| What is a convertable loan note? Pros and cons on 18:17 - Dec 30 with 843 views | Chief |
| What is a convertable loan note? Pros and cons on 17:11 - Dec 30 by ReslovenSwan1 |
They are making life no more trouble for mr Winter which is good and at least saying the right things. This is their modus operandi. Thier annoucement on line are not so constructive.
The CLN suggests they have been making more agreements in the dark coridors of power. Agreement for their own dilutiion as they are not capable of contributing due to past mismanagement.
"These are the worst owners out there". Come off it. Sheffield Wednesday players have seen missed slaary payments. Wigan had a brutal fire sale (a real one). These owners have put £5-10m of their own money into the club and fulfilled all their obligations including relaying the pitch (not cheap) and maintaining the stadium. Selling is not even on the agenda. They will probably not even ask for the money back . Proper investment.
Investment most Trust supporters said would never happen. When it does it labelled laughably as "cash dumping" and a get rich quick scam. Like I say it must have already been agreed by the Trust. |
- Their online announcements update members what's going on at the club. Not wrong with that. If something has occurred that they do not agree with, they tell the members. Why should they shield the Americans from questionable decisions as and when they occur?
- Do you have any evidence of any CLN agreement? They are a supporters trust, not American hedgefund and gamblers.
- hahahaha i suggest you read my posts clearly before quoting me.
- Well they took on the gamble of maintaining the stadium without obviously carrying out due diligence as evidenced by them trying to squirm out of carrying out such tasks and the subsequent court case which they lost. So I'm not going to give them much credit on that front! The pitch is a strange one too, difficult to comment because we don't know the full circumstances but should the firm who laid it last have paid for it? Was it under guarantee? Was it insured? There's been suggestions they cheap skated on its care by not employing suitably qualified staff too. So best leave this topic out of this thread. Such tasks of course should and can be paid for out of the club's funds easily.
- As above, do you have any evidence the trust have agreed to any of this? Suggest you read this:
https://www.swanstrust.co.uk/2 [Post edited 30 Dec 2020 18:21]
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| What is a convertable loan note? Pros and cons on 20:01 - Dec 30 with 804 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| What is a convertable loan note? Pros and cons on 18:17 - Dec 30 by Chief |
- Their online announcements update members what's going on at the club. Not wrong with that. If something has occurred that they do not agree with, they tell the members. Why should they shield the Americans from questionable decisions as and when they occur?
- Do you have any evidence of any CLN agreement? They are a supporters trust, not American hedgefund and gamblers.
- hahahaha i suggest you read my posts clearly before quoting me.
- Well they took on the gamble of maintaining the stadium without obviously carrying out due diligence as evidenced by them trying to squirm out of carrying out such tasks and the subsequent court case which they lost. So I'm not going to give them much credit on that front! The pitch is a strange one too, difficult to comment because we don't know the full circumstances but should the firm who laid it last have paid for it? Was it under guarantee? Was it insured? There's been suggestions they cheap skated on its care by not employing suitably qualified staff too. So best leave this topic out of this thread. Such tasks of course should and can be paid for out of the club's funds easily.
- As above, do you have any evidence the trust have agreed to any of this? Suggest you read this:
https://www.swanstrust.co.uk/2 [Post edited 30 Dec 2020 18:21]
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The Companies House deal and Mr Winter s statement says that the CLN has gone ahead. From the submission I posted this means they must have come to an agreement. Your Trust post is 4 months out of date. Its a pity they only flag up areas of conflict.
I like agrreement and constructive working relationship. I would also like a statement from the Trust that they no longger propose to baiil out and will endevour they best to support the major shareholders in this difficult time. They are not in existence to enrich third party London outsiders.
Maintenance is not an option or a gamble. It is a responsibility. The pre US club was effectively fleecing the Swansea ratepayers many of them with no inteterst in football whatsoever. They claimed against the developer but lost that case.
The pitch matter has been resolved there was some talk of a biological issue of some sort. You no doubt can get that information off the Trust. |  |
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| What is a convertable loan note? Pros and cons on 20:17 - Dec 30 with 796 views | BillyChong |
| What is a convertable loan note? Pros and cons on 13:17 - Dec 26 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I have found following Swansea city quite educational over the last few years. As a small scale investor myself I tend to see things from the investors point of view rather that the end user on the terraces. Remember the Trust is an investor not a auditor or assessor or trade union.
These are the things I have learned.
a) What is Hedge fund.
b) Tag on and drag on agreements
c) What is a convertable loan note.
d) Delaware is the Swiss version of US banking w.r.t. privacy.
e) I have learned about the MLS and DC United a little bit.
f) Non disclosure agreements.
g) The workings of football Trusts and constitutions.
h) The mentatality of fans ownership and their discomfort at making profits.
I would like to know what the conditions are. Could it be related to the Trust's legal case? |
Have you learned anything about shareholders agreements? |  | | |
| What is a convertable loan note? Pros and cons on 21:00 - Dec 30 with 790 views | Chief |
| What is a convertable loan note? Pros and cons on 20:01 - Dec 30 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The Companies House deal and Mr Winter s statement says that the CLN has gone ahead. From the submission I posted this means they must have come to an agreement. Your Trust post is 4 months out of date. Its a pity they only flag up areas of conflict.
I like agrreement and constructive working relationship. I would also like a statement from the Trust that they no longger propose to baiil out and will endevour they best to support the major shareholders in this difficult time. They are not in existence to enrich third party London outsiders.
Maintenance is not an option or a gamble. It is a responsibility. The pre US club was effectively fleecing the Swansea ratepayers many of them with no inteterst in football whatsoever. They claimed against the developer but lost that case.
The pitch matter has been resolved there was some talk of a biological issue of some sort. You no doubt can get that information off the Trust. |
- Yea I'm not disputing his loan has come through. Are you sure though that it needed to be agreed with all shareholders?
- here's an even more recent update where there's still no talk of any agreement: https://www.swanstrust.co.uk/2
- in there you'll note they praise the appointments to the board of the other two men, making a mockery of the last sentence of your first paragraph.
- Winter has confirmed the trust are working closely with the board. The trust has confirmed the same. By your logic they won't be bailing out anyway because there's no case to answer. They are not in existence to support the major shareholders.
- Yes they discovered that maintenence is indeed a responsibility in a silly and embarrassing manner unfortunately. We don't know all the figures etc but the council won't have done badly out of the liberty over the years I suspect. The Swans are only one of a host of revebue my streams for the council linked to the stadium (or were). Not sure how much we know pay to lease it.
- yes some disease. Or maybe the club could provide insight if you need it that much. | |
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| What is a convertable loan note? Pros and cons on 21:33 - Dec 30 with 785 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| What is a convertable loan note? Pros and cons on 21:00 - Dec 30 by Chief |
- Yea I'm not disputing his loan has come through. Are you sure though that it needed to be agreed with all shareholders?
- here's an even more recent update where there's still no talk of any agreement: https://www.swanstrust.co.uk/2
- in there you'll note they praise the appointments to the board of the other two men, making a mockery of the last sentence of your first paragraph.
- Winter has confirmed the trust are working closely with the board. The trust has confirmed the same. By your logic they won't be bailing out anyway because there's no case to answer. They are not in existence to support the major shareholders.
- Yes they discovered that maintenence is indeed a responsibility in a silly and embarrassing manner unfortunately. We don't know all the figures etc but the council won't have done badly out of the liberty over the years I suspect. The Swans are only one of a host of revebue my streams for the council linked to the stadium (or were). Not sure how much we know pay to lease it.
- yes some disease. Or maybe the club could provide insight if you need it that much. |
Given that the CLN is a significant amount of money (at least £5m possibly upt £10m) I woukd assume the Trust already know about it at least.
If they are working closely with Mr Winter in a good spirit of cooperation they must be aware of the amount of cash sitting in the acounts and the terms of that loan. II read somewhere they had held discussions with Mr Silverstein.
I read somewhere that previous to the stadium takeover the council had made nothing out of the stadium. I recall the head of the council annoucing how pleased he was for the hard press taxpayer at the new deal. Swansea city have been of course a good asset for the city especially vizavi tourism, advertisment hotels etc form the time in the Premier league. | |
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| What is a convertable loan note? Pros and cons on 22:04 - Dec 30 with 780 views | Chief |
| What is a convertable loan note? Pros and cons on 21:33 - Dec 30 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Given that the CLN is a significant amount of money (at least £5m possibly upt £10m) I woukd assume the Trust already know about it at least.
If they are working closely with Mr Winter in a good spirit of cooperation they must be aware of the amount of cash sitting in the acounts and the terms of that loan. II read somewhere they had held discussions with Mr Silverstein.
I read somewhere that previous to the stadium takeover the council had made nothing out of the stadium. I recall the head of the council annoucing how pleased he was for the hard press taxpayer at the new deal. Swansea city have been of course a good asset for the city especially vizavi tourism, advertisment hotels etc form the time in the Premier league. |
- Know about what? The link i sent you states they knew nothing of it prior to it being announced.
- They may potentially know. But remember the Americans have been secretive in the past (NDA demands to see documents etc) so it doesn't surprise me if the details haven't been shared. The second link i sent was two months on and nothing had changed.
- They may have held discussions, may know the details. Neither means they agreed to this happening.
- for the overall economy of the region (even if the council haven't yet directly received back their spend), there's no doubt the stadiums been a success. | |
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| What is a convertable loan note? Pros and cons on 13:36 - Dec 31 with 743 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| What is a convertable loan note? Pros and cons on 22:04 - Dec 30 by Chief |
- Know about what? The link i sent you states they knew nothing of it prior to it being announced.
- They may potentially know. But remember the Americans have been secretive in the past (NDA demands to see documents etc) so it doesn't surprise me if the details haven't been shared. The second link i sent was two months on and nothing had changed.
- They may have held discussions, may know the details. Neither means they agreed to this happening.
- for the overall economy of the region (even if the council haven't yet directly received back their spend), there's no doubt the stadiums been a success. |
They cannot possibly be working constructively if the US leadership and the Trust are not sharing information about the CLN. It affects the minor shareholders directly. The Trust will have to agree as the club needs the money without it, the club might default. The Trust of course does not have to publicise its agreement.
Swansea council leader said this in 2018.
"This is a deal that benefits both the Swans and Ospreys by providing them with the freedom to commercial the stadium," said council leader Rob Stewart.
"And the council tax payers who will not only receive an income, but also additional money from any stadium naming rights and shirt sponsor deals will help deliver new 3G pitches across the authority."
BBC said this was £300,000 per annum plus a share of some sponsorship and naming rights. £300,000 is 1.1% return on £27m. This is £11m over the 37 year lease. This will seem a lot but again it allowing for inflation and after 20 years or so the 300k will be next to nothing.
The US owners effectively took the club off the taxpayers purse. This is a good thing, morally but bad for the club in the short term in view of the Covid situation. . [Post edited 31 Dec 2020 15:41]
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| What is a convertable loan note? Pros and cons on 15:55 - Dec 31 with 720 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| What is a convertable loan note? Pros and cons on 20:17 - Dec 30 by BillyChong |
Have you learned anything about shareholders agreements? |
Yes but have never see the one Swansea city had. What does the SHA say Billy?
Heresay, suggests it obligated the sellers to offer their shares to the Trust first and there were no 'drag on' or 'tag on' clauses. Perhaps this forum could get an legal expert to see it and comment?
From my understanding if you sign a 'tag on' clause this ensures that you cannot be left out of a sale. Howerer you are likely to have to agree a 'drag on' clause as well meaning you have to sell at a price agreed by the majority and cannot opt out. This may have been a sticking point later. | |
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| What is a convertable loan note? Pros and cons on 16:05 - Dec 31 with 719 views | Chief |
| What is a convertable loan note? Pros and cons on 13:36 - Dec 31 by ReslovenSwan1 |
They cannot possibly be working constructively if the US leadership and the Trust are not sharing information about the CLN. It affects the minor shareholders directly. The Trust will have to agree as the club needs the money without it, the club might default. The Trust of course does not have to publicise its agreement.
Swansea council leader said this in 2018.
"This is a deal that benefits both the Swans and Ospreys by providing them with the freedom to commercial the stadium," said council leader Rob Stewart.
"And the council tax payers who will not only receive an income, but also additional money from any stadium naming rights and shirt sponsor deals will help deliver new 3G pitches across the authority."
BBC said this was £300,000 per annum plus a share of some sponsorship and naming rights. £300,000 is 1.1% return on £27m. This is £11m over the 37 year lease. This will seem a lot but again it allowing for inflation and after 20 years or so the 300k will be next to nothing.
The US owners effectively took the club off the taxpayers purse. This is a good thing, morally but bad for the club in the short term in view of the Covid situation. . [Post edited 31 Dec 2020 15:41]
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- Winter and the trust are both saying they are working well together. Whether the American based owners and Silverstein are sharing any of details of this loan with any of the other shareholders is unclear. Certainly, they hadn't by October, a few months after it had been announced in the press.
- As minority shareholder the trust might be powerless to stop it, which judging by their statement is what they'd presumably want to do.
- Winter said the club was not in debt and sale of Rodon will see us through this period. To suggest the club might default if we hadn't had this loan is yet more preposterous nonsense.
- don't know what to make about that other comment. The trust send regular updates on events surrounding the club so if there's more news on the matter why wouldn't they share it? | |
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| What is a convertable loan note? Pros and cons on 17:48 - Dec 31 with 704 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| What is a convertable loan note? Pros and cons on 16:05 - Dec 31 by Chief |
- Winter and the trust are both saying they are working well together. Whether the American based owners and Silverstein are sharing any of details of this loan with any of the other shareholders is unclear. Certainly, they hadn't by October, a few months after it had been announced in the press.
- As minority shareholder the trust might be powerless to stop it, which judging by their statement is what they'd presumably want to do.
- Winter said the club was not in debt and sale of Rodon will see us through this period. To suggest the club might default if we hadn't had this loan is yet more preposterous nonsense.
- don't know what to make about that other comment. The trust send regular updates on events surrounding the club so if there's more news on the matter why wouldn't they share it? |
Winter clearly stated that the CLN was helping to stabilise the clubs financices in these unprecedented times in the short to mid term. So 'preposterous nonsense' it aint
You should consider the following.
The CLN was before the Rodon transfer.
Transfer fees are normally paid in installments.
The lower than expected transfer fee may be because Swansea wanted more up front cash.
The fans have been calling for cash investment for years. It is likely it has now arrived.
The terms of the investment must be known by the other shareholders I would think in the form of obligatory UK business regulations. it is not clear if the Welsh minor investors were offered the chance to join the CLN scheme. I have bought 'A' shares myself in Royal Dutch Shell. This was my right and a (very) minor shareholder.
The Trust are in a difficult position if they object to the CLN if it is being used to stabilise the club. If the loan was cashed in immediately after objection it would presumably destabilise the club. | |
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| What is a convertable loan note? Pros and cons on 00:41 - Jan 1 with 688 views | Chief |
| What is a convertable loan note? Pros and cons on 17:48 - Dec 31 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Winter clearly stated that the CLN was helping to stabilise the clubs financices in these unprecedented times in the short to mid term. So 'preposterous nonsense' it aint
You should consider the following.
The CLN was before the Rodon transfer.
Transfer fees are normally paid in installments.
The lower than expected transfer fee may be because Swansea wanted more up front cash.
The fans have been calling for cash investment for years. It is likely it has now arrived.
The terms of the investment must be known by the other shareholders I would think in the form of obligatory UK business regulations. it is not clear if the Welsh minor investors were offered the chance to join the CLN scheme. I have bought 'A' shares myself in Royal Dutch Shell. This was my right and a (very) minor shareholder.
The Trust are in a difficult position if they object to the CLN if it is being used to stabilise the club. If the loan was cashed in immediately after objection it would presumably destabilise the club. |
- it really is, Winters said we had no debt and have since sold a player for 11mill quid. To say we'd be in dire financial trouble when our chief executive is saying otherwise is bizarre.
- Yes so getting some of that fee up front means we shouldn't need any loan burdening the club. Well we have no idea when this CLN was agreed (if at all - we don't actually know if your buzzword CLN is going to happen - its currently a loan) which went through long after Rodon left.
- fans have not been calling for loans from random Americans at unknown interest rates and conditions.
- the terms were not known when the loan by Silverstein was made public or indeed by two months later. There's not even any evidence the details are known by anyone other than Silverstein and the Americans across the Atlantic.
- No, that's just you twisting the situation and the trust's sensible and understandable stance to use as a weapon against them if this were to occur. Our own Chief Exec said the club was stable and since then we've received transfer fees, so sorry that one won't wash. This is like Dan James - who evidently did not need to be sold to Leeds despite what the Americans tried to spout about it. | |
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