By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions. We in turn value your personal details in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
The rush to battery powered cars over hydrogen power is crazy.
Hydrogen is almost infinitely available, is easy to transport, the infrastructure basically already exists and vehicles can be refuelled in minutes as opposed to hours. If the level of investment seen in electric vehicles had been spent on working out how to produce useable hydrogen more cheaply we'd have achieved it already.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
0
Hydrogen...it's coming on 09:08 - Apr 5 with 1349 views
Hydrogen...it's coming on 09:04 - Apr 5 by Dr_Winston
The rush to battery powered cars over hydrogen power is crazy.
Hydrogen is almost infinitely available, is easy to transport, the infrastructure basically already exists and vehicles can be refuelled in minutes as opposed to hours. If the level of investment seen in electric vehicles had been spent on working out how to produce useable hydrogen more cheaply we'd have achieved it already.
They'd spent so much trying to get electric to work they didn't want to give up, now they are busy trying to scam us into buying electric so they can get that "investment" back.
1
Hydrogen...it's coming on 11:34 - Apr 5 with 1313 views
Hydrogen...it's coming on 09:04 - Apr 5 by Dr_Winston
The rush to battery powered cars over hydrogen power is crazy.
Hydrogen is almost infinitely available, is easy to transport, the infrastructure basically already exists and vehicles can be refuelled in minutes as opposed to hours. If the level of investment seen in electric vehicles had been spent on working out how to produce useable hydrogen more cheaply we'd have achieved it already.
It takes more energy to split water into oxygen and hydrogen than burning hydrogen to either produce electricity or to power a vehicle. Simple science otherwise you would have discovered perpetual motion which scientist have yet to discover.
You can either use the power of the sun to turn wind turbines or generate electricity via solar panels. The electricity generated can then be used to power EV or split water to create hydrogen that vehicles can than burn.
It takes more energy to split water into oxygen and hydrogen than burning hydrogen to either produce electricity or to power a vehicle. Simple science otherwise you would have discovered perpetual motion which scientist have yet to discover.
You can either use the power of the sun to turn wind turbines or generate electricity via solar panels. The electricity generated can then be used to power EV or split water to create hydrogen that vehicles can than burn.
There are many ways of producing hydrogen from many sources, some of them potentially very efficient. Electrolysis especially. Unfortunately all the interest and funding has gone towards battery vehicles, which are expensive and environmentally damaging to produce and maintain, take hours to charge, require billions in subsidy to provide infrastructure for, and still have to be charged via a creaky grid supplied by nuclear or gas powered means. A grid which could be much more efficiently utilised to produce hydrogen.
You'd have to plaster the country in wind turbines for them to be anything other than a minor source of power.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
0
Hydrogen...it's coming on 12:11 - Apr 5 with 1296 views
Hydrogen...it's coming on 11:52 - Apr 5 by Dr_Winston
There are many ways of producing hydrogen from many sources, some of them potentially very efficient. Electrolysis especially. Unfortunately all the interest and funding has gone towards battery vehicles, which are expensive and environmentally damaging to produce and maintain, take hours to charge, require billions in subsidy to provide infrastructure for, and still have to be charged via a creaky grid supplied by nuclear or gas powered means. A grid which could be much more efficiently utilised to produce hydrogen.
You'd have to plaster the country in wind turbines for them to be anything other than a minor source of power.
Electrolysis as you mention uses electricity and use more electricity to split water than energy created when you burn Hydrogen to power vehicles. If you go down the hydrogen path you will need even more wind turbines to produce electricity to split water than you currently use to power EV.
Hydrogen...it's coming on 11:52 - Apr 5 by Dr_Winston
There are many ways of producing hydrogen from many sources, some of them potentially very efficient. Electrolysis especially. Unfortunately all the interest and funding has gone towards battery vehicles, which are expensive and environmentally damaging to produce and maintain, take hours to charge, require billions in subsidy to provide infrastructure for, and still have to be charged via a creaky grid supplied by nuclear or gas powered means. A grid which could be much more efficiently utilised to produce hydrogen.
You'd have to plaster the country in wind turbines for them to be anything other than a minor source of power.
Just out of interest, I'm sure that I was reading the other week that the existing gas distribution pipelines would quickly get corroded by hydrogen.
Do you know anything on this subject?
0
Hydrogen...it's coming on 13:55 - Apr 5 with 1252 views
Hydrogen...it's coming on 13:18 - Apr 5 by BarrySwan
Just out of interest, I'm sure that I was reading the other week that the existing gas distribution pipelines would quickly get corroded by hydrogen.
Do you know anything on this subject?
I don't think hydrogen itself is corrosive. The problem with hydrogen is storage. It has to be kept at extremely high pressures and we are limited in these kind of vessels.If you see hydrogen storage, it's usually made up of dozens of specialised cylindrical tanks: very expensive. I'm not sure how this could be adapted to vehicles
There are many problems with Hydrogen. It is expensive to produce. It is wasteful to produce, much more energy goes in than you end up with. It is highly explosive and highly inflameable. It is very hard to stop it leaking due to it's molecular size. It needs to be stored at very high pressures. It causes hydrogen imbrittlement in steel. It has less energy than other fuels. https://h2tools.org/bestpracti
0
Hydrogen...it's coming on 17:02 - Apr 5 with 1191 views
Electrolysis as you mention uses electricity and use more electricity to split water than energy created when you burn Hydrogen to power vehicles. If you go down the hydrogen path you will need even more wind turbines to produce electricity to split water than you currently use to power EV.
A good example of what I'm talking about and one Felix could have found for himself with about 30 seconds of Googling.
It takes no real stretch of the imagination to consider that if the time and money pissed away on electric cars had been directed to hydrogen we'd be much further along.
EV is fine for those who only drive in cities and have access to charging points at home. Not much use for anyone else. I'd expect massive sales of new or nearly new cars as we get close to 2030. People will do their best to maintain ICE vehicles for as long as possible rather than go electric.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
0
Hydrogen...it's coming on 17:29 - Apr 5 with 1171 views
Hydrogen...it's coming on 17:15 - Apr 5 by Dr_Winston
A good example of what I'm talking about and one Felix could have found for himself with about 30 seconds of Googling.
It takes no real stretch of the imagination to consider that if the time and money pissed away on electric cars had been directed to hydrogen we'd be much further along.
EV is fine for those who only drive in cities and have access to charging points at home. Not much use for anyone else. I'd expect massive sales of new or nearly new cars as we get close to 2030. People will do their best to maintain ICE vehicles for as long as possible rather than go electric.
I rarely use my car anymore, I get picked up and dropped off every working day or I get to bring a van home BUT in 7 years I hope to retire, a tad early maybe but I hope, and then goodbye car.
It might be an electric bike then!
0
Hydrogen...it's coming on 18:33 - Apr 5 with 1153 views
I rarely use my car anymore, I get picked up and dropped off every working day or I get to bring a van home BUT in 7 years I hope to retire, a tad early maybe but I hope, and then goodbye car.
It might be an electric bike then!
I only started driving fairly recently so I've got 20+ years to catch up on. I might go hybrid with the next one but there's not a chance in hell that I'll ever go full EV or ditch the car completely. Got too many places I want to see in the UK.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
0
Hydrogen...it's coming on 20:03 - Apr 5 with 1125 views
Hydrogen...it's coming on 17:15 - Apr 5 by Dr_Winston
A good example of what I'm talking about and one Felix could have found for himself with about 30 seconds of Googling.
It takes no real stretch of the imagination to consider that if the time and money pissed away on electric cars had been directed to hydrogen we'd be much further along.
EV is fine for those who only drive in cities and have access to charging points at home. Not much use for anyone else. I'd expect massive sales of new or nearly new cars as we get close to 2030. People will do their best to maintain ICE vehicles for as long as possible rather than go electric.
Except that is not the real world, it may be the future. Here is the real world, where yet again we have Hydrogen, which as far as I can find out pays no Fuel duty and costs 17.4pence/mile compared to a 40mpg car which costs 16.3pence/mile. Or about 10 pence/mile if you didn't pay fuel duty. So a 55mpg Diesel would be far cheaper again. https://www.standard.co.uk/lif or https://www.autoweek.com/drive
But you still have the same problem as EVs, there is very little infrastructure for Hydrogen filling and it will cost an absolute fortune to change all the petrol pumps over to hydrogen.
0
Hydrogen...it's coming on 20:21 - Apr 5 with 1103 views
Hydrogen...it's coming on 20:03 - Apr 5 by A_Fans_Dad
Except that is not the real world, it may be the future. Here is the real world, where yet again we have Hydrogen, which as far as I can find out pays no Fuel duty and costs 17.4pence/mile compared to a 40mpg car which costs 16.3pence/mile. Or about 10 pence/mile if you didn't pay fuel duty. So a 55mpg Diesel would be far cheaper again. https://www.standard.co.uk/lif or https://www.autoweek.com/drive
But you still have the same problem as EVs, there is very little infrastructure for Hydrogen filling and it will cost an absolute fortune to change all the petrol pumps over to hydrogen.
*Sigh*
I'll say it again. Third time. Maybe in capitals so it'll register.
IF THEY'D SPENT AS MUCH TIME AND MONEY ON HYDROGEN INSTEAD OF WASTING IT ON BATTERY POWERED CARS WE'D BE MUCH FURTHER ALONG THAN WE ARE NOW.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
0
Hydrogen...it's coming (n/t) on 10:01 - Apr 6 with 1023 views
Hydrogen...it's coming on 20:21 - Apr 5 by Dr_Winston
*Sigh*
I'll say it again. Third time. Maybe in capitals so it'll register.
IF THEY'D SPENT AS MUCH TIME AND MONEY ON HYDROGEN INSTEAD OF WASTING IT ON BATTERY POWERED CARS WE'D BE MUCH FURTHER ALONG THAN WE ARE NOW.
If you insist on shouting. WHY WOULD WE WANT TO? WHY DO YOU WANT TO PAY A LOT MORE FOR YOUR TRANSPORT? WHY DO YOU WANT TO WASTE EXPENSIVE ENERGY MAKING SOMETHING THAT IS LESS USEFUL?
[Post edited 6 Apr 2023 10:05]
0
Hydrogen...it's coming (n/t) on 10:42 - Apr 6 with 1012 views
Hydrogen...it's coming (n/t) on 10:01 - Apr 6 by A_Fans_Dad
If you insist on shouting. WHY WOULD WE WANT TO? WHY DO YOU WANT TO PAY A LOT MORE FOR YOUR TRANSPORT? WHY DO YOU WANT TO WASTE EXPENSIVE ENERGY MAKING SOMETHING THAT IS LESS USEFUL?
[Post edited 6 Apr 2023 10:05]
Unfortunately he can't answer that. We need an expert to cost how much hydrogen would cost to produce, how efficient burning hydrogen to power cars is. Once that is done we can compare the cost per mile for petrol?, diesel, hydroge, Electric Vehicles powered from grid and Electric Vehicles power from home solar panels.
Hydrogen...it's coming (n/t) on 10:42 - Apr 6 by felixstowe_jack
Unfortunately he can't answer that. We need an expert to cost how much hydrogen would cost to produce, how efficient burning hydrogen to power cars is. Once that is done we can compare the cost per mile for petrol?, diesel, hydroge, Electric Vehicles powered from grid and Electric Vehicles power from home solar panels.
So you didn't bother to read the links that I posted which give real world figures for a Hydrogen powered car before posting. As to wastefulness read this https://phys.org/news/2006-12-
0
Hydrogen...it's coming (n/t) on 12:34 - Apr 6 with 982 views
Hydrogen...it's coming (n/t) on 12:32 - Apr 6 by A_Fans_Dad
So you didn't bother to read the links that I posted which give real world figures for a Hydrogen powered car before posting. As to wastefulness read this https://phys.org/news/2006-12-
There is no real alternative to fossil fuels
0
Hydrogen...it's coming (n/t) on 13:19 - Apr 6 with 979 views
Hydrogen...it's coming (n/t) on 10:01 - Apr 6 by A_Fans_Dad
If you insist on shouting. WHY WOULD WE WANT TO? WHY DO YOU WANT TO PAY A LOT MORE FOR YOUR TRANSPORT? WHY DO YOU WANT TO WASTE EXPENSIVE ENERGY MAKING SOMETHING THAT IS LESS USEFUL?
[Post edited 6 Apr 2023 10:05]
Seeing as you clearly haven't understood...
IF we'd spent as much on hydrogen then we'd be mufurther along....that means that we may have the means to produce hydrogen much more cheaply and maybe the infrastructure for it wuld be started too ( as it is for electric) and as a result we wouldn't have all this expensive mining for rare resources which is seeing the exploitation of workers in poor countries (uncluding children) and is doing huge ecological damage too. On top of that the batteries don't give the promised mileage AND wear out affter 10 years ( though given the lying the've done about range 5 years may be a possibility) AND they need recycling because if not handled properly they will cause very harmful pollution too.
I'm all for trying to make the planet a better place for our children, we need to do more (not the UK, what we do is pointless in the face of China, Russia, India and the USA's pollution output) but when what we do is itself quite possibly pointless AND as harnful as what we are replacing nit to forget how expensive it is for everybody, then WHY?
The only answer to that that I can find is, we are being deliberately ripped off by our own governments while they continue to "help" their rich and powerful friends.
0
Hydrogen...it's coming on 13:21 - Apr 6 with 979 views
I rarely use my car anymore, I get picked up and dropped off every working day or I get to bring a van home BUT in 7 years I hope to retire, a tad early maybe but I hope, and then goodbye car.
It might be an electric bike then!
It’s hard to ram the family onto an electric bike for holibobs
Hydrogen...it's coming on 13:21 - Apr 6 by onehunglow
It’s hard to ram the family onto an electric bike for holibobs
That's true BUT there are plenty of airport travel firms around which is both easier and less expensive than paying for a car you rarely use.
I do less than 2k per year at the moment, our car is sat outside and doesn't move most days. That's 300 quid for insurance and the cost of tax and MOT, it still has to be serviced.
0
Hydrogen...it's coming (n/t) on 14:18 - Apr 6 with 972 views
Hydrogen...it's coming (n/t) on 13:19 - Apr 6 by SullutaCreturned
Seeing as you clearly haven't understood...
IF we'd spent as much on hydrogen then we'd be mufurther along....that means that we may have the means to produce hydrogen much more cheaply and maybe the infrastructure for it wuld be started too ( as it is for electric) and as a result we wouldn't have all this expensive mining for rare resources which is seeing the exploitation of workers in poor countries (uncluding children) and is doing huge ecological damage too. On top of that the batteries don't give the promised mileage AND wear out affter 10 years ( though given the lying the've done about range 5 years may be a possibility) AND they need recycling because if not handled properly they will cause very harmful pollution too.
I'm all for trying to make the planet a better place for our children, we need to do more (not the UK, what we do is pointless in the face of China, Russia, India and the USA's pollution output) but when what we do is itself quite possibly pointless AND as harnful as what we are replacing nit to forget how expensive it is for everybody, then WHY?
The only answer to that that I can find is, we are being deliberately ripped off by our own governments while they continue to "help" their rich and powerful friends.
Oh, I understand completely, you are under the impression that physics , mechanics and economics can be ignored in favour of something new that the green brigade are advocating. Well I am a realist, if it wastes energy, is less economic than the original energy, more expensive than current fuels and provides less range per fill up, is dangrous to boot and all before you add Fuel Duty I say it is a waste of time, energy and money to even go there in the first place. You forget my background, Ford Motors were working on Hydrogen powered cars back in 1990s and that millions, if not billions have already been spent on it by many motor manufacturers. You guys still can't see that if it is competitively no further along after 40 years of development it is not for lack of effort.
Why not use LPG which is clean, currently available and uses ordinary engine technology? It is also far cheaper than petrol or diesel because it also doesn't have fuel duty applied.
I agree with all your points about governments and manufacturers ripping us off.
0
Hydrogen...it's coming on 14:26 - Apr 6 with 968 views
That's true BUT there are plenty of airport travel firms around which is both easier and less expensive than paying for a car you rarely use.
I do less than 2k per year at the moment, our car is sat outside and doesn't move most days. That's 300 quid for insurance and the cost of tax and MOT, it still has to be serviced.
airport taxi for us is £150 return . Car Park. Is £75 quid. Fuel will be about 12 quid . Wifey has sisters in various place and public transport would be ludicrous. Car still gives independence It’s not easy to find a bus to take you to Welsh Wales for some textile free swimming ,with a nice picnic tucked away in a cool box in the boot.
Hydrogen...it's coming (n/t) on 12:32 - Apr 6 by A_Fans_Dad
So you didn't bother to read the links that I posted which give real world figures for a Hydrogen powered car before posting. As to wastefulness read this https://phys.org/news/2006-12-
Thanks just confirms what I said along that Hydrogen is expensive and impractical. Not sure when you posted the link and did not see it. You were only agreeing with my points anyway
I am happy with my EV which is charged by my solar panels and I only need to charge from the grid at motorway service stations on long trips from Felixstowe to Swansea . Just one charge need takes about 45 minutes as I have a coffee and a rest halfway on my 290 mile journey. I usually go by train on that trip but have usef the car more this do to train strikes.
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
