| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea 15:37 - Apr 7 with 23475 views | Dyfnant |
Title says it all. |  |
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| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 15:25 - Apr 9 with 2460 views | E20Jack |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 15:19 - Apr 9 by jack247 |
If we had a striker that could hold the ball up then we would create a lot more from midfield.
A contribution of 5 league goals, a couple of clever assists in fairness but very little else is what it is. If he was scoring or contributing more, he’d have started more games
And stop making things up. I didn’t blame him for our complete lack of creativity. He’s played his part in that, but he’s far from the only reason we don’t create or score much. |
5 goals, a coupke of clever assists... In 15 starts.
I didnt make it up, you said him being up front was part of the reason we dont create much, that is exactly what I said it was - laying blame on him. Ridiculous considering he has started less than half our games.
He is the club top scorer and only 1 behind our leading league scorer and managed it in 15 less starts so the argument he would have started more if he scored more doesnt hold much weight. He is not a starter due to the position we find ourselves in and his inexperience. Which is comoletely understandable. |  |
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| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 15:33 - Apr 9 with 2444 views | jack247 |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 15:25 - Apr 9 by E20Jack |
5 goals, a coupke of clever assists... In 15 starts.
I didnt make it up, you said him being up front was part of the reason we dont create much, that is exactly what I said it was - laying blame on him. Ridiculous considering he has started less than half our games.
He is the club top scorer and only 1 behind our leading league scorer and managed it in 15 less starts so the argument he would have started more if he scored more doesnt hold much weight. He is not a starter due to the position we find ourselves in and his inexperience. Which is comoletely understandable. |
You need me to explain the difference between ‘quite likely a part of why 5 goals is such a high percentage of our overall tally’ and blaming him for our complete lack of creativity? You have a habit of seriously embellishing what people say.
As I said before, he’s a massive step up from the backups we have had in the past, but I’m pretty confident we would have more points and more goals as a team by now with a rounded PL striker to call on. It’s not his fault the Bony signing hasn’t worked out. |  | | |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 15:41 - Apr 9 with 2428 views | E20Jack |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 15:33 - Apr 9 by jack247 |
You need me to explain the difference between ‘quite likely a part of why 5 goals is such a high percentage of our overall tally’ and blaming him for our complete lack of creativity? You have a habit of seriously embellishing what people say.
As I said before, he’s a massive step up from the backups we have had in the past, but I’m pretty confident we would have more points and more goals as a team by now with a rounded PL striker to call on. It’s not his fault the Bony signing hasn’t worked out. |
You will have to explain why it isn't then, seems self explanitory to me. You are saying it is partly down to his weakness why we do not score more as a team yes? That is the only conclusion anyone can draw from the statement you made. Which is nonsense considering he has only started 15 games and scored 5 and assisted a few.
We would have scored more if we had a better player in any of our attacking positions surely? Same goes for every team the world over, that is no argument to the ludicrous claim that our club top goalscorer is not PL standard. [Post edited 9 Apr 2018 15:48]
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| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 16:01 - Apr 9 with 2413 views | jack247 |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 15:41 - Apr 9 by E20Jack |
You will have to explain why it isn't then, seems self explanitory to me. You are saying it is partly down to his weakness why we do not score more as a team yes? That is the only conclusion anyone can draw from the statement you made. Which is nonsense considering he has only started 15 games and scored 5 and assisted a few.
We would have scored more if we had a better player in any of our attacking positions surely? Same goes for every team the world over, that is no argument to the ludicrous claim that our club top goalscorer is not PL standard. [Post edited 9 Apr 2018 15:48]
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The words ‘part’ and ‘complete’ are a bit of a clue.
I said ‘a rounded PL striker’ you interpreted that as ‘a better player’ and agreed. Your words not mine. | | | |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 16:09 - Apr 9 with 2400 views | E20Jack |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 16:01 - Apr 9 by jack247 |
The words ‘part’ and ‘complete’ are a bit of a clue.
I said ‘a rounded PL striker’ you interpreted that as ‘a better player’ and agreed. Your words not mine. |
It was the notion I had an issue with, not the language. To give any mentionable blame of our lack of creativity to a back up striker who is our top scorer is madness.
Of course they are my words, a more rounded player in any position is generally going to be a better player. Saying it and being able to get one however are two wildly different things. Lukaku is a more rounded striker than Abraham, get him in and I agree we would probably score more, doing that is unrealistic though. | |
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| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 16:19 - Apr 9 with 2392 views | jack247 |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 16:09 - Apr 9 by E20Jack |
It was the notion I had an issue with, not the language. To give any mentionable blame of our lack of creativity to a back up striker who is our top scorer is madness.
Of course they are my words, a more rounded player in any position is generally going to be a better player. Saying it and being able to get one however are two wildly different things. Lukaku is a more rounded striker than Abraham, get him in and I agree we would probably score more, doing that is unrealistic though. |
I said ‘a rounded striker’ not ‘a more rounded striker’. To paraphrase, a ‘decent’ not a ‘better’ striker. You read it as better though and with 5 PL goals, I can understand why.
If you reply to what people say rather than what you’d like them to say to suit your viewpoint, you may have more productive discussions. | | | |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 16:26 - Apr 9 with 2380 views | E20Jack |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 16:19 - Apr 9 by jack247 |
I said ‘a rounded striker’ not ‘a more rounded striker’. To paraphrase, a ‘decent’ not a ‘better’ striker. You read it as better though and with 5 PL goals, I can understand why.
If you reply to what people say rather than what you’d like them to say to suit your viewpoint, you may have more productive discussions. |
They are the same thing, we have already established that Tammy is not a rounded striker due to his lack of physicality. Ayew isn't either due to his lack of height.
Surely anyone that is described as a rounded striker by definition will be ''more rounded'' than someone that has been established as not yet rounded wouldn't they? You seem to be just getting silly now. | |
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| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 16:48 - Apr 9 with 2371 views | jack247 |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 16:26 - Apr 9 by E20Jack |
They are the same thing, we have already established that Tammy is not a rounded striker due to his lack of physicality. Ayew isn't either due to his lack of height.
Surely anyone that is described as a rounded striker by definition will be ''more rounded'' than someone that has been established as not yet rounded wouldn't they? You seem to be just getting silly now. |
I’ll dumb the language down.
If we had a better striker (more rounded) than Tammy. We’d be better off. Obviously. In both our views.
If we had a decent (rounded) striker, we’d be better off in my view. You seem to be agreeing with this too?
And again, I’ll say, as a backup he’s fine. | | | |
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| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 16:58 - Apr 9 with 2360 views | E20Jack |
Its not dumbing language down, it is being accurate instead of vague.
Decent is still very subjective, Abraham is decent, hence why he is our top scorer in a season we are 15th. So it would depend who the player is. If he is better than Tammy then yes I would agree, if he is not I wouldnt. | |
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| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 17:12 - Apr 9 with 2350 views | jack247 |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 16:58 - Apr 9 by E20Jack |
Its not dumbing language down, it is being accurate instead of vague.
Decent is still very subjective, Abraham is decent, hence why he is our top scorer in a season we are 15th. So it would depend who the player is. If he is better than Tammy then yes I would agree, if he is not I wouldnt. |
No mate, it’s dumbing down to a level you can’t deliberately misinterpret.
Replace ‘rounded’ or ‘decent’ with ‘average’ PL striker if you want. | | | |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 17:17 - Apr 9 with 2340 views | E20Jack |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 17:12 - Apr 9 by jack247 |
No mate, it’s dumbing down to a level you can’t deliberately misinterpret.
Replace ‘rounded’ or ‘decent’ with ‘average’ PL striker if you want. |
I have not misinterpreted anything. You just cannot see they mean the same thing. Saying if we had a rounded PL striker we would score more, is the same statement as ''more rounded'' as we have established none of our strikers are rounded, not even the great Wilf who seriously lacks pace.
Which is it to be? Decent or average? They mean very different things, no doubt if I use one without prior clarification you will accuse me of misinterpreting what you said. This is your statement not mine, what I want is irrelevant. | |
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| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 07:00 - Apr 10 with 2232 views | Gowerjack |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 15:51 - Apr 7 by Neath_Jack |
Said it then and i'll say it again, should have kept Oli here.
He scored again today too. |
Nope.
Neither are good enough for the PL. |  |
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| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 07:21 - Apr 10 with 2209 views | STID2017 |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 07:00 - Apr 10 by Gowerjack |
Nope.
Neither are good enough for the PL. |
Indeed.
Our problem is with Bony injured, we have no striker worthy of note in the squad to fall back on when Jordan Ayew isn't available.
McBurnie will never make it in the PL, whilst Abraham may, but it will be long after he has gone from us, and needs to be in a much better side, where he doesn't have to hunt for the chances so much |  |
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| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 08:08 - Apr 10 with 2194 views | Neath_Jack |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 07:21 - Apr 10 by STID2017 |
Indeed.
Our problem is with Bony injured, we have no striker worthy of note in the squad to fall back on when Jordan Ayew isn't available.
McBurnie will never make it in the PL, whilst Abraham may, but it will be long after he has gone from us, and needs to be in a much better side, where he doesn't have to hunt for the chances so much |
What do you see that sets Tammy apart from McBurnie then, to make that sort of statement? The only redeeming feature is that they both know where the goal is (certainly so in the Championship). Other than that, OM has much more to his all round game, in effort, heading ability, making runs, chasing back, i could go on... |  |
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| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 08:45 - Apr 10 with 2175 views | E20Jack |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 08:08 - Apr 10 by Neath_Jack |
What do you see that sets Tammy apart from McBurnie then, to make that sort of statement? The only redeeming feature is that they both know where the goal is (certainly so in the Championship). Other than that, OM has much more to his all round game, in effort, heading ability, making runs, chasing back, i could go on... |
Tammy is an absolute gem of a striker. A gem of a striker that is currently learning his trade and still physically developing. But his understanding of positioning and sense of where to be in attacking situations is something I have not seen since Michu, and not in a Swans shirt for the 20 years previous to him.
He reminds me of when Daniel Sturridge broke onto the scene, not the same game, but their instinct and positional sense is something that is instantly recognisable. I firmly believe if Sturridge didn't have his mental/physical issues he would be one of the best England have produced in the modern PL era.
McBurnie is industrious, similar in physical stature but I don't feel like he will fill out much more than he has although a similar age, he looks like a natural ectopmorph. McBurnie also has an eye for goal but not in the same predatory instinct style as the likes of Abraham. McBurnie will probably out perform where his ability natural would take him due to sheer work ethic. But I can almost guarantee their career path trajectory will be very different indeed. | |
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| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 09:50 - Apr 10 with 2139 views | jack247 |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 08:08 - Apr 10 by Neath_Jack |
What do you see that sets Tammy apart from McBurnie then, to make that sort of statement? The only redeeming feature is that they both know where the goal is (certainly so in the Championship). Other than that, OM has much more to his all round game, in effort, heading ability, making runs, chasing back, i could go on... |
There are two ways to interpret that question.
Which of them will go on to have the better career?
Which of them would have been better for us this season?
I don’t disagree with much of what E20 says about Tammys potential, the ceiling is probably a lot higher for him than it is for Oli. This season though, he just hasn’t had the physicality to impose himself on defences. That’s probably more important than vision or poaching, especially as a lone striker.
I wanted to see him playing off Bony, but it only happened a couple of times and they didn’t have much chance to form a partnership. | | | |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 11:00 - Apr 10 with 2109 views | Dippy |
We can only go off the here and now.. McBurnie and Abraham have a lot to do to make it in this league.
26 games and 5 goals is not enough.. especially Tammy's style of play.. if he doesn't score, he's pretty much a burden.. he's a goalscorer, and in teams like ours we need a little bit more..
I'm surprised he hasn't come off the bench more whilst searching for an equaliser. | |
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| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 11:33 - Apr 10 with 2086 views | E20Jack |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 11:00 - Apr 10 by Dippy |
We can only go off the here and now.. McBurnie and Abraham have a lot to do to make it in this league.
26 games and 5 goals is not enough.. especially Tammy's style of play.. if he doesn't score, he's pretty much a burden.. he's a goalscorer, and in teams like ours we need a little bit more..
I'm surprised he hasn't come off the bench more whilst searching for an equaliser. |
Bit of a stretch so say he has played 26 games though Skip.
Tammy has played 1588 mins of PL football, so 17.5 games essentially. A goal every 3.5 games.
Jordan Ayew, who many see as our biggest goal threat has played 2319 mins of PL football. 25.5 games. A goal every 4.3 ish.
Tammy is our biggest direct goal threat. | |
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| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 12:32 - Apr 10 with 2062 views | Neath_Jack |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 09:50 - Apr 10 by jack247 |
There are two ways to interpret that question.
Which of them will go on to have the better career?
Which of them would have been better for us this season?
I don’t disagree with much of what E20 says about Tammys potential, the ceiling is probably a lot higher for him than it is for Oli. This season though, he just hasn’t had the physicality to impose himself on defences. That’s probably more important than vision or poaching, especially as a lone striker.
I wanted to see him playing off Bony, but it only happened a couple of times and they didn’t have much chance to form a partnership. |
"McBurnie will never make it in the PL, whilst Abraham may".
That was what i was asking STID to explain.
I'm not saying i disagree with it massively, one way or the other.
But from what i have seen in front of my eyes, there is nothing to separate them, other than Tammys parent club is obviously Chelsea, so that will make people a bit dewy eyed over it. And i will stick with what I've seen of the pair of them, McBurnie has a better all round game at the moment. | |
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| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 13:09 - Apr 10 with 2041 views | jack247 |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 11:33 - Apr 10 by E20Jack |
Bit of a stretch so say he has played 26 games though Skip.
Tammy has played 1588 mins of PL football, so 17.5 games essentially. A goal every 3.5 games.
Jordan Ayew, who many see as our biggest goal threat has played 2319 mins of PL football. 25.5 games. A goal every 4.3 ish.
Tammy is our biggest direct goal threat. |
Tammy is our best finisher.
I don’t have any stats to back it up, but we are more likely as a team to score goals and win games with Jordan Ayew playing. He doesn’t just bring goals. It’s a team game. | | | |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 13:37 - Apr 10 with 2015 views | Taliesin |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 07:21 - Apr 10 by STID2017 |
Indeed.
Our problem is with Bony injured, we have no striker worthy of note in the squad to fall back on when Jordan Ayew isn't available.
McBurnie will never make it in the PL, whilst Abraham may, but it will be long after he has gone from us, and needs to be in a much better side, where he doesn't have to hunt for the chances so much |
McBurnie may make it as a premier league striker because he is willing to put in a shift and work hard at developing his game.
Abraham may play in the Premier League as clubs will be willing to take a chance on a Chelsea reject. Ultimately however he will end up in the Championship.
Why we decided to develop somebody else's player rather than our own is unveleivable |  | | |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 01:52 - Apr 11 with 1890 views | E20Jack |
| Abraham, more Colchester than Chelsea on 13:09 - Apr 10 by jack247 |
Tammy is our best finisher.
I don’t have any stats to back it up, but we are more likely as a team to score goals and win games with Jordan Ayew playing. He doesn’t just bring goals. It’s a team game. |
Agreed, hence why Ayew is an excellent forward in the prime of his career and gets the nod.
Our best direct goal threat however is Tammy Abraham - as he has shown thus far and has been vital to picking up essential points to see us where we are. | |
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