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SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 11:31 - Jun 12 by daveB
I never said he was over rated just that was one my memory of him.Lots of promise but never really delivered much. Those goals he scored were great and all done whilst playing on the wing as well.
We didn't play a style that would have seen him flourish in the middle, we were direct playing off a target man with Austin feeling off the scraps. That style never suited him and was never going to get the best out of him which made signing him in the first place a bit daft but as we had him the only place in the team where he could find space was out wide.
Basically this and Dave's other post. When you're playing Barton and Henry in midfield you're not going to be getting reverse through balls matching your runs through the middle. The only person really capable of that in last season's squad was Taraabt and I really don't want to open that can of worms again!
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SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 11:54 - Jun 12 with 4405 views
SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 11:32 - Jun 12 by Antti_Heinola
Dave Mc did a piece about it that is less barbed than Jamie's view. Simply, a lot of players, especially from overseas, don't put their all into training because they believe they need to save energy for games. Doesn't mean they don't care, doesn't mean they're bad trainers. They're just different. Not all players are the same. As you say, in matches, there's absolutely no doubting his commitment.
An interesting point. Verheijen says that a lot of training done in Britain is the wrong type of training (general fitness training not specifically tailored to football).
Air hostess clique
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SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 12:22 - Jun 12 with 4356 views
SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 11:32 - Jun 12 by Antti_Heinola
Dave Mc did a piece about it that is less barbed than Jamie's view. Simply, a lot of players, especially from overseas, don't put their all into training because they believe they need to save energy for games. Doesn't mean they don't care, doesn't mean they're bad trainers. They're just different. Not all players are the same. As you say, in matches, there's absolutely no doubting his commitment.
Training has become a means to an end these days as if you get awarded points for players being well behaved off the pitch. Not only with managers but with dopey supporters as well writing off good players who play well but train "badly".
Hardly surprisingly after being forced to train as hard as he plays Vargas started picking up injuries. At least he did what he was told which is the main thing apparently.
I'm wondering if Ramsey is applying his logic with the youth team where more training is always better to full internationals who actually know better how to manage their own bodies for matchdays rather than running them into the ground.
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SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 12:31 - Jun 12 with 4348 views
I missed this at the time, but a month ago in the wake of the bad egg comments, The Secret Footballer claimed he had heard on the grapevine that Vargas tried to end his loan deal in January and when it failed semi-downed tools in training to maintain fitness:
SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 11:31 - Jun 12 by daveB
I never said he was over rated just that was one my memory of him.Lots of promise but never really delivered much. Those goals he scored were great and all done whilst playing on the wing as well.
We didn't play a style that would have seen him flourish in the middle, we were direct playing off a target man with Austin feeling off the scraps. That style never suited him and was never going to get the best out of him which made signing him in the first place a bit daft but as we had him the only place in the team where he could find space was out wide.
That’s implying we could only play the Zamora way. A way that was clearly not yielding enough points. A change in approach, especially against the likes of Palaces and Everton would have been worth trying in my opinion.
Clearly, you wouldn’t bring Vargas into the side as a striker and tell him to impersonate Zamora. You’d ask the team to adjust accordingly, possibly move Fer inside, consider 3 at the back, encourage the team to play the ball on the deck etc. But let’s stick to the view that it made no sense to play Vargas because we played long balls to Zamora — a tactic that worked so well didn’t it? The truth is had we tried somethign different involving Vargas more, we couldn't have done any worse.
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SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 16:17 - Jun 12 with 4213 views
SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 12:42 - Jun 12 by PhilmyRs
That’s implying we could only play the Zamora way. A way that was clearly not yielding enough points. A change in approach, especially against the likes of Palaces and Everton would have been worth trying in my opinion.
Clearly, you wouldn’t bring Vargas into the side as a striker and tell him to impersonate Zamora. You’d ask the team to adjust accordingly, possibly move Fer inside, consider 3 at the back, encourage the team to play the ball on the deck etc. But let’s stick to the view that it made no sense to play Vargas because we played long balls to Zamora — a tactic that worked so well didn’t it? The truth is had we tried somethign different involving Vargas more, we couldn't have done any worse.
Exactly what I was thinking.
To say: "We had to play him on the right because our system was different" is a bit like saying: "We can't go about exercising and eating healthy because we are doing crack".
Loaning a player to play him out of position is a decision even Pete Doherty would be ashamed of.
Loaning another player to try and return him and never play him (allow me to doubt the many invisible injuries all our talented players from overseas have sustained throughout the season).
But it's not the club's fault (or the senior employees'), it's these guys' fault for not training properly?
Redknapp would have suffered the most heavy punishments if they were given for not trying hard enough.
We needed to play our most talented players. We didn't. We got relegated. Our most talented players will play at higher levels than ours.
And that's FULLY deserved for a club which did EVERYTHING wrong and only backed the wrong characters.
Right sort? Right sort? We were doomed by backing the WORST sort of manager. But he found fertile ground with the board and so many fans who were happy to side with him rather than realising the horrible disaster he was doing.
Now you'll hear the same fans say it's better for QPR as a club to be in the Championship. Please!
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SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 16:27 - Jun 12 with 4196 views
@QPR_ARG: To say: "We had to play him on the right because our system was different" is a bit like saying: "We can't go about exercising and eating healthy because we are doing crack".
I am going to go about saying that from now on.
Air hostess clique
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SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 16:28 - Jun 12 with 4190 views
I watched the full 90 mins last night of the Chile game, and it was sickening almost to watch. Isla was excellent I thought, and has one hell of an engine, constantly getting into the box..up and down non stop for 90 minutes, and Vargas was full of running.. It was really hard to look at them and think they are the sort to be 'bad eggs' or that Isla's fittness levels were of someone who wasn't training properly..
and then I see today that the Adel being released for nothing and immediately signs a contract with a big name side added further to the misery of how we have really missused our resources. It can't be very common that a lower tier team decide to mutually end a contract a year early so the player can move to a team in the Champions league for free
SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 12:22 - Jun 12 by Clive_Anderson
Training has become a means to an end these days as if you get awarded points for players being well behaved off the pitch. Not only with managers but with dopey supporters as well writing off good players who play well but train "badly".
Hardly surprisingly after being forced to train as hard as he plays Vargas started picking up injuries. At least he did what he was told which is the main thing apparently.
I'm wondering if Ramsey is applying his logic with the youth team where more training is always better to full internationals who actually know better how to manage their own bodies for matchdays rather than running them into the ground.
Yes, I'm sure that training hard caused him to fall awkwardly and damage his ankle ligaments.
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SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 16:52 - Jun 12 with 4159 views
SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 16:28 - Jun 12 by BrazilNutR
I watched the full 90 mins last night of the Chile game, and it was sickening almost to watch. Isla was excellent I thought, and has one hell of an engine, constantly getting into the box..up and down non stop for 90 minutes, and Vargas was full of running.. It was really hard to look at them and think they are the sort to be 'bad eggs' or that Isla's fittness levels were of someone who wasn't training properly..
and then I see today that the Adel being released for nothing and immediately signs a contract with a big name side added further to the misery of how we have really missused our resources. It can't be very common that a lower tier team decide to mutually end a contract a year early so the player can move to a team in the Champions league for free
I feel the same way. No matter how many stories we hear about Adel, on the pitch, he was always either very good or sublime. And the tantrums where more exceptions rather than rules. Whoever says the opposite, can talk to themselves as I'll have no time to discuss with them.
I think it's a really sad day for QPR, but on the other hand, to see Isla and Vargas doing well and to see Adel joining a Champions League side who are massively supported in his native Africa are a bit vindicating and make Redknapp look even worse than he had looked in recent times.
This thing about terminating a deal by mutual consent is nothing but a continuity of how badly we have managed/taken care of/utilise a resource as valuable as Adel. While we were getting worse and worse on the playing field, off the pitch, in the media and in every single aspect a club's image can be affected in.
Lessons learned!
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SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 20:14 - Jun 12 with 4077 views
SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 16:52 - Jun 12 by QPR_ARG
I feel the same way. No matter how many stories we hear about Adel, on the pitch, he was always either very good or sublime. And the tantrums where more exceptions rather than rules. Whoever says the opposite, can talk to themselves as I'll have no time to discuss with them.
I think it's a really sad day for QPR, but on the other hand, to see Isla and Vargas doing well and to see Adel joining a Champions League side who are massively supported in his native Africa are a bit vindicating and make Redknapp look even worse than he had looked in recent times.
This thing about terminating a deal by mutual consent is nothing but a continuity of how badly we have managed/taken care of/utilise a resource as valuable as Adel. While we were getting worse and worse on the playing field, off the pitch, in the media and in every single aspect a club's image can be affected in.
Lessons learned!
Yet again you're ignoring the fact that 5 PL managers couldn't get the best out of him. Even you've got to admit at some point that Adel should take some responsibility for that? Or are you seriously suggesting none of it was his fault?
The Africa comment is very ironic considering he threw a strop because he was on the bench and said he wouldn't play international football again. That's real dedication to your country.
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SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 21:42 - Jun 12 with 4045 views
I do not think he was abad egg - I think he got pi**ed off not being played in his correct position or not being played at all. It was clear that he was better than others who were playing regularly and quite frankly I do not blame him. He should have started in most games and he got frustrated.
I'm 75% in agreement with that and 25% "Shut up Vargas you whingeing turd it's not like you're being tortured on a daily basis". Tricky one. I do also wonder if there were cultural differences between him and Isla and Ramsey over training style and intensity.
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SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 23:12 - Jun 12 with 3995 views
SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 12:31 - Jun 12 by ActonOccident
I missed this at the time, but a month ago in the wake of the bad egg comments, The Secret Footballer claimed he had heard on the grapevine that Vargas tried to end his loan deal in January and when it failed semi-downed tools in training to maintain fitness:
I think he's an excellent player and I simply don't understand why he was not used in his correct position. I can understand and sympathise if he wanted to end his loan because of that.
But if the article is right - a big if, mind - that he refused to come on as sub when Ramsey wanted to send him on vs Palace then he's simply a thief of his wages. Cultural differences don't come into it, it is stealing from the club and the fans who buy tickets. The idea that a manager "requests" a player to go on is ridiculous.
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SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 23:58 - Jun 12 with 3956 views
The only thing I don't quite get is Vargas refused to go on as a sub against Palace but made the bench the following game (Everton) and even came on. The game after that (west brom) he started.
That Palace thing is more than likely b@llocks or Ramsey went soft and Vargas must of seriously worked his nuts off for Ramsey to even consider him and then ask him again if he fancied going on in the very next game. Also it was a two week break between Palace and Everton, I'm assuming it was an international break which means he was probably less likely to be around the training ground as most of the other players.
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SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 07:54 - Jun 13 with 3891 views
SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 12:42 - Jun 12 by PhilmyRs
That’s implying we could only play the Zamora way. A way that was clearly not yielding enough points. A change in approach, especially against the likes of Palaces and Everton would have been worth trying in my opinion.
Clearly, you wouldn’t bring Vargas into the side as a striker and tell him to impersonate Zamora. You’d ask the team to adjust accordingly, possibly move Fer inside, consider 3 at the back, encourage the team to play the ball on the deck etc. But let’s stick to the view that it made no sense to play Vargas because we played long balls to Zamora — a tactic that worked so well didn’t it? The truth is had we tried somethign different involving Vargas more, we couldn't have done any worse.
wasn't just about Zamora I don't think we had enough energy in midfield to play the style Chilie do which gets the best out of Vargas and isla. The midfield players were all hard working win the ball back types rather than box to box players with a bit of flair. It's nothing against Vargas he's clearly a decent player but we didn't have the players around him to get the best out of him. When you went through our squad last season the only way we could really play and get results was direct and that suited a lot of our players but not all of them.
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SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 08:12 - Jun 13 with 3483 views
SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 23:58 - Jun 12 by MrNITK
The only thing I don't quite get is Vargas refused to go on as a sub against Palace but made the bench the following game (Everton) and even came on. The game after that (west brom) he started.
That Palace thing is more than likely b@llocks or Ramsey went soft and Vargas must of seriously worked his nuts off for Ramsey to even consider him and then ask him again if he fancied going on in the very next game. Also it was a two week break between Palace and Everton, I'm assuming it was an international break which means he was probably less likely to be around the training ground as most of the other players.
Good points. The article is based on hearsay.
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SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 08:50 - Jun 13 with 3468 views
SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 11:33 - Jun 12 by Mvpeter
I think you need to look up the word fact. It doesn't mean claim despite evidence.
The Agenda is clear for all to see. Especially if you see what's happening down at the training ground.
You watch them train day in day out do u ????Why support QPR if all u do is slate them for EVERYTHING they do your either on here as a wum or a sad c@nt !!!!!!
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SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 16:28 - Jun 13 with 3381 views
SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 11:20 - Jun 12 by whittocksRs
The weird thing about Vargas supposedly not training hard is he always looked like he was trying harder than everyone else when on the pitch, even shunted out on the right in an unnatural position. He and Austin up front together probably would have kept us up, in all truth. Another Redknapp masterstroke.
Yep and a master stroke continued by Rambo for half the season more.
Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR.
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SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 04:59 - Jun 14 with 3302 views
SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 10:35 - Jun 14 by TacticalR
Yes, there has been a touch of unreality about some of the discussion about Vargas (and other players).
But that's not really the point. Vargas was used as a scapegoat by Ramsey and Ferdinand for why we failed to stay up. But in reality it exposed both tactical and man-management shortcomings
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SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 11:53 - Jun 14 with 3182 views
Vargas has a tattoo on his neck and I have noticed that the vast majority of people with tats on their neck are not blessed in the brain dept and poor decision makers!! Eg - Cisse, Fitz Hall, Vargas. Each one would have brain fade or make silly decisions on the pitch from time to time - the same applies to that evening in the tattoo parlour!!
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SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 13:15 - Jun 14 with 3147 views
SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 16:17 - Jun 12 by QPR_ARG
Exactly what I was thinking.
To say: "We had to play him on the right because our system was different" is a bit like saying: "We can't go about exercising and eating healthy because we are doing crack".
Loaning a player to play him out of position is a decision even Pete Doherty would be ashamed of.
Loaning another player to try and return him and never play him (allow me to doubt the many invisible injuries all our talented players from overseas have sustained throughout the season).
But it's not the club's fault (or the senior employees'), it's these guys' fault for not training properly?
Redknapp would have suffered the most heavy punishments if they were given for not trying hard enough.
We needed to play our most talented players. We didn't. We got relegated. Our most talented players will play at higher levels than ours.
And that's FULLY deserved for a club which did EVERYTHING wrong and only backed the wrong characters.
Right sort? Right sort? We were doomed by backing the WORST sort of manager. But he found fertile ground with the board and so many fans who were happy to side with him rather than realising the horrible disaster he was doing.
Now you'll hear the same fans say it's better for QPR as a club to be in the Championship. Please!
Exactly!
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SHOCKING: Eduardo Vargas on 14:14 - Jun 14 with 3113 views
On the subject of training, one of my all-time favourite football quotes was from Pep Guardiola a few years ago when he was in charge of Barca at their peak. They'd just dished out another cricket score to someone and when asked about their form at the post match interview he smiled and said "They work so hard in the week, they're allowed to have a little fun on the weekends..."
Of course that all rather depends on what sort of training it is a team does. Are they collectively strategizing, honing, preparing for the next opponent or are they just huffing and puffing up and down a pitch, practicing headers and volleys, and bantering? If we knew that then we'd know what "training well" at QPR really meant and to what extent Vargas actually was a pr1ck for giving it a swerve.
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