| time wasting 16:09 - Nov 13 with 2268 views | sledger |
watched newcastle yesterday and villa today surely something has to be done about the blatant cheating and time wasting going on,i as a paying fan and sky tv subscriber expect more bang for my buck,a match clock would at least mean time wasting has little point,every time the ball goes dead or out of play the clock stops who cares how long the game takes |  | | |  |
| time wasting on 16:26 - Nov 13 with 2212 views | cocklebreath |
“bang for my buck” horrible expression
But agree time wasting is a pain in the arse especially when Saints are so bad at it |  |
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| time wasting on 16:27 - Nov 13 with 2211 views | cocklebreath |
“And it’s liiiiive”
That’s even worse wac | |
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| time wasting on 17:30 - Nov 13 with 2146 views | Heisenberg |
As you say it’s easy to solve. As in rugby all the ref has to do is say time off. The ponces can waste as much time as they want but it will be added on. The other thing is fake head injuries stopping the game. If a player has a head injury then they need to go off for an assessment. As for time wasting at throw ins and goal kicks all the ref needs to do is warn the offending teams captain. If it continues then add 5 minutes on as a penalty. Fans are being cheated by the general shithousery that is modern football. |  |
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| time wasting on 18:56 - Nov 13 with 2079 views | SFC_Referee |
Someone posted about this the other day, but unfortunately in the prem the players know what they’re doing. As if we take out the extreme time wasting, then cautionings only ever occur when the winning team is doing it in a close game where the result could quite easily change, as in other games there’s no need for it hence why players never do it intentionally.
But for our more typical close game, what refs have to do is differentiate time wasting from taking their time. As there’s two main reasons why the refs don’t usually give out cards for time wasting, with one being the same as the kicking the ball away issue as too many players would get booked at the top level, and without a set time, that would lead to more controversies when those yellows turn into reds. The second reason is that players are intelligent enough to know how far they can push a ref before they’ll get cautioned, hence why many will take that set piece just a second or two before they know the ref will blow, which is why they’re soo very rarely booked as their intelligent enough to avoid them.
But at the end of the day there’s one major thing that’s done differently in the prem to the non leagues, as the prem officials are told to officiate games a bit differently to how I officiate certain non league games. As mine are about being fair and just controlling the game so that everyone’s happy, whilst prem refs are their to also make it fair, but also to not ruin/reduce the entertainment for all those watching, both in and out of the stadium.
Which is exactly why you never see players sent off for dissent in the prem, yet is occurs quite often in non leagues, why less yellows are given away for little petty things and more for the major incidents so that games don’t end as a 9V8 al the time.
As whether you agree overall about that or not is up to you, but those prem refs officiate game differently as they’re jobs to be fair but keep it entertaining, which sometimes means being less strict on certain rules and being less in the limelight for what they’ve done, which is more down to what the FA/prem tell them, rather than the refs and LOTG themselves.
But which regards to whether they should change the rules or not, there’s almost always multiple issues to all suggestions, but whether they’re still better than what it’s currently at or not is up to you, but unfortunately there’s currently no perfect option for dealing with it. |  |
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| time wasting on 19:11 - Nov 13 with 2066 views | GRIM |
| time wasting on 17:30 - Nov 13 by Heisenberg |
As you say it’s easy to solve. As in rugby all the ref has to do is say time off. The ponces can waste as much time as they want but it will be added on. The other thing is fake head injuries stopping the game. If a player has a head injury then they need to go off for an assessment. As for time wasting at throw ins and goal kicks all the ref needs to do is warn the offending teams captain. If it continues then add 5 minutes on as a penalty. Fans are being cheated by the general shithousery that is modern football. |
Yes the fake head injuries normally occur in the the last five minutes of the game, teams just trying to slow the game down & waste time.
Unless it obviously a serious injury, do as they do in Rugby, & play on, if the player is not hurt he'll soon get to his feet.
Also players don't worry about getting yellow carded now, they would if they were sin binned for 10 minutes like Rugby players are.
I know potentially it could mean two or three players in the bin at the same time but they would soon learn not to get carded.
Football could learn so much from Rugby even the back chat to referees is not tolerated in Rugby, why do footballers get away with it. | | | |
| time wasting on 19:30 - Nov 13 with 2039 views | SFC_Referee |
| time wasting on 19:11 - Nov 13 by GRIM |
Yes the fake head injuries normally occur in the the last five minutes of the game, teams just trying to slow the game down & waste time.
Unless it obviously a serious injury, do as they do in Rugby, & play on, if the player is not hurt he'll soon get to his feet.
Also players don't worry about getting yellow carded now, they would if they were sin binned for 10 minutes like Rugby players are.
I know potentially it could mean two or three players in the bin at the same time but they would soon learn not to get carded.
Football could learn so much from Rugby even the back chat to referees is not tolerated in Rugby, why do footballers get away with it. |
Because the top level rugby officials are told to ref the games just the same as they would at any other level, whilst the ones in the prem aren’t told to officiate games like I have to in the non leagues…
But your spot on with how much football could learn from it and as to how the refs let soo much dissent go, but unfortunately it doesn’t look to be changing any time soon! [Post edited 13 Nov 2022 19:31]
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| time wasting on 22:13 - Nov 13 with 1917 views | sledger |
so would a game clock stopping when the ball is not in play stop the controversy? | | | |
| time wasting on 09:44 - Nov 14 with 1764 views | ericofarabia |
Last season st SMS 3 different Newcastle players went down with so called head injuries, twice resulting in attacking phases from us being stopped, yet each time the player miraculously recovered before the trainer arrived to give treatment, meaning the player didn't need to leave the pitch.
On the 3rd incident the ref just waved play on, luckily it wasn't a genuine head injury. The ref should have booked that player, and the other 2, but of course didn't. As somebody posted above, the players know how far they can get away with it. They are obviously being given the instructions from Howe. How about a media outcry for an investigation into how often fake head injuries happen when Newcastle are holding out for a win or draw, like our so called injury break between 60 - 70 mins to get an energy drink and a rest?
Anybody who goes down with any sort of head injury should be made to go off the pitch for a proper assessment. |  | | |
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| time wasting on 19:57 - Nov 14 with 1699 views | kingslandstand1 |
| time wasting on 09:44 - Nov 14 by ericofarabia |
Last season st SMS 3 different Newcastle players went down with so called head injuries, twice resulting in attacking phases from us being stopped, yet each time the player miraculously recovered before the trainer arrived to give treatment, meaning the player didn't need to leave the pitch.
On the 3rd incident the ref just waved play on, luckily it wasn't a genuine head injury. The ref should have booked that player, and the other 2, but of course didn't. As somebody posted above, the players know how far they can get away with it. They are obviously being given the instructions from Howe. How about a media outcry for an investigation into how often fake head injuries happen when Newcastle are holding out for a win or draw, like our so called injury break between 60 - 70 mins to get an energy drink and a rest?
Anybody who goes down with any sort of head injury should be made to go off the pitch for a proper assessment. |
Trouble is though Eric, Newcastle and Howe are the current media love in club etc so that is not likely to happen despite the way they have got their wealth, well who their benefactors are |  | | |
| time wasting on 21:37 - Nov 14 with 1676 views | SFC_Referee |
| time wasting on 09:44 - Nov 14 by ericofarabia |
Last season st SMS 3 different Newcastle players went down with so called head injuries, twice resulting in attacking phases from us being stopped, yet each time the player miraculously recovered before the trainer arrived to give treatment, meaning the player didn't need to leave the pitch.
On the 3rd incident the ref just waved play on, luckily it wasn't a genuine head injury. The ref should have booked that player, and the other 2, but of course didn't. As somebody posted above, the players know how far they can get away with it. They are obviously being given the instructions from Howe. How about a media outcry for an investigation into how often fake head injuries happen when Newcastle are holding out for a win or draw, like our so called injury break between 60 - 70 mins to get an energy drink and a rest?
Anybody who goes down with any sort of head injury should be made to go off the pitch for a proper assessment. |
But the thing is it’s not just Newcastle…
As yeah they might be doing it a fair but right now, but many others are also doing it, have been in the past and will be in the future. So it is a bit unfair just to highlight them.
And us refs can’t just start booking players for going down with injuries, otherwise it would just lead to more controversies as well as some players being unfairly booked for genuine injuries, as it’s very hard to tell of how genuine one can be unless somethings in the wrong place or there’s blood, and it’s not until the play isn’t halted that you can usually tell if it was proper or not.
But I do agree that more should be done around it and that the media could maybe be a bit more critical of the fake ones. I for insurance think that any players who go down needing play to have halted, should be removed from the game for at least like 2-4 minutes or so. As anyone who’s genuinely injured will actually need that time to be treated and it can then happen off the pitch, with any major ones causing a sub to occur anyway. And anyone who’s gone down easily just to time waste is now leaving his team as 1 less than they previously were, so less would go down with injuries when they don’t need to.
But unfortunately until something is brought in to counteract these fake injury issues, then in the meantime we’ll be stuck with the same situations. | |
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| time wasting on 09:59 - Nov 15 with 1602 views | saint901 |
The game at PL level and at park level is exactly the same. There is no reason why refs should be taking a different approach.
Take kicking the ball away. I guarantee that should the refs tell the clubs that yellows will be given for this and that results in a red or players picking up enough yellows to serve a suspension, it will stop overnight. Most managers would be apoplectic with their players if this was to happen and would stop it.
Take fake head injuries. If a player goes down with a "head injury" then a concussion protocol is invoked and that player is off until either an independent assessment is done by a neutral doc or 10 minutes, whichever is the longer. No temporary sub allowed.
So in a tight game, losing a player for 10 minutes or more would be more of an incentive not to cheat.
Take time wasting. Make a rule that keepers (the main offenders) have 30 sec to take a goal kick. Clock to start when the ball is available to them. Timed by the fourth official. Failing to take the kick in time = loss of possession and indirect free kick to opposition say 30m out. I guarantee that we'd see perhaps half a dozen such free kicks in the first few games and then none.
Take time wasting generally. Each PL team is meant to play 3,420 minutes of time a season. Let's say 40% of that is their possession= 1,368 minutes. That is a base line. So the measure at say 32 games is 1,152 minutes.
If the stats says that they have had the ball in play for less than that = points deduction and/or their share of the prize fund is reduced.
Again, it would stop overnight.
None of the above involve the ref changing how they ref the game. | | | |
| time wasting on 15:20 - Nov 15 with 1504 views | sledger |
so a game clock that stopped when the ball is not in play and as per rugby trainers go on game continues on as normal actually sorts all the above. | | | |
| time wasting on 15:54 - Nov 15 with 1497 views | SFC_Referee |
| time wasting on 09:59 - Nov 15 by saint901 |
The game at PL level and at park level is exactly the same. There is no reason why refs should be taking a different approach.
Take kicking the ball away. I guarantee that should the refs tell the clubs that yellows will be given for this and that results in a red or players picking up enough yellows to serve a suspension, it will stop overnight. Most managers would be apoplectic with their players if this was to happen and would stop it.
Take fake head injuries. If a player goes down with a "head injury" then a concussion protocol is invoked and that player is off until either an independent assessment is done by a neutral doc or 10 minutes, whichever is the longer. No temporary sub allowed.
So in a tight game, losing a player for 10 minutes or more would be more of an incentive not to cheat.
Take time wasting. Make a rule that keepers (the main offenders) have 30 sec to take a goal kick. Clock to start when the ball is available to them. Timed by the fourth official. Failing to take the kick in time = loss of possession and indirect free kick to opposition say 30m out. I guarantee that we'd see perhaps half a dozen such free kicks in the first few games and then none.
Take time wasting generally. Each PL team is meant to play 3,420 minutes of time a season. Let's say 40% of that is their possession= 1,368 minutes. That is a base line. So the measure at say 32 games is 1,152 minutes.
If the stats says that they have had the ball in play for less than that = points deduction and/or their share of the prize fund is reduced.
Again, it would stop overnight.
None of the above involve the ref changing how they ref the game. |
In all fairness I can tell you from first hand experience myself, that the Sunday leagues that some of the lads on here may participate in, is certainly very different to the national leagues/high non leagues and such that very few do take part in and I officiate in.
As in those pub leagues, at least a third of the time, the games ends with a difference of like 6 or so goals, whilst in the non leagues you’ll get a max of 2/3 of them a season. And also in the pub leagues people don’t expect yellows and such for certain things whilst they do in the higher ones.
So I don’t know about park to pro football, but for non league to prem football, I do agree they should be treated the same, but due to what the PL officials are told to do/informed to do, so that they can keep their jobs in the highest devising and get into UEFA, FIFA etc, they’ve gotta do what they’re told (and it’s basically the same in many other counties).
And as much as I agree with many of your suggestions, there are a few that just wouldn’t work and it would change the way that officials would have to ref the game and would also make it a lot more complex and controversial.
As your points about kicking the ball away, I do get of why you think that they should be harsher on them, but then if your gonna start booking them for just a little 1m tap on the ball, then you’ve also gotta start booking players for being in the way at a quick free kick, or just taking their time to move outta the way as well as much more etc… as when it comes down to kicking the balls away, in all fairness they are onto them quite often and it’s not too major of an issue (or at least not as much as other things you’ve mentioned).
The fake head injuries (or for me, injuries in general), I agree that they should be off for a set time if plays halted due to the injury, as that would work and there wouldn’t be any counteracts to it, and can easily be done at all levels.
The goal kicks is an iffy one, as firstly 30 seconds is too long anyway, and it would always have to be from when the balls give to them, so would more likely need to be like 15. But you get a few issues there on the fact of what happens for the games without 4th officials? As they only start at national league level, yet you’ve got a fair few levels and rounds of the FA Cup before they get involved. And even if there was, all it would do is mean that keepers would start counting and therefore playing the ball at 29/14 seconds so that they take as long as they can, which would also lead to controversy for when a ref blows too early or doesn’t blow when they took too long (which would occur often if that rule was to be made).
And also some games you don’t need to book or cause incidents for players taking their time as nether side may be bothered by it (so like a 5-0 scoreline for 80 minutes gone in a cup game), yet this rule being soo factual would have to be followed. And something like that would just end up like the current 6 second rule that nobody listens to, hence why you can’t really give numbers as it won’t solve anything.
And with your in general situation of punishing teams have that have it outta play too long, what happens when a teams just had many severe injuries/incidents in their games? Or many free kicks are given in their games etc leading to lots of time with the ball out of play?
As you can’t afford to give points deductions which could be the difference between Europe/titles/relegation etc as it would cause too many issues which isn’t what rules are made for.
As yeah they do need to sort out the issues of time wasting and injures, and you do have some fair points in there, but you gotta keep in mind that rules aren’t created to cause controversy, but simply make the game fair. And a few of your suggestions just wouldn’t work, whilst others I completely agree with and kinda wonder as to why they’re not already in place. | |
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| time wasting on 16:00 - Nov 15 with 1495 views | SFC_Referee |
| time wasting on 15:20 - Nov 15 by sledger |
so a game clock that stopped when the ball is not in play and as per rugby trainers go on game continues on as normal actually sorts all the above. |
Only issue there though is who’s job is it to do that? As the refs already got enough to do, and you don’t have 4th officials at all levels of the game, so what do you do around that issue? | |
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| time wasting on 16:44 - Nov 15 with 1480 views | USA_Saint |
How about....
If a player goes down injured and the game has to stop.
1/ His team has to all go to the centre circle. The other team can go to the sideline to talk to the manager
2/ He has to leave the pitch and is not allowed back on until his team has their next goal kick or kick off (so his team are down to 10 until other team has a shot or score a goal).
Exceptions:
He can be subbed and his team have a full 11 as usual (has to be him that goes off)
He is down injured due a tackle deemed worthy of a yellow or red card
This would stop a lot of the fake stuff that is getting out of hand nowadays. You're either injured - or you ain't. I bet you'd see way, way less teams beckoning the other team to kick the ball out of play cos someone is laying down. That is for sure. |  | | |
| time wasting on 17:35 - Nov 15 with 1453 views | saint901 |
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
One very key thing that would immediately help is if the ref in a professional game was required to hold a press conference, more than 24 but less than 72 hours after a match, to explain some of his decisions.
This can be via PGMOL or some other umbrella operation if required.
Look at US Sports. On field refs/umpires are talking to the crowd all the time and explaining. Football refs NEVER do that. | | | |
| time wasting on 18:26 - Nov 15 with 1434 views | cocklebreath |
| time wasting on 15:54 - Nov 15 by SFC_Referee |
In all fairness I can tell you from first hand experience myself, that the Sunday leagues that some of the lads on here may participate in, is certainly very different to the national leagues/high non leagues and such that very few do take part in and I officiate in.
As in those pub leagues, at least a third of the time, the games ends with a difference of like 6 or so goals, whilst in the non leagues you’ll get a max of 2/3 of them a season. And also in the pub leagues people don’t expect yellows and such for certain things whilst they do in the higher ones.
So I don’t know about park to pro football, but for non league to prem football, I do agree they should be treated the same, but due to what the PL officials are told to do/informed to do, so that they can keep their jobs in the highest devising and get into UEFA, FIFA etc, they’ve gotta do what they’re told (and it’s basically the same in many other counties).
And as much as I agree with many of your suggestions, there are a few that just wouldn’t work and it would change the way that officials would have to ref the game and would also make it a lot more complex and controversial.
As your points about kicking the ball away, I do get of why you think that they should be harsher on them, but then if your gonna start booking them for just a little 1m tap on the ball, then you’ve also gotta start booking players for being in the way at a quick free kick, or just taking their time to move outta the way as well as much more etc… as when it comes down to kicking the balls away, in all fairness they are onto them quite often and it’s not too major of an issue (or at least not as much as other things you’ve mentioned).
The fake head injuries (or for me, injuries in general), I agree that they should be off for a set time if plays halted due to the injury, as that would work and there wouldn’t be any counteracts to it, and can easily be done at all levels.
The goal kicks is an iffy one, as firstly 30 seconds is too long anyway, and it would always have to be from when the balls give to them, so would more likely need to be like 15. But you get a few issues there on the fact of what happens for the games without 4th officials? As they only start at national league level, yet you’ve got a fair few levels and rounds of the FA Cup before they get involved. And even if there was, all it would do is mean that keepers would start counting and therefore playing the ball at 29/14 seconds so that they take as long as they can, which would also lead to controversy for when a ref blows too early or doesn’t blow when they took too long (which would occur often if that rule was to be made).
And also some games you don’t need to book or cause incidents for players taking their time as nether side may be bothered by it (so like a 5-0 scoreline for 80 minutes gone in a cup game), yet this rule being soo factual would have to be followed. And something like that would just end up like the current 6 second rule that nobody listens to, hence why you can’t really give numbers as it won’t solve anything.
And with your in general situation of punishing teams have that have it outta play too long, what happens when a teams just had many severe injuries/incidents in their games? Or many free kicks are given in their games etc leading to lots of time with the ball out of play?
As you can’t afford to give points deductions which could be the difference between Europe/titles/relegation etc as it would cause too many issues which isn’t what rules are made for.
As yeah they do need to sort out the issues of time wasting and injures, and you do have some fair points in there, but you gotta keep in mind that rules aren’t created to cause controversy, but simply make the game fair. And a few of your suggestions just wouldn’t work, whilst others I completely agree with and kinda wonder as to why they’re not already in place. |
I might read this later to cure my insomnia | |
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| time wasting on 19:14 - Nov 15 with 1417 views | SFC_Referee |
| time wasting on 17:35 - Nov 15 by saint901 |
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
One very key thing that would immediately help is if the ref in a professional game was required to hold a press conference, more than 24 but less than 72 hours after a match, to explain some of his decisions.
This can be via PGMOL or some other umbrella operation if required.
Look at US Sports. On field refs/umpires are talking to the crowd all the time and explaining. Football refs NEVER do that. |
I personally am in the middle for that…
As it’s got it’s pros and cons, but I think it could lead to more issues than it might solve. And btw refs only haven’t done it before as they’re not allowed to be interviewed or such (and can get into major trouble if they do) and for in game situations, they will with coaches and players but not with fans as only the coaches and players can hear them, as the crowds are always soo loud. Whilst at your tennis games with the umpires and such, everyone’s very quiet and they’ve got speakers meaning that they can tell the crowd, and are also allowed to be whoever’s in charge of all of them.
But with regards to the post game interviews, I find there’s a few issues like how if a refs messed up or made a blatant mistake, then a press conference isn’t going to change the past or make a fairer outcome to that game. It’ll also lead to more controversy around what refs say, as if one says something and then another says the opposite, what happens there? And for some situations (so the debatable ones), the ref will most likely just standby what they gave, meaning that these interviews won’t gain anyone anything.
And a fear for myself if I was ever to have it is of what what they’ll be saying can then be used against them by the media, coaches, players etc… which will just make what’s already a very hard job for the officials, even more harder.
But there are also a few pros to it, like how it’ll help fans to understand the LOTG a lot better and see the perspective of the ref for situations, so that they might get why a decision was given, and be less confused around it. Another thing is that maybe it would help to raise awareness for the levels of abuse officials might get and help to improve the levels that some get in grassroots, as well as attracting more people to become officials.
But personally I’m in the middle, but it’s the fear of how the media and people will use what the offices say against them, which is why I don’t think they should happen. But still what’s your opinions on them, do you want them or not, if so then can I ask why? [Post edited 15 Nov 2022 19:20]
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| time wasting on 19:18 - Nov 15 with 1414 views | sledger |
| time wasting on 16:00 - Nov 15 by SFC_Referee |
Only issue there though is who’s job is it to do that? As the refs already got enough to do, and you don’t have 4th officials at all levels of the game, so what do you do around that issue? |
it obviously only works in the pro game which is what i thought we were talking about,cheating players robbing fans of game time they have paid to watch or not watch in this case | | | |
| time wasting on 19:29 - Nov 15 with 1407 views | SFC_Referee |
| time wasting on 19:18 - Nov 15 by sledger |
it obviously only works in the pro game which is what i thought we were talking about,cheating players robbing fans of game time they have paid to watch or not watch in this case |
I mean fans do also pay to watch games from pretty much Wessex league (so levels 9 and 10 on the English footballing league ladder) onwards, and you can’t really have rules that important and central for just one or two divisions.
As the only two differences between most lower leagues and the prem are sin bins and VAR, both of which have alternatives that don’t majorly affect games seeing how ones there to simply deal with dissent (and may even be used in the prem soon enough), whilst the other is only used to check and correct decisions, but isn’t actually needed for the average game.
And with this stop watch rule, teams would still take more time between stoppages as they’d still have enough time to get that last minute equaliser or winner, so a player going down can allow them to get that drinks brake or quick chat with the teammates that they need, without wasting any of that time that they need. This would lead to the ball being outta play just as much, it’s just the game would become more static and more like that rubbish American football with how big breaks in play could be for them and their stop watch clocks.
As unfortunately there’s pros and cons to almost all the rule suggestions on here (bar the injury one), hence why non have been introduced yet. [Post edited 15 Nov 2022 19:30]
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| time wasting on 20:58 - Nov 15 with 1372 views | sledger |
| time wasting on 19:29 - Nov 15 by SFC_Referee |
I mean fans do also pay to watch games from pretty much Wessex league (so levels 9 and 10 on the English footballing league ladder) onwards, and you can’t really have rules that important and central for just one or two divisions.
As the only two differences between most lower leagues and the prem are sin bins and VAR, both of which have alternatives that don’t majorly affect games seeing how ones there to simply deal with dissent (and may even be used in the prem soon enough), whilst the other is only used to check and correct decisions, but isn’t actually needed for the average game.
And with this stop watch rule, teams would still take more time between stoppages as they’d still have enough time to get that last minute equaliser or winner, so a player going down can allow them to get that drinks brake or quick chat with the teammates that they need, without wasting any of that time that they need. This would lead to the ball being outta play just as much, it’s just the game would become more static and more like that rubbish American football with how big breaks in play could be for them and their stop watch clocks.
As unfortunately there’s pros and cons to almost all the rule suggestions on here (bar the injury one), hence why non have been introduced yet. [Post edited 15 Nov 2022 19:30]
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how would it become more static,you would still card people for timewasting,treat injuries as game continues (think you will find most injuries requiring treatment would disappear) and bottom line 90 minutes will be played.American football might be stop start but at least the ball is in play for the full game.Something needs to be done because im watching live and tv games and what i see at the end of games is truly pathetic | | | |
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