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Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 12:02 - Aug 13 by TVOS1907
I think developing and selling on our own players (and doing the same with the 'broken toys'), as well as widening the use of the ground, are other parts of the sustainability.
Certainly, greater utilisation of ground facilities, but apart from that, the increase gates/sell players model is pretty much what's been in place, right up to about 2020... before the Ogdens took over
Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 12:08 - Aug 13 by D_Alien
Certainly, greater utilisation of ground facilities, but apart from that, the increase gates/sell players model is pretty much what's been in place, right up to about 2020... before the Ogdens took over
Aye, but Ethan Brierley and Matheus Mane aside, it's sort of fallen by the wayside.
Maestro? No.
Elite? No.
Heavyweight poster? No.
Able to be rational and not over-react to individual results? Yes.
0
Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 13:24 - Aug 13 with 3046 views
Whilst the reinstatement of the academy is certainly a positive and will hopefully allow us to develop our own players and maybe sell them on, I fail to see how it can be budgeted for in much the same way as going on a good cup run and drawing a big team. It's nice but it's a bonus. I suppose you can try to play the law of averages and get the most out of a situation should it arise by clever contracts and sell on etc. Just that there's no guaranteed fixed income to budget from (in my opinion).
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Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 14:20 - Aug 13 with 2892 views
Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 11:28 - Aug 13 by D_Alien
In terms of a discussion, have the Ogdens yet defined what they mean by sustainability, other than Project 5000, or do they have something more detailed in mind (even if not yet fully worked out) than the club being financially stable via home gates?
As you say, even with a significant rise in home gates, i'm not sure that'd be sufficient of itself, although it'd certainly go a long way. In addition, i don't see how a club (any club) can be maintained without ongoing ambition; in other words, if we make it to L1, that can't be the end of ambition. The old saying that if you merely seek to stand still, you'll end up going backwards applies
Very true that. You need ambition to increase crowds and keep the interest going. I'm not even sure that there is now as much scope to find rough diamonds and polish them up to sell on at a future date. Are there as many gems unearthed in lower league academies and are the clubs receiving their true market value? I know 'add ons' can be lucrative but it's still very much in the lap of the gods as to if you ever receive a payment. Keith Hill was the master at it, alongside Chris Dunphy and Colin Garlick. The blueprint that got us promoted to EFL1 twice.
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Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 14:37 - Aug 13 with 2842 views
Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 13:24 - Aug 13 by sxdale
Whilst the reinstatement of the academy is certainly a positive and will hopefully allow us to develop our own players and maybe sell them on, I fail to see how it can be budgeted for in much the same way as going on a good cup run and drawing a big team. It's nice but it's a bonus. I suppose you can try to play the law of averages and get the most out of a situation should it arise by clever contracts and sell on etc. Just that there's no guaranteed fixed income to budget from (in my opinion).
A cup run and or a player sale for big money are both improbable, nice when / if they happen but cannot be guaranteed and hence not part of a sustainability debate. But there are intrinsic savings in the move to Bowlee,.. the cost of hiring Platt Lane and its catering costs will be reduced significantly ( catering to be done from the COA) , less travelling to and from will also reduce costs... The solar panels have slashed energy bills at the COA, I assume they will be used at Bowlee too. The refurbished food outlets at the stadium will increase turnover and profits as crowds increase. It all adds up but the real problem lies in the EFL and its weighting of funds towards the Championship, forcing L2 and L1 to live on thinner shoestrings than are good for the game and making every step up a financial problem unless there are deep pockets involved and even then they have to be both deep and well intentioned. We are lucky that our owners see bigger pictures.....
How EFL Solidarity Payments are Split Championship (non-parachute clubs): Receive about 30% of a year-three parachute payment, roughly £5.4 million per club. League One: Receive about 4.5% of a year-three payment, roughly £800,000 per club. League Two: Receive about 3% of a year-three payment, roughly £400,000 to £470,000 per club. From AI search..regarding the latest Premiership / EFL funding debate....... "The current financial proposal centers on a £1.5 billion funding package over 10 years which the Premier League unanimously voted to approve and formally tabled to the EFL.This long-running negotiation, heavily influenced by the presence of the newly established Independent Football Regulator (IFR), includes several core elements aimed at securing financial stability across the football pyramid:Key Pillars of the £1.5 Billion ProposalAnnual EFL Distributions: An average injection of £150 million per year to EFL clubs, starting below £100 million and scaling up over the first three years. This funding is in addition to the Premier League's existing £1.6 billion triennial commitments.Funding Mechanism: The additional revenue is expected to be fully funded by an increased levy on domestic player transfers (potentially rising from 4% to 6%).Reduced Parachute Payments: The deal features a scaling down of parachute payments made to clubs relegated from the top flight to compress the financial gap. Lifeboat and Infrastructure Funds: It introduces a new £20 million "lifeboat fund" to bail out lower-league clubs facing administration, alongside ring-fenced money for stadium and facility infrastructure. The Role of the Regulator & Current Status While the Independent Football Regulator (chaired by David Kogan) is conducting a pilot phase for club licensing, it holds a legislative "backstop power". This means if the Premier League and EFL cannot reach a voluntary settlement, the regulator can step in and legally impose a broadcast revenue split.The EFL board and its 72 clubs are reviewing the proposal. However, the package has faced early internal resistance from EFL leadership, who view it as structurally similar to restrictive deals rejected in previous years"
[Post edited 13 Aug 14:48]
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Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 14:50 - Aug 13 with 2823 views
Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 14:37 - Aug 13 by 49thseason
A cup run and or a player sale for big money are both improbable, nice when / if they happen but cannot be guaranteed and hence not part of a sustainability debate. But there are intrinsic savings in the move to Bowlee,.. the cost of hiring Platt Lane and its catering costs will be reduced significantly ( catering to be done from the COA) , less travelling to and from will also reduce costs... The solar panels have slashed energy bills at the COA, I assume they will be used at Bowlee too. The refurbished food outlets at the stadium will increase turnover and profits as crowds increase. It all adds up but the real problem lies in the EFL and its weighting of funds towards the Championship, forcing L2 and L1 to live on thinner shoestrings than are good for the game and making every step up a financial problem unless there are deep pockets involved and even then they have to be both deep and well intentioned. We are lucky that our owners see bigger pictures.....
How EFL Solidarity Payments are Split Championship (non-parachute clubs): Receive about 30% of a year-three parachute payment, roughly £5.4 million per club. League One: Receive about 4.5% of a year-three payment, roughly £800,000 per club. League Two: Receive about 3% of a year-three payment, roughly £400,000 to £470,000 per club. From AI search..regarding the latest Premiership / EFL funding debate....... "The current financial proposal centers on a £1.5 billion funding package over 10 years which the Premier League unanimously voted to approve and formally tabled to the EFL.This long-running negotiation, heavily influenced by the presence of the newly established Independent Football Regulator (IFR), includes several core elements aimed at securing financial stability across the football pyramid:Key Pillars of the £1.5 Billion ProposalAnnual EFL Distributions: An average injection of £150 million per year to EFL clubs, starting below £100 million and scaling up over the first three years. This funding is in addition to the Premier League's existing £1.6 billion triennial commitments.Funding Mechanism: The additional revenue is expected to be fully funded by an increased levy on domestic player transfers (potentially rising from 4% to 6%).Reduced Parachute Payments: The deal features a scaling down of parachute payments made to clubs relegated from the top flight to compress the financial gap. Lifeboat and Infrastructure Funds: It introduces a new £20 million "lifeboat fund" to bail out lower-league clubs facing administration, alongside ring-fenced money for stadium and facility infrastructure. The Role of the Regulator & Current Status While the Independent Football Regulator (chaired by David Kogan) is conducting a pilot phase for club licensing, it holds a legislative "backstop power". This means if the Premier League and EFL cannot reach a voluntary settlement, the regulator can step in and legally impose a broadcast revenue split.The EFL board and its 72 clubs are reviewing the proposal. However, the package has faced early internal resistance from EFL leadership, who view it as structurally similar to restrictive deals rejected in previous years"
[Post edited 13 Aug 14:48]
"A cup run and or a player sale for big money are both improbable, nice when / if they happen but cannot be guaranteed and hence not part of a sustainability debate."
From Fitzo's latest book, page 137, interview with Cameron Ogden:
"‘For me, long-term sustainability rests on two pillars. One is player development. Rochdale has a history of producing talent, and if you can consistently develop and trade players well, that can be transformative for a club at this level. You only have to look at someone like our former youth player Mateus Mané, now at Wolves, to see the potential impact of that pathway. Or take Maidenhead’s sale of Max Kilman − that move eventually became a £40 million transfer to West Ham, with a significant sell-on clause attached. For a club of that size, that's game-changing money."
Maestro? No.
Elite? No.
Heavyweight poster? No.
Able to be rational and not over-react to individual results? Yes.
0
Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 14:56 - Aug 13 with 2811 views
I'm not very optimistic about this season. Injuries have already depleted the squad, there is aa new manager and aa new system in place. The defence doesn't look very secure at all and was the reason for our success for most of least season.
II think we will start very slowly and manage to finish around 20th.
There is aa brighter side to my post, last season II thought we would struggle to make the play offs
A nice mid table position of 12th after a slow start with a fair few injuries to key players. Pick up after Christmas for a decent finish for our first season in the football league. Then we push on to challenge for L1.
For me there seems to be an unnecessary amount of negativity from supporters (a bit on here but mainly other social media) that I don’t think is deserved after the season the bulk of these players gave us last time out. I’m all for realism (I’m a Dale fan after all) but most of them proved they were too good for the National League by racking up over 100 points so why can’t the majority make the step up?
And for the element of the fanbase who won’t give any manager who isn’t “Hilly” the time of day - get over it, he’s not coming back.
Anyway - 10th for me.
Anyone seen ‘Trev’? Is he off playing golf with Duffy?
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Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 18:34 - Aug 13 with 2438 views
Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 17:57 - Aug 13 by kel
For me there seems to be an unnecessary amount of negativity from supporters (a bit on here but mainly other social media) that I don’t think is deserved after the season the bulk of these players gave us last time out. I’m all for realism (I’m a Dale fan after all) but most of them proved they were too good for the National League by racking up over 100 points so why can’t the majority make the step up?
And for the element of the fanbase who won’t give any manager who isn’t “Hilly” the time of day - get over it, he’s not coming back.
Anyway - 10th for me.
Going to be interested to see how much better teams are at this level.
When you’ve Oldham fans raving about their two signings from Southend, Ryan Delaney and Donervon Daniels in defence, a forward line that’s inferior to ours and Micky Mellon as manager, yet still they’re being tipped for a promotion push, it suggests more about the standard being more of an even playing field.
It’ll be a case of wait and see, might take a few months to sort itself out and, on paper, our squad has experience, talent and potential. The combination of adjusting to the changes whilst dealing with a freakish injury situation is an understandable concern of course.
Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 18:34 - Aug 13 by 442Dale
Going to be interested to see how much better teams are at this level.
When you’ve Oldham fans raving about their two signings from Southend, Ryan Delaney and Donervon Daniels in defence, a forward line that’s inferior to ours and Micky Mellon as manager, yet still they’re being tipped for a promotion push, it suggests more about the standard being more of an even playing field.
It’ll be a case of wait and see, might take a few months to sort itself out and, on paper, our squad has experience, talent and potential. The combination of adjusting to the changes whilst dealing with a freakish injury situation is an understandable concern of course.
Personally, I think we will surprise a lot of Teams, and with the latest L1 player additions this will certainly add some experience in a good mix... I am going for possibly the last play off position and hopefully injuries will be kind to us later in the year to balance up what we have currently endured !!
Feeling positive to be honest.....
[Post edited 13 Aug 22:54]
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Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 13:25 - Aug 14 with 1908 views
Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 14:50 - Aug 13 by TVOS1907
"A cup run and or a player sale for big money are both improbable, nice when / if they happen but cannot be guaranteed and hence not part of a sustainability debate."
From Fitzo's latest book, page 137, interview with Cameron Ogden:
"‘For me, long-term sustainability rests on two pillars. One is player development. Rochdale has a history of producing talent, and if you can consistently develop and trade players well, that can be transformative for a club at this level. You only have to look at someone like our former youth player Mateus Mané, now at Wolves, to see the potential impact of that pathway. Or take Maidenhead’s sale of Max Kilman − that move eventually became a £40 million transfer to West Ham, with a significant sell-on clause attached. For a club of that size, that's game-changing money."
To be fair, Peterborough seem to,have made consistently good money from transfer wheeling and dealing, often making a million or two in sales over spending, but the turnover of players is huge and they must have contracts carefully organised to make sure they sell before contracts expire. Moving to Bowlee might make this sort of activity cheaper but I dont know how you budget for it except for maybe starting with a couple of million to bring in players initially and hope to sell them for £4m before their contracts expire.... and then do it repeatedly year in year out... the link shows how much they have maybe made and spent with details of the players involved.. the numbers are probably educated guesses so hardly totally believable ....of course getting £10m for Ivan Toney probably helped a lot too.... https://www.transfermarkt.co.u
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Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 15:58 - Aug 14 with 1800 views
Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 15:46 - Aug 14 by 49thseason
To be fair, Peterborough seem to,have made consistently good money from transfer wheeling and dealing, often making a million or two in sales over spending, but the turnover of players is huge and they must have contracts carefully organised to make sure they sell before contracts expire. Moving to Bowlee might make this sort of activity cheaper but I dont know how you budget for it except for maybe starting with a couple of million to bring in players initially and hope to sell them for £4m before their contracts expire.... and then do it repeatedly year in year out... the link shows how much they have maybe made and spent with details of the players involved.. the numbers are probably educated guesses so hardly totally believable ....of course getting £10m for Ivan Toney probably helped a lot too.... https://www.transfermarkt.co.u
We are starting from a different place 49th, having previously rented our training facility we now own it & will make considerable savings as a result. Dale have for years been known as a club that nurtures young talent while also rehabilitating “broken toys” (for want of a better phrase). I would think that we’ll have yearly open trials & also try to re establish a scouting network. It’ll take time but long term I see it bearing fruit, we are a well run operation who pay our bills (Robknotter) which will stand us in good stead going forward.
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Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 16:53 - Aug 14 with 1722 views
Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 15:46 - Aug 14 by 49thseason
To be fair, Peterborough seem to,have made consistently good money from transfer wheeling and dealing, often making a million or two in sales over spending, but the turnover of players is huge and they must have contracts carefully organised to make sure they sell before contracts expire. Moving to Bowlee might make this sort of activity cheaper but I dont know how you budget for it except for maybe starting with a couple of million to bring in players initially and hope to sell them for £4m before their contracts expire.... and then do it repeatedly year in year out... the link shows how much they have maybe made and spent with details of the players involved.. the numbers are probably educated guesses so hardly totally believable ....of course getting £10m for Ivan Toney probably helped a lot too.... https://www.transfermarkt.co.u
On the other hand....Exeter City tried to live off their Academy products for a decade (Ampadu/ Watkins /Sercombe /Grimes /Stansfield) but now the well has run dry and they're struggling financially - could even suffer a double relegation this season.
Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 16:53 - Aug 14 by tony_roch975
On the other hand....Exeter City tried to live off their Academy products for a decade (Ampadu/ Watkins /Sercombe /Grimes /Stansfield) but now the well has run dry and they're struggling financially - could even suffer a double relegation this season.
I guess thats the problem with putting all your eggs in one basket.. I have no doubt we can do more of what we did, relatively successfully, previously. Certainly we will not be easily forced to sell young players relatively cheaply simply because we need the money. I think there is merit in the idea that we should develop a scouting system, I note that there are 1200 Colleges and Universities in the US now playing " soccer" and running s9ccer scholarships and also attracting students from Mexico. It seems to be relatively simple to set up some sort of scouting system in half a dozen regional centres with a view to bringing the some of their best players to the UK for a few weeks training every Summer. Many would even pay for the opportunity, Hilton rooms tend to be cheaper in Summer and flights are not ridiculous the costs vs the possible acquisition of a couple of genuine prospects would be minimal... If we got really smart many could spend an extended period here and continue their studies online...not to mention sending our coaches over there occasionally. Its the sort of edge we need and doing it quickly reduces immitation, for a while at least....
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Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 17:50 - Aug 14 with 1611 views
Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 17:17 - Aug 14 by 49thseason
I guess thats the problem with putting all your eggs in one basket.. I have no doubt we can do more of what we did, relatively successfully, previously. Certainly we will not be easily forced to sell young players relatively cheaply simply because we need the money. I think there is merit in the idea that we should develop a scouting system, I note that there are 1200 Colleges and Universities in the US now playing " soccer" and running s9ccer scholarships and also attracting students from Mexico. It seems to be relatively simple to set up some sort of scouting system in half a dozen regional centres with a view to bringing the some of their best players to the UK for a few weeks training every Summer. Many would even pay for the opportunity, Hilton rooms tend to be cheaper in Summer and flights are not ridiculous the costs vs the possible acquisition of a couple of genuine prospects would be minimal... If we got really smart many could spend an extended period here and continue their studies online...not to mention sending our coaches over there occasionally. Its the sort of edge we need and doing it quickly reduces immitation, for a while at least....
SPO is mates with Sir Jim Ratcliffe. We can consider all options, and pleased to hear you see merit in a scouting system. There are also businesses, incuding one we're still involved with as far as i know, that do this on behalf of clubs; it's worked for us. But the connections our owners have can cast a wide net in the North West, if we're so inclined
Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 16:53 - Aug 14 by tony_roch975
On the other hand....Exeter City tried to live off their Academy products for a decade (Ampadu/ Watkins /Sercombe /Grimes /Stansfield) but now the well has run dry and they're struggling financially - could even suffer a double relegation this season.
I guess thats the problem with putting all your eggs in one basket.. I have no doubt we can do more of what we did, relatively successfully, previously. Certainly we will not be easily forced to sell young players relatively cheaply simply because we need the money. I think there is merit in the idea that we should develop a scouting system, I note that there are 1200 Colleges and Universities in the US now playing " soccer" and running soccer scholarships and also attracting students from Mexico. It would seem to be relatively simple to set up some sort of scouting system in half a dozen regional centres with a view to bringing the some , say 20, of their best players to the UK for a few weeks training every Summer. Many would even pay for the opportunity, Hilton rooms tend to be cheaper in Summer and flights are not ridiculous the costs vs the possible acquisition of a couple of genuine prospects would be minimal... If we got really smart, many could spend an extended period here and continue their studies online...not to mention sending our coaches over there occasionally. Its the sort of edge we need and doing it quickly reduces immitation, for a while at least....I think it would be worth doing some initial investigation work and perhaps a couple of trips to the US to sus out the opportunity...
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Rochdale Lg 2 Finish position - board predictions and comments on 12:19 - Aug 15 with 1163 views
Nervously awaiting kick-off (on the sofa, not at Rodney Parade) and honestly no idea where we'll finish. Consolidation should be the aim I reckon, so an optimistic 12th for me!
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