| People without masks in supermarkets... 14:20 - Jul 24 with 5564 views | DorsetIan |
I’d say there were about 300 people in Morrisons this morning, and I counted about 10 not wearing masks.
It’s heartening to see most people are still looking out for each other, but the interesting thing about the 10 is how they are now deliberately identifying themselves as different - Independent free thinkers, more informed about masks and viruses (and probably vaccines) than the other 290 sheep like me in there.
I was watching them. Some looked shifty. Some looked defiant. I’m sure a lot of people were judging them. I know I was.
I have heard of some people being told by the unmasked that we don’t need to wear masks any more. I’m looking forward to somebody making a comment like that to me.
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| People without masks in supermarkets... on 22:33 - Jul 27 with 748 views | Bicester_North |
| People without masks in supermarkets... on 21:41 - Jul 27 by DorsetIan |
OK, so we agree on this: "laws that help a nation function are good and necessary"
And I see that you are not an anarchist.
So why spout nonsense about limitations on freedom being a road to totalitarianism?
You concede that laws (which are necessarily limits on freedom) which help a nation function are OK - and they are therefore presumably a long way from totalitarianism?
But when most sensible, reasonable people in the country take the view that lockdowns and facemasks are necessary for the country to control the virus, and therefore 'function', you think we are all at the beginning of the Long March.
There's a sensible argument to be had about what laws are necessary and we can disagree on where the line between personal freedom and public good should be drawn.
But when you start equating a slightly different point on the line to the beginning of totalitarianism you just demonstrate that you have absolutely no idea what totalitarianism is, and you perhaps need to read around the subject a bit more. The Whisperers by Orlando Figes might be a good start. |
Plenty of reasonable, sensible people also argue that lockdowns cause a lot of excess deaths for many other reasons. | |
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| People without masks in supermarkets... on 23:36 - Jul 27 with 707 views | DorsetIan |
| People without masks in supermarkets... on 22:33 - Jul 27 by Bicester_North |
Plenty of reasonable, sensible people also argue that lockdowns cause a lot of excess deaths for many other reasons. |
They do, and they are correct.
It’s all a balancing act.
But what nobody is trying to do is to lead us towards totalitarianism. That’s conspiracy-theorists bandying around ideas that they know are untrue, because they play well with people who know f*ck all about 20th Century history.
Why they do it and why some people seem to have such a need to believe them is anybody‘s guess. | |
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| People without masks in supermarkets... on 08:23 - Jul 28 with 630 views | Berber |
| People without masks in supermarkets... on 17:03 - Jul 27 by Jellybaby |
It's a great answer if you like communism, if you fancy a Chinese style credit system, if you like unelected technocrats running your country, if you like being told when you can see your family, when you can go for a walk, what country you can and can't visit, it's a great answer if you don't want to have control over what goes in or on to your own body, if you want to cross reference everything you do with a government checklist, it's a great answer if you want a "papers please" society.
Creeping totalitarianism is akin to the frog being slowly boiled alive, but hey apparently as they said in Hot Fuzz, it's for the greater good. |
But you are making all that up. The problems are all in your head. The elected government of this country is calling the shots, sometimes against the advice of some technocrats. None of the regulations are permanent, and actually, similar constraints are being applied throughout the rest of the free “western” world. By your reckoning, most of the free world is going mad. I think it is pretty clear where the imbalanced views are coming from. |  | | |
| People without masks in supermarkets... on 10:08 - Jul 28 with 598 views | Sadoldgit |
| People without masks in supermarkets... on 22:33 - Jul 27 by Bicester_North |
Plenty of reasonable, sensible people also argue that lockdowns cause a lot of excess deaths for many other reasons. |
There will always be deaths no matter how careful we are, but the lockdowns have saved more lives than caused deaths and if we had locked down sooner more lives would have been saved. I find it very odd when people talk up conspiracy theories. When you read about dystopia one of the main things doesn’t seem to be wearing face masks when you go out. As for countries destroying their own economies, why would they do that? If anything handling of the pandemic has not seen us subjected to draconian measures. Perhaps if the “rules” had been tougher more lives would have been saved and we might have got on top of it quicker. I was in my local Tescos yesterday and most of the customers wore masks but there was a fair percentage of younger people not wearing them. Perhaps it’s not a bad thing for the gene pool. |  | | |
| People without masks in supermarkets... on 10:20 - Jul 28 with 595 views | Sadoldgit |
| People without masks in supermarkets... on 19:30 - Jul 27 by Jellybaby |
Ian, it does amuse me that anyone with a contrarian view to you, is asked whether they are an anarchist. However I will humour you with a reply. I am anything but an anarchist; laws that help a nation function are good and necessary, but government over reach leads to tyranny and cruelty as we have witnessed with old people dying alone in care homes unable to say goodbye to their loved ones for example.
A bit like a good ref allows the game to flow, so a government should allow the people as much freedom as possible. Lockdown fanatics appear to prefer an overly officious referee like Mike Dean! I voted Tory all my life as I believed them to be a libertarian party and yet like so many governments around the world, who appear to be working in lockstep, they have given up democracy in a flash.
Your level of trust in governments, big phama and Elites generally is either impressive or incredibly naive, others can decide.
Thanks for the Alexander Pope quote - a salutary reminder that the main stream media do not have the monopoly on truth. |
You only have to look at the behaviour of our own PM and cabinet members at the start of the pandemic, let alone many ordinary members of the public to see that sometimes tough measures have to be brought in to protect the population as a whole. You talk about care homes. If we had been even more protective of them they wouldn’t have become hot beds for the virus and more people may not have died before their time. How would you feel if you went to say goodbye to a loved one with you family and other family members had contracted the virus and become seriously ill or died? The death toll was higher than it could have been precisely because we didn’t clamp down as hard as we should have. When the history of this pandemic is written there should be a sub heading - How Not To Handle A Pandemic. Thank goodness for the vaccines otherwise goodness knows where we would be now, but we still face an uncertain Winter and whilst the infection rate is falling, death rates are going up again so we are not out of the woods yet. Giving people freedom is all well and good, but not the freedom to go around killing other people through ignorance | | | |
| People without masks in supermarkets... on 18:40 - Jul 28 with 541 views | Berber |
| People without masks in supermarkets... on 10:20 - Jul 28 by Sadoldgit |
You only have to look at the behaviour of our own PM and cabinet members at the start of the pandemic, let alone many ordinary members of the public to see that sometimes tough measures have to be brought in to protect the population as a whole. You talk about care homes. If we had been even more protective of them they wouldn’t have become hot beds for the virus and more people may not have died before their time. How would you feel if you went to say goodbye to a loved one with you family and other family members had contracted the virus and become seriously ill or died? The death toll was higher than it could have been precisely because we didn’t clamp down as hard as we should have. When the history of this pandemic is written there should be a sub heading - How Not To Handle A Pandemic. Thank goodness for the vaccines otherwise goodness knows where we would be now, but we still face an uncertain Winter and whilst the infection rate is falling, death rates are going up again so we are not out of the woods yet. Giving people freedom is all well and good, but not the freedom to go around killing other people through ignorance |
SOG, agree most of this answer. Just to say, that the death rate is tracking the positive cases by 9 or 10 days, as usual. It will be interesting if there is a downturn before the end of the week (and the following days) when there is projected to be an upturn in cases resulting from the 19th July slackening. | | | |
| People without masks in supermarkets... on 20:45 - Jul 28 with 505 views | cocklebreath |
| People without masks in supermarkets... on 10:08 - Jul 28 by Sadoldgit |
There will always be deaths no matter how careful we are, but the lockdowns have saved more lives than caused deaths and if we had locked down sooner more lives would have been saved. I find it very odd when people talk up conspiracy theories. When you read about dystopia one of the main things doesn’t seem to be wearing face masks when you go out. As for countries destroying their own economies, why would they do that? If anything handling of the pandemic has not seen us subjected to draconian measures. Perhaps if the “rules” had been tougher more lives would have been saved and we might have got on top of it quicker. I was in my local Tescos yesterday and most of the customers wore masks but there was a fair percentage of younger people not wearing them. Perhaps it’s not a bad thing for the gene pool. |
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