| So much for Vaccines. 12:41 - Sep 7 with 6421 views | A_Fans_Dad |
This is what happens when the creators and manufacturers get it wrong.
https://apnews.com/619efb65b9e
Sudanese kids being given polio by the very vaccine that is supposed to protect them.
It appears the Gates foundation is involved.
Who would trust their COVID-19 vaccine? |  | | |  |
| So much for Vaccines. on 17:16 - Sep 9 with 1214 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| So much for Vaccines. on 16:30 - Sep 9 by Scotia |
I'm just happy you've finally admitted HCQ is ineffective. |
I have not.
Or Ivermectin.
Or Steroids.
Or Bromhexine.
Or lopinavir/ritonavir/ribavirin even though the Oxford study says the first don't work.
Or Chlorine Dioxide, but only 1 study.
Or Favipiravir, but only Chinese studies.
Or Nitric Oxide, but still awaiting study results.
Or Heparin and other anti-coagulants.
Or Zinc | | | |
| So much for Vaccines. on 17:29 - Sep 9 with 1201 views | Scotia |
| So much for Vaccines. on 17:16 - Sep 9 by A_Fans_Dad |
I have not.
Or Ivermectin.
Or Steroids.
Or Bromhexine.
Or lopinavir/ritonavir/ribavirin even though the Oxford study says the first don't work.
Or Chlorine Dioxide, but only 1 study.
Or Favipiravir, but only Chinese studies.
Or Nitric Oxide, but still awaiting study results.
Or Heparin and other anti-coagulants.
Or Zinc |
"note that this study was conducted a few months ago when hydroxychloroquine has not yet been proven as ineffective for Covid-19, the study authors admitted."
Oh dear. Not reading articles again AFD? | | | |
| So much for Vaccines. on 18:03 - Sep 9 with 1180 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| So much for Vaccines. on 17:29 - Sep 9 by Scotia |
"note that this study was conducted a few months ago when hydroxychloroquine has not yet been proven as ineffective for Covid-19, the study authors admitted."
Oh dear. Not reading articles again AFD? |
Except HCQ hasn't been shown to be ineffective when correctly administered. [Post edited 9 Sep 2020 19:41]
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| So much for Vaccines. on 19:38 - Sep 9 with 1165 views | Scotia |
| So much for Vaccines. on 18:03 - Sep 9 by A_Fans_Dad |
Except HCQ hasn't been shown to be ineffective when correctly administered. [Post edited 9 Sep 2020 19:41]
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You can't have much faith in the authors of the article you linked then. | | | |
| So much for Vaccines. on 19:42 - Sep 9 with 1160 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| So much for Vaccines. on 19:38 - Sep 9 by Scotia |
You can't have much faith in the authors of the article you linked then. |
Why, they are only following the official WHO lead. | | | |
| So much for Vaccines. on 20:34 - Sep 9 with 1151 views | Scotia |
| So much for Vaccines. on 19:42 - Sep 9 by A_Fans_Dad |
Why, they are only following the official WHO lead. |
I wonder if they declared that they were WHO stooges on the paper they published?
Either way you certainly aren't looking at this objectively.
I hope you and this paper are correct my family and I will be fine in that case.
Case increases in southern Europe and the southern States of the USA during the end of the summer may indicate otherwise though. | | | |
| So much for Vaccines. on 20:58 - Sep 9 with 1136 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| So much for Vaccines. on 20:34 - Sep 9 by Scotia |
I wonder if they declared that they were WHO stooges on the paper they published?
Either way you certainly aren't looking at this objectively.
I hope you and this paper are correct my family and I will be fine in that case.
Case increases in southern Europe and the southern States of the USA during the end of the summer may indicate otherwise though. |
I suggest that you compare the so called European increase with the beginning of the pandemic paying particular attention to the Deaths versus cases.
That is what having extra vitamin D may bring, but you can assign it to anything you want.
Of course the European increase doesn't have anything to do with increased testing.
Nor does the USA one.
"Either way you certainly aren't looking at this objectively."
And you are?
As if this was the only evidence.
By the way extra sunshine will only help a little with older people with Vitamin D deficiency. [Post edited 9 Sep 2020 21:06]
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| So much for Vaccines. on 21:37 - Sep 9 with 1123 views | Scotia |
| So much for Vaccines. on 20:58 - Sep 9 by A_Fans_Dad |
I suggest that you compare the so called European increase with the beginning of the pandemic paying particular attention to the Deaths versus cases.
That is what having extra vitamin D may bring, but you can assign it to anything you want.
Of course the European increase doesn't have anything to do with increased testing.
Nor does the USA one.
"Either way you certainly aren't looking at this objectively."
And you are?
As if this was the only evidence.
By the way extra sunshine will only help a little with older people with Vitamin D deficiency. [Post edited 9 Sep 2020 21:06]
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No I'm looking at this completely objectively. I would love vitamin d to improve covid outcomes and recognise that deficiency may be a problem.
But you stated that vitamin d supplementation should be the first line of defence and that clearly isn't the case.
Let's take southern Europe as an example. There is an increase in cases particularly among the under 30's, some of this may be attributable to increased testing, but there is an increase nonetheless. This has spilled over to the Cote d'zur having the highest hospitalisation rates in France.
Now young mediterranean people do not have a vitamin D deficiency not only from living in the sunniest part of Europe but also having a diet naturally high in vitamin D.
They are contracting and spreading covid 19.
Young people are also considerably less likely to die of covid anyway.
Also these areas are still under some degree of social distancing restrictions that almost certainly weren't in place the last time the virus was spreading to this degree.
Vitamin D really doesn't seem to be a panacea. | | | |
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| So much for Vaccines. on 23:04 - Sep 9 with 1100 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| So much for Vaccines. on 21:37 - Sep 9 by Scotia |
No I'm looking at this completely objectively. I would love vitamin d to improve covid outcomes and recognise that deficiency may be a problem.
But you stated that vitamin d supplementation should be the first line of defence and that clearly isn't the case.
Let's take southern Europe as an example. There is an increase in cases particularly among the under 30's, some of this may be attributable to increased testing, but there is an increase nonetheless. This has spilled over to the Cote d'zur having the highest hospitalisation rates in France.
Now young mediterranean people do not have a vitamin D deficiency not only from living in the sunniest part of Europe but also having a diet naturally high in vitamin D.
They are contracting and spreading covid 19.
Young people are also considerably less likely to die of covid anyway.
Also these areas are still under some degree of social distancing restrictions that almost certainly weren't in place the last time the virus was spreading to this degree.
Vitamin D really doesn't seem to be a panacea. |
I agree that it is not the only answer and I have listed the others.
But prevention and easing symptoms is better than waiting until patients are in ICU before intervening.
As the saying goes every little helps. | | | |
| So much for Vaccines. on 12:00 - Sep 10 with 1051 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| So much for Vaccines. on 21:37 - Sep 9 by Scotia |
No I'm looking at this completely objectively. I would love vitamin d to improve covid outcomes and recognise that deficiency may be a problem.
But you stated that vitamin d supplementation should be the first line of defence and that clearly isn't the case.
Let's take southern Europe as an example. There is an increase in cases particularly among the under 30's, some of this may be attributable to increased testing, but there is an increase nonetheless. This has spilled over to the Cote d'zur having the highest hospitalisation rates in France.
Now young mediterranean people do not have a vitamin D deficiency not only from living in the sunniest part of Europe but also having a diet naturally high in vitamin D.
They are contracting and spreading covid 19.
Young people are also considerably less likely to die of covid anyway.
Also these areas are still under some degree of social distancing restrictions that almost certainly weren't in place the last time the virus was spreading to this degree.
Vitamin D really doesn't seem to be a panacea. |
On further consideration, you have actually made the case for my point.
Rather than diminishing the theory, you have provided evidence that re-inforces it.
The original 2007 study did not say that the women on Vitamin D did not get colds or the Flu, as no Flu testing was done.
They had no cold or Flu Symptoms.
The latest study I posted did not say the those given Vitamin D did not get COVID-19, it cut the need for ICU use by 70%.
The one thing that we know about the youngsters is that they are 90%+ likely to be either asymptomatic, or suffer minor symptoms.
With children it is closer to 99% who suffer minor symptoms if at all.
The current round of young people being tested are not ill, just testing positive.
Compare the current daily positive tests with the chart of hospitalisations here.
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/
No uptick in hospitalisations to go with the increase in positive cases, I don't know why that government data is not up to date as it should be.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could impart the same level of immunity to all the BAME people, all those with Obesity, Diabetes, old age etc? | | | |
| So much for Vaccines. on 13:34 - Sep 10 with 1042 views | Professor |
| So much for Vaccines. on 12:00 - Sep 10 by A_Fans_Dad |
On further consideration, you have actually made the case for my point.
Rather than diminishing the theory, you have provided evidence that re-inforces it.
The original 2007 study did not say that the women on Vitamin D did not get colds or the Flu, as no Flu testing was done.
They had no cold or Flu Symptoms.
The latest study I posted did not say the those given Vitamin D did not get COVID-19, it cut the need for ICU use by 70%.
The one thing that we know about the youngsters is that they are 90%+ likely to be either asymptomatic, or suffer minor symptoms.
With children it is closer to 99% who suffer minor symptoms if at all.
The current round of young people being tested are not ill, just testing positive.
Compare the current daily positive tests with the chart of hospitalisations here.
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/
No uptick in hospitalisations to go with the increase in positive cases, I don't know why that government data is not up to date as it should be.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could impart the same level of immunity to all the BAME people, all those with Obesity, Diabetes, old age etc? |
That's just not possible-with all the will in the world and any therapy it won't happen with the possible exception of BAME individuals..
Type 2 diabetes with proper management should reduce the risk -both hypo and hyper glycaemia events can affect immune function
Type 1 diabetes is an immune disease and sufferers have a range of varying effects on immune function-most susceptible group of course.
Immune function naturally drops with age (even post 30) a process called immunosenescence. Whilst diet and supplements will help, they won't restore function lost.
As you will know for MOST infections the very young (immunologically naive) and old are most susceptible. SARS CoV 2 sits in a more unusual group where poor control/regulation of inflammation (presumably by regulatory T cells) are a feature (not unique happens in Streptococcus for example) leading to a cytokine storm. I guess there will be a lot of research in the area of ageing and immune regulation in the near future. | | | |
| So much for Vaccines. on 17:29 - Sep 10 with 1023 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| So much for Vaccines. on 13:34 - Sep 10 by Professor |
That's just not possible-with all the will in the world and any therapy it won't happen with the possible exception of BAME individuals..
Type 2 diabetes with proper management should reduce the risk -both hypo and hyper glycaemia events can affect immune function
Type 1 diabetes is an immune disease and sufferers have a range of varying effects on immune function-most susceptible group of course.
Immune function naturally drops with age (even post 30) a process called immunosenescence. Whilst diet and supplements will help, they won't restore function lost.
As you will know for MOST infections the very young (immunologically naive) and old are most susceptible. SARS CoV 2 sits in a more unusual group where poor control/regulation of inflammation (presumably by regulatory T cells) are a feature (not unique happens in Streptococcus for example) leading to a cytokine storm. I guess there will be a lot of research in the area of ageing and immune regulation in the near future. |
Yes, months and months, possibly years of study.
And thousands of deaths all over the world.
Never mind. | | | |
| So much for Vaccines. on 17:36 - Sep 10 with 1016 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| So much for Vaccines. on 13:34 - Sep 10 by Professor |
That's just not possible-with all the will in the world and any therapy it won't happen with the possible exception of BAME individuals..
Type 2 diabetes with proper management should reduce the risk -both hypo and hyper glycaemia events can affect immune function
Type 1 diabetes is an immune disease and sufferers have a range of varying effects on immune function-most susceptible group of course.
Immune function naturally drops with age (even post 30) a process called immunosenescence. Whilst diet and supplements will help, they won't restore function lost.
As you will know for MOST infections the very young (immunologically naive) and old are most susceptible. SARS CoV 2 sits in a more unusual group where poor control/regulation of inflammation (presumably by regulatory T cells) are a feature (not unique happens in Streptococcus for example) leading to a cytokine storm. I guess there will be a lot of research in the area of ageing and immune regulation in the near future. |
And another one.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne
well another report of the Spanish study anyway. [Post edited 10 Sep 2020 18:09]
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| So much for Vaccines. on 18:46 - Sep 10 with 1003 views | Scotia |
And another rehashed report that says HCQ has been discredited. | | | |
| So much for Vaccines. on 18:49 - Sep 10 with 1002 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| So much for Vaccines. on 18:46 - Sep 10 by Scotia |
And another rehashed report that says HCQ has been discredited. |
Why are you so negative, do you hate good news?
Do you feel depressed or suicidal or something? | | | |
| So much for Vaccines. on 22:00 - Sep 10 with 989 views | Scotia |
| So much for Vaccines. on 18:49 - Sep 10 by A_Fans_Dad |
Why are you so negative, do you hate good news?
Do you feel depressed or suicidal or something? |
You who keep posting links to covid treatments that don't work. It's making me sad. | | | |
| So much for Vaccines. on 22:10 - Sep 10 with 987 views | Professor |
| So much for Vaccines. on 22:00 - Sep 10 by Scotia |
You who keep posting links to covid treatments that don't work. It's making me sad. |
And me too | | | |
| So much for Vaccines. on 04:16 - Sep 11 with 966 views | Glyn1 |
| So much for Vaccines. on 22:10 - Sep 10 by Professor |
And me too |
me three |  |
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| So much for Vaccines. on 11:55 - Sep 11 with 932 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| So much for Vaccines. on 22:00 - Sep 10 by Scotia |
You who keep posting links to covid treatments that don't work. It's making me sad. |
Says you but not the front line doctors.
I know who I would rather have treating me if I had COVID-19 and it ain't you. | | | |
| So much for Vaccines. on 16:02 - Sep 11 with 915 views | Scotia |
| So much for Vaccines. on 11:55 - Sep 11 by A_Fans_Dad |
Says you but not the front line doctors.
I know who I would rather have treating me if I had COVID-19 and it ain't you. |
No, says you. You've been banging on that HCQ is a cure and now posted two links to say its useless. Make up your mind. | | | |
| So much for Vaccines. on 17:52 - Sep 11 with 899 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| So much for Vaccines. on 16:02 - Sep 11 by Scotia |
No, says you. You've been banging on that HCQ is a cure and now posted two links to say its useless. Make up your mind. |
Neither link says it is useless, you need to look at the numbers.
What it says is that it is better with vitamin D.
It is also supposed to be used with Zinc, of which there is no mention.
You cannot make up what I have said, all along it has been HCQ with Zinc or later HCQ with Zinc & an antibiotic as the treatment protocol was improved.
I have also pointed out numerous times it has to be administered as early as possible.
So please point out where the study shows that HCQ is useless. [Post edited 11 Sep 2020 18:07]
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| So much for Vaccines. on 20:25 - Sep 11 with 884 views | felixstowe_jack |
| So much for Vaccines. on 17:52 - Sep 11 by A_Fans_Dad |
Neither link says it is useless, you need to look at the numbers.
What it says is that it is better with vitamin D.
It is also supposed to be used with Zinc, of which there is no mention.
You cannot make up what I have said, all along it has been HCQ with Zinc or later HCQ with Zinc & an antibiotic as the treatment protocol was improved.
I have also pointed out numerous times it has to be administered as early as possible.
So please point out where the study shows that HCQ is useless. [Post edited 11 Sep 2020 18:07]
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Are you doctor? | |
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| So much for Vaccines. on 20:27 - Sep 11 with 883 views | Scotia |
| So much for Vaccines. on 17:52 - Sep 11 by A_Fans_Dad |
Neither link says it is useless, you need to look at the numbers.
What it says is that it is better with vitamin D.
It is also supposed to be used with Zinc, of which there is no mention.
You cannot make up what I have said, all along it has been HCQ with Zinc or later HCQ with Zinc & an antibiotic as the treatment protocol was improved.
I have also pointed out numerous times it has to be administered as early as possible.
So please point out where the study shows that HCQ is useless. [Post edited 11 Sep 2020 18:07]
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I quoted it about 5 posts back. I'm not doing it again. It's clear to most that you post nonsense, but at least read it first. | | | |
| So much for Vaccines. (n/t) on 21:14 - Sep 11 with 876 views | A_Fans_Dad |
No, but I can read what doctors say. [Post edited 11 Sep 2020 21:15]
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| So much for Vaccines. on 21:34 - Sep 11 with 864 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| So much for Vaccines. on 20:27 - Sep 11 by Scotia |
I quoted it about 5 posts back. I'm not doing it again. It's clear to most that you post nonsense, but at least read it first. |
The actual study is here
https://www.sciencedirect.com/
Unfortunately they were quoting another study, this one.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.10
This study says and I quote "Hydroxychloroquine-treated patients were more severely ill at baseline than those who did not receive hydroxychloroquine (median ratio of partial pressure of arterial oxygen to the fraction of inspired oxygen, 223 vs. 360)."
In other words it was already too late for HCQ.
And no Zinc was used and no Antibiotic was used.
Going back to the Vitamin D study they stated "Although frequencies vary according to series, more than 40 % of patients hospitalized because of COVIDâ€19 pneumonia developed ARDS of which more than 50 % ultimately died "
Therefore 20% normally die.
In this study there were 26 patients not on added vitamin D and 2 died ie 8%.
So a reduction of 12% equaling 8/20 = 40% a 60% reduction in deaths. [Post edited 11 Sep 2020 21:40]
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