| Recent controversies and the tension between equality and equity 08:31 - Jun 4 with 1087 views | AnotherJohn |
It is gradually dawning on people that the controversial police chiefs’ guidance affecting the Nowak case is actually very much in line with guidance introduced in a wide range of public bodies, including the Welsh Government. The problem of police guidance is not so much an isolated case of 'clumsy wording’, which is what a couple of ministers have claimed, but just another example of the outcome of DEI policies introduced over many years right across the public sector.
A Times article today looks at a number of examples from the NHS to Homes England, the government’s housing and regeneration agency. Here are extracts from behind the paywall:
"Public bodies from a wide spectrum of society operate guidelines advising staff to treat people from certain backgrounds differently, The Times can reveal, amid a growing row about differential treatment following the murder of Henry Nowak.
The revelations have led to fresh questions about the role of equality and diversity strategies on public policy after police chiefs said they would review controversial guidance advising officers to treat ethnic minorities differently. (…)
NHS England published “equalities and digital inclusion” guidelines last year that stated: “Equitable treatment does not necessarily mean always treating everyone the same.”
The DBS, which screens people working with children and vulnerable people, states on its equality and diversity page: “When we talk about Equality, we recognise that true fairness often means equity — ensuring that everyone has the support they need and opportunities to succeed, rather than simply treating everyone the same.”
Homes England, the government’s housing and regeneration agency responsible for the provision of affordable and quality homes, stated in a 2024 report on its equality, diversity and inclusion strategy: “Equality is not about treating everyone the same.”
Companies House, the government agency that oversees the public register of limited companies, said in its equality, diversity and inclusion strategy in 2022: “Equality — not about treating everyone the same.”’
There is a legal basis for this in the Public Sector Equality Duty brought in by section 149 of the Equality Act, 2010. One element of the PSED is a duty to advance equality of opportunity, which involves inter alia removing or minimising disadvantages and meeting different needs. This means that groups suffering disadvantage can be treated differently from others.
Wales has gone further than England with regulations (The Equality Act 2010 (Statutory Duties) (Wales) Regulations 2011) that impose additional duties on public bodies to operationalise equity. These duties include carrying out equality impact assessments for all major policies, assessing effects on groups with protected characteristics, and making Strategic Equality Plans (SEPs) to address problems every 4 years.. The Welsh Government encourages targeted interventions (positive action) in such areas as targeted recruitment initiatives, "culturally competent service design" and additional support for groups with lower participation.
To summarise, the Welsh government takes equality to mean treating people fairly and without discrimination, and equity to mean removing barriers so that different groups can achieve fair outcomes.
So we have got to a place where some groups are routinely treated differently from others and the question arises of whether this is compatible with the principle of equality before the law that many suppose to be a foundational principle of the UK legal system.
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| Recent controversies and the tension between equality and equity on 08:53 - Jun 4 with 1041 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
I heard an interesting interview with a representative of the police chiefs association. She said that guidance was about equity not equality and that those two things are distinct. Equity she explained was about being sensitive to people's backgrounds and experiences, how you know what these are when you turn up at an incident god only knows. She then used equality and derivatives of equality all through the interview and did not use the word equity again.
I concluded that the guidance was actually about equality because that's what she talked about for about 10 minutes, otherwise she would have talked about equity. [Post edited 4 Jun 8:58]
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| Recent controversies and the tension between equality and equity on 09:59 - Jun 4 with 977 views | Scotia |
I don't think there is much tension if the differnce is properly understood. There is no need to read too much in to it.
Equality is treating everyone the same, which is great but some people have different needs and that's equity. It would seem fair to me to refer to them both as equality because that is the end result of equitable treatment.
For example, if three people need to read a document one is fully able bodied, one blind and one dyslexic you wouldn't just give them all a piece of paper with words written on it. You'd treat them equitably to ensure equality. | | | |
| Recent controversies and the tension between equality and equity on 10:21 - Jun 4 with 968 views | KeithHaynes |
| Recent controversies and the tension between equality and equity on 09:59 - Jun 4 by Scotia |
I don't think there is much tension if the differnce is properly understood. There is no need to read too much in to it.
Equality is treating everyone the same, which is great but some people have different needs and that's equity. It would seem fair to me to refer to them both as equality because that is the end result of equitable treatment.
For example, if three people need to read a document one is fully able bodied, one blind and one dyslexic you wouldn't just give them all a piece of paper with words written on it. You'd treat them equitably to ensure equality. |
It’s a wonderful utopia Scotia and I agree with much of what you say. However, there’s are too many chiefs and bosses focussed on what they can have to suit their agenda to be bothered about the wider impact. And it’s no good for say a protestor in Southampton shouting at a copper there because of the tragic circumstances regards Henry as they were not the people present when this young lad died. Racism and tick box training is the scourge of everyday life these days no matter who you are.
The educational background of public life is a bit like asking a person with an IQ of 90 to understand and comprehend someone with one of 115 plus. They won’t get it. What they will get is their understanding of what they think is being asked of them. And therein lies the problem. The security industry is a good example, gate tenders and those employed to control and entry people into businesses in some cases know so little despite training they just make it up.
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| Recent controversies and the tension between equality and equity on 12:14 - Jun 4 with 894 views | onehunglow |
| Recent controversies and the tension between equality and equity on 10:21 - Jun 4 by KeithHaynes |
It’s a wonderful utopia Scotia and I agree with much of what you say. However, there’s are too many chiefs and bosses focussed on what they can have to suit their agenda to be bothered about the wider impact. And it’s no good for say a protestor in Southampton shouting at a copper there because of the tragic circumstances regards Henry as they were not the people present when this young lad died. Racism and tick box training is the scourge of everyday life these days no matter who you are.
The educational background of public life is a bit like asking a person with an IQ of 90 to understand and comprehend someone with one of 115 plus. They won’t get it. What they will get is their understanding of what they think is being asked of them. And therein lies the problem. The security industry is a good example, gate tenders and those employed to control and entry people into businesses in some cases know so little despite training they just make it up.
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I don’t believe in treating all the same
Criminal scum who ruin lives should never be treated equally
We have utterly lost the plot
It’s us or them
Should be easy choice
We are not all born equal either
It’s not a fair world and never will be | |
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| Recent controversies and the tension between equality and equity on 12:45 - Jun 4 with 886 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Recent controversies and the tension between equality and equity on 09:59 - Jun 4 by Scotia |
I don't think there is much tension if the differnce is properly understood. There is no need to read too much in to it.
Equality is treating everyone the same, which is great but some people have different needs and that's equity. It would seem fair to me to refer to them both as equality because that is the end result of equitable treatment.
For example, if three people need to read a document one is fully able bodied, one blind and one dyslexic you wouldn't just give them all a piece of paper with words written on it. You'd treat them equitably to ensure equality. |
My point is that you said more about the relationship between equity and equality in a short post than she managed in her whole interview! | |
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| Recent controversies and the tension between equality and equity on 15:02 - Jun 4 with 834 views | KeithHaynes |
| Recent controversies and the tension between equality and equity on 12:14 - Jun 4 by onehunglow |
I don’t believe in treating all the same
Criminal scum who ruin lives should never be treated equally
We have utterly lost the plot
It’s us or them
Should be easy choice
We are not all born equal either
It’s not a fair world and never will be |
You’ve destroyed my illusion of the world 😉👍 | |
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| Recent controversies and the tension between equality and equity on 18:04 - Jun 4 with 756 views | onehunglow |
| Recent controversies and the tension between equality and equity on 15:02 - Jun 4 by KeithHaynes |
You’ve destroyed my illusion of the world 😉👍 |
Found out very early in life Keith
We strive for equality but it’s ( arguably) unattainable
We have to accept that | |
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| Recent controversies and the tension between equality and equity on 09:58 - Jun 7 with 585 views | controversial_jack |
| Recent controversies and the tension between equality and equity on 12:14 - Jun 4 by onehunglow |
I don’t believe in treating all the same
Criminal scum who ruin lives should never be treated equally
We have utterly lost the plot
It’s us or them
Should be easy choice
We are not all born equal either
It’s not a fair world and never will be |
Should that extend to education for example. School uniform wearing, where all kids dress the same to give them the illusion that they are all equal and that's how life is. Some parents have the means to buy expensive trainers and some don't, and that's how it will remain for most but that's life | | | |
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