him with in the line up (I notice they have not responded with a suggested replacement), but the point about captaincy is a fair one.
There is no obvious candidate to replace Root. Ideally you do not want to burden your best player with the captaincy. There has been some conjecture about Burns, but I'm not sure he is a automatic pick at this stage of his career. You captain should be an automatic pick.
Back to the original post about Root. I am all for people having an opinion and making criticisms, but it makes for much better debate when people add a bit of insight or offer alternatives. You may not always agree with someone but can appreciate their thought process. [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 11:20]
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Ah well apologies for not coming back sooner Isitme but work got in the way of posting further comments.
My view on Root might be unfairly coloured by the fact that for many of the recent victories it is easy to attribute the victory to an individual (or individuals') performance. This used to happen with Root, back when he was mentioned in the same breath as Kohli and Smith. I might be wrong but my perception it is that it has been a while.
Added to that is his decision-making - going from overbowling Archer (allegedly) to beyond the point of injury, to barely using him at all, despite him (Root) being part of the selection process.
I would love it if Root were to rediscover his batting mastery, and captaincy has done him no favours in that area.
As to who would replace him - no obvious choices exist, beyond Burns who I agree looks as if he needs longer to cement his place - not assisted by an unusual batting style. Of the existing county captains, how many are Test class? Of those already in the squad, who could do the job? It probably comes down to a shortlist of one, featuring Ben Stokes. My preference would be for Root to start taking attacks apart like he used to do. | | | |
| Cricket tour v SA on 19:12 - Aug 10 with 849 views | isitme |
| Cricket tour v SA on 18:42 - Aug 10 by finberty |
Ah well apologies for not coming back sooner Isitme but work got in the way of posting further comments.
My view on Root might be unfairly coloured by the fact that for many of the recent victories it is easy to attribute the victory to an individual (or individuals') performance. This used to happen with Root, back when he was mentioned in the same breath as Kohli and Smith. I might be wrong but my perception it is that it has been a while.
Added to that is his decision-making - going from overbowling Archer (allegedly) to beyond the point of injury, to barely using him at all, despite him (Root) being part of the selection process.
I would love it if Root were to rediscover his batting mastery, and captaincy has done him no favours in that area.
As to who would replace him - no obvious choices exist, beyond Burns who I agree looks as if he needs longer to cement his place - not assisted by an unusual batting style. Of the existing county captains, how many are Test class? Of those already in the squad, who could do the job? It probably comes down to a shortlist of one, featuring Ben Stokes. My preference would be for Root to start taking attacks apart like he used to do. |
Thanks, that is a really insightful post and you make a fair point about work.
I would agree about the captaincy affecting his batting and for that reason I would not want Stokes to be captain neither, as it would be too much of a burden. As has been said the captaincy cupboard is bare. Ideally they would need to be assured of their place but not too much of a key player that it could be detrimental to their game. Or find someone like Gooch where captaincy actually improved his batting. [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 19:18]
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| Cricket tour v SA on 14:23 - Aug 12 with 764 views | isitme |
Team for tomorrow:
Burns
Sibley
Crawley
Root
Pope
Buttler
Woakes
Curran
Bess
Broad
Wood
The weather has been set fair for a while and the forecast is good. Playing in Southampton also helps witb the weather. As for the changes Crawley for Stokes and then Curran and Wood for Anderson and Archer. Wood offers pace and could be important if the pitch is really flat. Curran offers a different angle, helps lengthen the batting line up and is a bit of a golden arm. With the hot weather Bess will be really important and hopefully his accuracy will be a bit bitter. He was a bit unlucky in the first innings as Buttler missed two chances off him. With them coming back from injury give Anderson and Archer a rest this week and play then next week. Hopefully if England win the next test there might be an opportunity to have a look at Lawrence, Robinson and maybe Bracey in the last test.
Here's to England winning the toss tomorrow and batting for two days to set the game up. [Post edited 12 Aug 2020 14:25]
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| Cricket tour v SA on 10:55 - Aug 13 with 689 views | isitme |
An interesting line up. I can see bringing Curran in to lengthen the batting without Stokes, although I am surprised that neither Wood or Archer are playing. I would have thought that their extra pace would have been an asset on what could be a flat pitch. I am even more suprised that Pakistan have gone in with just four frontline bowlers. If England bat long their young seamers could have a heavy workload.
So much for batting first! Hopefully they don't keep us in the field for two days. There is supposed to be some rain forecast for later in the test.
EDIT - Rain forecast throughout the test. [Post edited 13 Aug 2020 10:57]
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