| Palestine 14:20 - Jul 11 with 49264 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
When are Israel going to stop bombing the f@k out of Palestine murdering innocent children .
No condemnation from our government .
It must be to do with the multi millions of pounds given to the government for weapons by the dreadful zionists in charge of their state . |  |
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| Palestine on 18:02 - Jul 24 with 1299 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| Palestine on 18:00 - Jul 24 by Lohengrin |
Just to underscore the horror the Israelis in the last hour have shelled a UN-run school killing 15 and wounding 200. This is the fourth time in the last week or so that UN facilities have been targetted. They've gone loco, there's no sating their blood lust.
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Yet again killing children
They really don't give a fuc k . | |
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| Palestine on 18:12 - Jul 24 with 1279 views | perchrockjack |
So now hits said Hamas doesn't have capability and is on it's own.really? Who the feck is supplying the rockers. Can't you lot offer an explanation |  |
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| Palestine on 18:16 - Jul 24 with 1274 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| Palestine on 18:12 - Jul 24 by perchrockjack |
So now hits said Hamas doesn't have capability and is on it's own.really? Who the feck is supplying the rockers. Can't you lot offer an explanation |
They get their rockets off anybody they can probably .
Iran would be favourites .
Although they probably make their own . [Post edited 24 Jul 2014 18:20]
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| Palestine on 18:23 - Jul 24 with 1265 views | perchrockjack |
by the way, Im not a rabbi and as Ive said ISRAEL is acting out of all proportion.
Go that... good...now then if they the ISRAELIS laid down their arms and went all Green and love and peace they would be obliterated by any ni9mber of arab states. I d suggest Vlad,as has many previous Russian presidents/butchers been supplying Hamas as its kinda keen to destabalise countries like Ukraine of which they re doing a good job. Now whos to blame there;Ukraine government or Russian loving Ukies.
Serbs did a fair bit of genocide too because of disputed lands.
Seems a common thing..
Anyway, Im bored of this now | |
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| Palestine on 18:33 - Jul 24 with 1253 views | Davillin |
| Palestine on 17:22 - Jul 24 by Lohengrin |
It's difficult to make any direct comparison with 1940, Dav, as regards Britain and Germany a better analogy would be The Winter War. The parallel between the Finns and Palestinians is that in both instances the natives are fighting a desperate battle in defence of their respective homelands in the face of ruthless Russian aggression.
Had I been a member of my grandparent's generation I feel certain my sense of fair play would have seen me call for The Finns to have been supplied with the wherewithal to mount a credible defence of their family and home. Consistency should see me call for the Palestinians to be given the same fighting chance. The scenes we are witnessing now are an affront to common decency.
I concede that others hold very differing opinions and that's their prerogative. I count us lucky to live somewhere that free expression isn't met with an artillery salvo. |
Sorry, Lohengrin, but pivoting away from my stated comparison is not acceptable.
Germany bombed Britain; Britain bombed Germany. Germany bombed London; Britain bombed Berlin. I don't know how much more direct the comparison can be. Germany intensified the bombing with V-1's and V-2's, including major cities, and the U.S. and Britain raised the ante to "'round-the-clock" bombing of everything, including major cities.
Britain, too, was fighting "a desperate battle in defence of their homeland in the face of ruthless [German] aggression." No? Then everything I heard through my childhood and youth, as well as History since then, were all lies? The Battle of Britain lies? "We shall fight them on the beaches," lies? "Never in history of mankind," lies? All the U.S. did to help Britain in those early days, when we had no dog in the fight in Europe, for lies?
Understand, I have zero problem whatsoever with the British responses to German aggression. Nor the U.S.'s. In war, retaliation is fair, including retaliation more powerful than the acts that prompted it. If you can't stand the heat, don't set my kitchen on fire -- or your house will be next. |  |
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| Palestine on 18:39 - Jul 24 with 1245 views | perchrockjack |
And IRAN was /is one of the countries to state it wanted to obliterate Israel. At last.
And please folks, lets not forget we Brits have done our fair share of butchering often in the name of taming the savages in Africa.
We did it in Kenya, South Africa, hell even in Cyprus but we were protecting our interests weren't we,
It all stinks | |
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| Palestine on 18:46 - Jul 24 with 1240 views | Davillin |
Is not Israel "fighting a desperate battle in defence of their . . . homeland[] in the face of ruthless [radical Islamist] aggression" -- now and threatened?
Somebody's missing something here, and I'm pretty sure it's not me. | |
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| Palestine on 18:48 - Jul 24 with 1240 views | Lohengrin |
| Palestine on 18:33 - Jul 24 by Davillin |
Sorry, Lohengrin, but pivoting away from my stated comparison is not acceptable.
Germany bombed Britain; Britain bombed Germany. Germany bombed London; Britain bombed Berlin. I don't know how much more direct the comparison can be. Germany intensified the bombing with V-1's and V-2's, including major cities, and the U.S. and Britain raised the ante to "'round-the-clock" bombing of everything, including major cities.
Britain, too, was fighting "a desperate battle in defence of their homeland in the face of ruthless [German] aggression." No? Then everything I heard through my childhood and youth, as well as History since then, were all lies? The Battle of Britain lies? "We shall fight them on the beaches," lies? "Never in history of mankind," lies? All the U.S. did to help Britain in those early days, when we had no dog in the fight in Europe, for lies?
Understand, I have zero problem whatsoever with the British responses to German aggression. Nor the U.S.'s. In war, retaliation is fair, including retaliation more powerful than the acts that prompted it. If you can't stand the heat, don't set my kitchen on fire -- or your house will be next. |
I still fail to see the parallel, Dav? Honestly. Are you saying the Israeli actions are entirely justified? I hope that's not the case. If we must point to an event from World War II to find similarities to what's happening now then The SS liquidation of the civilian population of Oradour-sur-Glane in retaliation for The Maquis bombing campaign lends itself perfectly. |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Palestine on 18:51 - Jul 24 with 1238 views | Lohengrin |
| Palestine on 18:46 - Jul 24 by Davillin |
Is not Israel "fighting a desperate battle in defence of their . . . homeland[] in the face of ruthless [radical Islamist] aggression" -- now and threatened?
Somebody's missing something here, and I'm pretty sure it's not me. |
It's only their land in as much as it's been stolen and possession, as the saying goes, is nine tenths of the law. That's the point a lot are trying to make. They are an occupying, alien force. | |
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| Palestine on 19:02 - Jul 24 with 1226 views | Davillin |
| Palestine on 18:48 - Jul 24 by Lohengrin |
I still fail to see the parallel, Dav? Honestly. Are you saying the Israeli actions are entirely justified? I hope that's not the case. If we must point to an event from World War II to find similarities to what's happening now then The SS liquidation of the civilian population of Oradour-sur-Glane in retaliation for The Maquis bombing campaign lends itself perfectly. |
It's hard to respond when my words and meaning are misdirected or even distorted. I'm not saying that anyone in this situation is "entirely justified."
I am saying that defending oneself and one's survival is one of the Imperatives of sentient life.
[Another pivot, and a false comparison at that.] | |
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| Palestine on 19:09 - Jul 24 with 1216 views | Davillin |
| Palestine on 18:51 - Jul 24 by Lohengrin |
It's only their land in as much as it's been stolen and possession, as the saying goes, is nine tenths of the law. That's the point a lot are trying to make. They are an occupying, alien force. |
The British who defended their "homeland" against German bombing during WW2 -- were they there at the creation of the universe?
Or did they acquire it -- by stealing or otherwise -- from other peoples who lived on the land before the British did? [I strenuously avoid defining "British," not because I can't, but because for this point it does not matter.]
You err when attempting to define "homeland" not as where a people live, but with some kind of "legitimate acquisition." That's a viper's nest, logically speaking. | |
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| Palestine on 19:13 - Jul 24 with 1201 views | Lohengrin |
| Palestine on 19:02 - Jul 24 by Davillin |
It's hard to respond when my words and meaning are misdirected or even distorted. I'm not saying that anyone in this situation is "entirely justified."
I am saying that defending oneself and one's survival is one of the Imperatives of sentient life.
[Another pivot, and a false comparison at that.] |
There was no attempt at misdirection on my part, Dav, it's probably that we are looking at the situation from completely different directions. The Israelis are claiming aggrieved nation status and you are going along with that. Is that a fair assertion? My contention is that claim is entirely fraudulent. The right and any claim to sympathy lies not with them but entirely with their hapless victims. You've probably seen criminals mount all manner of defences in your time but I'm sure justifiable infanticide is a new one for us both. [Post edited 24 Jul 2014 19:39]
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| Palestine on 19:15 - Jul 24 with 1197 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Palestine on 18:33 - Jul 24 by Davillin |
Sorry, Lohengrin, but pivoting away from my stated comparison is not acceptable.
Germany bombed Britain; Britain bombed Germany. Germany bombed London; Britain bombed Berlin. I don't know how much more direct the comparison can be. Germany intensified the bombing with V-1's and V-2's, including major cities, and the U.S. and Britain raised the ante to "'round-the-clock" bombing of everything, including major cities.
Britain, too, was fighting "a desperate battle in defence of their homeland in the face of ruthless [German] aggression." No? Then everything I heard through my childhood and youth, as well as History since then, were all lies? The Battle of Britain lies? "We shall fight them on the beaches," lies? "Never in history of mankind," lies? All the U.S. did to help Britain in those early days, when we had no dog in the fight in Europe, for lies?
Understand, I have zero problem whatsoever with the British responses to German aggression. Nor the U.S.'s. In war, retaliation is fair, including retaliation more powerful than the acts that prompted it. If you can't stand the heat, don't set my kitchen on fire -- or your house will be next. |
As a comparison with what's happening in Gaza now, that's just downright offensive. |  |
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| Palestine on 19:27 - Jul 24 with 1181 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| Palestine on 19:15 - Jul 24 by exiledclaseboy |
As a comparison with what's happening in Gaza now, that's just downright offensive. |
The oppressed will always fight back | |
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| Palestine on 19:30 - Jul 24 with 1169 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
So who will be standing trial for the Israeli war crimes committed?
I can't see them putting Netanyahu in the dock, will it be the military commander? I hope they are brought to justice. |  |
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| Palestine on 19:34 - Jul 24 with 1176 views | Lohengrin |
| Palestine on 19:09 - Jul 24 by Davillin |
The British who defended their "homeland" against German bombing during WW2 -- were they there at the creation of the universe?
Or did they acquire it -- by stealing or otherwise -- from other peoples who lived on the land before the British did? [I strenuously avoid defining "British," not because I can't, but because for this point it does not matter.]
You err when attempting to define "homeland" not as where a people live, but with some kind of "legitimate acquisition." That's a viper's nest, logically speaking. |
The great tragedy of the European theatre in World War II, as I'm sure you as an Italian-American are well aware, was the internecine nature of it. What is a Briton? The same as a German, as a Dutchman, as a Norwegian et al, if you ask me. We are so closely interrelated as to be practically indistinguishable. What makes for a homeland? I'm loathe to borrow a phrase from the Third Reich era on a thread like this but there is none better, by way of descriptive value than blood and soil. Rootedness.
The Pale Settlement emigres in Palestine are searching for a rootedness of their own. I understand that and fully comprehend the reasons why. The problem is Palestine wasn't empty so they set about clearing it with terror and mayhem for tools. You'd have to have ice blood in your veins and a stone in place of a heart not to feel desperately sorry for the Palestinians. You and I are possessed of neither. | |
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| Palestine on 19:35 - Jul 24 with 1175 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
It seems, reading up on this ,that Israel do not go by any rules so I doubt nobody will be put on trial. | |
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| Palestine on 19:37 - Jul 24 with 1172 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Palestine on 19:30 - Jul 24 by DwightYorkeSuperstar |
So who will be standing trial for the Israeli war crimes committed?
I can't see them putting Netanyahu in the dock, will it be the military commander? I hope they are brought to justice. |
Israel has been ignoring UN resolutions with impunity for decades and I don't expect that to change now. | |
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| Palestine on 19:39 - Jul 24 with 1169 views | exiledclaseboy |
Israel is carrying out a very effective recruitment campaign for the next generation of Hamas fighters, that's for sure.
This post has been edited by an administrator | |
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| Palestine on 19:40 - Jul 24 with 1164 views | Davillin |
| Palestine on 19:13 - Jul 24 by Lohengrin |
There was no attempt at misdirection on my part, Dav, it's probably that we are looking at the situation from completely different directions. The Israelis are claiming aggrieved nation status and you are going along with that. Is that a fair assertion? My contention is that claim is entirely fraudulent. The right and any claim to sympathy lies not with them but entirely with their hapless victims. You've probably seen criminals mount all manner of defences in your time but I'm sure justifiable infanticide is a new one for us both. [Post edited 24 Jul 2014 19:39]
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"Attempt" or not, you scrupulously avoid my comparison. That's O.K. as a way to deal with it, and I shall refer to it no longer on this thread.
I'm not looking at the situation from any "direction," nor is it a fair assertion that I have any attitude or opinion regarding anyone's "aggrieved nation status." I'm trying to be as objective and rational as I can be with regard to the specific questions of, I suppose he best word choice is "uniqueness." of the responses of both sides [N.B. the last clause is an edit to express what I intended.].
Both zoological behavioral science and human behavioral science agree that there are certain "imperatives" in all sentient creatures. "Imperatives" are those things that an individual or species will fight to the death to protect.
Self-survival and survival of the species, and as sub-sets. reproduction, and territory are the main imperatives as I remember. There are others, not germane here.
When an imperative is threatened, no species gets into picky disputation about the fine points of "rights," or "legitimacy of possession," or anything like that. Depending on the species and the imperatives, the responses available are fight, flight, or submission. Even, in the case of lemmings, and sometimes even humans [like Jonestown] mass suicide.
This is probably the most important thing I'll say about this whole subject: Extremely sadly, the situation in "Palestine" is precisely that both sides are ferociously defending imperatives.
Most posters on this thread are trying to establish "rights" and "legitimacy of possession" so that blame can be placed [and for other reasons which I will leave to readers]. And all are missing the point completely.
p.s. This is all I can say on the matter, so it's all I'm going to say. Make of it what you will. [Post edited 24 Jul 2014 19:44]
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| Palestine on 19:43 - Jul 24 with 1158 views | Flashberryjack |
| Palestine on 19:39 - Jul 24 by exiledclaseboy |
Israel is carrying out a very effective recruitment campaign for the next generation of Hamas fighters, that's for sure.
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That is so very tragically true. |  |
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| Palestine on 19:52 - Jul 24 with 1147 views | Lohengrin |
| Palestine on 19:40 - Jul 24 by Davillin |
"Attempt" or not, you scrupulously avoid my comparison. That's O.K. as a way to deal with it, and I shall refer to it no longer on this thread.
I'm not looking at the situation from any "direction," nor is it a fair assertion that I have any attitude or opinion regarding anyone's "aggrieved nation status." I'm trying to be as objective and rational as I can be with regard to the specific questions of, I suppose he best word choice is "uniqueness." of the responses of both sides [N.B. the last clause is an edit to express what I intended.].
Both zoological behavioral science and human behavioral science agree that there are certain "imperatives" in all sentient creatures. "Imperatives" are those things that an individual or species will fight to the death to protect.
Self-survival and survival of the species, and as sub-sets. reproduction, and territory are the main imperatives as I remember. There are others, not germane here.
When an imperative is threatened, no species gets into picky disputation about the fine points of "rights," or "legitimacy of possession," or anything like that. Depending on the species and the imperatives, the responses available are fight, flight, or submission. Even, in the case of lemmings, and sometimes even humans [like Jonestown] mass suicide.
This is probably the most important thing I'll say about this whole subject: Extremely sadly, the situation in "Palestine" is precisely that both sides are ferociously defending imperatives.
Most posters on this thread are trying to establish "rights" and "legitimacy of possession" so that blame can be placed [and for other reasons which I will leave to readers]. And all are missing the point completely.
p.s. This is all I can say on the matter, so it's all I'm going to say. Make of it what you will. [Post edited 24 Jul 2014 19:44]
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But it really is imperative that rights and legitimacy of possession are established and respected. Vital. The alternative which you have perhaps hinted at there is a no-holds-barred Darwinian struggle for mastery. War without end. | |
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| Palestine on 19:56 - Jul 24 with 1141 views | Davillin |
| Palestine on 19:15 - Jul 24 by exiledclaseboy |
As a comparison with what's happening in Gaza now, that's just downright offensive. |
Dresden. | |
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| Palestine on 19:59 - Jul 24 with 1139 views | Davillin |
| Palestine on 19:52 - Jul 24 by Lohengrin |
But it really is imperative that rights and legitimacy of possession are established and respected. Vital. The alternative which you have perhaps hinted at there is a no-holds-barred Darwinian struggle for mastery. War without end. |
I used "imperative" not in the common sense, as you do, but in the specific scientific sense as described in my post. I make no further comment on the rest of your post, above. [Post edited 24 Jul 2014 20:00]
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