| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 19:08 - Nov 27 with 531 views | Jack123 |
| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 18:49 - Nov 27 by Sirjohnalot |
In nearly 20 years of doing my job, I’ve met 2 people who I’d describe as evil. Stone cold, nothing behind the eyes, evil. Nothing would deter them. Really chilling. |
Were you representing them? I would guess it would be very hard to do a professional service, when you know the ones, the case you are fighting for should not be on the streets..
Like deep down, you know yourself they are bad news..
And BTW there is no need to answer that, because perhaps you are not anonymous on here, just in case any busy body creates trouble for you in future. |  |
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| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 19:44 - Nov 27 with 500 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 19:08 - Nov 27 by Jack123 |
Were you representing them? I would guess it would be very hard to do a professional service, when you know the ones, the case you are fighting for should not be on the streets..
Like deep down, you know yourself they are bad news..
And BTW there is no need to answer that, because perhaps you are not anonymous on here, just in case any busy body creates trouble for you in future. |
Yes I did rep. First one when I was a paralegal, second when I was a solicitor
Not at all. It’s very difficult to represent people like that but you’re professionally obliged to do so. Without us, they’d be cross examining victims, we advise them to enter guilty pleas or seek medical reports. If they’re psychopaths eg they end up in mental health hospitals , some for life.
People like that, as unpalatable as it sounds are still entitled to a defence. Some are genuinely ill (real psychopaths obviously aren’t well) but defence briefs work often results in cases finishing before the trial.
Couzens, eg pleaded guilty, without the defence he would have ran a trial. Both sides then made their proposals to the judge re the sentence as it was a unique situation.
His barrister was professionally obliged to appeal due to the sentence being outside what was in the usual guidelines. It won’t succeed but it must be appealed if nothing else than to clarify the law. [Post edited 27 Nov 2021 19:45]
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| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 20:01 - Nov 27 with 479 views | Jack123 |
| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 19:44 - Nov 27 by Sirjohnalot |
Yes I did rep. First one when I was a paralegal, second when I was a solicitor
Not at all. It’s very difficult to represent people like that but you’re professionally obliged to do so. Without us, they’d be cross examining victims, we advise them to enter guilty pleas or seek medical reports. If they’re psychopaths eg they end up in mental health hospitals , some for life.
People like that, as unpalatable as it sounds are still entitled to a defence. Some are genuinely ill (real psychopaths obviously aren’t well) but defence briefs work often results in cases finishing before the trial.
Couzens, eg pleaded guilty, without the defence he would have ran a trial. Both sides then made their proposals to the judge re the sentence as it was a unique situation.
His barrister was professionally obliged to appeal due to the sentence being outside what was in the usual guidelines. It won’t succeed but it must be appealed if nothing else than to clarify the law. [Post edited 27 Nov 2021 19:45]
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Thanks.. Sorry to change subject, but I was thinking of asking you this the other month and forgot.
Right basically it involves the last episode in the current series of 24 hours in police custody, it was something like shaken baby..
From what I understand from that programme say Mam and Dad are in the house, baby gets rushed to hospital, the doctors/consultants say that that the baby has been shook and harm upon them.
https://www.channel4.com/progr
EDIT: It was this episode.
The parents get pulled in, and all they have to do is say no comment? From what the detective in case said, unless somebody says something, there is nothing they can do, and the cps won't pursue it, how could that be the case? [Post edited 27 Nov 2021 20:09]
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| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 20:38 - Nov 27 with 458 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 20:01 - Nov 27 by Jack123 |
Thanks.. Sorry to change subject, but I was thinking of asking you this the other month and forgot.
Right basically it involves the last episode in the current series of 24 hours in police custody, it was something like shaken baby..
From what I understand from that programme say Mam and Dad are in the house, baby gets rushed to hospital, the doctors/consultants say that that the baby has been shook and harm upon them.
https://www.channel4.com/progr
EDIT: It was this episode.
The parents get pulled in, and all they have to do is say no comment? From what the detective in case said, unless somebody says something, there is nothing they can do, and the cps won't pursue it, how could that be the case? [Post edited 27 Nov 2021 20:09]
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Yes saw that. Absolute nonsense. Similar to what she said about a case where someone was found ’ not guilty’ it meant that the jury didn’t believe them. That’s not right, it just means they weren’t sure, like if both the defendant and complainant come across well, they may not know what to believe.
What she should’ve said is ‘we knew that the baby was injured we suspected it was one of them but as we had no evidence, as to which one it was, we couldn’t charge.’
If it went to trial, it would be impossible for the jury to know which one did it, they wouldn’t be charged with doing it together as there’s no evidence for that. At the end of the prosecution case, defence would make an application for ‘no case to answer’ meaning a ‘reasonable jury properly directed, couldn’t convict’ . Even if the judge said to proceed, you wouldn’t call your client, so they wouldn’t give evidence and couldn’t be cross examined.
If eg, there was evidence as to when the injury happened and one of them was out when it occurred, going no comment, wouldn’t have made a difference, they’d be charged.
She made it sound as if going ‘no comment’ means that’s it. | | | |
| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 20:51 - Nov 27 with 450 views | Jack123 |
| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 20:38 - Nov 27 by Sirjohnalot |
Yes saw that. Absolute nonsense. Similar to what she said about a case where someone was found ’ not guilty’ it meant that the jury didn’t believe them. That’s not right, it just means they weren’t sure, like if both the defendant and complainant come across well, they may not know what to believe.
What she should’ve said is ‘we knew that the baby was injured we suspected it was one of them but as we had no evidence, as to which one it was, we couldn’t charge.’
If it went to trial, it would be impossible for the jury to know which one did it, they wouldn’t be charged with doing it together as there’s no evidence for that. At the end of the prosecution case, defence would make an application for ‘no case to answer’ meaning a ‘reasonable jury properly directed, couldn’t convict’ . Even if the judge said to proceed, you wouldn’t call your client, so they wouldn’t give evidence and couldn’t be cross examined.
If eg, there was evidence as to when the injury happened and one of them was out when it occurred, going no comment, wouldn’t have made a difference, they’d be charged.
She made it sound as if going ‘no comment’ means that’s it. |
Thank you, so if Mam and Dad are both in the house, baby gets shaken, gets taken to hospital, injuries confirmed by hospital, baby has been ill treated..
If both parents say they are present, and go no comment, then no charges can be brought?
Sorry If I have misread your post, it's slightly complex for a layman, but I note the bit at the end, saying if was one of them was out. | |
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| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 21:07 - Nov 27 with 447 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 20:51 - Nov 27 by Jack123 |
Thank you, so if Mam and Dad are both in the house, baby gets shaken, gets taken to hospital, injuries confirmed by hospital, baby has been ill treated..
If both parents say they are present, and go no comment, then no charges can be brought?
Sorry If I have misread your post, it's slightly complex for a layman, but I note the bit at the end, saying if was one of them was out. |
If I was representing one of them in the police station, I’d do a prepared statement, denying the offence.
If I thought my partner was capable of that, I’d want them prosecuted. Problem with that is, they could then cause what’s called a ‘cut throat defence’ where they both blame each other, but even then how can the police charge if there’s no evidence as to who did it ?
Remember the prosecution have to prove the case so that the jury are ‘sure’. If they charge both for one offence, how can even they be sure who did it ? | | | |
| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 21:09 - Nov 27 with 444 views | Sirjohnalot |
…of course sometimes there may be medical evidence that a strike was caused by someone who was right handed, or a certain height which could go towers which one did it, but it’s a very difficult one | | | |
| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 21:16 - Nov 27 with 437 views | Jack123 |
| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 21:09 - Nov 27 by Sirjohnalot |
…of course sometimes there may be medical evidence that a strike was caused by someone who was right handed, or a certain height which could go towers which one did it, but it’s a very difficult one |
Thanks.. so if a baby is shaken to near death, the question is if the so called Mam and Dad, give a no comment interview would the cps prosecute them? | |
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| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 21:28 - Nov 27 with 418 views | Jack123 |
| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 21:16 - Nov 27 by Jack123 |
Thanks.. so if a baby is shaken to near death, the question is if the so called Mam and Dad, give a no comment interview would the cps prosecute them? |
Only reason I ask this question John, the way I see it 3 males in a house, one of them gets battered close to death, the other 2 both deny it, surely one of them would be charged, but from what I see they don't pursue baby harming cases. Or they give them an easy option out. | |
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| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 21:29 - Nov 27 with 416 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 21:16 - Nov 27 by Jack123 |
Thanks.. so if a baby is shaken to near death, the question is if the so called Mam and Dad, give a no comment interview would the cps prosecute them? |
If only evidence was
1. Baby was shaken
2. No idea which did it
3. No comment interview
4. Neither has violent convictions
5. No other evidence
Unlikely as no realistic prospect of conviction.
If you were a juror, putting aside the fact that you may hate them, you couldn’t, having taken an oath to make a decision on the evidence, convict.
Unlikely to get to that stage as it, even if charged, would likely be thrown out before the trial. If you think about it, if you were the dad eg, did not do it, and had no reason to suspect your wife, why should you be charged and face going to prison for life ? (Or capital punishment) Safety measures are put in place to prevent people being charged purely because the police don’t like someone.
The officer, also, should be neutral, an evidence gatherer, not trying to get a conviction as they seem to be on that programme. (Understandable but not how they should do the job) | | | |
| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 21:41 - Nov 27 with 408 views | Jack123 |
| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 21:29 - Nov 27 by Sirjohnalot |
If only evidence was
1. Baby was shaken
2. No idea which did it
3. No comment interview
4. Neither has violent convictions
5. No other evidence
Unlikely as no realistic prospect of conviction.
If you were a juror, putting aside the fact that you may hate them, you couldn’t, having taken an oath to make a decision on the evidence, convict.
Unlikely to get to that stage as it, even if charged, would likely be thrown out before the trial. If you think about it, if you were the dad eg, did not do it, and had no reason to suspect your wife, why should you be charged and face going to prison for life ? (Or capital punishment) Safety measures are put in place to prevent people being charged purely because the police don’t like someone.
The officer, also, should be neutral, an evidence gatherer, not trying to get a conviction as they seem to be on that programme. (Understandable but not how they should do the job) |
Thank you.. For that reply, totally over my head of course, I will have to read it tomorrow when sober, But not that drunk, and it's looking pretty good.. Thank you for taking your time to explain stuff to terwaats like me. | |
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| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 21:47 - Nov 27 with 398 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 21:41 - Nov 27 by Jack123 |
Thank you.. For that reply, totally over my head of course, I will have to read it tomorrow when sober, But not that drunk, and it's looking pretty good.. Thank you for taking your time to explain stuff to terwaats like me. |
Mate, I’m lying on the settee, with my dog cŵtched up watching the jungle programme, not exactly breaking into my Saturday night : )
(I am 4 cups of tea in though ) | | | |
| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 21:49 - Nov 27 with 396 views | Dr_Winston |
| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 18:26 - Nov 27 by Sirjohnalot |
I represented a chap who killed a burglar who broke into his house, had a fight with him (there were two of them) in the kitchen and stabbed him with a knife. Was dropped before trial but had he been convicted, he’d have been facing the death penalty.
Do you see how it becomes complicated ? Do you split up murder into different categories? Only kill those who commit ‘nasty murders ?’ How do you define it ? Two lads fighting in a street, police come to stop, push the officer who falls and hits his head and dies ? Wife or husband killing their violent partner ? Person who loses his temper in a road rage incident ? Father killing a man who raped his daughter ?
Once you open that box, it can’t be shut, |
The problem there is that your guy ended up in court at all. There should be no legal restrictions on the force you can use on someone who has broken into your home.
I am in favour of the death penalty (although far less than I used to be). I would not want to see it used as standard in all capital cases, but I certainly believe that it should be a sentencing option in particularly heinous crimes, at judicial discretion. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 21:59 - Nov 27 with 382 views | Jack123 |
| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 21:47 - Nov 27 by Sirjohnalot |
Mate, I’m lying on the settee, with my dog cŵtched up watching the jungle programme, not exactly breaking into my Saturday night : )
(I am 4 cups of tea in though ) |
Can't fault it.. Slightly envious I'm going to push the missis for a dog, She is dead against it.. Hmm | |
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| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 22:18 - Nov 27 with 369 views | Sirjohnalot |
| Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 21:59 - Nov 27 by Jack123 |
Can't fault it.. Slightly envious I'm going to push the missis for a dog, She is dead against it.. Hmm |
He’s just over three, massive help over lockdown, he’s so excited every time we come home from work. Doesn’t really need that much walking.
Cocker Spaniel. Best thing we ever did | | | |
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