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Dear Lefties
at 14:15 18 Mar 2019

Thanks Basel. I appreciate your reply.

And I am not at all sure what the answer is. Maybe just like we are all left- or right- handed perhaps our broad political tendencies are hard wired with a lot of post hoc justification going on for what we all (differently) have a gut feel for.

And perhaps we are also hard-wired to be tribal so that clinging to our political positions becomes a point of personal honour, which leads to anger, and a desire to paint those who disagree with us in the most divisive and pejorative terms.

To me politicians, newspapers and other commentators who seek to foment such divisions have a lot to answer for. We can disagree too on who they are!!
Forum
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Moaning about Brexit, either way, has been pointless
at 09:13 18 Mar 2019

Why the need to talk in riddles? Why can you not just give a straight answer?

Are the people voting against May's deal - and who are therefore currently blocking Brexit - the traitors?

Or are those like Michael Gove, Andrea Leadsom, Liam Fox and David Davies who are supporting it the traitors?

I'm not trying to wind up anybody. I'm just trying to highlight that maybe all your simplistic talk of 'we voted to leave, just do it' ain't quite as straightforward as you would like to make out.
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Moaning about Brexit, either way, has been pointless
at 08:55 18 Mar 2019

I've asked the same question three times and you haven't answered. I'll put you down as a 'don't know' for now.

Keep up the good work on the traitor-hunting.
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Moaning about Brexit, either way, has been pointless
at 20:59 17 Mar 2019

You still haven't answered the question. Which MPs are the traitors? Those for or those against May's deal?

I don't understand why can't answer. You like simple questions and you are usually so good at identifying traitors.
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Moaning about Brexit, either way, has been pointless
at 20:48 17 Mar 2019

Alright forget about my first questions. But what about the May's deal one's: who are the traitors, the MPs voting for it or against it?

Simple question. Just like in the referendum.
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Moaning about Brexit, either way, has been pointless
at 20:33 17 Mar 2019

It's 'justify to' not 'with'...

...but just as well you don't have to, eh?!
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Moaning about Brexit, either way, has been pointless
at 20:21 17 Mar 2019

Alright, you're not angry. Another question then. Why do you insist on painting everyone who disagrees with you as a traitor or saboteur or not interested in democracy?

How about this one: Is an MP who votes for May's deal a traitor? How about one who votes against it?
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Moaning about Brexit, either way, has been pointless
at 19:58 17 Mar 2019

Why are you so angry?
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Moaning about Brexit, either way, has been pointless
at 19:52 17 Mar 2019

No response on the substantive point, then? No attempt to justify your idiotic claims about Irish geography?

Just the usual off-the-shelf abuse for your today Sir?

I'll tell you what, I always used to wonder what type of people voted in the their millions for Hitler in the 1930s but I'm beginning to get a pretty good idea...

Tw*t.
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Moaning about Brexit, either way, has been pointless
at 19:35 17 Mar 2019

That's an interesting argument Katie. Geography dictates that Irish trade has to come through us and yet the UK's geographical proximity to the EU is of no consequence - the Irish are trapped but we will just trade with the rest of the world - that's the argument is it?
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Dear Lefties
at 10:51 16 Mar 2019

Hi Basel

The problem for those of us who come at this from a different angle is that we see the sort of 'alt-right' views that you yourself might reference (correct me if I have misrepresented you) as being part of the same SORT OF world view that the psychopath in New Zealand might claim - and we think that he's just much much more extreme.

And then on the same day as that massacre I see TCM posting and moaning about too much diversity on Comic Relief ffs.

Help me out here. Is there any possibility of any sort of common ground in this debate?

Ian
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2nd vote
at 09:33 14 Mar 2019

...and yet in your previous post you were happily talking about May having a third or fourth go to get her deal through...

You really are just making it up as you go along.
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2nd vote
at 22:19 13 Mar 2019

Fair play - that post was condescending. Apologies.

I am just sick of the way that leavers insist on characterising anyone who doesn't agree with them as a bed-wetter or traitor or Brexit-blocker or undemocratic or whatever, instead of just addressing the arguments.
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2nd vote
at 21:43 13 Mar 2019

Gosh, what a lot of wishful thinking in one post.

P.S. It is Rees-Mogg and his nutcase mates who have kiboshed Brexit (this week...)
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2nd vote
at 16:23 13 Mar 2019

More leaver cliches. Keep 'em coming...
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2nd vote
at 14:49 13 Mar 2019

We'll find out soon enough.
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2nd vote
at 14:46 13 Mar 2019

It's not me that's claiming to know.

I have said all along that the ENTIRE problem is a result of the ambiguity in how to interpret the Brexit vote.

Like most things in life, people will have voted for a range of reasons. Sure, some will have wanted an ultra hard 'let's just leave' Brexit. Others will have assumed there would be a deal. Others will have had not idea at all what they were voting for.

But the Brexit nutters say that the WHOLE Brexit vote was for a vote for a hard Brexit. That 'people did not vote for this' etc etc

It's all b*llocks - like you imply, how can anyone claim to know with such certainty what the voters actually voted for?
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2nd vote
at 13:02 13 Mar 2019

You've rather proved my point Katie. "...the Brexit nutters saying that 'hard Brexit' is what the people voted for..."

Clearly it wasn't, and the only reason to keep repeating it is because it sets up a nice 'betrayal' narrative (which right wing populists just love) and it avoids having to actually argue positively for a hard brexit, which everyone knows will be a chaotic disaster.
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2nd vote
at 11:53 13 Mar 2019

The Brexit process has now entered cloud cuckoo land with May saving that her deal is what the people voted for (which isn't true) and the Brexit nutters saying that 'hard Brexit' is what the people voted for (which also isn't true) and with Parliament having voted to leave on 29 March and about to vote that that shouldn't happen.

For all those who see all this as a remainer conspiracy orchestrated by 'the elites', grow up. This is simply an alrighty cock up by a monumentally incompetent government.
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DNA testing
at 10:29 10 Mar 2019

Scary version: He is part of some sort of organised right wing propaganda campaign with instructions to spread his ridiculous views on various ‘community’ sites, of which TUI is only one. All the supposedly ‘personal’ nonsense is a crass attempt to disguise himself as somehow ‘normal’.

Likely version: Sad wind up merchant who can’t take no for an answer.
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DorsetIan


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