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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK 23:28 - Nov 10 with 1251225 viewspikeypaul



And like a typical anti democracy remoaner he decided the will of the people should be ignored the minute the democratic result was in total fecking hypocrite 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Despite it being voted in to law by the commons the spineless two faced remoaner MPs have totally abandoned any morals and decided to ignore the will of the British people.

It will be remembered and no election or referendum will ever be the same again in this country.

The one thing that will come is a massive surge in the popularity of UKIP or a similar party in the future who stand for the 52%.

Happy Days.

[Post edited 29 Mar 4:37]

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:41 - Oct 17 with 572 viewswaynekerr55

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:35 - Oct 17 by longlostjack

I concur.


Helped by useful idiots like Kinnock, Flint et al.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:42 - Oct 17 with 569 viewsmonmouth

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:23 - Oct 17 by Uxbridge

The Northern Irish disagree with you. Even Johnson's mates.

He has proven many people wrong in the sense that the deal has changed. What seems to have been missed is that he's capitulated far further than May ever would have. He, to use his own parlance, has surrendured.

He's surprised me. I'll give him that. I didn't think he'd completely row back on everything he's said in the last 12 months and capitulate so spectactularly.

I read that sentence back and I just think "really, you didn't think he'd do that? What about his time in public office, or before, would make you think he'd stick to his professed views now?". This is literally what he always does, isn't it.


Yep, Surrender Johnson has done what he always does, done what's best for Johnson, just to meet a stupid deadline he imposed on himself. he would do absolutely anything now to get this agreed. Expect bribes galore to get it voted through.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:46 - Oct 17 with 565 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:10 - Oct 17 by wobbly

Not a lot of detail yet So no idea on whether this gets through Parliament.

But the early information does look like Boris Has achieved a number of things that many of the pundits said were impossible:

- no re opening of the Withdrawal agreement? Nope, that obviously appears to have happened

- alternative border check arrangements / checks away from the border are impossible to deliver with current available technology? Nope, that looks to have been explicitly agreed in this WA

- NI cannot stay in the UK customs union and have no hard border with the EU after withdrawal from day 1? Actually, yes you very much can.

This deal does appear to put a lot of sand in the gears of inside UK trade though. Early information suggests this is a slightly better version of the previous, dreadful deal. But not much better!


The full text was published a few hours ago. It’s juts an amendment text to the May deal, as it is the May deal with the NI protocols changed.

The backstop was always ‘open’ - it was never closed and, in fact, wouldn’t be at any point in the future - that’s the whole point.

We don’t need a backstop now because NI will be permanently part of the EU for economic purposes. The backstop was ‘until there’s a solution’ - the solution is creating a border between NI and the rest of the UK. Which is EXACTLY what the EU first asked for, and Chequers agreed, and Johnson resigned over.

There aren’t border checks because there doesn’t need to be a border, because NI is effectively a permanent part of the EU. Which is why the border will now be between NI and the rest of the UK.

NI isn’t staying part of the UK customs territory in anything other than name - it’s part of the EU customs territory economically which is why there are compensation arrangements built in to refund them for goods that never enter the EU.

As for the ‘better than’ - yeah, of course it is, lol. It’s an amendment - that’s why only 64 pages are published - it’s ‘in addition to the 500 plus pages of the May deal’. The one that you describe as ‘dreadful’.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:46 - Oct 17 with 566 viewsUxbridge

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:33 - Oct 17 by wobbly

I suspect / fear that actually the NI agree with me. At least the DUP will do - they won’t like the sand in the gears of intra-UK trade because what I mean is that this deal puts a virtual border down the Irish Sea. Will wait for the detail but it’s difficult to see how this does anything but that?


Oh I completely agree, it does exactly that. It will be an absolute ballache in terms of extra paperwork for each and every business, let alone the costs involved.

No matter how many billions Johnson offered them, and the likes of the FT are reporting it's a damn sight more than the original bung to back up the administration, the DUP couldn't vote for this. It's entirely against their raison d'etre, just like evolution and women's rights.

If this deal passes, and the arithmetic is probably still just against Johnson mainly due to his own actions, it'll be a slippery slope for Norn Iron from hereon out. Their place in the union will be questioned every time as frequently as we have an Olympics, and it will already be semi-separate. There's only one way that ends up. I'd bet the house on Scotland voting out too, assuming there'll be a referendum there, which I'd say is nigh on inevitable. And all under the watch of the supposed Unionist party.
[Post edited 17 Oct 13:48]

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:02 - Oct 17 with 538 viewsWarwickHunt

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:42 - Oct 17 by monmouth

Yep, Surrender Johnson has done what he always does, done what's best for Johnson, just to meet a stupid deadline he imposed on himself. he would do absolutely anything now to get this agreed. Expect bribes galore to get it voted through.


I can see this coming apart quicker than a pair of paper knickers at an orgy.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:11 - Oct 17 with 527 viewsUxbridge

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:02 - Oct 17 by WarwickHunt

I can see this coming apart quicker than a pair of paper knickers at an orgy.


I'm looking forward to seeing the gymnastics the ERG are going to perform as they contort to try and justify this.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:17 - Oct 17 with 506 viewslonglostjack

Or Bluey.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:17 - Oct 17 with 509 viewswobbly

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 13:46 - Oct 17 by Uxbridge

Oh I completely agree, it does exactly that. It will be an absolute ballache in terms of extra paperwork for each and every business, let alone the costs involved.

No matter how many billions Johnson offered them, and the likes of the FT are reporting it's a damn sight more than the original bung to back up the administration, the DUP couldn't vote for this. It's entirely against their raison d'etre, just like evolution and women's rights.

If this deal passes, and the arithmetic is probably still just against Johnson mainly due to his own actions, it'll be a slippery slope for Norn Iron from hereon out. Their place in the union will be questioned every time as frequently as we have an Olympics, and it will already be semi-separate. There's only one way that ends up. I'd bet the house on Scotland voting out too, assuming there'll be a referendum there, which I'd say is nigh on inevitable. And all under the watch of the supposed Unionist party.
[Post edited 17 Oct 13:48]


Yeah, exactly. The DUP say no. The hardest Brexiteers say no. Corbyn says no. Lib Dem’s say no. The arithmetic remains tricky.

Boris gets his get out jail card though. He claims he negotiated a good deal and it was those pesky MPs that blocked it. So not his fault guv and now Parliament have to give him a GE. After 1 November, it will be difficult for parliament to resist that call any further, but Boris has a ready deflector shield for his do or die’ pledge when a delay is asked for.

Boris will get a bump out of this electorally for sure. Makes a GE much more interesting.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:18 - Oct 17 with 503 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:02 - Oct 17 by WarwickHunt

I can see this coming apart quicker than a pair of paper knickers at an orgy.


Letwin’s amendment allowing for the deal to be amended on Saturday has just passed.

Letwin himself has said he’ll vote for the deal, unamended, but it gives a chance of a second referendum to be attached. I still think they don’t have the votes, but you never know after this nonsense.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:22 - Oct 17 with 495 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:17 - Oct 17 by wobbly

Yeah, exactly. The DUP say no. The hardest Brexiteers say no. Corbyn says no. Lib Dem’s say no. The arithmetic remains tricky.

Boris gets his get out jail card though. He claims he negotiated a good deal and it was those pesky MPs that blocked it. So not his fault guv and now Parliament have to give him a GE. After 1 November, it will be difficult for parliament to resist that call any further, but Boris has a ready deflector shield for his do or die’ pledge when a delay is asked for.

Boris will get a bump out of this electorally for sure. Makes a GE much more interesting.


Apart from the brexit party have just said he’s completely surrendered to the EU.

Unless he can get their core vote down quite a way from where it is at the moment, he can’t win a majority. He has at least 10 seats to make up in Scotland, he now has 10 seats he won’t find supporting him from the DUP, he’ll lose loads in London. Where is he going to get the seats from if voters split between him and the Brexit party?
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:26 - Oct 17 with 480 viewswaynekerr55

Junker has just ruled out an extension 🤔

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:26 - Oct 17 with 477 viewsWarwickHunt

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:17 - Oct 17 by wobbly

Yeah, exactly. The DUP say no. The hardest Brexiteers say no. Corbyn says no. Lib Dem’s say no. The arithmetic remains tricky.

Boris gets his get out jail card though. He claims he negotiated a good deal and it was those pesky MPs that blocked it. So not his fault guv and now Parliament have to give him a GE. After 1 November, it will be difficult for parliament to resist that call any further, but Boris has a ready deflector shield for his do or die’ pledge when a delay is asked for.

Boris will get a bump out of this electorally for sure. Makes a GE much more interesting.


Especially as Farage will be peddling the surrender/BRINO line.

This could yet come back to bite him on his ample arse.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:29 - Oct 17 with 465 viewsUxbridge

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:17 - Oct 17 by wobbly

Yeah, exactly. The DUP say no. The hardest Brexiteers say no. Corbyn says no. Lib Dem’s say no. The arithmetic remains tricky.

Boris gets his get out jail card though. He claims he negotiated a good deal and it was those pesky MPs that blocked it. So not his fault guv and now Parliament have to give him a GE. After 1 November, it will be difficult for parliament to resist that call any further, but Boris has a ready deflector shield for his do or die’ pledge when a delay is asked for.

Boris will get a bump out of this electorally for sure. Makes a GE much more interesting.


I don't know, there are a lot of moving parts. With this deal on the table he brings the Brexit Party into the electoral mix, and they'll take a lot of votes away. I think it costs him the chance of a majority. The arithmetic of the seats are generally such that Labour can afford to drop more votes to the Libs than the Tories can afford to drop to the BxP. Best guess at the moment is another hung parliament.

Sooper Saturday could be very interesting and the numbers are so tight on a few things. Every chance we could end up with a vote in favour of the deal and a second ref, neither or just one of them. No idea. If there was any sanity to this, we'd rush through the legislation for a second ref, Deal vs Remain as No Deal is just stupid, hold that in the New Year and have done with the whole thing. I'm almost tempted to have a GE on the same day as a referendum, just for kicks.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:30 - Oct 17 with 461 viewslonglostjack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:26 - Oct 17 by waynekerr55

Junker has just ruled out an extension 🤔


He’s also desperate to go out with a deal. Strange one that. German media were reporting yesterday that Merkel had convinced Macron to agree an extension in the event of a referendum or election.
[Post edited 17 Oct 14:40]

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:30 - Oct 17 with 462 viewsUxbridge

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:26 - Oct 17 by waynekerr55

Junker has just ruled out an extension 🤔


There'll be an extention if we ask for it. I don't doubt that.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:38 - Oct 17 with 441 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:30 - Oct 17 by Uxbridge

There'll be an extention if we ask for it. I don't doubt that.


Juncker ruled out an extension in April as well.

It’s not his decision.

It’s a bit stupid actually if it’s to try to get the deal finalised, as it may get ERG to vote it down thinking they’ll get a no deal.

Edit - actually, I’ve just watched the clip, he doesn’t even say it. He says ‘if we have a deal, there’s no need’. Nothing to do with ‘if we don’t have a deal’. It’s the media reporting garbage yet again.
[Post edited 17 Oct 14:43]
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:43 - Oct 17 with 420 viewsUxbridge

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:38 - Oct 17 by londonlisa2001

Juncker ruled out an extension in April as well.

It’s not his decision.

It’s a bit stupid actually if it’s to try to get the deal finalised, as it may get ERG to vote it down thinking they’ll get a no deal.

Edit - actually, I’ve just watched the clip, he doesn’t even say it. He says ‘if we have a deal, there’s no need’. Nothing to do with ‘if we don’t have a deal’. It’s the media reporting garbage yet again.
[Post edited 17 Oct 14:43]


Indeed it isn't. I was going to say Juncker may be playing a clever double-bluff, but I don't think he's that clever.

More I think about this, the more I think the odds of this passing on Saturday are slim.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:45 - Oct 17 with 408 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:43 - Oct 17 by Uxbridge

Indeed it isn't. I was going to say Juncker may be playing a clever double-bluff, but I don't think he's that clever.

More I think about this, the more I think the odds of this passing on Saturday are slim.


I think it will pass to be honest.

The only thing I’m not certain of, is rumours saying they may attach a referendum and may have the votes, I’d be surprised to be honest though.

I suspect it will pass as is, and the whole focus will be on our future relationship, which will depend on a general election.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:48 - Oct 17 with 406 viewswobbly

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:29 - Oct 17 by Uxbridge

I don't know, there are a lot of moving parts. With this deal on the table he brings the Brexit Party into the electoral mix, and they'll take a lot of votes away. I think it costs him the chance of a majority. The arithmetic of the seats are generally such that Labour can afford to drop more votes to the Libs than the Tories can afford to drop to the BxP. Best guess at the moment is another hung parliament.

Sooper Saturday could be very interesting and the numbers are so tight on a few things. Every chance we could end up with a vote in favour of the deal and a second ref, neither or just one of them. No idea. If there was any sanity to this, we'd rush through the legislation for a second ref, Deal vs Remain as No Deal is just stupid, hold that in the New Year and have done with the whole thing. I'm almost tempted to have a GE on the same day as a referendum, just for kicks.


True that. But we now have a 3 way split with parties that have a clear position on Brexit:

- Brexit Party. No deal and leave.
- Tories. Boris’ super shiny deal which is definitely better than any other deal Theresa had come up with previously that Boris voted against. For sure.
- Lib Dems. Revoke and remain.

Labour are still all over the shop on their position and are unlikely to come up with a clear position by GE.

I completely agree with your analysis but for those that want this 3 years of nonsense done with, which of the 3 positions above do you vote for? Spun right, Boris has the potential to get some cut through there.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:48 - Oct 17 with 405 viewsUxbridge

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:45 - Oct 17 by londonlisa2001

I think it will pass to be honest.

The only thing I’m not certain of, is rumours saying they may attach a referendum and may have the votes, I’d be surprised to be honest though.

I suspect it will pass as is, and the whole focus will be on our future relationship, which will depend on a general election.


We'll find out soon enough. It's close either way.

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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:50 - Oct 17 with 399 viewsHighjack

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:26 - Oct 17 by waynekerr55

Junker has just ruled out an extension 🤔


His house is big enough already.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:54 - Oct 17 with 372 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:48 - Oct 17 by Uxbridge

We'll find out soon enough. It's close either way.


It is indeed.

Obviously I hope it gets amended with a referendum...
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:55 - Oct 17 with 369 viewsbluey_the_blue

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:43 - Oct 17 by Uxbridge

Indeed it isn't. I was going to say Juncker may be playing a clever double-bluff, but I don't think he's that clever.

More I think about this, the more I think the odds of this passing on Saturday are slim.


WTO rules it is then.
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:56 - Oct 17 with 368 viewsLeonWasGod

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:50 - Oct 17 by Highjack

His house is big enough already.


The wine cellar could do with an upgrade though
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Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 15:19 - Oct 17 with 317 viewslondonlisa2001

Countdown to the end of Democracy in the UK on 14:55 - Oct 17 by bluey_the_blue

WTO rules it is then.


Why?

If it doesn’t pass, we’ll probably be into second referendum territory.
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