| Covid Figures Exaggerated 09:19 - Jul 19 with 19276 views | Boris_ |
Who would have thought it?
Scotland and Wales classing anyone who had Covid with in 28 days of dying as a Covid death, regardless of their actual cause of death.
In England, we are classing anyone who has ever tested positive for Covid as a covid death. So someone could have have tested positive in February and get run over by a bus today, and they will be added to the list of Covid deaths.
As I have said all along, the numbers are fabricated and exaggerated. History will show that we performed as well, if not better than most of the large European countries ( which will upset some on here )
Cancer Research UK are predicting that the lack of urgent care and referrals could contribute up to 35,000 excess deaths as well.
Heart conditions etc also contributing to excess deaths.
The truth is unraveling.
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 12:24 - Jul 19 with 1513 views | SalisburySaint |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 11:14 - Jul 19 by Boris_ |
Not at all. I think the government have done some things well ( the support for BUSINESS and employees is world leading and the rapid expansion in ICU beds was hugely impressive ).
I also think they have done some things badly. Lockdown perhaps could have been a week earlier, there were clearly issues with the care homes and communication/messaging has been very poor.
I also think that a Labour government, or Liberal Democrat or any other government would have done some things well and some things badly.
The difference between me and you is that my opinion is based on what I see in front of me and political bias does not come in to it. I have voted Labour, Lib Dem and Tory in my life.
I have been consistent from the start that you cannot compare our performance to other countries but the left wing insist on it, yet now the numbers look set to be adjusted and will drop by at least several thousand, the same people who have used the figures to bash the government with, now don't seem to want to know... funny, that. |
There was no political bias in my earlier post regards excess deaths, just presenting facts available
Yet to see how you explain these, yet all to quick to say government figures exaggerated and will be reduced |  | | |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 12:41 - Jul 19 with 1488 views | Boris_ |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 12:24 - Jul 19 by SalisburySaint |
There was no political bias in my earlier post regards excess deaths, just presenting facts available
Yet to see how you explain these, yet all to quick to say government figures exaggerated and will be reduced |
And here is a prime example of left-wing bias.
I replied to you in detail with facts yet you're asking me again and saying I am yet to explain the excess deaths?! Did you miss my reply or are you intentionally ignoring it? | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 12:56 - Jul 19 with 1470 views | SalisburySaint |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 12:41 - Jul 19 by Boris_ |
And here is a prime example of left-wing bias.
I replied to you in detail with facts yet you're asking me again and saying I am yet to explain the excess deaths?! Did you miss my reply or are you intentionally ignoring it? |
I’ve tried to use facts from a proven source the BBC without any bias, and apologise for missing your explanation.
However The cancer deaths you quoted I think you will find are predicted future deaths due to lack of treatment not ones that have occurred, you may have a point regards heart conditions, but be surprised if this covered the excess deaths that have occurred. | | | |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 14:31 - Jul 19 with 1438 views | grumpy |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 11:14 - Jul 19 by Boris_ |
Not at all. I think the government have done some things well ( the support for BUSINESS and employees is world leading and the rapid expansion in ICU beds was hugely impressive ).
I also think they have done some things badly. Lockdown perhaps could have been a week earlier, there were clearly issues with the care homes and communication/messaging has been very poor.
I also think that a Labour government, or Liberal Democrat or any other government would have done some things well and some things badly.
The difference between me and you is that my opinion is based on what I see in front of me and political bias does not come in to it. I have voted Labour, Lib Dem and Tory in my life.
I have been consistent from the start that you cannot compare our performance to other countries but the left wing insist on it, yet now the numbers look set to be adjusted and will drop by at least several thousand, the same people who have used the figures to bash the government with, now don't seem to want to know... funny, that. |
'The difference between me and you is that my opinion is based on what I see in front of me and political bias does not come in to it'
The arrogance of that statement,my opinion is right and yours wrong because you think its political bias. |  | | |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 15:41 - Jul 19 with 1421 views | Boris_ |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 12:56 - Jul 19 by SalisburySaint |
I’ve tried to use facts from a proven source the BBC without any bias, and apologise for missing your explanation.
However The cancer deaths you quoted I think you will find are predicted future deaths due to lack of treatment not ones that have occurred, you may have a point regards heart conditions, but be surprised if this covered the excess deaths that have occurred. |
I am using quotes from Cancer Research UK. I'd say they aren't going to have a political agenda. I didn't say all 35,000 have already died but I think it would be fair to assume that the number so far is at the very least 'several thousand'
Heart conditions etc and any other serious acute illnesses will be in that excess death count.
How many, we don't know. We'll find out no doubt as I am sure the government's first defence in any enquiry will be how many people died BECAUSE of Covid. I am absolutely certain that the amount of people that died because of Covid will be far far less than the published numbers. | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 15:41 - Jul 19 with 1419 views | Boris_ |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 14:31 - Jul 19 by grumpy |
'The difference between me and you is that my opinion is based on what I see in front of me and political bias does not come in to it'
The arrogance of that statement,my opinion is right and yours wrong because you think its political bias. |
Tell me some things the government have done well then? There are plenty so if you can't name at least a few of them then you have a political agenda. | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 15:56 - Jul 19 with 1408 views | Kennington |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 15:41 - Jul 19 by Boris_ |
I am using quotes from Cancer Research UK. I'd say they aren't going to have a political agenda. I didn't say all 35,000 have already died but I think it would be fair to assume that the number so far is at the very least 'several thousand'
Heart conditions etc and any other serious acute illnesses will be in that excess death count.
How many, we don't know. We'll find out no doubt as I am sure the government's first defence in any enquiry will be how many people died BECAUSE of Covid. I am absolutely certain that the amount of people that died because of Covid will be far far less than the published numbers. |
Because the government’s policy was to ship people out of hospital without testing to care homes with the aim of making sure hospitals had capacity, I’d argue that this was a fundamental error. Particularly considering that even with that policy in place, hospitals became covid centres and stopped pretty much everything else. Every death from failures to provide regular care is in my opinion a death related to the covid response and as such the government is accountable. All those people dying of cancer for example that didn’t get the care they needed because of covid should be counted. That is a government failure. I’m not sure it matters that much if the death is directly from a covid ICU scenario or it’s a cancer death from someone not getting treatment. |  |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 16:04 - Jul 19 with 1399 views | Boris_ |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 15:56 - Jul 19 by Kennington |
Because the government’s policy was to ship people out of hospital without testing to care homes with the aim of making sure hospitals had capacity, I’d argue that this was a fundamental error. Particularly considering that even with that policy in place, hospitals became covid centres and stopped pretty much everything else. Every death from failures to provide regular care is in my opinion a death related to the covid response and as such the government is accountable. All those people dying of cancer for example that didn’t get the care they needed because of covid should be counted. That is a government failure. I’m not sure it matters that much if the death is directly from a covid ICU scenario or it’s a cancer death from someone not getting treatment. |
Why are you making things up?
Urgent cancer treatments have always been there available lockdown. The issue is that people were too scared ( mainly due to the media hysterical campaign ) to go to their GP's which have resulted in 75% fewer urgent cancer cases being referred. [Post edited 19 Jul 2020 16:05]
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 16:12 - Jul 19 with 1387 views | Kennington |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 16:04 - Jul 19 by Boris_ |
Why are you making things up?
Urgent cancer treatments have always been there available lockdown. The issue is that people were too scared ( mainly due to the media hysterical campaign ) to go to their GP's which have resulted in 75% fewer urgent cancer cases being referred. [Post edited 19 Jul 2020 16:05]
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Where do you think the urgent care referrals come from? A significant volume come from routine screening like bowel, breast etc. It was those services that were suspended. | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 16:14 - Jul 19 with 1384 views | grumpy |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 16:04 - Jul 19 by Boris_ |
Why are you making things up?
Urgent cancer treatments have always been there available lockdown. The issue is that people were too scared ( mainly due to the media hysterical campaign ) to go to their GP's which have resulted in 75% fewer urgent cancer cases being referred. [Post edited 19 Jul 2020 16:05]
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https://www.gponline.com/urgent-referrals-rejected-one-three-gps-during-covid-19 | | | |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 17:52 - Jul 19 with 1350 views | Boris_ |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 16:12 - Jul 19 by Kennington |
Where do you think the urgent care referrals come from? A significant volume come from routine screening like bowel, breast etc. It was those services that were suspended. |
Urgent care referrals are from people who display symptoms and then go to their GP, which has dropped by 75%.
2,300 cancer diagnoses were being missed because people weren't going to their GP.
400 a week missed through routine screening which of course has an effect but it less than 20% of the total.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52382303
Why are you so desperate for the true death rate to be as high as possible? [Post edited 19 Jul 2020 17:53]
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 18:48 - Jul 19 with 1327 views | SalisburySaint |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 17:52 - Jul 19 by Boris_ |
Urgent care referrals are from people who display symptoms and then go to their GP, which has dropped by 75%.
2,300 cancer diagnoses were being missed because people weren't going to their GP.
400 a week missed through routine screening which of course has an effect but it less than 20% of the total.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52382303
Why are you so desperate for the true death rate to be as high as possible? [Post edited 19 Jul 2020 17:53]
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Given that excess deaths exceed 65,000
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-06-excess-deaths-uk-figures.html
And you say official deaths for COVID too high, your getting nowhere near for accounting for the over 20k additional deaths | | | |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 18:52 - Jul 19 with 1313 views | JaySaint |
could have died due to not being able to go for treatment, due the wildly inaccurate covid death reports | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 19:05 - Jul 19 with 1294 views | SalisburySaint |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 18:52 - Jul 19 by JaySaint |
could have died due to not being able to go for treatment, due the wildly inaccurate covid death reports |
The initial post on this suggested that COVID deaths given in UK were too high, yet all the evidence shows if anything they are too low.
And all we get from you and Boris are could be’s, I try to base my option on evidence, but there is little to back up your claims. | | | |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 19:28 - Jul 19 with 1283 views | Boris_ |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 19:05 - Jul 19 by SalisburySaint |
The initial post on this suggested that COVID deaths given in UK were too high, yet all the evidence shows if anything they are too low.
And all we get from you and Boris are could be’s, I try to base my option on evidence, but there is little to back up your claims. |
You appear to be going a bit senile with your political agenda driven opinion.
PHE are recording anyone who has EVER tested positive for Covid 19 as a Covid death, even if they were fully recovered at time of death and even if their death was completely unrelated such as Heart Attack or Road Accident. FACT
There has been a 75% drop in people going to their GP with cancer symptoms that would require urgent life saving intervention. This will cause excess deaths from Cancer. FACT
There has been a 60% drop in people going to A&E with acute conditions needing attention, this will include people with serious acute conditions like chest pains who will ultimately die. This will cause excess deaths. FACT
You keep on begging for more and more deaths though, so you can win an argument on a football internet forum though, you fruitcake! [Post edited 19 Jul 2020 19:29]
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 19:37 - Jul 19 with 1272 views | grumpy |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 19:28 - Jul 19 by Boris_ |
You appear to be going a bit senile with your political agenda driven opinion.
PHE are recording anyone who has EVER tested positive for Covid 19 as a Covid death, even if they were fully recovered at time of death and even if their death was completely unrelated such as Heart Attack or Road Accident. FACT
There has been a 75% drop in people going to their GP with cancer symptoms that would require urgent life saving intervention. This will cause excess deaths from Cancer. FACT
There has been a 60% drop in people going to A&E with acute conditions needing attention, this will include people with serious acute conditions like chest pains who will ultimately die. This will cause excess deaths. FACT
You keep on begging for more and more deaths though, so you can win an argument on a football internet forum though, you fruitcake! [Post edited 19 Jul 2020 19:29]
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Why do resort to calling people names if they have a different opinion to yourself?
It just shows how weak your arguments are that you have to resort to it. | | | |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 19:41 - Jul 19 with 1266 views | Boris_ |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 19:37 - Jul 19 by grumpy |
Why do resort to calling people names if they have a different opinion to yourself?
It just shows how weak your arguments are that you have to resort to it. |
Which part of what I have said isn’t true then and why? | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 19:50 - Jul 19 with 1263 views | grumpy |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 19:41 - Jul 19 by Boris_ |
Which part of what I have said isn’t true then and why? |
Well Salisbury is not senile or a fruitcake because he doesn't agree with you,for a start.
Covid 19 precipitate deaths from other causes,do you not understand that? | | | |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 20:08 - Jul 19 with 1243 views | Kennington |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 17:52 - Jul 19 by Boris_ |
Urgent care referrals are from people who display symptoms and then go to their GP, which has dropped by 75%.
2,300 cancer diagnoses were being missed because people weren't going to their GP.
400 a week missed through routine screening which of course has an effect but it less than 20% of the total.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52382303
Why are you so desperate for the true death rate to be as high as possible? [Post edited 19 Jul 2020 17:53]
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Those figures are wrong, the BBC is woefully inaccurate yet again. Let’s take the national bowel cancer screening programme shall we? Since March when it was stopped about 650,000 screens have not happened and that’s because there wasn't the capacity to process the samples or deal with the new diagnoses. Of those 650k there would be expected about 2,500-3,000 positives. I could pick for you plenty of other examples.
Plus, there will be plenty of deaths from people in the NHS system who’s treatment has been stopped or euphemistically ‘parked’ due to doctors and other clinical staff being seconded to covid activities. [Post edited 19 Jul 2020 20:10]
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 20:10 - Jul 19 with 1234 views | JaySaint |
Interesting fact (if you live in London)
Living in our (once) great capital, you are more likely to be stabbed to death than catching and dying from C19.
where is the demand for mandatory stab vests for all those inside the M25? | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 20:19 - Jul 19 with 1213 views | SalisburySaint |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 19:37 - Jul 19 by grumpy |
Why do resort to calling people names if they have a different opinion to yourself?
It just shows how weak your arguments are that you have to resort to it. |
Indeed | | | |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 21:07 - Jul 19 with 1188 views | kernow |
I believe with the demise of Dunce that Doris has picked up the Ugly Inside most reactionary, attention seeking, floppy tiddles award. | | | |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 00:21 - Jul 20 with 1158 views | DorsetIan |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 11:14 - Jul 19 by Boris_ |
Not at all. I think the government have done some things well ( the support for BUSINESS and employees is world leading and the rapid expansion in ICU beds was hugely impressive ).
I also think they have done some things badly. Lockdown perhaps could have been a week earlier, there were clearly issues with the care homes and communication/messaging has been very poor.
I also think that a Labour government, or Liberal Democrat or any other government would have done some things well and some things badly.
The difference between me and you is that my opinion is based on what I see in front of me and political bias does not come in to it. I have voted Labour, Lib Dem and Tory in my life.
I have been consistent from the start that you cannot compare our performance to other countries but the left wing insist on it, yet now the numbers look set to be adjusted and will drop by at least several thousand, the same people who have used the figures to bash the government with, now don't seem to want to know... funny, that. |
Why, if we will have to wait until an enquiry to find out exactly what happened, do you start a thread about over reported Covid deaths?
And this from a man who moans about political bores on TUI and suggests that they should be ‘nuked’.
OK, so you don’t like it that people look at the Covid numbers and assume the UK hasn’t done well. Suck it up, you big baby. That’s the prima facie position and until said enquiry explains that that’s not the case, it’s the reasonable conclusion to draw. [Post edited 20 Jul 2020 0:22]
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 08:05 - Jul 21 with 1058 views | JaySaint |
A report today that the actual C19 deaths could well be less than half of the current figure.
who would have thought, eh?
in other news, the Russia report will show that it had no bearing on the Brexit referendum. Again, imagine my surprise. What will the remainers try to blame the result on now? | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 09:04 - Jul 21 with 1032 views | Boris_ |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 08:05 - Jul 21 by JaySaint |
A report today that the actual C19 deaths could well be less than half of the current figure.
who would have thought, eh?
in other news, the Russia report will show that it had no bearing on the Brexit referendum. Again, imagine my surprise. What will the remainers try to blame the result on now? |
And another report saying that lockdown could be responsible for up to 200,000 deaths in the end...
Not a good day for the squinnying lefties. | |
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