| Migrant/Refugee crisis 11:04 - Sep 4 with 56305 views | Deano19766 |
Just a thought on this subject which is all over the news saying we are a disgrace and should do more to help -
Oxford English Dictionary definition of Refugee - "A person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster". So when a person flees their country for those reasons they are a refugee (and that is of course a terrible thing to happen to anyone and is yet another sad fact about humanity as a species). However, it could (and should) then be implied that once a 'refugee' passes through a 'safe' country then (s)he is no longer a refugee but a migrant, and most likely a migrant for economic reasons. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but all this rhetoric about taking in 'refugees' is completely misguided or a (deliberate?) misinterpretation of the facts IMO. If people wish to show their support for accommodating these people then that is of course their prerogative, but they should at least be clear that that they support accommodating 'economic migrants' as opposed to 'refugees' (although that would be far less sensationalist and may not suit their agenda). |  | | |  |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 15:48 - Sep 6 with 2807 views | izlingtonhoop |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 00:57 - Sep 6 by Hadders |
Sometimes being a bleeding heart Guardian-reading QPR fan ain`t easy. At the last count there was me, Robert Elms and about two of you, like Cider with Rosie. Oh, and the chap who does that wonderful This is My England site. Anyone else out there? We`re clearly outnumbered even here - never mind on the We Are the BNP Boys site. [Post edited 6 Sep 2015 1:11]
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Me.
Edit. And I notice you've put me back to zero for saying Holloway talks rubbish. Thankyou.
How anyone can disagree that stating 2.7million people is going to become a majority in this country, over those of us with a christian tradition (personally I'm a rabid atheist, but that's how I would describe my 'tradition') - what's that? 50+ million? - in 85 years time is utter rubbish is beyond me, but Japranger didn't like me saying it, for one reason or another... [Post edited 6 Sep 2015 15:57]
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 15:55 - Sep 6 with 2789 views | stowmarketrange |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 15:48 - Sep 6 by izlingtonhoop |
Me.
Edit. And I notice you've put me back to zero for saying Holloway talks rubbish. Thankyou.
How anyone can disagree that stating 2.7million people is going to become a majority in this country, over those of us with a christian tradition (personally I'm a rabid atheist, but that's how I would describe my 'tradition') - what's that? 50+ million? - in 85 years time is utter rubbish is beyond me, but Japranger didn't like me saying it, for one reason or another... [Post edited 6 Sep 2015 15:57]
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Me too,although I never buy newspapers now. |  | | |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 15:57 - Sep 6 with 2786 views | izlingtonhoop |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 15:55 - Sep 6 by stowmarketrange |
Me too,although I never buy newspapers now. |
Why would anyone? They're free on the internet. [Post edited 6 Sep 2015 15:58]
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 16:01 - Sep 6 with 2772 views | kensalriser |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 15:48 - Sep 6 by izlingtonhoop |
Me.
Edit. And I notice you've put me back to zero for saying Holloway talks rubbish. Thankyou.
How anyone can disagree that stating 2.7million people is going to become a majority in this country, over those of us with a christian tradition (personally I'm a rabid atheist, but that's how I would describe my 'tradition') - what's that? 50+ million? - in 85 years time is utter rubbish is beyond me, but Japranger didn't like me saying it, for one reason or another... [Post edited 6 Sep 2015 15:57]
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You mean Japranger...who presumably is an immigrant where he lives? |  |
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 16:08 - Sep 6 with 2746 views | izlingtonhoop |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 16:01 - Sep 6 by kensalriser |
You mean Japranger...who presumably is an immigrant where he lives? |
Aye, that'd be the one.
I had that thought | | | |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 16:41 - Sep 6 with 2694 views | Hadders |
Reading though this fascinating and at times very well informed thread again with more objective eyes, it appears there are a few of us liberal/leftish types who for some reason also like football and the Rs - enough to make a first 11 with a couple of subs, at least. Oh, and of course Alan Johnson is a longstanding fan too - we won`t mention Michael Gove! Sadly, my guess is that you wouldn`t get much joy shaking a bucket for refugees on matchday though.
This is a highly complex mess without simple solutions and I understand the pressures in this country, but I start from a fundamental commitment to fellow humans in extreme need, whatever their nationality. | | | |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 16:55 - Sep 6 with 2651 views | derbyhoop |
It seems to me hat the vast majority of those who have been caught up in the crisis in Hungary are genuine Syrian refugees. In Syria they are trapped between their own government attacks and the brutality of ISIS. When you see the squalor of those in Budapest station and the bodies washed up on a Turkish beach, it is no longer a Migrant or Refugee crisis but a HUMANITARIAN one.
We do have problems with the infrastructure in the UK in coping with the vast number of new arrivals but, if we want to call ourselves a Christian country (copyright Holloway) then that means offering sanctuary to those in far greater need. And in far greater numbers than we have done to date.
If that marks me out as a liberal leftie, then it's a label I'll happily wear. It's a far more comfortable one than most of the Syrians have to put up with. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 17:32 - Sep 6 with 2602 views | qprphil |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 13:08 - Sep 4 by Deano19766 |
The problem with those countries is/was you give the people food and money so they survive, then they all have about 5 kids, the population continues to go through the roof, and the same problem continues. You can't help people if they refuse to help themselves. I'm sure all this is the start of humanity heading to extinction soon. If only it would admit the problem and police its numbers everyone could be fine. Won't be pleasant for your grandchildren (not you personally, but generally) when it all comes to an end.
With regards Ex's post, what nonsense that not everyone should work and those of us that do work should pay for the upkeep of others. Why should the 'workers' support people who choose to add to the chaos by having so many children and cannot support them? (7 children. Jesus wept. Just plain wrong IMO).
We live in very dangerous times [Post edited 4 Sep 2015 13:15]
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This is so very true. Also, isis said they would flood Europe with Muslims, to create a Muslim society in 100 years or so. The way things are going, this WILL HAPPEN. Different religions CANT live together, with different beliefs. Some can, but most CANT. I fear for my grandchildren, and there offspring. My father was a Lancaster bomber pilot during the war, he risked his life for this country and my future. People who come here should respect our way of life, and embrace it. If they cant, then don't come. If you want our hospitality, which you do, you like our way of life, which you do, then live like us. You cant tell me that once all these people get settled with there feet under the table they will continue to tow the line. They will have there 5-6 kids, then in a few generations time, we will have there problems in our country, and all the other countries that took them in also. We will go back to there way of life here, because they will be running the country.
It is just many of them way of life. | | | |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 17:35 - Sep 6 with 2589 views | Northernr |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 17:32 - Sep 6 by qprphil |
This is so very true. Also, isis said they would flood Europe with Muslims, to create a Muslim society in 100 years or so. The way things are going, this WILL HAPPEN. Different religions CANT live together, with different beliefs. Some can, but most CANT. I fear for my grandchildren, and there offspring. My father was a Lancaster bomber pilot during the war, he risked his life for this country and my future. People who come here should respect our way of life, and embrace it. If they cant, then don't come. If you want our hospitality, which you do, you like our way of life, which you do, then live like us. You cant tell me that once all these people get settled with there feet under the table they will continue to tow the line. They will have there 5-6 kids, then in a few generations time, we will have there problems in our country, and all the other countries that took them in also. We will go back to there way of life here, because they will be running the country.
It is just many of them way of life. |
#wayoflife |  | | |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 17:55 - Sep 6 with 2542 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 17:35 - Sep 6 by Northernr |
#wayoflife |
#MuslamicRayGuns |  | | |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 18:57 - Sep 6 with 2459 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 11:23 - Sep 6 by QPR_Jim |
Yeah you better get cracking.
I had a rebuttal of sorts but it's not worth flashing you mother in law over. |
I had a rebuttal of sorts but it's not worth flashing you mother in law over.
Possibly the most sensible thing said in a LFW political thread ever. | | | |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 18:58 - Sep 6 with 2464 views | 1BobbyHazell |
I would like to call out Holloway Ranger and Japimmigrantranger for down voting this post without actually commenting or debating it, and ask them their reasons why. If, as you pretend to claim Holloway, you care so much about our homeless why are you not supporting our using the resources of the super rich who have taken more wealth than they could ever possibly need to provide basic needs for homeless (a fair percentage of whom, as you rightly point out are ex service? If we don't have enough money to look after our own, there is only one place we are going to get it, those who currently have far too much of it. F****** obvious.
Japimmigrantranger, in a later post you talk about your fear for UK based family and friends because of riots. If you know your history, worldwide, you know that such riots generally only occur when the masses have been left too little by the elite having taken too much for themselves. So your comments would be appreciated on the down vote as well. |  | | |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 19:41 - Sep 6 with 2412 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 17:55 - Sep 6 by BazzaInTheLoft |
#MuslamicRayGuns |
Are people still laughing at that bloke for saying there were muslim rape gangs?
I would have thought subsequent news stories would have reduced the mirth somewhat, but obviously not. | | | |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 19:43 - Sep 6 with 2404 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 18:58 - Sep 6 by 1BobbyHazell |
I would like to call out Holloway Ranger and Japimmigrantranger for down voting this post without actually commenting or debating it, and ask them their reasons why. If, as you pretend to claim Holloway, you care so much about our homeless why are you not supporting our using the resources of the super rich who have taken more wealth than they could ever possibly need to provide basic needs for homeless (a fair percentage of whom, as you rightly point out are ex service? If we don't have enough money to look after our own, there is only one place we are going to get it, those who currently have far too much of it. F****** obvious.
Japimmigrantranger, in a later post you talk about your fear for UK based family and friends because of riots. If you know your history, worldwide, you know that such riots generally only occur when the masses have been left too little by the elite having taken too much for themselves. So your comments would be appreciated on the down vote as well. |
The thing is that if it's a straight choice between the rich having more than their fair share or the arrival of millions of uneducated young blokes from the third world then I'm afraid I'd have to plump for option 1. At least that is somewhat reversible.
I would have thought you would have preferred spending that money on the UK poor or the NHS or do they not matter anymore? | | | |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 19:50 - Sep 6 with 2384 views | kensalriser |
What makes you think they're all uneducated? A high proportion of the Syrian refugees are graduates according to one report I read. Whether true or not, I do believe that what we're seeing now is a mass exodus of the Syrian middle class - the people with education and money enough to be able to flee and have a chance of making a life somewhere else. | |
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 19:55 - Sep 6 with 2366 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 19:41 - Sep 6 by Clive_Anderson |
Are people still laughing at that bloke for saying there were muslim rape gangs?
I would have thought subsequent news stories would have reduced the mirth somewhat, but obviously not. |
No mate I'm late to the party. | | | |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 20:05 - Sep 6 with 2362 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 19:43 - Sep 6 by Clive_Anderson |
The thing is that if it's a straight choice between the rich having more than their fair share or the arrival of millions of uneducated young blokes from the third world then I'm afraid I'd have to plump for option 1. At least that is somewhat reversible.
I would have thought you would have preferred spending that money on the UK poor or the NHS or do they not matter anymore? |
What a stupid, attempted point scoring failure of a question to end with? Really pathetic. I would say you are better than that, if I thought it was true. Of course the money should be spent on a poor and the NHS, because in a world where the c*nts t weren't running things that's what money would be for, looking after a society.
I'm not remotely advocating the arrival of millions of uneuducated blokes. The fact that you present it as though it were only a choice of these two extremes is ludicrous. I am, however, advocating the spending of the world's resources on looking after each other rather than it being hoovered up by the few. I appreciate what a lunatic that makes me to some of the more wiser loving souls on here.
The main thrust of my point is - people are insisting that we don't have enough money ( and I mean for us before we even start on immigrants). Well, they may well be right, but we'll only know when we've taken it back from the people who have taken so much from us even in the last 10 years of so-called economic crisis (see the article in my original post).
We have become so governed by this idea we've been fed that there is not enough that it's reached the point where even decent human beings are looking at pictures of children dying on a beach and trying to find excuses for why it's ok or it's those peoples fault. This is not the natural state of affairs, let's get our money and resources back from those who continue to suck up even more of it and then we'll see if we got enough or not. Until then let's not just give away our humanity. [Post edited 6 Sep 2015 20:07]
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 20:51 - Sep 6 with 2286 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 20:05 - Sep 6 by 1BobbyHazell |
What a stupid, attempted point scoring failure of a question to end with? Really pathetic. I would say you are better than that, if I thought it was true. Of course the money should be spent on a poor and the NHS, because in a world where the c*nts t weren't running things that's what money would be for, looking after a society.
I'm not remotely advocating the arrival of millions of uneuducated blokes. The fact that you present it as though it were only a choice of these two extremes is ludicrous. I am, however, advocating the spending of the world's resources on looking after each other rather than it being hoovered up by the few. I appreciate what a lunatic that makes me to some of the more wiser loving souls on here.
The main thrust of my point is - people are insisting that we don't have enough money ( and I mean for us before we even start on immigrants). Well, they may well be right, but we'll only know when we've taken it back from the people who have taken so much from us even in the last 10 years of so-called economic crisis (see the article in my original post).
We have become so governed by this idea we've been fed that there is not enough that it's reached the point where even decent human beings are looking at pictures of children dying on a beach and trying to find excuses for why it's ok or it's those peoples fault. This is not the natural state of affairs, let's get our money and resources back from those who continue to suck up even more of it and then we'll see if we got enough or not. Until then let's not just give away our humanity. [Post edited 6 Sep 2015 20:07]
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Not really quite sure of the point you are making apart from we should all be nicer to each other.
I honestly don't think that right here and now that what to do with the rich has any bearing on how many immigrants the country can afford at the moment.
That's without considering whether it would be a good idea even if we had all the necessary cash knocking about. We still have social problems integrating previous waves of immigrants.
The best idea is to help them where they are most in need which is in the refugee camps next to Syria, which is exactly what Britain has been doing and has given twice as much in aid as Germany and more than all the other EU countries put together. | | | |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 21:05 - Sep 6 with 2257 views | NW5Hoop |
Yeah, economic migrants. Tossers. Send em all back where they came from. Which means, of course, that all the Britons across Europe, in Australia, South Africa, the US, Canada and countless other places will have to be repatriated too.
People always see economic migrants as foreign. But we produce a lot of them. In 2013 there were 141,000 British economic migrants. And that was the lowest numbers since 2001. It's a flood! Britons are swamping the rest of the world as they seek a better life! STOP THEM!
Every time some Phil Collins type leaves the country because of a Labour government's tax plans … that's economic migrant. Every time someone gets offered a better paid job in New York … that's an economic migrants. We just call them expats. | | | |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis (n/t) on 21:10 - Sep 6 with 2245 views | PunteR |
[Post edited 7 Sep 2015 6:07]
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| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 21:30 - Sep 6 with 2205 views | Hadders |
I agree with everything NW5Hoop says - we take a lot of immigrants, sure, but we shouldn`t forget that there are around 5 million British-born citizens living abroad. It seems to me that too few Brits currently appreciate the possible benefits of open borders in Europe for themselves and their families. Apart from young Britons now going to Germany for the much cheaper housing and so on, the same logic that brings eastern Europeans here could lead to many more Brits heading in the opposite direction, for early retirement or whatever. I`m guessing that a nice apartment on the Dalmatian coast of Croatia or overlooking the Black Sea in Bulgaria or Romania looks very affordable after London prices. As a nation, we are hopeless at languages and that needs to be pushed in schools, but the fact that English is the de facto common language of Europe should surely work to our advantage, too, making Europe seem more welcoming. The more people feel confident about moving aboard, even temporarily, and experience the benefits, the more they are likely to see themselves as "Europeans" as well as English or British, and to appreciate the advantages of open borders. [Post edited 6 Sep 2015 21:34]
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 21:58 - Sep 6 with 2147 views | HollowayRanger |
| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 18:58 - Sep 6 by 1BobbyHazell |
I would like to call out Holloway Ranger and Japimmigrantranger for down voting this post without actually commenting or debating it, and ask them their reasons why. If, as you pretend to claim Holloway, you care so much about our homeless why are you not supporting our using the resources of the super rich who have taken more wealth than they could ever possibly need to provide basic needs for homeless (a fair percentage of whom, as you rightly point out are ex service? If we don't have enough money to look after our own, there is only one place we are going to get it, those who currently have far too much of it. F****** obvious.
Japimmigrantranger, in a later post you talk about your fear for UK based family and friends because of riots. If you know your history, worldwide, you know that such riots generally only occur when the masses have been left too little by the elite having taken too much for themselves. So your comments would be appreciated on the down vote as well. |
I support the homeless the young and the old aged its called paying tax I don't like seeing it spent overseas ,we don't live in a state where those that don't have ,have the right to take from those that do if we did there would be chaos ,that said I hate the bankers and the mp's and their hangers on as much as the next guy I pray for the day blair stands trial failing that stops breathing
voted you down as we clearly DONT have the resources we have thousands of homeless already on the streets we have waiting lists in the tens of thousands already for homes, over crowded under funded schools ,over worked in debt hospitals where just now 15 cancer treatments have just had their funding stopped, old people living in poverty and plenty of unemployed ,oh and all the prisons are full as well (1 in 8 of which is a foreigner) if we sorted out all the above first then anything and everything after that could be used to help others but till then I say no to 15,000 or whatever the toal will be coming here and draining our resources even more |  |
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| Migrant/Refugee crisis on 22:27 - Sep 6 with 2115 views | WilloW4 |
Are you going to move to Bulgaria then? |  | | |
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