| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:28 - Oct 23 with 2092 views | judd |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:26 - Oct 23 by Daley_Lama |
Not the worst thing, your avatar is simpy stupid. |
Oh.
Bastard |  |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:33 - Oct 23 with 2073 views | nordenblue |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:15 - Oct 23 by Daley_Lama |
We could have done something without impacting revenue this season (if that happens) and peeing off some ST holders. We could have done it next summer.
I will happily state what i think is a fair measure, based on my previous views of how this will go.
If home attendances are up by 800 on average then i will consider it a success. If not, i wont. |
Why wait until next summer when there's still time to correct the massive errors previously made and inturn increase attendances for this season, while hopefully gaining more interest going into next season too?
Again your opinion on what's a success is personal to you and means about as much to the club as mine or anyone else's on here.
I can't for the life of me understand anyones annoyance at the clubs efforts to move massive strides to try and improve the notoriously shit crowds IMMEDIATELY,this should be applauded surely?
At the time everyone bought their season tickets this offer wasn't in the pipeline and RG wasn't even here so it's hardly like they've been planning to shaft all the existing ST holders from the start,if they had planned it I could understand people being pissed off now having the goal posts moved. |  | | |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:34 - Oct 23 with 2066 views | TVOS1907 |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:26 - Oct 23 by Daley_Lama |
Not the worst thing, your avatar is simpy stupid. |
Bully. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:43 - Oct 23 with 2048 views | Bobbyjoe |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 21:23 - Oct 23 by Daley_Lama |
Yep, agree with all of that too.
As a 5%er however I think it only fair to offer the alternate view where this incentive could fall flat on its face and hardly any new fans are enticed by this offer.
Any incentive for next season (eg Hartlepool scheme) is a totally separate matter, even if it is part of the same long term overall plan. New fans will not be attracted next season to get a ST because they took up this offer, they will be attracted instead by whatever new exciting offer is brought out for next season.
In other words, without a change on ST policy next season I would suspect 99% of those taking up this offer to not be ST holders next season. I do not believe that there will be waves of new fans who take up this offer who get season tickets the season after because of sudden brand loyalty.
They will only get one if the price is right, exactly the same reason that they have bought one of these half season tickets.
If this scheme on its own doesn't increase fan base, loses money and alienates some ST holders would it be fair to say it was a failure? |
I think that's the crux of it. People will always buy a bargain, even if they don't really want it, but first of all, they have to know about it.This offer will be taken up almost exclusively by current attenders. Even the mooted £100 season-tickets will only sell if virtually every person in Lancashire is somehow made aware of it. | | | |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:44 - Oct 23 with 2046 views | Daley_Lama |
I bought my ST off Rochdale AFC, not RG. I assume this plan was signed off by the board of RAFC.
I know the club is well run and managed, so i know this will be true.
I stated clearly what i consider a success criteria as my view, i don't think i could be any clearer.
Nobody else seems inclined to say what they personally think should be considered a success. Not what the club think, what you think. |  |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:45 - Oct 23 with 2042 views | judd |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:43 - Oct 23 by Bobbyjoe |
I think that's the crux of it. People will always buy a bargain, even if they don't really want it, but first of all, they have to know about it.This offer will be taken up almost exclusively by current attenders. Even the mooted £100 season-tickets will only sell if virtually every person in Lancashire is somehow made aware of it. |
Another seeing sense in my argument. What's your agenda? | |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:46 - Oct 23 with 2035 views | D_Alien |
This issue around what might be considered a success is a minefield, and it's nowt to do with good/bad/indifferent business planning
Raising our fanbase (our basic minimum gate for a run of the mill fixture on a crap Tuesday night) is always going to be dependent on how the team are doing. The two go together - success on and off the pitch. We've had relative success on the pitch without the other. If this, and future, ST initiatives and overall pricing structures were to succeed to the extent of increasing the fanbase by say, 500 with the team secure in midtable, why might that not be considered a success?
On the other hand, should we reach the playoffs or beyond I'd expect that to happen without any initiatives, and then some. By the same token, if we bombed back down to L2 any initiative to raise crowds is likely to fail.
I've no doubt there's been some business modelling by RG with the board before the half-price ST was announced, and like any good model it needs to be adaptable. Setting goals is great, but sporting reality intrudes for good or for bad, so no point setting up hostages to fortune. It's very much a case of having faith in the overall structure of the club, having acquired the ground and therefore the potential for additional footfall to add to revenues via bars and functions.
[Post edited 23 Oct 2016 22:49]
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:47 - Oct 23 with 2031 views | judd |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:44 - Oct 23 by Daley_Lama |
I bought my ST off Rochdale AFC, not RG. I assume this plan was signed off by the board of RAFC.
I know the club is well run and managed, so i know this will be true.
I stated clearly what i consider a success criteria as my view, i don't think i could be any clearer.
Nobody else seems inclined to say what they personally think should be considered a success. Not what the club think, what you think. |
Well I kinda did. | |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:51 - Oct 23 with 2016 views | Daley_Lama |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:47 - Oct 23 by judd |
Well I kinda did. |
Don't read your posts as they are stupid. | |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:53 - Oct 23 with 2006 views | 442Dale |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:44 - Oct 23 by Daley_Lama |
I bought my ST off Rochdale AFC, not RG. I assume this plan was signed off by the board of RAFC.
I know the club is well run and managed, so i know this will be true.
I stated clearly what i consider a success criteria as my view, i don't think i could be any clearer.
Nobody else seems inclined to say what they personally think should be considered a success. Not what the club think, what you think. |
A real buzz around the sales of the Half Season Tickets: an illustration that trying something different captures the imagination. |  |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:54 - Oct 23 with 2003 views | judd |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:51 - Oct 23 by Daley_Lama |
Don't read your posts as they are stupid. |
Clearly I just plagiarised yours in advance. | |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 23:05 - Oct 23 with 1979 views | Bobbyjoe |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:46 - Oct 23 by D_Alien |
This issue around what might be considered a success is a minefield, and it's nowt to do with good/bad/indifferent business planning
Raising our fanbase (our basic minimum gate for a run of the mill fixture on a crap Tuesday night) is always going to be dependent on how the team are doing. The two go together - success on and off the pitch. We've had relative success on the pitch without the other. If this, and future, ST initiatives and overall pricing structures were to succeed to the extent of increasing the fanbase by say, 500 with the team secure in midtable, why might that not be considered a success?
On the other hand, should we reach the playoffs or beyond I'd expect that to happen without any initiatives, and then some. By the same token, if we bombed back down to L2 any initiative to raise crowds is likely to fail.
I've no doubt there's been some business modelling by RG with the board before the half-price ST was announced, and like any good model it needs to be adaptable. Setting goals is great, but sporting reality intrudes for good or for bad, so no point setting up hostages to fortune. It's very much a case of having faith in the overall structure of the club, having acquired the ground and therefore the potential for additional footfall to add to revenues via bars and functions.
[Post edited 23 Oct 2016 22:49]
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Actually, I have a feeling Dale attendances are almost unique in bearing comparatively little relationship to events on the field (no evidence, just a hunch). I don't think attendances would go through the roof in the Championship, or fall off a cliff in the Conference. Going to the Dale is just something people do (more or less frequently)! | | | |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 23:06 - Oct 23 with 1974 views | Daley_Lama |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:53 - Oct 23 by 442Dale |
A real buzz around the sales of the Half Season Tickets: an illustration that trying something different captures the imagination. |
A buzz is about as quantifiable as scotch mist and tangeable too, letting everybody in for free could be considered as something different that captures the imagination.
I hope i'm not coming across as an agent provocateur. I'm not.
I simply want someone to tell me what is considered a success by doing this.
If this was a Bury initiative i suspect far more would be asking the same question. | |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 23:14 - Oct 23 with 1949 views | D_Alien |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 23:05 - Oct 23 by Bobbyjoe |
Actually, I have a feeling Dale attendances are almost unique in bearing comparatively little relationship to events on the field (no evidence, just a hunch). I don't think attendances would go through the roof in the Championship, or fall off a cliff in the Conference. Going to the Dale is just something people do (more or less frequently)! |
I know what you mean, and we're an awkward lot at the best of times, which RG is probably just beginning to realise! But maybe it takes someone who doesn't see things that way to try something that hasn't been tried before.
I hope he's got the same attitude as Hilly when he first took over, and his mindset is one of "I'll be buggered if I can't do summat about these bloody awful crowds" or whatever his own regional dialect comes out as. It worked for Hilly.
[Post edited 23 Oct 2016 23:15]
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 23:19 - Oct 23 with 1935 views | judd |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 23:05 - Oct 23 by Bobbyjoe |
Actually, I have a feeling Dale attendances are almost unique in bearing comparatively little relationship to events on the field (no evidence, just a hunch). I don't think attendances would go through the roof in the Championship, or fall off a cliff in the Conference. Going to the Dale is just something people do (more or less frequently)! |
And that is exactly the challenge the board face with regards attendances. Full credit to them in backing an initiative that aims to increase home support. I hope this is the first of many in a clearly constructed marketing campaign that provides sustained growth and not just a moment in time opportunity for those who'd go anyway to get in for half price.
Someone mentioned earlier about buying the stadium. There is a business award Rochdale Man of the Year. Our board of directors- to a man- deserve that accolade in recognition of their largely unsung achievements over the past 10 years. | |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 23:29 - Oct 23 with 1945 views | 442Dale |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 23:06 - Oct 23 by Daley_Lama |
A buzz is about as quantifiable as scotch mist and tangeable too, letting everybody in for free could be considered as something different that captures the imagination.
I hope i'm not coming across as an agent provocateur. I'm not.
I simply want someone to tell me what is considered a success by doing this.
If this was a Bury initiative i suspect far more would be asking the same question. |
You asked what others "personally think should be considered a success". Right now based on one story on the club website, that's what I think! It'll change, I'm sure. | |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 23:33 - Oct 23 with 1939 views | Daley_Lama |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 23:29 - Oct 23 by 442Dale |
You asked what others "personally think should be considered a success". Right now based on one story on the club website, that's what I think! It'll change, I'm sure. |
Fair point.
Your criteria for a success have therefore already been met before a ticket has been bought.
It's a success! | |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 23:45 - Oct 23 with 1926 views | Daley_Lama |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:46 - Oct 23 by D_Alien |
This issue around what might be considered a success is a minefield, and it's nowt to do with good/bad/indifferent business planning
Raising our fanbase (our basic minimum gate for a run of the mill fixture on a crap Tuesday night) is always going to be dependent on how the team are doing. The two go together - success on and off the pitch. We've had relative success on the pitch without the other. If this, and future, ST initiatives and overall pricing structures were to succeed to the extent of increasing the fanbase by say, 500 with the team secure in midtable, why might that not be considered a success?
On the other hand, should we reach the playoffs or beyond I'd expect that to happen without any initiatives, and then some. By the same token, if we bombed back down to L2 any initiative to raise crowds is likely to fail.
I've no doubt there's been some business modelling by RG with the board before the half-price ST was announced, and like any good model it needs to be adaptable. Setting goals is great, but sporting reality intrudes for good or for bad, so no point setting up hostages to fortune. It's very much a case of having faith in the overall structure of the club, having acquired the ground and therefore the potential for additional footfall to add to revenues via bars and functions.
[Post edited 23 Oct 2016 22:49]
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I didn't ignore this post btw, was on my phone aka in the pub.
I disagree and think that stating internally what is a success on this is paramount. I'm asking this externally.
There is no issue with setting out success criteria at the outset then rationalising these when outside factors come into play, such as playoffs, relegation form.
I equally expect that there will have been some business modelling (I'd term this as success criteria) and hope that as part of that discussion, there was a realisation that some (me) fans will be negatively affected by this scheme and there will be future revenue loss because of it from individuals (me) within this plan.
I do have overall faith in the structure of the club, I believe we have the best chairman we could have (I can't say ever as I hold Mr Kilpatrick in such high esteem) and the best manager we have ever had, no one else come close. The best academy structure we have ever had. Not quite the best pitch we have ever had. Beer? no opinion, all pies are good. [Post edited 23 Oct 2016 23:49]
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 08:34 - Oct 24 with 1806 views | aleanddale |
So if all the semi regulars - regulars who have no ST buy that's not great...
If this attracts 500 lapsed - stayaways it's a success.
If it attracts both plus some then bingo.
This is just the start. Let's look forward to what the summer brings.
Phase 2 and a big jump in home attendances. I hope so. | | | |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 08:36 - Oct 24 with 1804 views | rochedale |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 23:45 - Oct 23 by Daley_Lama |
I didn't ignore this post btw, was on my phone aka in the pub.
I disagree and think that stating internally what is a success on this is paramount. I'm asking this externally.
There is no issue with setting out success criteria at the outset then rationalising these when outside factors come into play, such as playoffs, relegation form.
I equally expect that there will have been some business modelling (I'd term this as success criteria) and hope that as part of that discussion, there was a realisation that some (me) fans will be negatively affected by this scheme and there will be future revenue loss because of it from individuals (me) within this plan.
I do have overall faith in the structure of the club, I believe we have the best chairman we could have (I can't say ever as I hold Mr Kilpatrick in such high esteem) and the best manager we have ever had, no one else come close. The best academy structure we have ever had. Not quite the best pitch we have ever had. Beer? no opinion, all pies are good. [Post edited 23 Oct 2016 23:49]
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I think that you can measure the success of this by seeing if the crowds have increased. If they have so much so that the revenue is also similar, I think you could call that a success. |  |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 08:56 - Oct 24 with 1786 views | roccydaleian |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 08:36 - Oct 24 by rochedale |
I think that you can measure the success of this by seeing if the crowds have increased. If they have so much so that the revenue is also similar, I think you could call that a success. |
Anything that stops you doing a streak will be a success IMO.  |  | | |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 08:59 - Oct 24 with 1783 views | upthedale |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 20:41 - Oct 23 by rochedale |
I will streak at a game if the club give you anything back, why should they? Nobody forced you to buy your ticket. This isn't the first instance of a sale. I buy clothes from River Island, often weekly, and often I will go in and see a garment at half the price of what I paid for it. Do I go and ask the manager to cough up the difference as I am a 'loyalist'? No I don't, because I realise that when a business has surpluss stock they often offer it at a reduced rate to help it sell. |
Comparing it to retail shops simply doesn't work. How often do you pay over £300 to River Island up front? |  | | |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 09:22 - Oct 24 with 1765 views | nordenblue |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 08:59 - Oct 24 by upthedale |
Comparing it to retail shops simply doesn't work. How often do you pay over £300 to River Island up front? |
Any company can produce a product at a set price,you either pay it and think it's good value or you don't bother,you can't then moan later that you've been ripped off having had the option not to purchase at the time?
I'd say that's pretty similar? | | | |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 13:56 - Oct 24 with 1626 views | upthedale |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 09:22 - Oct 24 by nordenblue |
Any company can produce a product at a set price,you either pay it and think it's good value or you don't bother,you can't then moan later that you've been ripped off having had the option not to purchase at the time?
I'd say that's pretty similar? |
Yeah I take your point, and you're right of course it is the business's prerogative to set prices at whatever they want whenever they want. That doesn't mean they necessarily should though, if it risks losing goodwill and upsetting loyal customers.
To entice us to buy a season ticket we were told we would make "substantial savings" over the season (I admit I just had a look at the letter that went out), obviously this wasn't a lie because I've no doubt it was the truth when the letter was written. But it has turned out to be wrong.
From a business perspective the season ticket holders are surely the best (non-corporate) customers that the club has. That's not me saying they're the biggest fans, I know some people can't get to all games and some don't wish to or can't spend a large amount of money upfront, but the season ticket holders provide the money up front and allow for more concrete budgeting etc. They’ve given the guaranteed income no matter what the league position is (or whatever the team sheet says when people read it in the pub  ).
I have never had any issues whatsoever with various one-off match promotions etc, and I wouldn’t even mind “breaking even” as such to get more fans in. But £65 is enough to get me a bit annoyed on this. As others have mentioned, even an acknowledgment of current season ticket holders in the news article would have softened the blow.
As Daley Lama has said, I understand other season ticket holders are behind it and I guess like Daley if it is only 5% that are unhappy then fair enough — a risk RAFC have taken. In that sense I am happy the club’s moving in the right direction, it’s the kind of thing we all hoped for at the start of the season. But I can’t fully support the initiative.
Out of interest, does anyone know whether any other club has done a promotion such as this where it’s worked out some season ticket holders have paid more than some non-season ticket holders?
Edit: Perhaps "among the best customers" would have been a better way to phrase. [Post edited 24 Oct 2016 14:05]
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 16:23 - Oct 24 with 1541 views | nordenblue |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 13:56 - Oct 24 by upthedale |
Yeah I take your point, and you're right of course it is the business's prerogative to set prices at whatever they want whenever they want. That doesn't mean they necessarily should though, if it risks losing goodwill and upsetting loyal customers.
To entice us to buy a season ticket we were told we would make "substantial savings" over the season (I admit I just had a look at the letter that went out), obviously this wasn't a lie because I've no doubt it was the truth when the letter was written. But it has turned out to be wrong.
From a business perspective the season ticket holders are surely the best (non-corporate) customers that the club has. That's not me saying they're the biggest fans, I know some people can't get to all games and some don't wish to or can't spend a large amount of money upfront, but the season ticket holders provide the money up front and allow for more concrete budgeting etc. They’ve given the guaranteed income no matter what the league position is (or whatever the team sheet says when people read it in the pub ).
I have never had any issues whatsoever with various one-off match promotions etc, and I wouldn’t even mind “breaking even” as such to get more fans in. But £65 is enough to get me a bit annoyed on this. As others have mentioned, even an acknowledgment of current season ticket holders in the news article would have softened the blow.
As Daley Lama has said, I understand other season ticket holders are behind it and I guess like Daley if it is only 5% that are unhappy then fair enough — a risk RAFC have taken. In that sense I am happy the club’s moving in the right direction, it’s the kind of thing we all hoped for at the start of the season. But I can’t fully support the initiative.
Out of interest, does anyone know whether any other club has done a promotion such as this where it’s worked out some season ticket holders have paid more than some non-season ticket holders?
Edit: Perhaps "among the best customers" would have been a better way to phrase. [Post edited 24 Oct 2016 14:05]
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Some very good points tbf,the "loss" you've currently suffered is surely outweighed by the gains in previous seasons by the benefits of a ST I'd like to think?
If the club is/has upset 5% of its customers that would suggest the other 95% are happy,that's not a bad place to start with bringing in a new initiative,admittedly 100% would be perfect for us all... | | | |
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