| Be honest 21:18 - Nov 12 with 4563 views | builthjack |
If back in August you were told we would be equal 6th going into the World Cup break, would you have been happy?
I would have been. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Be honest on 13:16 - Nov 13 with 571 views | onehunglow |
| Be honest on 13:13 - Nov 13 by mart66 |
Thats through choice and design though, anyone with pace has either been phased out of the squad or has been shunned altogether.
Oko-Flex is incredibly direct, a defenders nightmare. The more direct he is, the more annoyed Martin gets with him. Pretty much everyone Martin falls out with has a direct football mentality. That’s because his ideas and their skillset do not align, there is a clear clash and there is no room for compromise.
When we do play direct, Obafemi shines as he plays on the shoulder of the defender and gets passes fed to him by Piroe, Grimes, Pato (when he’s allowed to play) and even Cabango. When we play short at all costs, that’s when Oba is largely ineffective. |
That s honest alright
Well done |  |
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| Be honest on 13:36 - Nov 13 with 549 views | Fireboy2 |
| Be honest on 13:13 - Nov 13 by mart66 |
Thats through choice and design though, anyone with pace has either been phased out of the squad or has been shunned altogether.
Oko-Flex is incredibly direct, a defenders nightmare. The more direct he is, the more annoyed Martin gets with him. Pretty much everyone Martin falls out with has a direct football mentality. That’s because his ideas and their skillset do not align, there is a clear clash and there is no room for compromise.
When we do play direct, Obafemi shines as he plays on the shoulder of the defender and gets passes fed to him by Piroe, Grimes, Pato (when he’s allowed to play) and even Cabango. When we play short at all costs, that’s when Oba is largely ineffective. |
Iirc the only ones that Martin has 'fallen out' with is Obafemi and piroe, who else has he fallen out with? |  | | |
| Be honest on 13:50 - Nov 13 with 544 views | mart66 |
| Be honest on 13:36 - Nov 13 by Fireboy2 |
Iirc the only ones that Martin has 'fallen out' with is Obafemi and piroe, who else has he fallen out with? |
Ogbeta and Pato he has fallen out with, as well as publicly dressing down Oko-Flex and hooking him for “not following instructions” when it was clear to all he was the only person who looked likely to do anything attacking for us, he was just direct when Martin wanted the slow stuff.
Then sent pacy forwards out on loan in Whittaker and Joseph. One of his first bits of business here was also to ship out Lowe. Direct players aren’t his thing, which is why we have a central midfield consisting of Joe Allen and Matt Grimes. We have no dynamic link now Pato is shunned. [Post edited 13 Nov 2022 13:55]
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| Be honest on 13:59 - Nov 13 with 527 views | Boundy |
| Be honest on 22:31 - Nov 12 by builthjack |
Is it 2 defeats in the last 11 games.? |
Hence I included performances | |
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| Be honest on 14:09 - Nov 13 with 513 views | onehunglow |
| Be honest on 13:50 - Nov 13 by mart66 |
Ogbeta and Pato he has fallen out with, as well as publicly dressing down Oko-Flex and hooking him for “not following instructions” when it was clear to all he was the only person who looked likely to do anything attacking for us, he was just direct when Martin wanted the slow stuff.
Then sent pacy forwards out on loan in Whittaker and Joseph. One of his first bits of business here was also to ship out Lowe. Direct players aren’t his thing, which is why we have a central midfield consisting of Joe Allen and Matt Grimes. We have no dynamic link now Pato is shunned. [Post edited 13 Nov 2022 13:55]
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Stop reading my mind ,man
Both Whits and Joseph have pace ,like Flex. Now,it really should be obvious Russ really doesn’t like it.
God help us | |
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| Be honest on 14:12 - Nov 13 with 507 views | mart66 |
| Be honest on 13:59 - Nov 13 by Boundy |
Hence I included performances |
Number of defeats mean very little.
You can go undefeated all season and still be relegated on 46 points. Charlton and Wigan both went down a couple of seasons ago from the Championship on more points than that, so it’s not a mark of success unless you are avoiding those defeats by regularly winning.
The point of professional sport is to win, not avoid defeat. Which is why you only get 1 point for a draw.
To answer the OP, we aren’t equal 6th. If the season finished today we would not be a playoff team, the league is split by more than points gained.
I would rather be 15th knowing that we are going to play a proven and successful way after the World Cup giving ourselves every chance of a late push…. than be 8th and pretty sure we are going to continue to play the Martinball stuff until we are knocking on the door of relegation battle again and he temporarily changes it back to get us some breathing room.
One seems like a way forward and a chance of progression, then other feels like a complete waste of time and energy. | |
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| Be honest on 14:18 - Nov 13 with 504 views | RichardO |
| Be honest on 14:09 - Nov 13 by onehunglow |
Stop reading my mind ,man
Both Whits and Joseph have pace ,like Flex. Now,it really should be obvious Russ really doesn’t like it.
God help us |
Don't forget Congreve, when he has come on out wide he has attacked the fullback inside and out with some success but Martin played him out of positionin the middle, 30 mins later 2 nil down he hooks him instead of playing him out wide haven't see much of him since.
If you you're playing to create space to exploit then you must have players capable of more than a backward pass. | | | |
| Be honest on 14:30 - Nov 13 with 490 views | mart66 |
| Be honest on 14:18 - Nov 13 by RichardO |
Don't forget Congreve, when he has come on out wide he has attacked the fullback inside and out with some success but Martin played him out of positionin the middle, 30 mins later 2 nil down he hooks him instead of playing him out wide haven't see much of him since.
If you you're playing to create space to exploit then you must have players capable of more than a backward pass. |
Forgot he existed, which sort of says it all. | |
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| Be honest on 14:51 - Nov 13 with 479 views | onehunglow |
| Be honest on 14:18 - Nov 13 by RichardO |
Don't forget Congreve, when he has come on out wide he has attacked the fullback inside and out with some success but Martin played him out of positionin the middle, 30 mins later 2 nil down he hooks him instead of playing him out wide haven't see much of him since.
If you you're playing to create space to exploit then you must have players capable of more than a backward pass. |
We have but they don’t | |
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| Be honest on 14:53 - Nov 13 with 479 views | Boundy |
| Be honest on 22:38 - Nov 12 by builthjack |
I would have been happy.
Some of our “fans” think we should be walking this league. Deluded they are. |
A decent question asked but If you didn't like the opposing opinion (to yours ) then why ask the question and was it necessary to put fans in brackets and deluded unless of course only your opinion counts ? | |
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| Be honest on 15:00 - Nov 13 with 470 views | onehunglow |
| Be honest on 14:53 - Nov 13 by Boundy |
A decent question asked but If you didn't like the opposing opinion (to yours ) then why ask the question and was it necessary to put fans in brackets and deluded unless of course only your opinion counts ? |
It’s called being obsequious,cywtching up to a moderator ,saying the “ right” things.
Martin and the team are criticised by most of us YET some posters first thought is to insult those they ve held a grudge against for years .
Obvious innit.
Be honest indeed . | |
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| Be honest on 15:03 - Nov 13 with 466 views | KeithHaynes |
| Be honest on 22:38 - Nov 12 by builthjack |
I would have been happy.
Some of our “fans” think we should be walking this league. Deluded they are. |
In a lopsided way that a compliment to Martin, like him or not. |  |
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| Be honest on 15:07 - Nov 13 with 465 views | jack247 |
| Be honest on 11:51 - Nov 13 by mart66 |
By stretching them.
Play width and pace, fast passes of all lengths switching attacks from side to side pulling them out of position. Shoot from long range and take advantage of the bodies in front. Have someone such as Obafemi playing on the shoulder of the defensive line making it difficult for them to step out to meet the width, the second they do then play behind the line directly.
What we should not do, is play 3 yard passes back and forth to each other incredibly slowly, in a central position allowing the opposition to remain in their rigid positions. In those instances Russell seems mildly relieved that the possession and pass numbers are guaranteed despite the chances of winning not being increased.
For anyone who says they can see what he’s trying to do. Well the last game he said we played “brilliantly”. What he is trying to get us playing like is what we saw against Huddersfield and it was horrendous. |
To answer you properly, we do play with width. The two wing backs are always near the touchline. Persisting with Lati against teams that set up defensively irks me though. Full backs must be happy when they see his name on the sheet.
Obafemi is rendered fairly useless against teams that defend so deeply. He’s great against a high line or a team who is chasing a goal. Shooting from distance now and then is reasonable enough. Ntcham has a couple from a decent range and as you say, it often unsights the keeper or causes a scramble which can be hard to defend.
I can’t see what he’s trying to do personally. Martinball v1 was ineffective. Martinball v2 worked for a while, but has now been sussed by teams happy with a point. He needs to find a way around that and at the moment, doesn’t look to have the answer. | | | |
| Be honest on 15:10 - Nov 13 with 464 views | onehunglow |
| Be honest on 15:07 - Nov 13 by jack247 |
To answer you properly, we do play with width. The two wing backs are always near the touchline. Persisting with Lati against teams that set up defensively irks me though. Full backs must be happy when they see his name on the sheet.
Obafemi is rendered fairly useless against teams that defend so deeply. He’s great against a high line or a team who is chasing a goal. Shooting from distance now and then is reasonable enough. Ntcham has a couple from a decent range and as you say, it often unsights the keeper or causes a scramble which can be hard to defend.
I can’t see what he’s trying to do personally. Martinball v1 was ineffective. Martinball v2 worked for a while, but has now been sussed by teams happy with a point. He needs to find a way around that and at the moment, doesn’t look to have the answer. |
Good critique that | |
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| Be honest on 15:20 - Nov 13 with 448 views | KeithHaynes |
| Be honest on 15:07 - Nov 13 by jack247 |
To answer you properly, we do play with width. The two wing backs are always near the touchline. Persisting with Lati against teams that set up defensively irks me though. Full backs must be happy when they see his name on the sheet.
Obafemi is rendered fairly useless against teams that defend so deeply. He’s great against a high line or a team who is chasing a goal. Shooting from distance now and then is reasonable enough. Ntcham has a couple from a decent range and as you say, it often unsights the keeper or causes a scramble which can be hard to defend.
I can’t see what he’s trying to do personally. Martinball v1 was ineffective. Martinball v2 worked for a while, but has now been sussed by teams happy with a point. He needs to find a way around that and at the moment, doesn’t look to have the answer. |
He was free on the break yesterday on two occasions he messed both up.
He could have gone all the way.
And yes we should have scored three.
I’ll give Martin this we are so close to being excellent, but IMO not that far away from being the opposite. | |
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| Be honest on 15:31 - Nov 13 with 441 views | Boundy |
| Be honest on 15:00 - Nov 13 by onehunglow |
It’s called being obsequious,cywtching up to a moderator ,saying the “ right” things.
Martin and the team are criticised by most of us YET some posters first thought is to insult those they ve held a grudge against for years .
Obvious innit.
Be honest indeed . |
Like I posted a decent question to ask , I'm just surprised at how some responses have been presented | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Be honest on 15:31 - Nov 13 with 440 views | mart66 |
| Be honest on 15:07 - Nov 13 by jack247 |
To answer you properly, we do play with width. The two wing backs are always near the touchline. Persisting with Lati against teams that set up defensively irks me though. Full backs must be happy when they see his name on the sheet.
Obafemi is rendered fairly useless against teams that defend so deeply. He’s great against a high line or a team who is chasing a goal. Shooting from distance now and then is reasonable enough. Ntcham has a couple from a decent range and as you say, it often unsights the keeper or causes a scramble which can be hard to defend.
I can’t see what he’s trying to do personally. Martinball v1 was ineffective. Martinball v2 worked for a while, but has now been sussed by teams happy with a point. He needs to find a way around that and at the moment, doesn’t look to have the answer. |
Static width and dynamic width are very different things though. It’s all well and good putting someone out wide, but if they don’t have the ability or pace to beat a man then nobody will get pulled very far out of position.
The beauty of genuine wing backs and/or wingers is when they beat a man, someone has to come across to cover, so there will be a spare attacker in space. Just pushing laborious players out wide isn’t really fulfilling the brief.
People used to come and defend all the time when we went up. Scott Sinclair regularly used his pace to create space for others and we used to rip teams apart. Norwich I seem to remember came down to play for a draw and we destroyed them 3-0 with quick movement, fast and direct passing and we carved open their rigid and deep lying defence time after time.
Martinball v2 hasn’t been sussed out, I don’t even remember it failing this season apart from Burnley. But they are just better than us. Our success rate with sensible ball is astounding, 2 points per game plus.
We have just ditched it again like I said he would. We haven’t won since (Cardiff apart with 10 men for 90 mins).
I can go through the data with you if you like. [Post edited 13 Nov 2022 15:34]
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| Be honest on 15:35 - Nov 13 with 432 views | onehunglow |
| Be honest on 15:31 - Nov 13 by Boundy |
Like I posted a decent question to ask , I'm just surprised at how some responses have been presented |
Cat
Right now,fans are concerned or simply worried.
It’s all about how it is articulated | |
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| Be honest on 15:38 - Nov 13 with 425 views | KeithHaynes |
| Be honest on 15:35 - Nov 13 by onehunglow |
Cat
Right now,fans are concerned or simply worried.
It’s all about how it is articulated |
Worried about being eighth or equal on GD for sixth ? | |
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| Be honest on 15:49 - Nov 13 with 417 views | jack247 |
| Be honest on 15:31 - Nov 13 by mart66 |
Static width and dynamic width are very different things though. It’s all well and good putting someone out wide, but if they don’t have the ability or pace to beat a man then nobody will get pulled very far out of position.
The beauty of genuine wing backs and/or wingers is when they beat a man, someone has to come across to cover, so there will be a spare attacker in space. Just pushing laborious players out wide isn’t really fulfilling the brief.
People used to come and defend all the time when we went up. Scott Sinclair regularly used his pace to create space for others and we used to rip teams apart. Norwich I seem to remember came down to play for a draw and we destroyed them 3-0 with quick movement, fast and direct passing and we carved open their rigid and deep lying defence time after time.
Martinball v2 hasn’t been sussed out, I don’t even remember it failing this season apart from Burnley. But they are just better than us. Our success rate with sensible ball is astounding, 2 points per game plus.
We have just ditched it again like I said he would. We haven’t won since (Cardiff apart with 10 men for 90 mins).
I can go through the data with you if you like. [Post edited 13 Nov 2022 15:34]
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There’s no need to. If we had reverted to old ways, we’d have Fisher in goal (by far the better with his feet, which was crucial to that style), just worse at everything else. We’d also have Naughton in the centre of defence and would be losing regularly.
We’re trying to get it through midfield quickly and even played a few (pointless) long balls to Obafemi. Great when he’s got space to run into, useless when he has to take them like a targetman.
We’re always going to have more possession and higher pass completion when opponents sit back and let us have the ball. It will happen again and again this season if he can’t find a way to overcome it.
I’m not for a second suggesting it’s an unbeatable tactic. Yes, let’s of teams tried it against that Rodgers side. Just stating Martin hasn’t been able to the last few games. | | | |
| Be honest on 16:02 - Nov 13 with 405 views | mart66 |
| Be honest on 15:49 - Nov 13 by jack247 |
There’s no need to. If we had reverted to old ways, we’d have Fisher in goal (by far the better with his feet, which was crucial to that style), just worse at everything else. We’d also have Naughton in the centre of defence and would be losing regularly.
We’re trying to get it through midfield quickly and even played a few (pointless) long balls to Obafemi. Great when he’s got space to run into, useless when he has to take them like a targetman.
We’re always going to have more possession and higher pass completion when opponents sit back and let us have the ball. It will happen again and again this season if he can’t find a way to overcome it.
I’m not for a second suggesting it’s an unbeatable tactic. Yes, let’s of teams tried it against that Rodgers side. Just stating Martin hasn’t been able to the last few games. |
Martinball doesn’t begin and end with Fisher.
Fisher wasn’t here when Martin first started it. He brought him in as he thought it would help implement it, but it’s clear that experiment failed.
Martinball is a an abnormally high possession, slow attack, high pass count and extreme short ball focus approach. Many clubs go to other places looking for a point and it doesn’t mean that they have 75% possession and 800 passes with very few attacks. It’s not something which automatically happens just because a team goes defensive.
We stopped playing Sensibleball against Reading. We reverted to it second half out of desperation then ditched it as he usually does. It’s not been seen since, although did miss the Birmingham game.
Was the same last season, when we ditched it we were on play off form. All of a sudden there would be an unmistakable change in philosophy and style and we would be relegation fodder.
If I went through every single game this season and listed possession, pass count and long ball % you wouldn’t find it’s intermittent and scattered, they would be all grouped together because it’s not random. It’s by instruction usually coinciding with how much pressure he’s feeling.
When we are down the bottom he will go 50% possession, 450 passes and 15% long…. As soon as we are out of danger he will revert to 75% possession, 700 passes and 4% long all time in blocks of games, not interchangeable variance. | |
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| Be honest on 16:07 - Nov 13 with 404 views | builthjack |
| Be honest on 15:00 - Nov 13 by onehunglow |
It’s called being obsequious,cywtching up to a moderator ,saying the “ right” things.
Martin and the team are criticised by most of us YET some posters first thought is to insult those they ve held a grudge against for years .
Obvious innit.
Be honest indeed . |
We should have scored two, could have scored 4 yeasterday. That’s down to the players. | |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Be honest on 16:14 - Nov 13 with 390 views | jack247 |
| Be honest on 16:02 - Nov 13 by mart66 |
Martinball doesn’t begin and end with Fisher.
Fisher wasn’t here when Martin first started it. He brought him in as he thought it would help implement it, but it’s clear that experiment failed.
Martinball is a an abnormally high possession, slow attack, high pass count and extreme short ball focus approach. Many clubs go to other places looking for a point and it doesn’t mean that they have 75% possession and 800 passes with very few attacks. It’s not something which automatically happens just because a team goes defensive.
We stopped playing Sensibleball against Reading. We reverted to it second half out of desperation then ditched it as he usually does. It’s not been seen since, although did miss the Birmingham game.
Was the same last season, when we ditched it we were on play off form. All of a sudden there would be an unmistakable change in philosophy and style and we would be relegation fodder.
If I went through every single game this season and listed possession, pass count and long ball % you wouldn’t find it’s intermittent and scattered, they would be all grouped together because it’s not random. It’s by instruction usually coinciding with how much pressure he’s feeling.
When we are down the bottom he will go 50% possession, 450 passes and 15% long…. As soon as we are out of danger he will revert to 75% possession, 700 passes and 4% long all time in blocks of games, not interchangeable variance. |
Next four games are Norwich, Coventry, Reading and Watford. Two promotion favourites at home and two mid table sides away.
I expect to see less possession, lower pass completion, less passes and more long balls than against the likes of Huddersfield and Wigan.
It will be back for Rotherham and Huddersfield at home. | | | |
| Be honest on 16:14 - Nov 13 with 390 views | KeithHaynes |
| Be honest on 16:07 - Nov 13 by builthjack |
We should have scored two, could have scored 4 yeasterday. That’s down to the players. |
The manager set them up to win, exactly. | |
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| Be honest on 16:16 - Nov 13 with 385 views | mart66 |
| Be honest on 16:07 - Nov 13 by builthjack |
We should have scored two, could have scored 4 yeasterday. That’s down to the players. |
But you have to do that analysis for both sides, otherwise every team’s manager can claim to be the best in the world and it’s just down to the players.
In terms of “should” have scored, it would be 1-1 with their chance being far better than ours. The only chance we had where you would probably expect the player to score is Obafemi’s shot but it wasn’t easy by any means.
They had their chance that I have no idea still how they didn’t score. A save and a goal line clearance in quick succession.
It’s unrealistic to expect us to take every chance and the opposition don’t get the same luxury. If every club did that then they would all say they should be top. | |
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