| Murder charges? 18:36 - Jul 24 with 1429 views | Sadoldgit |
To successfully being a murder charge the prosecution has to prove intent to kill. Three youths dragged a PC behind their car for a mile and have been found guilty of manslaughter. If I dragged someone behind my car I would think that it had a good chance of killing them.
Perhaps it is time to change our system and have murder 1 and murder 2 as in the US?
There is a good chance, if you stick a knife in someone, that they will die. Many people get off in a murder charge by saying they didn’t intend to kill the person. If there is a slightly lesser charge where intent isn’t so important as the outcome, perhaps that would help put more killers away for longer and help reside knife crimes?
Manslaughter has the association of being accidental. There was nothing accidental about the death of PC Harper. |  | | |  |
| Murder charges? on 19:54 - Jul 24 with 1385 views | JaySaint |
obviously, we were not involved in the proceedings and you of all people should consider that.
however, on the face of it, this appears to be another example of UK justice failing (just too many examples of this).
They swerved the car side to side, whilst dragging him. That was intentional.
The jury had to be protected due to the pikey / gypo 'cousins' threatening them, and the accused seem to find it all quite funny.
what makes it worse, Kent Police raised the 'traveller's flag' today above their HQ. Very insensitive. but I guess, virtue signalling trumps everything else these days.
im sure you will mock my views, but I could not give a toss [Post edited 24 Jul 2020 19:58]
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| Murder charges? on 21:01 - Jul 24 with 1341 views | Sadoldgit |
I think you have missed the point I was making. | | | |
| Murder charges? on 21:10 - Jul 24 with 1337 views | 1885_SFC |
I despair at the thought of ever having to place my faith in the British jury system. What a shower of shÃt those jurors were - each and every one of them. Gutless fookers. |  |
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| Murder charges? on 06:59 - Jul 25 with 1240 views | JaySaint |
| Murder charges? on 21:01 - Jul 24 by Sadoldgit |
I think you have missed the point I was making. |
I havent | |
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| Murder charges? on 08:53 - Jul 25 with 1198 views | Sadoldgit |
| Murder charges? on 06:59 - Jul 25 by JaySaint |
I havent |
Perhaps you should read my post again and then consider your reply. I was talking about our charging system and how, to get a successful murder charge through court you have to prove intent to kill. There is a point where, to me, it is clear that your actions are going to or very likely to cause death and that is the grey area between our murder definitition and manslaughter that I think needs to be covered by a murder 2 charge (as they have in America).
If you want to have a rant about “pikeys” this isn’t the thread to do it on thanks. | | | |
| Murder charges? on 10:15 - Jul 25 with 1147 views | Ron11 |
| Murder charges? on 08:53 - Jul 25 by Sadoldgit |
Perhaps you should read my post again and then consider your reply. I was talking about our charging system and how, to get a successful murder charge through court you have to prove intent to kill. There is a point where, to me, it is clear that your actions are going to or very likely to cause death and that is the grey area between our murder definitition and manslaughter that I think needs to be covered by a murder 2 charge (as they have in America).
If you want to have a rant about “pikeys” this isn’t the thread to do it on thanks. |
Is there an appeal against the verdict being planned? | | | |
| Murder charges? on 10:38 - Jul 25 with 1134 views | Sadoldgit |
| Murder charges? on 10:15 - Jul 25 by Ron11 |
Is there an appeal against the verdict being planned? |
I don’t know? An appeal against the conviction or against the reduced charge? | | | |
| Murder charges? on 12:56 - Jul 25 with 1084 views | arfurdent |
is it not obvious that English Law no longer applies to the pikey community |  |
| And the White Knight is talking backwards
And the Red Queen's off with her head |
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| Murder charges? on 15:09 - Jul 25 with 1040 views | kingslandstand1 |
| Murder charges? on 10:38 - Jul 25 by Sadoldgit |
I don’t know? An appeal against the conviction or against the reduced charge? |
Can't the judge tell a jury that they should consider manslaughter rather that pre-meditated murder |  | | |
| Murder charges? on 15:32 - Jul 25 with 1028 views | Sadoldgit |
Ok, in America 1st degree murder is premeditated, 2nd degree is not premeditated but the accused does have intent to kill at that point. 3rd degree murder exists for those cases where a person is killed unwittingly by a person or persons carrying out a felony - that would seem to apply in this case but in America is carries a lighter sentence than the highest manslaughter sentence here.
Manslaughter here does have various degrees of seriousness and does, at the higher end of the scale, carry a life sentence.
I guess that makes sense. You can see that someone’s actions through their recklessness could cause death but without intent to actually kill.
It will be interesting to see what sentence PC Harper’s killers receive. [Post edited 25 Jul 2020 15:46]
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| Murder charges? on 16:58 - Jul 25 with 1003 views | RednWight |
| Murder charges? on 15:32 - Jul 25 by Sadoldgit |
Ok, in America 1st degree murder is premeditated, 2nd degree is not premeditated but the accused does have intent to kill at that point. 3rd degree murder exists for those cases where a person is killed unwittingly by a person or persons carrying out a felony - that would seem to apply in this case but in America is carries a lighter sentence than the highest manslaughter sentence here.
Manslaughter here does have various degrees of seriousness and does, at the higher end of the scale, carry a life sentence.
I guess that makes sense. You can see that someone’s actions through their recklessness could cause death but without intent to actually kill.
It will be interesting to see what sentence PC Harper’s killers receive. [Post edited 25 Jul 2020 15:46]
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Hopefully the judge will have the balls to hand out the maximum sentence |  |
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| Murder charges? on 18:12 - Jul 25 with 982 views | Sadoldgit |
| Murder charges? on 16:58 - Jul 25 by RednWight |
Hopefully the judge will have the balls to hand out the maximum sentence |
I don’t think that they will get a life sentence, but let’s hope that it is substantial. | | | |
| Murder charges? on 18:47 - Jul 25 with 966 views | Kennington |
The CPS aren’t idiots they probably knew it was manslaughter or nothing. Sometimes the general public need to understand these things. | |
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| Murder charges? on 15:02 - Jul 31 with 788 views | Sadoldgit |
So one of them got 16 years and 2 others 13 years and they will probably be out sooner. It doesn’t seem long enough given that the judge said it was as near murder as you could get. | | | |
| Murder charges? on 18:37 - Jul 31 with 715 views | kernow |
He's 19 years old now.
In 16 years, or whenever he's released, he'll be more than twice the nuisance and twice again as dangerous.
No doubt he'll be on a special diet in there. | | | |
| Murder charges? on 19:12 - Jul 31 with 697 views | JaySaint |
| Murder charges? on 18:37 - Jul 31 by kernow |
He's 19 years old now.
In 16 years, or whenever he's released, he'll be more than twice the nuisance and twice again as dangerous.
No doubt he'll be on a special diet in there. |
they will all probably be outside before they each reach 30 years old.
These people are just pure filth of society, who will probably visit jail again at some point | |
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| Murder charges? on 17:08 - Aug 1 with 612 views | Saintsforeverj |
Totally agree. But years of human rights legislation has resulted in this sort of prosecution. I'm sorry but it has. All common sense has gone. Everything is tied up in ticking a box or not. A lawyer would also argue that you wouldn't know beyond reasonable doubt, that their intention was to kill. But yes it's wrong.
Same with a terrorist that has the right to this and that because human rights laws. You see, human rights for some people, takes away the rights (justice) for others. [Post edited 1 Aug 2020 17:12]
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| Murder charges? on 17:59 - Aug 1 with 596 views | Sadoldgit |
For me a big part of the problem is lenient sentences and reduced sentences. Instead of giving people time off for good behaviour they should have time added on for bad behaviour if they misbehave whilst in custody.
The main offender could have been given a life sentence despite the charge being manslaughter and I don’t think 16 years is adequate. Still, he should serve every minute of those 16 years behind bars. | | | |
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