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Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 13:15 - Nov 25 by controversial_jack
The advance in technology didn't help the David Morris case. There are still injustices happening despite any so called advance.
The advance in science/technology didn't help solve the David Morris's case because it was not available at the time of the murders investigation! BTW (not reported!) the sock was mentioned at both trials and a full explanation was given as to why (the sock) convicting DNA evidence was not available at that particular period of time.
If you meant that it did not help clear him? Well it would not because he was the murderer and proven guilty!
Thank God for research and development and scientific advancement, whether that be testing or (e.g. Isomark innovation) crime scene recovery.
Thankfully other overwhelming evidence convicted Morris and that evidence has since been strengthened/corroborated courtesy of DNA testing advancement. That further damned 100% guilty Morris twenty two years after the murders. BTW (Operation Dolomite) the testing process started way before his death!
Argus!
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Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 18:00 - Nov 25 with 1046 views
Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 17:55 - Nov 25 by Wingstandwood
The advance in science/technology didn't help solve the David Morris's case because it was not available at the time of the murders investigation! BTW (not reported!) the sock was mentioned at both trials and a full explanation was given as to why (the sock) convicting DNA evidence was not available at that particular period of time.
If you meant that it did not help clear him? Well it would not because he was the murderer and proven guilty!
Thank God for research and development and scientific advancement, whether that be testing or (e.g. Isomark innovation) crime scene recovery.
Thankfully other overwhelming evidence convicted Morris and that evidence has since been strengthened/corroborated courtesy of DNA testing advancement. That further damned 100% guilty Morris twenty two years after the murders. BTW (Operation Dolomite) the testing process started way before his death!
All of which means Morris should have received the capital punishment.
Going back to the OP, what’s happened is terrible and the person imprisoned for all that time should, without doubt be compensated. I don’t agree with the death sentence because innocent people could be executed. My personal view is that the perpetrators of such crimes should do hard time and that every day should be a punishment for the crime they’ve committed.
Plenty of offenders who are guilty are acquitted, I’d say more people who are guilty are acquitted than there are innocent people being found guilty.
The cost of legal representation in proceedings can be very expensive and lots of people struggle to secure legal representation in proceedings, it’s quite likely the guy in the article struggled to secure quality representation.
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Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 23:48 - Nov 25 with 966 views
Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 07:50 - Nov 26 by 73__73
If someone is 100% guilty of certain crimes, ie crimes against children etc, then the death penalty should be used in my opinion.
How do you define 100% guilty ? It would be almost impossible to prove to that standard. The Birmingham 6, the Guildford 4, Cardiff 3, Craig and Bentley, Timothy Evans were all cases were people who convicted when juries were sure. They were all later overturned. (It was too late in the Craig and Bentley case as the death penalty was in place then.)
It’s almost certain that the conviction rate would plummet if on the verdict of a jury, someone would die. Also to find 12 people who are prepared to sit on a jury with that as an outcome would cause many problems and you’d be left with 12 people who aren’t a fair reflection of society.
I know first hand how difficult and how long juries take to come to a decision in serious cases, this would make that even worse and lead to a plethora of juries not being able to make a decision.
You can’t overturn a verdict on someone who is dead.
It’ll never return to this country, I’d never take part in a capital punishment trial and the overwhelming majority of my colleagues wouldn’t either. That’s without going into the evidence that it’s no deterrent. We can’t become like the US
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Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 12:53 - Nov 27 with 744 views
Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 16:26 - Nov 26 by Sirjohnalot
How do you define 100% guilty ? It would be almost impossible to prove to that standard. The Birmingham 6, the Guildford 4, Cardiff 3, Craig and Bentley, Timothy Evans were all cases were people who convicted when juries were sure. They were all later overturned. (It was too late in the Craig and Bentley case as the death penalty was in place then.)
It’s almost certain that the conviction rate would plummet if on the verdict of a jury, someone would die. Also to find 12 people who are prepared to sit on a jury with that as an outcome would cause many problems and you’d be left with 12 people who aren’t a fair reflection of society.
I know first hand how difficult and how long juries take to come to a decision in serious cases, this would make that even worse and lead to a plethora of juries not being able to make a decision.
You can’t overturn a verdict on someone who is dead.
It’ll never return to this country, I’d never take part in a capital punishment trial and the overwhelming majority of my colleagues wouldn’t either. That’s without going into the evidence that it’s no deterrent. We can’t become like the US
In cases of the bleeding-bloody-obvious, regarding the lesser-complex, more straightforward cases? One example i.e. Adolf Hitler is in the mind of non-Nazi sympathisers and non-holocaust deniers 100% guilty for his involvement in the mass murder of millions! Not 97%.....Not 98%.....100% percent.
Likewise many murderers, mass murderers and serial killers. Another example i.e. Peter Sutcliffe is 100% guilty of being The Yorkshire Ripper in the minds of the reporters that attended his trial?
That's how the 'civvies' from outside of 'The Chambers' would define it.... And of course those from inside 'The Chambers' that come from a completely different world and would naturally analyse/judge/view and define things from a completely different perspective. By profession naturally Instinctive and biased towards raising doubt? The Yorkshire Ripper? 99% guilty maybe?
Argus!
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Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 13:50 - Nov 27 with 708 views
Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 12:53 - Nov 27 by Wingstandwood
In cases of the bleeding-bloody-obvious, regarding the lesser-complex, more straightforward cases? One example i.e. Adolf Hitler is in the mind of non-Nazi sympathisers and non-holocaust deniers 100% guilty for his involvement in the mass murder of millions! Not 97%.....Not 98%.....100% percent.
Likewise many murderers, mass murderers and serial killers. Another example i.e. Peter Sutcliffe is 100% guilty of being The Yorkshire Ripper in the minds of the reporters that attended his trial?
That's how the 'civvies' from outside of 'The Chambers' would define it.... And of course those from inside 'The Chambers' that come from a completely different world and would naturally analyse/judge/view and define things from a completely different perspective. By profession naturally Instinctive and biased towards raising doubt? The Yorkshire Ripper? 99% guilty maybe?
The thing is people whom have been found guilty, like those I mentioned were found guilty but due to police corruption, sometimes witnesses lie and people are convicted. If that happened, they’d be dead.
You used extreme examples, you can’t hold Hitler as someone who was 100% guilty as that is obvious. It was his regime. The reporters who attended Birmingham 6 trial were also sure as they’d admitted the offence during interview.
Of course we have to analyse the evidence, that’s how evidence is uncovered, and sometimes shown to be a lie
On a side point, I’m not from a completely different world, normal Comp, dad a steelworker. I’m from a normal as background as you could imagine.
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Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 15:57 - Nov 27 with 672 views
Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 13:50 - Nov 27 by Sirjohnalot
The thing is people whom have been found guilty, like those I mentioned were found guilty but due to police corruption, sometimes witnesses lie and people are convicted. If that happened, they’d be dead.
You used extreme examples, you can’t hold Hitler as someone who was 100% guilty as that is obvious. It was his regime. The reporters who attended Birmingham 6 trial were also sure as they’d admitted the offence during interview.
Of course we have to analyse the evidence, that’s how evidence is uncovered, and sometimes shown to be a lie
On a side point, I’m not from a completely different world, normal Comp, dad a steelworker. I’m from a normal as background as you could imagine.
100% guilty are those caught in the act and there have been plenty of those.
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Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 17:15 - Nov 27 with 636 views
Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 15:57 - Nov 27 by A_Fans_Dad
100% guilty are those caught in the act and there have been plenty of those.
How do you define ‘caught in the act ?’ Anyone in such a situation would be advised to plead guilty. However if CP was the sentence, no one would plead guilty. Why would you ? It would prolong the pain for families and run the risk of a dodgy jury verdict.
That’s before you look at people who kill as a result of mental health which require hospital orders. It’s a moot point anyway as it’ll never return in a civilised country. Even in America the mood is turning against it.
Always appreciate someone’s reply who is in favour of it, always have very fair and reasonable points.
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Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 17:55 - Nov 27 with 621 views
Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 17:15 - Nov 27 by Sirjohnalot
How do you define ‘caught in the act ?’ Anyone in such a situation would be advised to plead guilty. However if CP was the sentence, no one would plead guilty. Why would you ? It would prolong the pain for families and run the risk of a dodgy jury verdict.
That’s before you look at people who kill as a result of mental health which require hospital orders. It’s a moot point anyway as it’ll never return in a civilised country. Even in America the mood is turning against it.
Always appreciate someone’s reply who is in favour of it, always have very fair and reasonable points.
I think people who would have the death penalty are sometimes swayed that way by the totally soft penalties we see in the news.
I have seen stories where criminals have a long list of previous convictions and still don't go to prison.
A change I would definitely like to see is prisoners not getting automatic early release. Good behaviour should only mean release at the end of your sentence, bad behaviour should see your time extended.
Personally I'm in favour of it, although I say that hoping it acts as an extra deterrent to anyone who wants to take another's life, but when I say that, I also think surely 20-25 years behind bars, should be deterrent enough?
I guess anyone who kills someone else, the punishment would be the last thing on their mind, whilst committing such a hideous act.
libera nos a malo
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Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 18:26 - Nov 27 with 607 views
Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 18:05 - Nov 27 by Jack123
Personally I'm in favour of it, although I say that hoping it acts as an extra deterrent to anyone who wants to take another's life, but when I say that, I also think surely 20-25 years behind bars, should be deterrent enough?
I guess anyone who kills someone else, the punishment would be the last thing on their mind, whilst committing such a hideous act.
I represented a chap who killed a burglar who broke into his house, had a fight with him (there were two of them) in the kitchen and stabbed him with a knife. Was dropped before trial but had he been convicted, he’d have been facing the death penalty.
Do you see how it becomes complicated ? Do you split up murder into different categories? Only kill those who commit ‘nasty murders ?’ How do you define it ? Two lads fighting in a street, police come to stop, push the officer who falls and hits his head and dies ? Wife or husband killing their violent partner ? Person who loses his temper in a road rage incident ? Father killing a man who raped his daughter ?
Once you open that box, it can’t be shut,
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Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 18:36 - Nov 27 with 599 views
Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 17:55 - Nov 27 by Catullus
I think people who would have the death penalty are sometimes swayed that way by the totally soft penalties we see in the news.
I have seen stories where criminals have a long list of previous convictions and still don't go to prison.
A change I would definitely like to see is prisoners not getting automatic early release. Good behaviour should only mean release at the end of your sentence, bad behaviour should see your time extended.
Problem is we cannot afford not to release people early. Our prisons are full at the moment when people are released. It’s not always automatic at half way anyway. People that commit really violent offences are often jailed for public protection so that they are only released when deemed safe. Papers have a lot to answer for either In not reporting sentences properly eg how long they’ve been on remand or exaggerating what happens in court
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Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 18:38 - Nov 27 with 599 views
Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 18:26 - Nov 27 by Sirjohnalot
I represented a chap who killed a burglar who broke into his house, had a fight with him (there were two of them) in the kitchen and stabbed him with a knife. Was dropped before trial but had he been convicted, he’d have been facing the death penalty.
Do you see how it becomes complicated ? Do you split up murder into different categories? Only kill those who commit ‘nasty murders ?’ How do you define it ? Two lads fighting in a street, police come to stop, push the officer who falls and hits his head and dies ? Wife or husband killing their violent partner ? Person who loses his temper in a road rage incident ? Father killing a man who raped his daughter ?
Once you open that box, it can’t be shut,
Very good points, that's what I was saying really in my post, although I tend to agree with the death penalty, only for deterrent purposes, in reality it would solve nothing.
I guess the only question is, how do you really stop someone from ever doing a crime such as murder, what deterrent would make them never do it? Personally thinking of it now, there isn't one.
libera nos a malo
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Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 18:49 - Nov 27 with 590 views
Thread for those wanting capital punishment on 18:38 - Nov 27 by Jack123
Very good points, that's what I was saying really in my post, although I tend to agree with the death penalty, only for deterrent purposes, in reality it would solve nothing.
I guess the only question is, how do you really stop someone from ever doing a crime such as murder, what deterrent would make them never do it? Personally thinking of it now, there isn't one.
In nearly 20 years of doing my job, I’ve met 2 people who I’d describe as evil. Stone cold, nothing behind the eyes, evil. Nothing would deter them. Really chilling.
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