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It's very obvious he's got an issue with foreign players.
- He took against Sylla right from the start. - Banged on about Sylla & Yenni's English when everyone knows in this day and age in football it's not the most important thing - He also seemed to be genuinely surprised Wszolek was good - like he had presumed a foreign player couldn't be good. Kept mentioning how amazing it was that he could come in and have good relationship with a bloke from Poland. Now he's dropped him. - He binned off Polter - He binned off Chery - Both Chery and Polter seemed eager to leave after about a month under Ollie too. Coincidence? - He binned off Borsyiuk
In fact there isn't a single player in the team who doesn't speak English as a first language. Very unusual in today's football.
Gino Padula was the closest thing we had to foreign player last time round he took and age to give him ago despite that face he was playing well in the reserves. Also Gino had been at Walsall.
Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 07:38 - Feb 1 by BazzaInTheLoft
Are we really upset that a QPR manager is playing too many young British player and not enough imports?
I always considered this a good thing.
Also, what part of this green and pleasant land is Paweł Wszołek from? He's had fifty games under Holloway.
[Post edited 1 Feb 2018 7:41]
Think point from original post was more about making a choice based on whether the player is English or not. Players should be chosen on their foootball not where they come from. Not only is that the right thing to do but it’s surely the best policy for qpr.
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Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 09:37 - Feb 1 with 3056 views
Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 22:59 - Jan 31 by WestbourneR
Danny Shittu foreign??? He moved to England when he was 7 years old. I'll leave that there.
And Smegma - if you're going to dismiss me at least do me the favour of explaining what evidence you have that I am totally wrong and 'speaking out of my deriere'?
[Post edited 31 Jan 2018 23:07]
"In fact there isn't a single player in the team who doesn't speak English as a first language. Very unusual in today's football."
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Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 09:44 - Feb 1 with 3039 views
Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 09:30 - Feb 1 by JamesB1979
Think point from original post was more about making a choice based on whether the player is English or not. Players should be chosen on their foootball not where they come from. Not only is that the right thing to do but it’s surely the best policy for qpr.
not sure that is happening though, which foreign player is being left out or sold for non football reasons.
Said before it's an odd thread and a bit of a character assassination of a very decent human being who has done a lot for QPR over the last 20/30 years
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Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 10:24 - Feb 1 with 2976 views
Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 10:15 - Feb 1 by daveB
not sure that is happening though, which foreign player is being left out or sold for non football reasons.
Said before it's an odd thread and a bit of a character assassination of a very decent human being who has done a lot for QPR over the last 20/30 years
I think it’s partly driven by what he and bircham have said. Not saying I agree with the original post but I also don’t think it should be disregarded. I’m on the fence on this one.
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Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 10:39 - Feb 1 with 2959 views
Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 10:24 - Feb 1 by JamesB1979
I think it’s partly driven by what he and bircham have said. Not saying I agree with the original post but I also don’t think it should be disregarded. I’m on the fence on this one.
All they've said is they wanted an English/British core to the dressing room and players who know the league, a lot of foreign players who come over find the league very different and struggle to adapt.
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Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 11:44 - Feb 1 with 2855 views
King Warnock doesn't buy many foreign players and he hasn't done to bad , perhaps its an old school manager thing but if you look at the foreign players we have or have had since Ollie the standard hasn't been that brilliant
Polter was very overrated because he ran about a lot in fact a actually think smith is better Cherry- again overrated , didn't want to be here and got offered more money elsewhere
Pavel should be in the team as a winger in a 4-4-2
Sylla- very inconsistent but Ollie has played him
Ariel - not very good and light weight
Yenni - wasn't a winger, wasn't a striker , looked like a matchstick he made Sammy koejoe look like tierry henry
I would look at our scouting of these players more than anything Olly has done
And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 12:13 - Feb 1 with 2805 views
Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 10:51 - Feb 1 by daveB
All they've said is they wanted an English/British core to the dressing room and players who know the league, a lot of foreign players who come over find the league very different and struggle to adapt.
it's this kind of thing that gets me. When a British player fails, he's just not good enough. When a foreign player fails, it's because 'he can't adapt to the British game' - what utter crap, I'm sorry. They might fail because they're not good enough, but it's got nothing to do with some mythical difference about the incredible English leagues. Hundreds of overseas players have thrived over here - how many British players, in comparison, have thrived elsewhere? This is where I think Westbourne has a bit of a point. There is a bit of a bias against foreign players in this country - a subtle one, but it's there, and it may not even be meant in a nasty way - it's just ingrained thinking. 20-25 years ago, people were saying Scandinavians could do well here as the culture is similar, but there was a feeling others couldn't. That's been blown out of the water by everyone from Tevez to Sanchez to Alonso to any number of Africans, South Americans and south Europeans since. Yet still the bias persists. A similar bias is when you routinely hear a young black player described as 'raw' - an adjective very, very, very rarely applied to a young white player. It's not supposed to be a negative thing to say, but when you notice the frequency that it's applied to one race ahead of another, you realise there's something to it - there's an undercurrent there of 'well, he's very athletic, but the brains aren't quite there yet' - an uncomfortable echo of what Ron Noades said all those years ago.
Bare bones.
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Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 12:17 - Feb 1 with 2797 views
Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 12:13 - Feb 1 by Antti_Heinola
it's this kind of thing that gets me. When a British player fails, he's just not good enough. When a foreign player fails, it's because 'he can't adapt to the British game' - what utter crap, I'm sorry. They might fail because they're not good enough, but it's got nothing to do with some mythical difference about the incredible English leagues. Hundreds of overseas players have thrived over here - how many British players, in comparison, have thrived elsewhere? This is where I think Westbourne has a bit of a point. There is a bit of a bias against foreign players in this country - a subtle one, but it's there, and it may not even be meant in a nasty way - it's just ingrained thinking. 20-25 years ago, people were saying Scandinavians could do well here as the culture is similar, but there was a feeling others couldn't. That's been blown out of the water by everyone from Tevez to Sanchez to Alonso to any number of Africans, South Americans and south Europeans since. Yet still the bias persists. A similar bias is when you routinely hear a young black player described as 'raw' - an adjective very, very, very rarely applied to a young white player. It's not supposed to be a negative thing to say, but when you notice the frequency that it's applied to one race ahead of another, you realise there's something to it - there's an undercurrent there of 'well, he's very athletic, but the brains aren't quite there yet' - an uncomfortable echo of what Ron Noades said all those years ago.
not saying every foreign player who doesn't work out was due to not adapting to the English game but that is the case with some of them, it is very different to other countries mainly due to how direct the game is and how many games we play. I'd agree British players don't adapt well abroad either but I don't think managers in France and Spain are racist as they never sign english players.
I'm a bit lost on the raw bit, i've always thought that meant the player has ability but is prone to making mistakes and the wrong decision at times , I'd called PauL Smyth raw at the moment just as much as Eze is raw, wasn't aware it was a race thing.
I just feel a bit uncomfortable at the accusation that Holloway is basically racist and picking and selling players based on nationality which is what is being implied, i think that is absolute nonsense and very unfair on Holloway. It's classic QPR trying to find problems where there isn't one
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Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 14:02 - Feb 1 with 2696 views
Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 12:13 - Feb 1 by Antti_Heinola
it's this kind of thing that gets me. When a British player fails, he's just not good enough. When a foreign player fails, it's because 'he can't adapt to the British game' - what utter crap, I'm sorry. They might fail because they're not good enough, but it's got nothing to do with some mythical difference about the incredible English leagues. Hundreds of overseas players have thrived over here - how many British players, in comparison, have thrived elsewhere? This is where I think Westbourne has a bit of a point. There is a bit of a bias against foreign players in this country - a subtle one, but it's there, and it may not even be meant in a nasty way - it's just ingrained thinking. 20-25 years ago, people were saying Scandinavians could do well here as the culture is similar, but there was a feeling others couldn't. That's been blown out of the water by everyone from Tevez to Sanchez to Alonso to any number of Africans, South Americans and south Europeans since. Yet still the bias persists. A similar bias is when you routinely hear a young black player described as 'raw' - an adjective very, very, very rarely applied to a young white player. It's not supposed to be a negative thing to say, but when you notice the frequency that it's applied to one race ahead of another, you realise there's something to it - there's an undercurrent there of 'well, he's very athletic, but the brains aren't quite there yet' - an uncomfortable echo of what Ron Noades said all those years ago.
There's no doubt a prejudice, I just don't think there's any evidence to level this at Ollie. The examples of Chery and Poulter have no basis.
Didn't Clark Carlisle do a BBC docu on this that showed very few asain players progress, even fewer into coaching? So it exists certainly. The link to the West Ham report today further suggests so, if accurate.
I just don't think it can be levelled at Ollie.
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Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 14:38 - Feb 1 with 2650 views
Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 12:13 - Feb 1 by Antti_Heinola
it's this kind of thing that gets me. When a British player fails, he's just not good enough. When a foreign player fails, it's because 'he can't adapt to the British game' - what utter crap, I'm sorry. They might fail because they're not good enough, but it's got nothing to do with some mythical difference about the incredible English leagues. Hundreds of overseas players have thrived over here - how many British players, in comparison, have thrived elsewhere? This is where I think Westbourne has a bit of a point. There is a bit of a bias against foreign players in this country - a subtle one, but it's there, and it may not even be meant in a nasty way - it's just ingrained thinking. 20-25 years ago, people were saying Scandinavians could do well here as the culture is similar, but there was a feeling others couldn't. That's been blown out of the water by everyone from Tevez to Sanchez to Alonso to any number of Africans, South Americans and south Europeans since. Yet still the bias persists. A similar bias is when you routinely hear a young black player described as 'raw' - an adjective very, very, very rarely applied to a young white player. It's not supposed to be a negative thing to say, but when you notice the frequency that it's applied to one race ahead of another, you realise there's something to it - there's an undercurrent there of 'well, he's very athletic, but the brains aren't quite there yet' - an uncomfortable echo of what Ron Noades said all those years ago.
On the foreign players though, you can't underestimate how difficult it is for some people to settle in a foreign country. Does the style of play affect them? Maybe in some cases but good players should be able to adapt. The bigger issue is that you are sent to another country, where you don't no anybody, with minimal notice, and expected to learn a new club, a new league, and a new culture at the same time. In the case of non English speakers, you can't even communicate with your team mates, or your manager, without the help of a translator. So not a shock that some of them don't exactly look like world beaters.
Ultimately it should be a trade off, if they are significantly better players than the alternatives, that should be enough to offset the language barriers. But for managers whose strongest asset is their motivational ability (Holloway, Warnock etc) then they are more hamstrung by a players inability to speak English than a manager like Guardiola whose strongest asset is his tactical ability.
And yes, I realize that the perfect manager does both, but a perfect manager isn't walking in the door at loftus road any time soon
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Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 21:51 - Feb 1 with 2519 views
Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 11:57 - Feb 1 by paulparker
King Warnock doesn't buy many foreign players and he hasn't done to bad , perhaps its an old school manager thing but if you look at the foreign players we have or have had since Ollie the standard hasn't been that brilliant
Polter was very overrated because he ran about a lot in fact a actually think smith is better Cherry- again overrated , didn't want to be here and got offered more money elsewhere
Pavel should be in the team as a winger in a 4-4-2
Sylla- very inconsistent but Ollie has played him
Ariel - not very good and light weight
Yenni - wasn't a winger, wasn't a striker , looked like a matchstick he made Sammy koejoe look like tierry henry
I would look at our scouting of these players more than anything Olly has done
Is the correct answer. I'd go further and say both Ariel and Yenni are two bob.
Similar things were said about Ray Harford over 20 years ago when he played an all white team. ONCE.
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Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 09:16 - Feb 2 with 2399 views
Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 07:50 - Feb 2 by smegma
Is the correct answer. I'd go further and say both Ariel and Yenni are two bob.
Similar things were said about Ray Harford over 20 years ago when he played an all white team. ONCE.
Similar things were said about Ray Harford over 20 years ago when he played an all white team. ONCE.
which was confirmed by Rufus Brevett to me one night just after he had been transferred to Fulham
And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 10:36 - Feb 2 with 2363 views
Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 14:38 - Feb 1 by Match82
On the foreign players though, you can't underestimate how difficult it is for some people to settle in a foreign country. Does the style of play affect them? Maybe in some cases but good players should be able to adapt. The bigger issue is that you are sent to another country, where you don't no anybody, with minimal notice, and expected to learn a new club, a new league, and a new culture at the same time. In the case of non English speakers, you can't even communicate with your team mates, or your manager, without the help of a translator. So not a shock that some of them don't exactly look like world beaters.
Ultimately it should be a trade off, if they are significantly better players than the alternatives, that should be enough to offset the language barriers. But for managers whose strongest asset is their motivational ability (Holloway, Warnock etc) then they are more hamstrung by a players inability to speak English than a manager like Guardiola whose strongest asset is his tactical ability.
And yes, I realize that the perfect manager does both, but a perfect manager isn't walking in the door at loftus road any time soon
Versatile as an egg homesick Ned Zelic 'obviously for him' the only Aussie who couldn't adapt to the strange alien Shepherd's Bush culture.
[Post edited 2 Feb 2018 10:38]
'I'm 18 with a bullet.Got my finger on the trigger,I'm gonna pull it.."
Love,Peace and Fook Chelski!
More like 20StoneOfHoop now.
Let's face it I'm not getting any thinner.
Pass the cake and pies please.
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Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 10:39 - Feb 2 with 2345 views
this is a very obscure and unrelated point, but as a strategy, buying continental players in the summer after brexit was kind of dumb
the pound tanked by about 25% that summer. we were buying players like Ariel and Yeni, whose clubs probably wanted euros (which were heavily overvalued compared to sterling). qpr's revenues are denominated in the heavily weakened pound
so basically, any value we thought we were getting in buying cheap, unknown European gems was wiped out by foreign exchange rate changes and the weakened pound....
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Ollie & foreign players - worrying pattern on 11:48 - Feb 2 with 2299 views
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