| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 20:13 - Oct 23 with 1789 views | Daley_Lama |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 20:01 - Oct 23 by 442Dale |
There will be a multitude of scenarios where people may consider themselves to be worse or better off. It really is down to individuals and that has to be respected.
It's an excellent initiative that needs adding to with a few more details now. One thing worth considering is that the initial announcement came late on a Friday. It could be just the start with it being a week before they go on sale - let's see what comes next. |
Yep, I was merely giving redress to a best case scenario that showed the smallest gap with an unremarkable example where somebody could be over £100 out of pocket.
If I was to take the "best case scenario" to pooh pooh this initiative then I could say...
1500 customers who would have paid full price for 11 games could take this offer up. To financially break even then the club would have to attract 1500 people who had no intention of entering Spotland to likewise take up this offer.
If however only people who are already attending some games take up this offer then the club will financially be worse off and likewise lost the goodwill of some ST holders.
In such a case it would be a rank bad initiative.
That would be very one sided however and is used for example only.
I genuinely hope this initiative is a success, as always, happy to be the un-happy 5%. |  |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 20:15 - Oct 23 with 1782 views | D_Alien |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 20:01 - Oct 23 by 442Dale |
There will be a multitude of scenarios where people may consider themselves to be worse or better off. It really is down to individuals and that has to be respected.
It's an excellent initiative that needs adding to with a few more details now. One thing worth considering is that the initial announcement came late on a Friday. It could be just the start with it being a week before they go on sale - let's see what comes next. |
We both expressed the hope, almost simultaneously on Friday afternoon, that the club will enable a deal to be worked out for those significantly out of pocket through buying a ST for this season - we were the first to do so.
It's certainly a matter of respect too. I won't respect the club if they don't, just as those who won't wait to see what happens don't deserve respect.
That's a perfectly respectable position, which others should respect.
[Post edited 23 Oct 2016 20:22]
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 20:29 - Oct 23 with 1735 views | 442Dale |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 20:13 - Oct 23 by Daley_Lama |
Yep, I was merely giving redress to a best case scenario that showed the smallest gap with an unremarkable example where somebody could be over £100 out of pocket.
If I was to take the "best case scenario" to pooh pooh this initiative then I could say...
1500 customers who would have paid full price for 11 games could take this offer up. To financially break even then the club would have to attract 1500 people who had no intention of entering Spotland to likewise take up this offer.
If however only people who are already attending some games take up this offer then the club will financially be worse off and likewise lost the goodwill of some ST holders.
In such a case it would be a rank bad initiative.
That would be very one sided however and is used for example only.
I genuinely hope this initiative is a success, as always, happy to be the un-happy 5%. |
Can't be certain on the figures, but I'd be very surprised if there were 1500 fans paying for every home game. That's probably one reason why such a move has occurred.
Let's get more people in the ground and see where we go from there. We certainly can't carry on with the numbers of us regulars falling year on year. Financially we should be in a decent position to support this for a couple of seasons because, as has often been said, we can't ever really rely on money through the turnstiles anyway. That's why developing players is so important to Dale.
If over time such ideas lead to more people at games, with the income reaching and surpassing previous levels reasonably quickly, then we'll have the added bonus of a bigger fanbase. For the long-term future we need more people right now, not more money. Though the latter would eventually follow the former... you'd think! |  |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 20:39 - Oct 23 with 1715 views | Daley_Lama |
There wouldn't have to be 1500 paying for every home game, aside from that I agree with you.
It would need 1500 different people attending some games over the season, not every game. That could easily equate to 1000 people paying cash at each home game which I would suspect is not too far off the mark.
The easiest correlation would be that for every existing fan who attends games who takes this offer up, a new fan has to be enticed by it.
A 1:1 relationship. | |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 20:41 - Oct 23 with 1708 views | rochedale |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 20:15 - Oct 23 by D_Alien |
We both expressed the hope, almost simultaneously on Friday afternoon, that the club will enable a deal to be worked out for those significantly out of pocket through buying a ST for this season - we were the first to do so.
It's certainly a matter of respect too. I won't respect the club if they don't, just as those who won't wait to see what happens don't deserve respect.
That's a perfectly respectable position, which others should respect.
[Post edited 23 Oct 2016 20:22]
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I will streak at a game if the club give you anything back, why should they? Nobody forced you to buy your ticket. This isn't the first instance of a sale. I buy clothes from River Island, often weekly, and often I will go in and see a garment at half the price of what I paid for it. Do I go and ask the manager to cough up the difference as I am a 'loyalist'? No I don't, because I realise that when a business has surpluss stock they often offer it at a reduced rate to help it sell. |  |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 20:44 - Oct 23 with 1694 views | D_Alien |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 20:41 - Oct 23 by rochedale |
I will streak at a game if the club give you anything back, why should they? Nobody forced you to buy your ticket. This isn't the first instance of a sale. I buy clothes from River Island, often weekly, and often I will go in and see a garment at half the price of what I paid for it. Do I go and ask the manager to cough up the difference as I am a 'loyalist'? No I don't, because I realise that when a business has surpluss stock they often offer it at a reduced rate to help it sell. |
Give me anything back?
I think you've picked the wrong target since I didn't buy a ST, mainly because I can't attend every game.
[Post edited 23 Oct 2016 20:45]
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 20:48 - Oct 23 with 1682 views | rochedale |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 20:44 - Oct 23 by D_Alien |
Give me anything back?
I think you've picked the wrong target since I didn't buy a ST, mainly because I can't attend every game.
[Post edited 23 Oct 2016 20:45]
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I was targeting the subject of your post rather than you individually. I won't go back and edit, but you can understand that when I said 'you' I meant 'ST holders'. | |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 20:55 - Oct 23 with 1663 views | D_Alien |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 20:48 - Oct 23 by rochedale |
I was targeting the subject of your post rather than you individually. I won't go back and edit, but you can understand that when I said 'you' I meant 'ST holders'. |
Fair enough
It'd be just too ironic i should be taken to task for moaning about having a current ST  | |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 20:56 - Oct 23 with 1660 views | 442Dale |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 20:39 - Oct 23 by Daley_Lama |
There wouldn't have to be 1500 paying for every home game, aside from that I agree with you.
It would need 1500 different people attending some games over the season, not every game. That could easily equate to 1000 people paying cash at each home game which I would suspect is not too far off the mark.
The easiest correlation would be that for every existing fan who attends games who takes this offer up, a new fan has to be enticed by it.
A 1:1 relationship. |
That only matters if they want to bring in the same income this season. Maybe that's not the aim? It could be more about the long term as suggested before and there's an awareness that it will cost X amount in gate receipts this season/maybe even next.
If it costs us 200k of whatever we get for Camps/Allen/Hogan/Andrew, it's well worth it to gain some more regulars. If not, we've tried at last and know where we stand. | |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 21:23 - Oct 23 with 1601 views | Daley_Lama |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 20:56 - Oct 23 by 442Dale |
That only matters if they want to bring in the same income this season. Maybe that's not the aim? It could be more about the long term as suggested before and there's an awareness that it will cost X amount in gate receipts this season/maybe even next.
If it costs us 200k of whatever we get for Camps/Allen/Hogan/Andrew, it's well worth it to gain some more regulars. If not, we've tried at last and know where we stand. |
Yep, agree with all of that too.
As a 5%er however I think it only fair to offer the alternate view where this incentive could fall flat on its face and hardly any new fans are enticed by this offer.
Any incentive for next season (eg Hartlepool scheme) is a totally separate matter, even if it is part of the same long term overall plan. New fans will not be attracted next season to get a ST because they took up this offer, they will be attracted instead by whatever new exciting offer is brought out for next season.
In other words, without a change on ST policy next season I would suspect 99% of those taking up this offer to not be ST holders next season. I do not believe that there will be waves of new fans who take up this offer who get season tickets the season after because of sudden brand loyalty.
They will only get one if the price is right, exactly the same reason that they have bought one of these half season tickets.
If this scheme on its own doesn't increase fan base, loses money and alienates some ST holders would it be fair to say it was a failure? | |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 21:37 - Oct 23 with 1569 views | 442Dale |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 21:23 - Oct 23 by Daley_Lama |
Yep, agree with all of that too.
As a 5%er however I think it only fair to offer the alternate view where this incentive could fall flat on its face and hardly any new fans are enticed by this offer.
Any incentive for next season (eg Hartlepool scheme) is a totally separate matter, even if it is part of the same long term overall plan. New fans will not be attracted next season to get a ST because they took up this offer, they will be attracted instead by whatever new exciting offer is brought out for next season.
In other words, without a change on ST policy next season I would suspect 99% of those taking up this offer to not be ST holders next season. I do not believe that there will be waves of new fans who take up this offer who get season tickets the season after because of sudden brand loyalty.
They will only get one if the price is right, exactly the same reason that they have bought one of these half season tickets.
If this scheme on its own doesn't increase fan base, loses money and alienates some ST holders would it be fair to say it was a failure? |
Until we know more, it really is difficult to say. That's why it'll be interesting to see what comes next.
Perhaps agreeing to that could benefit what's been accepted as being a good start in terms of finally addressing the situation? | |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 21:50 - Oct 23 with 1552 views | Daley_Lama |
I wouldn't get a project of the ground if i couldn't say what the success/fail criteria were.
I would expect this to be the same at Dale. | |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 21:56 - Oct 23 with 1538 views | TVOS1907 |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 21:50 - Oct 23 by Daley_Lama |
I wouldn't get a project of the ground if i couldn't say what the success/fail criteria were.
I would expect this to be the same at Dale. |
Do you want this project to succeed or fail, DL? |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:05 - Oct 23 with 1511 views | judd |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 21:23 - Oct 23 by Daley_Lama |
Yep, agree with all of that too.
As a 5%er however I think it only fair to offer the alternate view where this incentive could fall flat on its face and hardly any new fans are enticed by this offer.
Any incentive for next season (eg Hartlepool scheme) is a totally separate matter, even if it is part of the same long term overall plan. New fans will not be attracted next season to get a ST because they took up this offer, they will be attracted instead by whatever new exciting offer is brought out for next season.
In other words, without a change on ST policy next season I would suspect 99% of those taking up this offer to not be ST holders next season. I do not believe that there will be waves of new fans who take up this offer who get season tickets the season after because of sudden brand loyalty.
They will only get one if the price is right, exactly the same reason that they have bought one of these half season tickets.
If this scheme on its own doesn't increase fan base, loses money and alienates some ST holders would it be fair to say it was a failure? |
Having posted the gist of all this last night I can only say thank you for making me see I'm not the only one whose analysed the potential downside on here at any rate. |  |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:07 - Oct 23 with 1500 views | Daley_Lama |
Succeed of course, I have not expressed any opinion contrary to this throughout this thread. I have no agenda.
As a peed off Customer however i think it is not unjust for me to ask what is considered as success. Am i wrong in asking this? | |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:07 - Oct 23 with 1496 views | nordenblue |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 21:50 - Oct 23 by Daley_Lama |
I wouldn't get a project of the ground if i couldn't say what the success/fail criteria were.
I would expect this to be the same at Dale. |
Your definition of failure may well differ from mine or any of the directors too for that matter so thats subjective.
Whats certain is the club can't continue to do nothing as it's blatantly obvious which way our crowds are going,also we can't not try something for risk of failure either,even more so with a man like RG overseeing it having successfully implemented it previously(see cols post) |  | | |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:12 - Oct 23 with 1474 views | TVOS1907 |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:07 - Oct 23 by Daley_Lama |
Succeed of course, I have not expressed any opinion contrary to this throughout this thread. I have no agenda.
As a peed off Customer however i think it is not unjust for me to ask what is considered as success. Am i wrong in asking this? |
Not at all. I was just interested. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:13 - Oct 23 with 1467 views | 442Dale |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:07 - Oct 23 by Daley_Lama |
Succeed of course, I have not expressed any opinion contrary to this throughout this thread. I have no agenda.
As a peed off Customer however i think it is not unjust for me to ask what is considered as success. Am i wrong in asking this? |
Are you in the Trust? If so, send the question in via them.
Once the full details are out and the new ST have gone on sale, I'm sure the Trust will be more than happy to represent fans on the matter again. They did very effectively during the period when the ST info went out last April, so is this a possible route forward? | |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:15 - Oct 23 with 1456 views | Daley_Lama |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:07 - Oct 23 by nordenblue |
Your definition of failure may well differ from mine or any of the directors too for that matter so thats subjective.
Whats certain is the club can't continue to do nothing as it's blatantly obvious which way our crowds are going,also we can't not try something for risk of failure either,even more so with a man like RG overseeing it having successfully implemented it previously(see cols post) |
We could have done something without impacting revenue this season (if that happens) and peeing off some ST holders. We could have done it next summer.
I will happily state what i think is a fair measure, based on my previous views of how this will go.
If home attendances are up by 800 on average then i will consider it a success. If not, i wont. | |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:17 - Oct 23 with 1441 views | Daley_Lama |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:13 - Oct 23 by 442Dale |
Are you in the Trust? If so, send the question in via them.
Once the full details are out and the new ST have gone on sale, I'm sure the Trust will be more than happy to represent fans on the matter again. They did very effectively during the period when the ST info went out last April, so is this a possible route forward? |
No i'm not: i did however say earlier that next season season tickets are irrelevant to the success/failure of this, so waiting for that is irrelevant. [Post edited 23 Oct 2016 22:20]
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:18 - Oct 23 with 1429 views | Daley_Lama |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:12 - Oct 23 by TVOS1907 |
Not at all. I was just interested. |
Thanks for clarifying, i thought i was being called out once more. | |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:20 - Oct 23 with 1422 views | judd |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:18 - Oct 23 by Daley_Lama |
Thanks for clarifying, i thought i was being called out once more. |
It appears that some of the shaving foam off of my avatar has spilled onto yours.
Sincerest apologies lad. | |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:22 - Oct 23 with 1414 views | 442Dale |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:17 - Oct 23 by Daley_Lama |
No i'm not: i did however say earlier that next season season tickets are irrelevant to the success/failure of this, so waiting for that is irrelevant. [Post edited 23 Oct 2016 22:20]
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Then I'll be happy to send it in on yours and anyone else's behalf as has happened previously when questions have been collated from this board for Trust meetings with the club.
If we can find a way to make this renewed focus into building the fanbase even better, it's worth doing surely?
Edit after the edit! Sorry, saw the rest of your post. I meant send in a question around what you said earlier: "...it is not unjust for me to ask what is considered as success. Am i wrong in asking this?"
It's a valid question. The answer would be interesting. [Post edited 23 Oct 2016 22:25]
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:24 - Oct 23 with 1407 views | Daley_Lama |
Thanks for the offer, if i come up with any questiobs for the club i will do. | |
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| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:26 - Oct 23 with 1398 views | Daley_Lama |
| £100 Half Season Tickets! on 22:20 - Oct 23 by judd |
It appears that some of the shaving foam off of my avatar has spilled onto yours.
Sincerest apologies lad. |
Not the worst thing, your avatar is simpy stupid. | |
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