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Charles Hebdo Latest Edition on 23:42 - Jan 14 by londonlisa2001
The majority of people claiming offence have been brought up in exactly the same secular European countries as the rest of us.
A lot of Moslems claiming offence are 2nd or 3rd generation British. They may have grown up in a family environment where religion is important but to be frank, so did most of us once we look back to our grandparents' generation.
And also, some of those that are claiming to be grossly offended, such is the importance of Islam to them, are to be found, particularly when younger, drinking and partying while hiding it from their families.
The other thing that the most powerful / stable Arab nations have in common of course is the complete absence of any type of freedom of speech or expression, absolutely horrific punishment of those that even slightly step out of line, and the persecution of other religions, women, homosexuals and so on. It is inconceivable that those of a different religion or cultural background would be allowed even a small fraction of the freedom of expression that Moslems enjoy in Europe in those states.
By the way, I am not religious myself, but I still find your categorisation of Europe as a 'godless society' offensive. However, I recognise your right to say it.
So if you're not religious yourself, how does 'godless society' offend you? You're the first person I know who claims to be irreligious but the mention of their society (which I'm glad to be a part of) as godless and secular offends them. I completely fail to see your logic. In fact, your logic mirrors that which you try to describe.
I think you'll find the majority of Muslims in Europe recognise the right of Charlie Hebdo's cartoons, they just find it offensive and so are well within their right to say so.
And your fourth paragraph, I'm in agreement with, it's what I was alluding to which stems from the religious rule of the state.
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Charles Hebdo Latest Edition on 11:57 - Jan 15 with 2076 views
Charles Hebdo Latest Edition on 20:22 - Jan 13 by londonlisa2001
Justification is easily found if someone is looking for it.
Anyone that is able to justify killing someone because of a cartoon printed in a newspaper will be able to find something else if none of them had printed it. It doesn't change what will happen even slightly.
What you say is true, sadly. The barbaric actions of these people know not the meaning of the word freedom, even though they slaughter in it's name. They know not the true meaning of Koran, yet they commit the most horrendous of crimes in it's name. No matter how much the weak willed politicians of Europe try to appease these people, they will always find justification for their barbarism.
The views expressed by so called moderate Muslims if expressed by whites would be considered Far-right. As someone who has no truck with racism I treat people equally so I don't believe in being patronising and giving special treatment. We need to start being more aggressive in celebrating our western values not shying from them. By being Lilly livered we have allowed these apologists to grow in number. There's no doubt nonviolent extremism is on the march and if we give an inch they'll want more and more. If you don't like it there are plenty of airports.
[Post edited 15 Jan 2015 16:23]
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Charles Hebdo Latest Edition on 18:14 - Jan 15 with 1984 views
Charles Hebdo Latest Edition on 19:29 - Jan 13 by exiledclaseboy
I take the point but all visual depictions of Mohammed are apparently offensive to Muslims, the context is irrelevant to them.
Don't give a feck about them, or their being so offended by the pictures that they think it gives them the right to murder in cold blood..........................
Charles Hebdo Latest Edition on 01:45 - Jan 15 by safe_jack
So if you're not religious yourself, how does 'godless society' offend you? You're the first person I know who claims to be irreligious but the mention of their society (which I'm glad to be a part of) as godless and secular offends them. I completely fail to see your logic. In fact, your logic mirrors that which you try to describe.
I think you'll find the majority of Muslims in Europe recognise the right of Charlie Hebdo's cartoons, they just find it offensive and so are well within their right to say so.
And your fourth paragraph, I'm in agreement with, it's what I was alluding to which stems from the religious rule of the state.
Because irrespective of the personal belief or otherwise of an individual, to describe Europe as 'godless' is about as far away from the mark as it is possible to get.
Godless describes an absence of God in society. In describing Europe as such you are dismissing the entire basis of European culture. You are saying that Europe has no God and falling into the trap of thinking that other cultures have a far more ingrained religion that Europe does.
Our entire culture is based on a Judeo-Christian tradition. Our architecture, our art, our music, our laws, our notions of what is acceptable or otherwise in terms of behaviour towards each other, are all firmly rooted in religion, as are our traditions, festivals and family celebrations. The fact that individuals do or do not have a faith, changes nothing.
You previously mentioned that Islam is both a religion and a culture. Well what gives you any reason to suppose that Christianity is any different? I assume from your post that you were brought up in a Muslim household and that faith was important to your family even though you have individually chosen otherwise.
Don't be fooled into believing that people from a Christian tradition are any different or that it is any less important. Even for the non religious, the corner stones of our lives, from birth to death, are dictated by religion.
No individual religion has the right to be 'more' than any other. None should be more important, none should be more 'serious' and none should be regarded as being more important amongst its followers. Equally none should be regarded as above criticism or mockery.
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Charles Hebdo Latest Edition on 16:10 - Jan 16 with 1899 views
Charles Hebdo Latest Edition on 17:36 - Jan 14 by exiledclaseboy
I don't think Hassan is trying to compare the seriousness of these things. It's not about equivalencies. With respect, I think you've missed the point a bit.
Actually, I think he was. Twice in that article he directly compared them and why it would be right to print one and not the other. He even went on to say Germany is a hub of intolerance based on one march in one disaffected Eastern city .. while ignoring the failed marches and massively outnumbered counter marches elsewhere.
Typical Hasan. A few truths ruined by one or two needlessly provocative and outright untrue statements. Shame really ... I agree with a large part of his underlying premise.
Charles Hebdo Latest Edition on 15:48 - Jan 16 by londonlisa2001
Because irrespective of the personal belief or otherwise of an individual, to describe Europe as 'godless' is about as far away from the mark as it is possible to get.
Godless describes an absence of God in society. In describing Europe as such you are dismissing the entire basis of European culture. You are saying that Europe has no God and falling into the trap of thinking that other cultures have a far more ingrained religion that Europe does.
Our entire culture is based on a Judeo-Christian tradition. Our architecture, our art, our music, our laws, our notions of what is acceptable or otherwise in terms of behaviour towards each other, are all firmly rooted in religion, as are our traditions, festivals and family celebrations. The fact that individuals do or do not have a faith, changes nothing.
You previously mentioned that Islam is both a religion and a culture. Well what gives you any reason to suppose that Christianity is any different? I assume from your post that you were brought up in a Muslim household and that faith was important to your family even though you have individually chosen otherwise.
Don't be fooled into believing that people from a Christian tradition are any different or that it is any less important. Even for the non religious, the corner stones of our lives, from birth to death, are dictated by religion.
No individual religion has the right to be 'more' than any other. None should be more important, none should be more 'serious' and none should be regarded as being more important amongst its followers. Equally none should be regarded as above criticism or mockery.
Firstly, may I apologise in how late my response has been. I've been very busy with exams and project work in uni.
I may have used the wrong term, I'll concede to that but I think you know what I meant. Just in case you didn't, I meant that Europe in recent times does not hold religion as a tool for enforcement of our laws or to base our policies on. We now act here in Europe, not in the name of a God or a religion but as individuals.
Yes, I know that Europe's culture was shaped by religion and God, I'm not an idiot. However, Europe is past the stranglehold of the state and religion being one, unlike certain Muslim countries where without religion the stability of the state diminishes, like it would have in Europe before.
Well you're assumption about me is wrong. I was in fact brought up in a Catholic family. I've also lived in the Middle East and in the UK and have witnessed first hand the influence and value that people have of religion. And you'll notice that people in the Middle East, regardless of their faith take religion a lot more seriously than we do in general in the UK.
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