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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK 23:28 - Nov 10 with 1246675 viewspikeypaul



And like a typical anti democracy remoaner he decided the will of the people should be ignored the minute the democratic result was in total fecking hypocrite 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Despite it being voted in to law by the commons the spineless two faced remoaner MPs have totally abandoned any morals and decided to ignore the will of the British people.

It will be remembered and no election or referendum will ever be the same again in this country.

The one thing that will come is a massive surge in the popularity of UKIP or a similar party in the future who stand for the 52%.

Happy Days.

[Post edited 29 Mar 4:37]

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:45 - Oct 17 with 710 viewswestside

DUP ain't supporting the deal 🤔
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:50 - Oct 17 with 695 viewsLeonWasGod

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:45 - Oct 17 by westside

DUP ain't supporting the deal 🤔


Which may be the least of his worries. Even if he gets all the ERG headbangers, the Tory moderates who rebelled last time AND the DUP on board, he still needs another 28 votes to get this through Parliament. May got at most 8 or 9 from Labour & Independents last time.
[Post edited 17 Oct 11:02]
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:50 - Oct 17 with 694 viewswaynekerr55



The useful idiot strikes

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:56 - Oct 17 with 681 viewsJoe_bradshaw

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:45 - Oct 17 by westside

DUP ain't supporting the deal 🤔


Aye but it's the remainers fault apparently.

If only May hadn't screwed up the general election and given the DUP so much power.
If only the Tories hadn't elected May in the first place.
If only the Tories had backed Brexit the day after the referendum with a majority in Parliament and the support of the Labour rebels and others.
If only the Tories hadn't f****d the whole thing up from day one. They've been in power before, during and since the referendum and they've failed to get the job done.

It's all the remainers fault though.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:57 - Oct 17 with 677 viewsJackSomething

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:23 - Oct 17 by Kerouac

"I believe that Jeremy Corbyn is not fit to serve as our Prime Minister. With a general election looming and the possibility of him becoming Prime Minister I feel I have to take a stand. I cannot advocate a government led by Jeremy Corbyn.

Under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, antisemitism has become mainstream in the Labour Party. Jewish members have been bullied, abused and driven out. Anti-semites have felt comfortable and vile conspiracy theories have been propagated. A party that permits anti-Jewish racism to flourish cannot be called 'anti-racist'.

This is not compatible with the Labour Party's values of equality, tolerance and respect for minorities. Shamefully its anti-Jewish racism is now being investigated by one of the last Labour government's proudest creations, the Equality and Human Rights Commission.


ex-Labour MP, Louise Ellman.


Can all the scumbags line up behind Jezza Guevara please.
Cheers.


What's this doing in the Brexit thread?

The only poster I can think of who is a Corbyn supporter is Tommy and I can't remember what his feelings on Brexit are. The others on this thread who support Remain have almost all made it clear they're no fans of Corbyn. Who is also a Brexiteer of course.

Whataboutery at it's finest.

You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocket ship underpants don't help.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:01 - Oct 17 with 587 viewslonglostjack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 10:50 - Oct 17 by LeonWasGod

Which may be the least of his worries. Even if he gets all the ERG headbangers, the Tory moderates who rebelled last time AND the DUP on board, he still needs another 28 votes to get this through Parliament. May got at most 8 or 9 from Labour & Independents last time.
[Post edited 17 Oct 11:02]


I'd wager he'd get more from the Independents and Labour this time. (Thanks in part to Kinnock's mob). I'm guessing a fair few, if not all DUP members, will abstain. He may well get it over the line without a confirmatory referendum needed.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:06 - Oct 17 with 583 viewsUxbridge

I would just like to congratulate Johnson on achieving the impossible. Capitulating on every single one of his red lines whilst also alienating the DUP and returning a deal singularly worse than the one May managed.

Bravo.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:15 - Oct 17 with 562 viewsJonathans_coat

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:06 - Oct 17 by Uxbridge

I would just like to congratulate Johnson on achieving the impossible. Capitulating on every single one of his red lines whilst also alienating the DUP and returning a deal singularly worse than the one May managed.

Bravo.


He says he’s gotten rid of the backstop, which was terrible because it potentially could have kept NI subject to EU regulations and there could be border checks between NI and the rest of the UK........

......... by agreeing that NI WILL be subject to EU regulations and there WILL be border checks between NI and the of the UK!

Fair play, that’s hilarious bullsh*terry at its finest!
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:17 - Oct 17 with 558 viewswaynekerr55

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:01 - Oct 17 by longlostjack

I'd wager he'd get more from the Independents and Labour this time. (Thanks in part to Kinnock's mob). I'm guessing a fair few, if not all DUP members, will abstain. He may well get it over the line without a confirmatory referendum needed.


Sad but true.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:17 - Oct 17 with 554 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:01 - Oct 17 by longlostjack

I'd wager he'd get more from the Independents and Labour this time. (Thanks in part to Kinnock's mob). I'm guessing a fair few, if not all DUP members, will abstain. He may well get it over the line without a confirmatory referendum needed.


I’m not sure why the DUP will abstain.

He’s removed the backstop by putting a border between NI and the rest of the UK and keeping NI permanently part of the EU in economic terms. (I say permanently as it will require the republicans to agree to it ever leaving, which they won’t). Which is, supposedly, what they are most against.

All the spin in the world from Johnson and the idiots in the ERG doesn’t change what’s been agreed.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:20 - Oct 17 with 548 viewsJoe_bradshaw

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:17 - Oct 17 by londonlisa2001

I’m not sure why the DUP will abstain.

He’s removed the backstop by putting a border between NI and the rest of the UK and keeping NI permanently part of the EU in economic terms. (I say permanently as it will require the republicans to agree to it ever leaving, which they won’t). Which is, supposedly, what they are most against.

All the spin in the world from Johnson and the idiots in the ERG doesn’t change what’s been agreed.


So Sinn Fein get to decide whether NI leaves Europe along with GB?

Has no surrender just become surrender?

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:27 - Oct 17 with 529 viewsWingstandwood

Interesting analysis from Nick Robinson!

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:29 - Oct 17 with 521 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:20 - Oct 17 by Joe_bradshaw

So Sinn Fein get to decide whether NI leaves Europe along with GB?

Has no surrender just become surrender?


Effectively, yes.

As they’ve made it an opt out rather than an opt in consent. It’s, effectively, a backstop against NI ever being able to detach itself from the EU. An opt in would work in reverse with the DUP having a veto.

You have to laugh.

One rather sad aspect of all this btw is a complete absence of critical analysis from the media. Kuenssberg, Peston etc are all just parroting the Cummings spin (eg. it’s this deal or no deal, we won’t ask for an extension - that’s illegal so is nonsense, but no questions).
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:32 - Oct 17 with 510 viewslonglostjack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:17 - Oct 17 by londonlisa2001

I’m not sure why the DUP will abstain.

He’s removed the backstop by putting a border between NI and the rest of the UK and keeping NI permanently part of the EU in economic terms. (I say permanently as it will require the republicans to agree to it ever leaving, which they won’t). Which is, supposedly, what they are most against.

All the spin in the world from Johnson and the idiots in the ERG doesn’t change what’s been agreed.


I was just assuming that they would not wish to be seen as the deal breaker as this could lose them votes in the forthcoming election.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:32 - Oct 17 with 507 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:27 - Oct 17 by Wingstandwood

Interesting analysis from Nick Robinson!



We could have left in March as well, but Johnson voted against doing so...

Given Farage and the brexit party are saying he’s capitulated to the EU, I don’t think it’s as easy as ‘win win’. He still needs a manifesto commitment to no deal (loses out to Lib Dems and Labour) or deal (loses out to brexit party). Winning a majority in the general election is not straightforward, hence his desperation at this point to get this deal through.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:33 - Oct 17 with 507 viewswaynekerr55

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:29 - Oct 17 by londonlisa2001

Effectively, yes.

As they’ve made it an opt out rather than an opt in consent. It’s, effectively, a backstop against NI ever being able to detach itself from the EU. An opt in would work in reverse with the DUP having a veto.

You have to laugh.

One rather sad aspect of all this btw is a complete absence of critical analysis from the media. Kuenssberg, Peston etc are all just parroting the Cummings spin (eg. it’s this deal or no deal, we won’t ask for an extension - that’s illegal so is nonsense, but no questions).


It's embarrassing- they should hang their heads in shame

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:38 - Oct 17 with 486 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:32 - Oct 17 by longlostjack

I was just assuming that they would not wish to be seen as the deal breaker as this could lose them votes in the forthcoming election.


If the DUP vote to give the republicans an effective veto over the permanent relationship of NI and the EU, they won’t get any votes in a general election.

I don’t think people understand what’s happened.

The very people who spend Saturday afternoons singing about no surrender are applauding a deal which completely surrenders control of NI. I mean, I think it’s up to the people of NI and demographics mean that NI would always break away at some point, but the conservative and unionist party have just given away NI...
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:41 - Oct 17 with 480 viewslonglostjack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:38 - Oct 17 by londonlisa2001

If the DUP vote to give the republicans an effective veto over the permanent relationship of NI and the EU, they won’t get any votes in a general election.

I don’t think people understand what’s happened.

The very people who spend Saturday afternoons singing about no surrender are applauding a deal which completely surrenders control of NI. I mean, I think it’s up to the people of NI and demographics mean that NI would always break away at some point, but the conservative and unionist party have just given away NI...


I seem to remember that a number of polls have already suggested that a majority of voters in Northern Ireland would prefer to remain in the EU than be part of the UK outside the EU.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/northern-ireland-support-join-ir
[Post edited 17 Oct 12:44]

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:58 - Oct 17 with 439 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:41 - Oct 17 by longlostjack

I seem to remember that a number of polls have already suggested that a majority of voters in Northern Ireland would prefer to remain in the EU than be part of the UK outside the EU.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/northern-ireland-support-join-ir
[Post edited 17 Oct 12:44]


Of course they would. But that’s not the point for the DUP. Their voters are the ones that want to stay within the UK.

And the conservatives are SUPPOSED to want to keep the union together.

On a wider note - polls also suggest a majority of voters throughout the UK would now refer to remain within the EU. It won’t happen as I’ve little doubt this will get through. Because a more self absorbed, useless bunch of hypocritical morons than this Conservative party would be impossible to find.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:10 - Oct 17 with 420 viewswobbly

Not a lot of detail yet So no idea on whether this gets through Parliament.

But the early information does look like Boris Has achieved a number of things that many of the pundits said were impossible:

- no re opening of the Withdrawal agreement? Nope, that obviously appears to have happened

- alternative border check arrangements / checks away from the border are impossible to deliver with current available technology? Nope, that looks to have been explicitly agreed in this WA

- NI cannot stay in the UK customs union and have no hard border with the EU after withdrawal from day 1? Actually, yes you very much can.

This deal does appear to put a lot of sand in the gears of inside UK trade though. Early information suggests this is a slightly better version of the previous, dreadful deal. But not much better!
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:20 - Oct 17 with 393 viewsWarwickHunt

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:20 - Oct 17 by Joe_bradshaw

So Sinn Fein get to decide whether NI leaves Europe along with GB?

Has no surrender just become surrender?


No surrender to the IRA! Oh, hang on...
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:22 - Oct 17 with 386 viewsLeonWasGod

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:10 - Oct 17 by wobbly

Not a lot of detail yet So no idea on whether this gets through Parliament.

But the early information does look like Boris Has achieved a number of things that many of the pundits said were impossible:

- no re opening of the Withdrawal agreement? Nope, that obviously appears to have happened

- alternative border check arrangements / checks away from the border are impossible to deliver with current available technology? Nope, that looks to have been explicitly agreed in this WA

- NI cannot stay in the UK customs union and have no hard border with the EU after withdrawal from day 1? Actually, yes you very much can.

This deal does appear to put a lot of sand in the gears of inside UK trade though. Early information suggests this is a slightly better version of the previous, dreadful deal. But not much better!


Loads of detail - all the documents have been published on the EU website (within 30 minutes of the announcement).

I've started to see Boris get credit for this, but have a number of problems with that line of thinking:

- on point 1, the EU always said they would be willing to consider alternative proposals on the WA as long as they weren't outside the scope of what was already agreed.

- point 2; that discussion was in relation to a border on the mainland of Ireland. So was a different issue. This sidesteps that issue, in that we now effectively transfer the customs checks to the NI or UK ports (presumably, but no detail on this yet)

- NI is now aligned to EU customs union and governed by EU laws in relation to that (and a few other things). Hence still governed by the ECJ too, so that any disputes in EU law can be resolved by the appropriate court. Nobody said it couldn't happen - it was the EU's first suggestion after all.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:23 - Oct 17 with 383 viewsUxbridge

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:10 - Oct 17 by wobbly

Not a lot of detail yet So no idea on whether this gets through Parliament.

But the early information does look like Boris Has achieved a number of things that many of the pundits said were impossible:

- no re opening of the Withdrawal agreement? Nope, that obviously appears to have happened

- alternative border check arrangements / checks away from the border are impossible to deliver with current available technology? Nope, that looks to have been explicitly agreed in this WA

- NI cannot stay in the UK customs union and have no hard border with the EU after withdrawal from day 1? Actually, yes you very much can.

This deal does appear to put a lot of sand in the gears of inside UK trade though. Early information suggests this is a slightly better version of the previous, dreadful deal. But not much better!


The Northern Irish disagree with you. Even Johnson's mates.

He has proven many people wrong in the sense that the deal has changed. What seems to have been missed is that he's capitulated far further than May ever would have. He, to use his own parlance, has surrendured.

He's surprised me. I'll give him that. I didn't think he'd completely row back on everything he's said in the last 12 months and capitulate so spectactularly.

I read that sentence back and I just think "really, you didn't think he'd do that? What about his time in public office, or before, would make you think he'd stick to his professed views now?". This is literally what he always does, isn't it.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:33 - Oct 17 with 349 viewswobbly

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:23 - Oct 17 by Uxbridge

The Northern Irish disagree with you. Even Johnson's mates.

He has proven many people wrong in the sense that the deal has changed. What seems to have been missed is that he's capitulated far further than May ever would have. He, to use his own parlance, has surrendured.

He's surprised me. I'll give him that. I didn't think he'd completely row back on everything he's said in the last 12 months and capitulate so spectactularly.

I read that sentence back and I just think "really, you didn't think he'd do that? What about his time in public office, or before, would make you think he'd stick to his professed views now?". This is literally what he always does, isn't it.


I suspect / fear that actually the NI agree with me. At least the DUP will do - they won’t like the sand in the gears of intra-UK trade because what I mean is that this deal puts a virtual border down the Irish Sea. Will wait for the detail but it’s difficult to see how this does anything but that?
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:35 - Oct 17 with 344 viewslonglostjack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 12:58 - Oct 17 by londonlisa2001

Of course they would. But that’s not the point for the DUP. Their voters are the ones that want to stay within the UK.

And the conservatives are SUPPOSED to want to keep the union together.

On a wider note - polls also suggest a majority of voters throughout the UK would now refer to remain within the EU. It won’t happen as I’ve little doubt this will get through. Because a more self absorbed, useless bunch of hypocritical morons than this Conservative party would be impossible to find.


I concur.

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