| Be honest 21:18 - Nov 12 with 4565 views | builthjack |
If back in August you were told we would be equal 6th going into the World Cup break, would you have been happy?
I would have been. |  |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Be honest on 10:49 - Nov 16 with 920 views | onehunglow |
| Be honest on 10:36 - Nov 16 by magicdaps10 |
It sounds oh so easy especially when watching it from the sidelines and/or on TV but it's never as straight forward as that is it?
Its not a sport that can be dictated as an individual team but it's one where you have to play against another team, 11 players so all well laid plans are never as simple as going on to the grass and it just falls into place.
Once people get the fact that possession is kept to recycle the ball and ultimately try and allow us to play then the better.....this is dictated also by how the other team play or set up, unfortunately it's not in our own hands as much as we want to play a way, it doesn't always work out like that.
I think it was clear the way we played Millwall at home was the way that Martin wants to play, we'll atleast for the first 90mins 🙈
I think a lot of people can't see the way things are trying to be played, unfortunately I think a lot have been fooled by some on here who have created mistruths to tally with their agenda towards Martin.
I think as a team in 8th, a team just on the edge of the play offs with an average squad age of 22 is a very respectable position to be in with a 37yr old manager at the helm. The foundation is a bonus for me, I think we were sleep walking a bit previously under Cooper and were looking for instant success......after that Brentford final we could have easily have been in a dog fight and possible relegation battle, Martin came in and eventually settled things and true to his word said that we would see an improvement in league positioning. |
I’m afraid many do not see it your way daps.
You believe what you do and that’s fine but don’t ever think you are right or wrong ,come to that.
It’s difficult to be frank on here because of the hostile reception but many are not as sanguine as you and view matters totally different .
Personally,I am very concerned as to the future . First,if we were to go up ,then what then . How would our owners cope.That said,we have to have at least some ambition.
That means winning games.Sport is all about the glory,honour,success however small.Fans need hope,they need a lift to often humdrum lives.Watching the way we play is not a# pleasant for some as it is for you.
Martin Is the most influential manager we have had for many years though. |  |
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| Be honest on 10:56 - Nov 16 with 913 views | mart66 |
| Be honest on 10:36 - Nov 16 by magicdaps10 |
It sounds oh so easy especially when watching it from the sidelines and/or on TV but it's never as straight forward as that is it?
Its not a sport that can be dictated as an individual team but it's one where you have to play against another team, 11 players so all well laid plans are never as simple as going on to the grass and it just falls into place.
Once people get the fact that possession is kept to recycle the ball and ultimately try and allow us to play then the better.....this is dictated also by how the other team play or set up, unfortunately it's not in our own hands as much as we want to play a way, it doesn't always work out like that.
I think it was clear the way we played Millwall at home was the way that Martin wants to play, we'll atleast for the first 90mins 🙈
I think a lot of people can't see the way things are trying to be played, unfortunately I think a lot have been fooled by some on here who have created mistruths to tally with their agenda towards Martin.
I think as a team in 8th, a team just on the edge of the play offs with an average squad age of 22 is a very respectable position to be in with a 37yr old manager at the helm. The foundation is a bonus for me, I think we were sleep walking a bit previously under Cooper and were looking for instant success......after that Brentford final we could have easily have been in a dog fight and possible relegation battle, Martin came in and eventually settled things and true to his word said that we would see an improvement in league positioning. |
What sounds easy? Breaking down how we set up in the two separate ways that we do?
Not really difficult, if you aren’t able to see what’s in front of your with your eyes then the data is available to everyone to read. It couldn’t be simpler.
Minor differences to style of play happen with the opposition, but your style of play will largely remain the same. When you have the ball you will look to do largely the same thing. Martin has openly said that, the plan does not change for the opposition, we do the same thing. It’s something I agree with him on, he’s right.
But it does change depending on where we are in the league. The better we are doing the more he will ramp up Martinball, the more pressure he is under the further away he will get from it. It must be an incredible coincidence that it aligns perfectly with that.
I don’t think anyone is confused by “recycling the ball”, it’s a notion that is decades old and taught at the very basics of football. Every team recycles the ball, it has nothing to do with anything. We will largely look to do the same thing with the ball every game, depending on which of the two ways we have set up.
The only mistruths they have been created are by those pretending that things don’t change in our set up.
4 weeks ago everyone was admitting a very clear change in approach, we had barely 50% possession over a block of 7 games, were often out passed by the opposition and had double figures % of long balls. It couldn’t be denied.
Now we have gone back to Martinball and proven a lot of people right that he would do exactly that, we are now pretending that nothing changed after all and it must have been the opposition.
8th is okay. But we should be a lot higher, we are only regressing back to 8th because he has insisted on playing his silly style of football again. We have proven that when set up correctly we could be a real promotion force. |  |
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| Be honest on 15:39 - Nov 16 with 873 views | magicdaps10 |
| Be honest on 10:56 - Nov 16 by mart66 |
What sounds easy? Breaking down how we set up in the two separate ways that we do?
Not really difficult, if you aren’t able to see what’s in front of your with your eyes then the data is available to everyone to read. It couldn’t be simpler.
Minor differences to style of play happen with the opposition, but your style of play will largely remain the same. When you have the ball you will look to do largely the same thing. Martin has openly said that, the plan does not change for the opposition, we do the same thing. It’s something I agree with him on, he’s right.
But it does change depending on where we are in the league. The better we are doing the more he will ramp up Martinball, the more pressure he is under the further away he will get from it. It must be an incredible coincidence that it aligns perfectly with that.
I don’t think anyone is confused by “recycling the ball”, it’s a notion that is decades old and taught at the very basics of football. Every team recycles the ball, it has nothing to do with anything. We will largely look to do the same thing with the ball every game, depending on which of the two ways we have set up.
The only mistruths they have been created are by those pretending that things don’t change in our set up.
4 weeks ago everyone was admitting a very clear change in approach, we had barely 50% possession over a block of 7 games, were often out passed by the opposition and had double figures % of long balls. It couldn’t be denied.
Now we have gone back to Martinball and proven a lot of people right that he would do exactly that, we are now pretending that nothing changed after all and it must have been the opposition.
8th is okay. But we should be a lot higher, we are only regressing back to 8th because he has insisted on playing his silly style of football again. We have proven that when set up correctly we could be a real promotion force. |
How far back can recycling the football in phrase go!?
One poster by all accounts stated they were doing it at 10yrs of age during the early 90s!
I beg to differ that it goes back decades, I can only go from my experience and unless the proof can be shown then recycling the ball is a new concept given how much football has changed in the last decade alone.
Football has evolved and many seem to see, want to see or understand that.........football has become far more than just getting the ball forward quicker, it's not quite as simple as you or others make out. |  |
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| Be honest on 17:14 - Nov 16 with 860 views | onehunglow |
| Be honest on 15:39 - Nov 16 by magicdaps10 |
How far back can recycling the football in phrase go!?
One poster by all accounts stated they were doing it at 10yrs of age during the early 90s!
I beg to differ that it goes back decades, I can only go from my experience and unless the proof can be shown then recycling the ball is a new concept given how much football has changed in the last decade alone.
Football has evolved and many seem to see, want to see or understand that.........football has become far more than just getting the ball forward quicker, it's not quite as simple as you or others make out. |
Define “ recycling “the ball. | |
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| Be honest on 17:37 - Nov 16 with 851 views | felixstowe_jack |
6 out 10. I still think with the quality and depth of our squad we are under performing and should be a few places higher in the league.
We are still basically too slow at getting the ball forward allowing defences to reorganise.
It seems when we high possession stats we don't score enough goals and either lose or draw.
When we have lower possession we seem to win and score more goals.
We still seem to start slowly in first half conceding 12 goals in first half hour of matches the second worst in the league. | |
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| Be honest on 17:45 - Nov 16 with 845 views | magicdaps10 |
| Be honest on 17:14 - Nov 16 by onehunglow |
Define “ recycling “the ball. |
Of course.
Recycling the ball is a term that is used to look after the ball if there is no clear route to penentrate a defence or create a pass that gets you on the front foot.....if there is nothing on them you "recycle the ball" and start the probing over or recycle to switch direction of attack.
Its a modern phrase that has only really come to light in the last decade......i certainly wasn't being told by under age coaches back in my day to recycle the ball(80/90s).
I don't really tend to hear it until kids get to roughly about 14/15 at the earliest these days. | |
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| Be honest on 17:57 - Nov 16 with 832 views | onehunglow |
| Be honest on 17:45 - Nov 16 by magicdaps10 |
Of course.
Recycling the ball is a term that is used to look after the ball if there is no clear route to penentrate a defence or create a pass that gets you on the front foot.....if there is nothing on them you "recycle the ball" and start the probing over or recycle to switch direction of attack.
Its a modern phrase that has only really come to light in the last decade......i certainly wasn't being told by under age coaches back in my day to recycle the ball(80/90s).
I don't really tend to hear it until kids get to roughly about 14/15 at the earliest these days. |
Thanks. Thought as much.
I have new for you, the great teams of the past were doing just that,possibly none better than the likes of Sours circa 1961/2. John White,Dave Mackay ,Danny Blanchflower were doing it to perfection .
New terms mean nowt. | |
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| Be honest on 18:50 - Nov 16 with 810 views | magicdaps10 |
| Be honest on 17:57 - Nov 16 by onehunglow |
Thanks. Thought as much.
I have new for you, the great teams of the past were doing just that,possibly none better than the likes of Sours circa 1961/2. John White,Dave Mackay ,Danny Blanchflower were doing it to perfection .
New terms mean nowt. |
So what was the term used then OHL?
I think you might be getting the old pass and move muddled up with the recycling of football......Bobby Moore and Beckanbaur were the original ball playing defenders but that was more bringing the ball out from the back rather than playing it across the back.
Never play the ball across the 18yd box was a regular instruction back in the day. | |
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| Be honest on 21:20 - Nov 16 with 776 views | mart66 |
| Be honest on 15:39 - Nov 16 by magicdaps10 |
How far back can recycling the football in phrase go!?
One poster by all accounts stated they were doing it at 10yrs of age during the early 90s!
I beg to differ that it goes back decades, I can only go from my experience and unless the proof can be shown then recycling the ball is a new concept given how much football has changed in the last decade alone.
Football has evolved and many seem to see, want to see or understand that.........football has become far more than just getting the ball forward quicker, it's not quite as simple as you or others make out. |
A new concept? What? 
I’m 36 and I was doing so a quarter of a century ago. Recycling the ball means going forward and if nothing is on then instead of slamming it forward, going back again to retain possession. It’s not a complicated scenario, no idea why you keep talking about it.
Every club in the world does it and has done probably since the game began over 100 years ago, even the likes of Stoke in their long ball hay day did it, just less than others. It’s as prevalent as crossing the ball. It seems you have heard the phrase only recently and have decided to add it into every single post you make on football because for some reason you think it sounds good. It doesn’t.
I love the fact you think keeping possession is a new concept and decades ago if a team went forward and nothing was on then they would just shoot or slam it into touch. The Dutch teams of the 1970’s were masters of keeping the ball and finding other avenues if some were closed off.
Football is a very simple game indeed. | |
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| Be honest on 21:26 - Nov 16 with 766 views | mart66 |
| Be honest on 17:57 - Nov 16 by onehunglow |
Thanks. Thought as much.
I have new for you, the great teams of the past were doing just that,possibly none better than the likes of Sours circa 1961/2. John White,Dave Mackay ,Danny Blanchflower were doing it to perfection .
New terms mean nowt. |
I’ve told him this many times. Recycling the ball, turn out, switch the play, keep possession, go back… these phrases are all used for the same thing depending on where you are in the country and who is doing the coaching, this concept is 100 years old and seen in every single game… ever.
A bloke I know heard the term “perspicacious” recently, now uses it in every conversation he can, it sounds ridiculous. It seems “recycle the ball” is Daps’ “perspicacious”. | |
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| Be honest on 21:36 - Nov 16 with 759 views | magicdaps10 |
| Be honest on 21:20 - Nov 16 by mart66 |
A new concept? What?
I’m 36 and I was doing so a quarter of a century ago. Recycling the ball means going forward and if nothing is on then instead of slamming it forward, going back again to retain possession. It’s not a complicated scenario, no idea why you keep talking about it.
Every club in the world does it and has done probably since the game began over 100 years ago, even the likes of Stoke in their long ball hay day did it, just less than others. It’s as prevalent as crossing the ball. It seems you have heard the phrase only recently and have decided to add it into every single post you make on football because for some reason you think it sounds good. It doesn’t.
I love the fact you think keeping possession is a new concept and decades ago if a team went forward and nothing was on then they would just shoot or slam it into touch. The Dutch teams of the 1970’s were masters of keeping the ball and finding other avenues if some were closed off.
Football is a very simple game indeed. |
It's evolved so much since the 70s!
Seems you are struggling to understand it and for some reason are becoming very antagonising about the discussion and are going off a grown up way of discussing things.
Unfortunately I think I am going to file you in the DrP bin of being very incapable of discussing something without being patronising if it goes outside how you want it to be.
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| Be honest on 21:40 - Nov 16 with 756 views | mart66 |
| Be honest on 21:36 - Nov 16 by magicdaps10 |
It's evolved so much since the 70s!
Seems you are struggling to understand it and for some reason are becoming very antagonising about the discussion and are going off a grown up way of discussing things.
Unfortunately I think I am going to file you in the DrP bin of being very incapable of discussing something without being patronising if it goes outside how you want it to be.
👠|
What has evolved? Football as a whole has, sure. But the concepts are the same, people were heading the ball in the 1930’s and still do today, people were keeping possession if nothing was ahead in the 1930’s and still do today.
Which part do you think is antagonising? You telling us all we don’t understand very basic concepts? Maybe, I find it funny though.
Why do you believe this discussion goes outside what I want it to be? I think it’s wonderfully entertaining seeing you trying to explain that keeping the ball is a concept only invented in the last few years | |
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| Be honest on 21:47 - Nov 16 with 749 views | magicdaps10 |
| Be honest on 21:40 - Nov 16 by mart66 |
What has evolved? Football as a whole has, sure. But the concepts are the same, people were heading the ball in the 1930’s and still do today, people were keeping possession if nothing was ahead in the 1930’s and still do today.
Which part do you think is antagonising? You telling us all we don’t understand very basic concepts? Maybe, I find it funny though.
Why do you believe this discussion goes outside what I want it to be? I think it’s wonderfully entertaining seeing you trying to explain that keeping the ball is a concept only invented in the last few years |
Well well DrP has certainly evolved and clearly killed a thread with his bad attitude already under your new guise 🙈
Clearly coming on here is an addiction and a sport for your personal enjoyment. The hours you spend on here could be spent with your loved ones but clearly this site is more of a pull.
Enjoy spending hours on end on here 👠| |
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| Be honest on 21:49 - Nov 16 with 745 views | Catullus |
| Be honest on 17:45 - Nov 16 by magicdaps10 |
Of course.
Recycling the ball is a term that is used to look after the ball if there is no clear route to penentrate a defence or create a pass that gets you on the front foot.....if there is nothing on them you "recycle the ball" and start the probing over or recycle to switch direction of attack.
Its a modern phrase that has only really come to light in the last decade......i certainly wasn't being told by under age coaches back in my day to recycle the ball(80/90s).
I don't really tend to hear it until kids get to roughly about 14/15 at the earliest these days. |
I agree, the phrase itself is fairly new BUT the concept isn't. Back in the day we'd have been told to pass, to keep possession or win it back.
The basics in football haven't changed that much in a Century, pass, tackle, shoot....defend, attack. The styles and formations have changed as has some of the terminology, for recycling see reset and start again.
There is a general idea that is valid today as it was a Century ago, pace hurts the oppo, pace scares defenders, it unlocks defences and creates chances whether that be a player like Dan james or the ability to move the ball quickly and accurately. "Martinball" is a poor mans "Guardiolaball", the same basic style just with less pace and accuracy (or more mistakes) and with the best will in the world many of our players cannot be improved enough to be good enough to play "Guardiolaball". | |
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| Be honest on 22:10 - Nov 16 with 738 views | mart66 |
| Be honest on 21:49 - Nov 16 by Catullus |
I agree, the phrase itself is fairly new BUT the concept isn't. Back in the day we'd have been told to pass, to keep possession or win it back.
The basics in football haven't changed that much in a Century, pass, tackle, shoot....defend, attack. The styles and formations have changed as has some of the terminology, for recycling see reset and start again.
There is a general idea that is valid today as it was a Century ago, pace hurts the oppo, pace scares defenders, it unlocks defences and creates chances whether that be a player like Dan james or the ability to move the ball quickly and accurately. "Martinball" is a poor mans "Guardiolaball", the same basic style just with less pace and accuracy (or more mistakes) and with the best will in the world many of our players cannot be improved enough to be good enough to play "Guardiolaball". |
Don’t confuse him.
Keeping the ball if nothing is on has only been done in the last few years he reckons.
I’d like to think he’s joking, but he’s clearly not.  | |
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| Be honest on 09:56 - Nov 17 with 683 views | onehunglow |
| Be honest on 18:50 - Nov 16 by magicdaps10 |
So what was the term used then OHL?
I think you might be getting the old pass and move muddled up with the recycling of football......Bobby Moore and Beckanbaur were the original ball playing defenders but that was more bringing the ball out from the back rather than playing it across the back.
Never play the ball across the 18yd box was a regular instruction back in the day. |
The term used was football.
Centre halves number 5 booted the ball and the centre forward ,number 9 who normally bashed the goalkeeper in the green woollen jersey who then whacked him in return. They called that football.
The 4 and 6 numbered chaps tackled and passed the ball to the numbers 8 and 10 who sprayed th3 ball around at befitting the play.
Then the 7 and 11 chaps ran passed opponents centred the ball for the number 9 to whack the ball into the net.
It wasn’t too bad and more exciting than what we see now with the ball going backwards when we are supposed to be attacking because we are losing the game .
Glad to help | |
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| Be honest on 10:30 - Nov 17 with 676 views | magicdaps10 |
| Be honest on 09:56 - Nov 17 by onehunglow |
The term used was football.
Centre halves number 5 booted the ball and the centre forward ,number 9 who normally bashed the goalkeeper in the green woollen jersey who then whacked him in return. They called that football.
The 4 and 6 numbered chaps tackled and passed the ball to the numbers 8 and 10 who sprayed th3 ball around at befitting the play.
Then the 7 and 11 chaps ran passed opponents centred the ball for the number 9 to whack the ball into the net.
It wasn’t too bad and more exciting than what we see now with the ball going backwards when we are supposed to be attacking because we are losing the game .
Glad to help |
Unfortunately for yourself and others who are fond of that type of football, football has evolved since then but as you say, the centre half was there to defend, clear their lines and hump it up field or safe......it would be foreign to the old school players who witness what defenders have to do today.
I will say this, defenders who can defend and put the ball safe has been an issue with our defenders and I would like to see that instilled a bit more in to them, defending when needed with the passing that has been encouraged back into them is a good recipe for me.
Its been poor defending rather than too much possession that has cost us points this season OHL. | |
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| Be honest on 10:34 - Nov 17 with 674 views | builthjack |
Congratulations on getting married in the time it took Dr P to turn into Mart66. | |
| Swansea Indepenent Poster Of The Year 2021. Dr P / Mart66 / Roathie / Parlay / E20/ Duffle was 2nd, but he is deluded and thinks in his little twisted brain that he won. Poor sod. We let him win this year, as he has cried for a whole year. His 14 usernames, bless his cotton socks.
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| Be honest on 11:57 - Nov 17 with 661 views | onehunglow |
| Be honest on 10:30 - Nov 17 by magicdaps10 |
Unfortunately for yourself and others who are fond of that type of football, football has evolved since then but as you say, the centre half was there to defend, clear their lines and hump it up field or safe......it would be foreign to the old school players who witness what defenders have to do today.
I will say this, defenders who can defend and put the ball safe has been an issue with our defenders and I would like to see that instilled a bit more in to them, defending when needed with the passing that has been encouraged back into them is a good recipe for me.
Its been poor defending rather than too much possession that has cost us points this season OHL. |
And centre forwards there to do what.
Wingers too
Defenders primary job is in their job title as is
Goalkeeper
You didn’t watch Billy Wright play did you ?
John Charles too could “ play” anyway you say | |
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| Be honest on 15:36 - Nov 17 with 646 views | magicdaps10 |
| Be honest on 11:57 - Nov 17 by onehunglow |
And centre forwards there to do what.
Wingers too
Defenders primary job is in their job title as is
Goalkeeper
You didn’t watch Billy Wright play did you ?
John Charles too could “ play” anyway you say |
No, bit young to have seen Billy Wright.
John Charles was a monster in both areas with his head. A lot of old principles have been taken away from the game with tackling being one.....its the evolution of football.
Ball playing defenders are not the same thing as defenders recycling the ball, as keeping hold of the ball isn't the same thing also....i can see how it can be seen that way and/or used as an example of the same thing but the same it is not.
Some of the old things in the game of football have been eradicated or are dying out.....not for the best may I add. | |
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| Be honest on 20:03 - Nov 17 with 631 views | onehunglow |
| Be honest on 15:36 - Nov 17 by magicdaps10 |
No, bit young to have seen Billy Wright.
John Charles was a monster in both areas with his head. A lot of old principles have been taken away from the game with tackling being one.....its the evolution of football.
Ball playing defenders are not the same thing as defenders recycling the ball, as keeping hold of the ball isn't the same thing also....i can see how it can be seen that way and/or used as an example of the same thing but the same it is not.
Some of the old things in the game of football have been eradicated or are dying out.....not for the best may I add. |
Good exchange
Well done | |
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| Be honest on 20:35 - Nov 17 with 626 views | mart66 |
| Be honest on 10:30 - Nov 17 by magicdaps10 |
Unfortunately for yourself and others who are fond of that type of football, football has evolved since then but as you say, the centre half was there to defend, clear their lines and hump it up field or safe......it would be foreign to the old school players who witness what defenders have to do today.
I will say this, defenders who can defend and put the ball safe has been an issue with our defenders and I would like to see that instilled a bit more in to them, defending when needed with the passing that has been encouraged back into them is a good recipe for me.
Its been poor defending rather than too much possession that has cost us points this season OHL. |
What type of football? Do you not think Holland played possession football with the likes of Cruyff then? What do you think they did when they went forward and an avenue was blocked off?
Yep, recycle the ball.
That was before you or I were born. | |
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| Be honest on 22:42 - Nov 17 with 588 views | RichardO |
It's nice to see a team playing a system that gets results consistently with quality players but teams with good managers work out a way to beat that system, it is called adapting, playing a system which stifles and find the weaknesses of any system.
Systems of play, come and go but there are still 11 against 11, quality players help win games but adapting when needed is key, poor first half good coaches adapt the system of play to get better results.
Sometimes a player on the pitch knows if he has got the beating of the players around him and must be given permission to use that knowledge. | | | |
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