| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. 20:14 - Feb 19 with 16313 views | exiledclaseboy |
F*ck me get on with it. Everyone knows you're going to come out with something fairly meaningless that you'll hail as a triumph before your Cabinet members start scratching each other's eyes out from now until all eternity. [Post edited 19 Feb 2016 20:22]
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:03 - Feb 20 with 965 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 15:59 - Feb 20 by monmouth |
Such a shame they didn't vote 'yes' last time. |
It may have been the first time a country would have been completely bankrupt before it even started.
Sterling? Yeah - bugger off Nicola. |  | | |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:05 - Feb 20 with 963 views | blueytheblue |
So Sturgeon wants independence from the UK but integration with EU. I suppose there's some logic there if you look really really closely.
It's pretty obvious what's just gone on. I doubt Cameron really wants to stay in but it's all a show. Go in there looking for a deal, the watered down deal makes the out campaigns point perfectly well within the PM having to explicitly state he wants out.
It's absolutely farcical anyone in the UK should get child benefit when their kids reside elsewhere.
The EU should revert to what it was always intended to be, a trading market not some socialist experiment aimed at farcically integrating many disparate peoples into one common mass. | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:08 - Feb 20 with 958 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:00 - Feb 20 by londonlisa2001 |
I'm a bit like you. Always a yes vote until now really. I now think it may be quite a good laugh to vote no. In all seriousness, I've genuinely been put off by Cameron's moronic 'renegotiation' but then I can't stand the little Englanders. |
I'm genuinely undecided. I'm instinctively in favour of European integration and co-operation but I have major issues with an institution that removes elected national governments and replaces them with unelected bureaucrats seemingly at will and with impunity. I'd vote to leave on that basis only but them I look at the leaders of the "out" campaign (Gove, IDS, Villiers, probably Boris, Galloway ffs) and think again. I also read the Dailys Mail and Telegraph today and can envisage no circumstances where I can bring myself to vote in the way they're telling me to. | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:11 - Feb 20 with 953 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:05 - Feb 20 by blueytheblue |
So Sturgeon wants independence from the UK but integration with EU. I suppose there's some logic there if you look really really closely.
It's pretty obvious what's just gone on. I doubt Cameron really wants to stay in but it's all a show. Go in there looking for a deal, the watered down deal makes the out campaigns point perfectly well within the PM having to explicitly state he wants out.
It's absolutely farcical anyone in the UK should get child benefit when their kids reside elsewhere.
The EU should revert to what it was always intended to be, a trading market not some socialist experiment aimed at farcically integrating many disparate peoples into one common mass. |
I don't agree about Cameron. He's pro -EU and if he wasn't it would have been far easier for him politically to campaign to leave. As it is now, if he "loses" the vote in June he's finished. Gove and Boris know that too which is why they're positioning themselves at the forefront of the campaign to leave. | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:15 - Feb 20 with 941 views | blueytheblue |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:11 - Feb 20 by exiledclaseboy |
I don't agree about Cameron. He's pro -EU and if he wasn't it would have been far easier for him politically to campaign to leave. As it is now, if he "loses" the vote in June he's finished. Gove and Boris know that too which is why they're positioning themselves at the forefront of the campaign to leave. |
Cameron won't serve a full term anyway. If Gove and Boris fight it out to leave ( read; be next Tory leader ) well, I see it as a more seamless transition between leaders than the usual infighting. | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:23 - Feb 20 with 925 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:08 - Feb 20 by exiledclaseboy |
I'm genuinely undecided. I'm instinctively in favour of European integration and co-operation but I have major issues with an institution that removes elected national governments and replaces them with unelected bureaucrats seemingly at will and with impunity. I'd vote to leave on that basis only but them I look at the leaders of the "out" campaign (Gove, IDS, Villiers, probably Boris, Galloway ffs) and think again. I also read the Dailys Mail and Telegraph today and can envisage no circumstances where I can bring myself to vote in the way they're telling me to. |
It's a very difficult decision.
I am genuinely undecided as well.
I look at our advantages as a nation - time zone, language, commonwealth links, financial institutions and none of them are impacted by an exit. I then wonder whether the EU states will genuinely stop trading with us and I can only see 'no' being the answer given the size of the UK market. I also then wonder if being a cheap place for BMW to make cars is what we should be aiming for.
The genuinely big markets for the next generation are India and China. Will they want French goods not British goods if we leave? No. What is it we could genuinely build wealth on other than financial markets? Well our ability to manufacture goods of an exceptional quality and our creative industries. We should be basing our output on quality and creativity not price as we can never compete with other countries who are cheaper than us, both in Europe and worldwide.
I also look at the increasingly global economy and wonder whether the EU really matters or is just another level of expensive bureaucracy. I also look at the imposition of rules that we seem to adopt without question whereas the rest of the EU doesn't bother. I wonder if we are just being taken for mugs.
Finally I ask myself whether the UK or the rest of the EU would be most alarmed by a no vote, and I think it's the rest of the EU, which means they gain more from us than we do from them.
The opposing view to that - I genuinely see myself as a European and as part of the European cultural tradition. I also can't bear the small minded bigots who just dislike foreigners.
Don't know. | | | |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:24 - Feb 20 with 925 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:15 - Feb 20 by blueytheblue |
Cameron won't serve a full term anyway. If Gove and Boris fight it out to leave ( read; be next Tory leader ) well, I see it as a more seamless transition between leaders than the usual infighting. |
He's pledged to serve a full term, just not to fight the next election as leader. | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:29 - Feb 20 with 916 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:24 - Feb 20 by exiledclaseboy |
He's pledged to serve a full term, just not to fight the next election as leader. |
Increasingly apparent to me the timing revolves around him sending his boy to Eton.
The position adopted by Theresa May is interesting - always anti, now decided she's in favour (of staying in I mean). A party leadership gamble if ever there was one. If we vote to stay in, she's perfectly positioned with her rivals being undermined with the exception of Osbourne and he's going to be pretty unpopular to many as a choice. | | | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:31 - Feb 20 with 909 views | monmouth |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:23 - Feb 20 by londonlisa2001 |
It's a very difficult decision.
I am genuinely undecided as well.
I look at our advantages as a nation - time zone, language, commonwealth links, financial institutions and none of them are impacted by an exit. I then wonder whether the EU states will genuinely stop trading with us and I can only see 'no' being the answer given the size of the UK market. I also then wonder if being a cheap place for BMW to make cars is what we should be aiming for.
The genuinely big markets for the next generation are India and China. Will they want French goods not British goods if we leave? No. What is it we could genuinely build wealth on other than financial markets? Well our ability to manufacture goods of an exceptional quality and our creative industries. We should be basing our output on quality and creativity not price as we can never compete with other countries who are cheaper than us, both in Europe and worldwide.
I also look at the increasingly global economy and wonder whether the EU really matters or is just another level of expensive bureaucracy. I also look at the imposition of rules that we seem to adopt without question whereas the rest of the EU doesn't bother. I wonder if we are just being taken for mugs.
Finally I ask myself whether the UK or the rest of the EU would be most alarmed by a no vote, and I think it's the rest of the EU, which means they gain more from us than we do from them.
The opposing view to that - I genuinely see myself as a European and as part of the European cultural tradition. I also can't bear the small minded bigots who just dislike foreigners.
Don't know. |
:) I think from reading that maybe you do. |  |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:32 - Feb 20 with 907 views | sherpajacob |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:24 - Feb 20 by exiledclaseboy |
He's pledged to serve a full term, just not to fight the next election as leader. |
A Tory prime ministers pledge is worth ......... |  |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:33 - Feb 20 with 902 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:29 - Feb 20 by londonlisa2001 |
Increasingly apparent to me the timing revolves around him sending his boy to Eton.
The position adopted by Theresa May is interesting - always anti, now decided she's in favour (of staying in I mean). A party leadership gamble if ever there was one. If we vote to stay in, she's perfectly positioned with her rivals being undermined with the exception of Osbourne and he's going to be pretty unpopular to many as a choice. |
Thought much the same earlier. For any future Tory leader (and next PM essentially) it's now just a gamble as to which side to take. May's playing the longer game, banking on a "stay" vote so she's in pole position come 2020. Gove and (probably) Boris have gone the other way. One of them could be PM by July. Scary. | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:34 - Feb 20 with 901 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:32 - Feb 20 by sherpajacob |
A Tory prime ministers pledge is worth ......... |
Two in the bush? | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:41 - Feb 20 with 894 views | monmouth |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:33 - Feb 20 by exiledclaseboy |
Thought much the same earlier. For any future Tory leader (and next PM essentially) it's now just a gamble as to which side to take. May's playing the longer game, banking on a "stay" vote so she's in pole position come 2020. Gove and (probably) Boris have gone the other way. One of them could be PM by July. Scary. |
Not that scary. After all, it's Nightmare on Friday 13th now. Just hope that the bigger the nutter surely the more chance of people waking up? let Gove or Johnso dribble over the screen enough for all the poisons to hatch out. Neither will be able to lie in the accomplished way that CMD and Gideon have managed in my view, although both will give it a good go. I just think the veneers will wear off from both on the real high wire. Then again, the TV drugged masses will probably swallow it all. | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:45 - Feb 20 with 889 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:41 - Feb 20 by monmouth |
Not that scary. After all, it's Nightmare on Friday 13th now. Just hope that the bigger the nutter surely the more chance of people waking up? let Gove or Johnso dribble over the screen enough for all the poisons to hatch out. Neither will be able to lie in the accomplished way that CMD and Gideon have managed in my view, although both will give it a good go. I just think the veneers will wear off from both on the real high wire. Then again, the TV drugged masses will probably swallow it all. |
But you have to consider what's available on the other side as an alternative. And our f*cked up electoral system and the upcoming changes designed to solidly the Tories' power base for years to come. | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:47 - Feb 20 with 885 views | Jack_Kass |
So does the government collapse if we vote to leave?
It's far more than a vote to leave the EU, when you think of the ramifications in regards to our own domestic political scene.
I would hate to be a rabid, anti-Tory leftie come June 23rd. Vote to stay and keep Cameron or vote to leave and witness the capitulation of the Conservatives. Whichever way they vote is going to eat them up from the inside. Marvellous. | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:48 - Feb 20 with 883 views | monmouth |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:45 - Feb 20 by exiledclaseboy |
But you have to consider what's available on the other side as an alternative. And our f*cked up electoral system and the upcoming changes designed to solidly the Tories' power base for years to come. |
I console myself with the fact that I might be dead soon. | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:52 - Feb 20 with 871 views | blueytheblue |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:45 - Feb 20 by exiledclaseboy |
But you have to consider what's available on the other side as an alternative. And our f*cked up electoral system and the upcoming changes designed to solidly the Tories' power base for years to come. |
I'd suggest the inevitable Labour infighting will aid the Tories more tbh. | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:52 - Feb 20 with 870 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:47 - Feb 20 by Jack_Kass |
So does the government collapse if we vote to leave?
It's far more than a vote to leave the EU, when you think of the ramifications in regards to our own domestic political scene.
I would hate to be a rabid, anti-Tory leftie come June 23rd. Vote to stay and keep Cameron or vote to leave and witness the capitulation of the Conservatives. Whichever way they vote is going to eat them up from the inside. Marvellous. |
The government won't collapse but Cameron would have to quit and if the Tories do implode spectacularly it could in theory lead to an early election I suppose.
It's going to be entertaining that's for sure. | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:57 - Feb 20 with 864 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:31 - Feb 20 by monmouth |
:) I think from reading that maybe you do. |
I think it's because you underestimate the depth of my loathing for the fruit loop UKIPers.
It honestly may well be enough of an argument for me that they will be royally screwed if we stay in.
As most I suspect, I am hugely irritated that Cameron hasn't done enough to make it possible to happily vote against the bigoted morons without genuine concern. | | | |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:58 - Feb 20 with 863 views | blueytheblue |
Don't see that Cameron would necessarily have to quit.
If he did, I'd suggest a change in leader should be subject to a general election given the Blair/Brown fiasco. | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:58 - Feb 20 with 863 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:57 - Feb 20 by londonlisa2001 |
I think it's because you underestimate the depth of my loathing for the fruit loop UKIPers.
It honestly may well be enough of an argument for me that they will be royally screwed if we stay in.
As most I suspect, I am hugely irritated that Cameron hasn't done enough to make it possible to happily vote against the bigoted morons without genuine concern. |
UKIP are finished after June anyway surely, regardless of the result. The one issue they have would have been lanced for at least a generation. | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:59 - Feb 20 with 862 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:52 - Feb 20 by blueytheblue |
I'd suggest the inevitable Labour infighting will aid the Tories more tbh. |
Hence my first sentence. | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:59 - Feb 20 with 857 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:47 - Feb 20 by Jack_Kass |
So does the government collapse if we vote to leave?
It's far more than a vote to leave the EU, when you think of the ramifications in regards to our own domestic political scene.
I would hate to be a rabid, anti-Tory leftie come June 23rd. Vote to stay and keep Cameron or vote to leave and witness the capitulation of the Conservatives. Whichever way they vote is going to eat them up from the inside. Marvellous. |
If we vote to leave it doesn't nothing to help the Labour Party either who are far more pro European than the Tories on the face of it, but I suspect it masks genuine divisions there as well | | | |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 17:01 - Feb 20 with 855 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:58 - Feb 20 by blueytheblue |
Don't see that Cameron would necessarily have to quit.
If he did, I'd suggest a change in leader should be subject to a general election given the Blair/Brown fiasco. |
He wouldn't have to constitutionally but I'd imagine his authority would be shot both within his own party and consequently in Parliament.
I don't agree with the second bit. A new election is not necessary given that PM isn't an elected position. But we've disagreed on that before. | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 17:03 - Feb 20 with 853 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:58 - Feb 20 by exiledclaseboy |
UKIP are finished after June anyway surely, regardless of the result. The one issue they have would have been lanced for at least a generation. |
Unfortunately I don't think they will be. They'll either position themselves as the party most in touch with the people (if out) or as the voice of the probably large minority (if in). | | | |
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