| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. 02:46 - Oct 27 with 15094 views | stainrods_elbow |
I would urge all of us not to take this lying down. The following mail has gone in from me tonight to the Club/Lee Hoos, and the EFL. I feel there needs to be an official protest from the top of the Club, and fans like me need to see it.
lee.hoos@qpr.co.uk
enquiries@efl.com
Dear Mr Hoos and the EFL,
As an aggrieved QPR supporter and active contributor to the QPR messageboard Loft for Words, which has been unified in its livid disgust this evening, I am writing to you now in conjunction with the above incident this evening. This is the first time I have felt driven to do so in 45 years of following the club re a footballing matter, but it cannot be allowed to pass.
As the QPR manager Mark Warburton made clear in his post-match interview, the decision not to award a legitimate goal to QPR, scored by Charlie Austin, was scandalously wrong in a scenario that was not even remotely close, contributing directly to the club's exit from the competition this evening and ultimately making a mockery of the spectacle. It is likely this goal would have won the game, as it was scored a few minutes before the end of the 90 minutes. Given the magnitude of the error and attached photographic evidence that clearly shows Austin very comfortably onside when the ball was played, the decision to disallow the goal can therefore only be explained by a conspiracy of craven incompetence or else corruption.
It has also been pointed out that, to add insult to injury, a flagrant handball by a Sunderland defender in the build-up to the goal occurred, which could and should also have led to a penalty and a red card, so the laws of the game were also not applied twice over for reasons best known to the incompetent officials.
Please review the attached evidence carefully. I wish to know (i) what action will be taken against the referee Keith Stroud and his offending linesmen Paul Hodskinson and Mark Dwyer, as well as the 4th official John Busby, who, despite having a monitor, apparently also enforced this miscarriage of justice, for effectively bringing the game into disrepute; (ii) what reparation will be made to QPR FC for the loss of gate receipts, sponsorship and associated benefits attached to their failure to progress, and (iii) where and when an official apology will be issued for this injustice that is visible to fans.
Finally, I think it would be very wise that Mr Stroud and his officials are not allocated any game at QPR FC for the foreseeable future, as I think it would be difficult for the Club to guarantee their safety were this to happen.
I look forward to your replies.
Yours sincerely,
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| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 18:52 - Oct 28 with 2126 views | stainrods_elbow |
Thanks, Discodroids. (Your nick sounds like some science fiction of haemorrhoids, ha ha.) It's (obviously) not all about me, but I've also had one private message of support off board, which I appreciate too.
Life goes on, of course, but with a festering sense of grievance, at least for me anyway. It's what any kind of love does to you, of course, and fan love is by definition the most mad/fantatical, which is why I just smile when I see smug/woke types asking me if I'm not well or suggesting I'm peddling some form of insanity. Good luck with your complacent, judgmental and superior good health - you know who you are!
In which spirit of derangement, let's hope something karmically nasty happens to Stroud and his merry men. The Schadenfreude would be so satisfying.
Happy feckin' Halloween! [Post edited 28 Oct 2021 18:53]
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| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 19:08 - Oct 28 with 2080 views | Discodroids |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 18:52 - Oct 28 by stainrods_elbow |
Thanks, Discodroids. (Your nick sounds like some science fiction of haemorrhoids, ha ha.) It's (obviously) not all about me, but I've also had one private message of support off board, which I appreciate too.
Life goes on, of course, but with a festering sense of grievance, at least for me anyway. It's what any kind of love does to you, of course, and fan love is by definition the most mad/fantatical, which is why I just smile when I see smug/woke types asking me if I'm not well or suggesting I'm peddling some form of insanity. Good luck with your complacent, judgmental and superior good health - you know who you are!
In which spirit of derangement, let's hope something karmically nasty happens to Stroud and his merry men. The Schadenfreude would be so satisfying.
Happy feckin' Halloween! [Post edited 28 Oct 2021 18:53]
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Your passion for QPR Reminds me of myself in the 90's.
You keep posting from the heart mate. I remember a line from a Roman Polanski film 'Bitter Moon'
'Some men are Demolished by a love thats too strong'.
I've felt like that about Queens Park Rangers football club since 1978!
;-) [Post edited 28 Oct 2021 19:09]
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| "...The monkey is never dead, Dealer. The monkey never dies. When you kick him off, he just hides in a corner, waiting his turn." |
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| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 19:17 - Oct 28 with 2053 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 19:08 - Oct 28 by Discodroids |
Your passion for QPR Reminds me of myself in the 90's.
You keep posting from the heart mate. I remember a line from a Roman Polanski film 'Bitter Moon'
'Some men are Demolished by a love thats too strong'.
I've felt like that about Queens Park Rangers football club since 1978!
;-) [Post edited 28 Oct 2021 19:09]
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We should have a pint sometime and compare notes on how much (or little) we've both changed vis-a-vis QPR since the 70s/80s/90s. (Is it we who've changed/not changed, or football, or both?) A lot of people just get hollower and more cynical, of course, but save me from the fag-end and superioty complex of 'realism' any day of the week. Football is about magic and dreaming and fantasy - end of! At it's best, it's theatrical art, not an exercise in fitting into financial rules, even if the business side has taken over.
In the meantime, that's a great line from Polanski - another much-maligned genius, ha ha. Wilde famously wrote that 'each man kills the thing he loves', of course.
'Yet each man kills the thing he loves
By each let this be heard,
Some do it with a bitter look,
Some with a flattering word,
The coward does it with a kiss,
The brave man with a sword!' [Post edited 28 Oct 2021 19:26]
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| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 19:41 - Oct 28 with 1979 views | thame_hoops |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 19:08 - Oct 28 by Discodroids |
Your passion for QPR Reminds me of myself in the 90's.
You keep posting from the heart mate. I remember a line from a Roman Polanski film 'Bitter Moon'
'Some men are Demolished by a love thats too strong'.
I've felt like that about Queens Park Rangers football club since 1978!
;-) [Post edited 28 Oct 2021 19:09]
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Get a room you two 🤗 â¤ï¸ |  | | |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 19:49 - Oct 28 with 1970 views | HAYESBOY |
Was fuming about the disallowed goal for a couple of days, telling work mates and anyone who would listen that we were robbed, and understand that what we feel should be recognised by the authorities.
I understand that all of the suggestions here are as a result of a really poor ref and linesman making awful decisions regarding the handball and offside.
What realistically should happen?
Well those two should not get a game for at least 2 games going forward. Bit like getting a red card. Miss 2 games.
IMO, and it has always been the same regarding this, is that if you bring in technology or a rule change, it applies to all levels of the professional game. That includes VAR.
I don't mean to open up the VAR debate about it being good, bad or killing the game, but it would have meant then the goal would have counted and most likely winning us the game.
If every professional team had it then it would have been used IMO. I know it wasn't used in the all Prem ties, but my point is that if it was universal it would of most likely been used.
Just my opinion. On to Florists now. |  |
| Smells like a trout farm in here |
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| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 20:11 - Oct 28 with 1945 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 19:41 - Oct 28 by thame_hoops |
Get a room you two 🤗 â¤ï¸ |
Actually, this made me wonder about an LFW 'event' of some kind one of these days. Probably a massive drink-up in a decent London pub + quiz. I'd love to meet everyone (though perhaps everyone wouldn't love to meet me). Clive? | |
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| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 11:44 - Nov 4 with 1506 views | superhoopdownunder |
Received an email back from the EFL
Hello James,
Thank you for your email and for getting in touch regarding the above fixture.
Generally speaking, the EFL can receive numerous queries and complaints regarding the decisions and performances of match officials. While we are not always able to comment on specific incidents, we can advise that the performances of all officials are constantly monitored by way of club and match evaluation reports, match videos and footage received by the referees’ coaches. Matches are also analysed by the EFL’s Referees' Director, a referees’ coach and the referee, and assessment of performances can have an impact on future appointments.
Following the QPR v Sunderland match we can advise that the Referees’ Director has been in contact with both Clubs. Additionally, the decision making processes and how these were applied and can be improved in future games has also been covered with the relevant match officials. Naturally, it is important to note that the match officials have a challenging role in trying to spot every single incident that occurs on the field of play in ‘real time’, whether this be due to the proximity of the ball to players, the position of the referee, or other players obscuring views of the officials. The human element of the sport means referees do also make mistakes during games, just like players and managers do on a weekly basis. With only one chance to view every incident, and no benefit of replays, the modern referee sometimes has a difficult task.
As previously noted, while referees decisions are final, post-match Clubs do have the opportunity to mark the referee’s performance and raise any issues with the Referees’ Manager and open dialogue between the Clubs and PGMOL is encouraged, with a panel consisting of members of the LMA and PFA as well as former match officials.
Thank you for contacting the EFL.
Kind Regards |  | | |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 11:56 - Nov 4 with 1451 views | stowmarketrange |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 20:11 - Oct 28 by stainrods_elbow |
Actually, this made me wonder about an LFW 'event' of some kind one of these days. Probably a massive drink-up in a decent London pub + quiz. I'd love to meet everyone (though perhaps everyone wouldn't love to meet me). Clive? |
With the amount of people constantly arguing with other posters on here I don’t think it would be a good idea.Unless political talk was banned,it wouldn’t end well. |  | | |
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| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 12:21 - Nov 4 with 1387 views | eastside_r |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 11:56 - Nov 4 by stowmarketrange |
With the amount of people constantly arguing with other posters on here I don’t think it would be a good idea.Unless political talk was banned,it wouldn’t end well. |
I know what you mean. Would it be a ‘bring your own shotgun’ event?  |  | | |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 12:50 - Nov 4 with 1289 views | QPR_John |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 11:44 - Nov 4 by superhoopdownunder |
Received an email back from the EFL
Hello James,
Thank you for your email and for getting in touch regarding the above fixture.
Generally speaking, the EFL can receive numerous queries and complaints regarding the decisions and performances of match officials. While we are not always able to comment on specific incidents, we can advise that the performances of all officials are constantly monitored by way of club and match evaluation reports, match videos and footage received by the referees’ coaches. Matches are also analysed by the EFL’s Referees' Director, a referees’ coach and the referee, and assessment of performances can have an impact on future appointments.
Following the QPR v Sunderland match we can advise that the Referees’ Director has been in contact with both Clubs. Additionally, the decision making processes and how these were applied and can be improved in future games has also been covered with the relevant match officials. Naturally, it is important to note that the match officials have a challenging role in trying to spot every single incident that occurs on the field of play in ‘real time’, whether this be due to the proximity of the ball to players, the position of the referee, or other players obscuring views of the officials. The human element of the sport means referees do also make mistakes during games, just like players and managers do on a weekly basis. With only one chance to view every incident, and no benefit of replays, the modern referee sometimes has a difficult task.
As previously noted, while referees decisions are final, post-match Clubs do have the opportunity to mark the referee’s performance and raise any issues with the Referees’ Manager and open dialogue between the Clubs and PGMOL is encouraged, with a panel consisting of members of the LMA and PFA as well as former match officials.
Thank you for contacting the EFL.
Kind Regards |
“ Following the QPR v Sunderland match we can advise that the Referees’ Director has been in contact with both Clubs. ”
Just received the same reply. Why they should contact Sunderland beats me I am sure they were happy with the officials performance. As far as I know we have had no news from the club on this so we’re they ordered by the FL not to release what was discussed. But above all else you have to ask what the FL think of us supporters. We deserve no explanation as far as they are concerned. | | | |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 13:00 - Nov 4 with 1262 views | stowmarketrange |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 12:21 - Nov 4 by eastside_r |
I know what you mean. Would it be a ‘bring your own shotgun’ event? |
There would be a few in the left side of the room and a few in the right side,but most of us would be in the middle of the room trying to keep the peace and ignore the noise coming from both sides of the room. | | | |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 06:40 - Nov 6 with 1012 views | saxbend |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 10:25 - Oct 28 by HamptonR |
Taking the players off is a Sunday morning worst case scenario at Under 9s or 10s.
Even then it is wrong. |
I'd want to see players taken off if there's been racist abuse or something on that scale. Not over a dodgy decision.
As for the decision itself, I'm definitely not blaming Sunderland for it. They know they were lucky but they didn't set out to be lucky. I'm not blaming Stroud either. He gave the goal, then saw the flag and thought in good faith that the linesman, whose job it is to notify him of any offsides he sees had seen a genuine offside. I've no idea what the fourth official's involvement was. He may have given his opinion to Warburton, but unless he was the one who told the lino to put his flag up, which I believe is against the rules, then that's irrelevant.
For me it's all on the lino. But what I would like to see, and I would like it to be come standard, is post-match interviews with officials where they explain what they saw and how they reached their decisions. They can admit mistakes just like managers can and it will help fans accept that everyone makes mistakes without necessarily being useless, never mind biased. But it will probably more often reveal that it's the fans and the pundits who misunderstood. It could be very educative even and definitely improve respect for officials. I suppose the downside is that officials will be known by their quotes and personality types and that will draw more attention to them during games in the way that it is to different managers at the moment, while at present to fans and pundits referees are viewed more as robots. Personally I'd accept that as a price worth paying, even if it means we get more Uriah Rennies and Mike Deans trying to make everything all about them. |  | | |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 07:16 - Nov 6 with 981 views | johncharles |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 11:44 - Nov 4 by superhoopdownunder |
Received an email back from the EFL
Hello James,
Thank you for your email and for getting in touch regarding the above fixture.
Generally speaking, the EFL can receive numerous queries and complaints regarding the decisions and performances of match officials. While we are not always able to comment on specific incidents, we can advise that the performances of all officials are constantly monitored by way of club and match evaluation reports, match videos and footage received by the referees’ coaches. Matches are also analysed by the EFL’s Referees' Director, a referees’ coach and the referee, and assessment of performances can have an impact on future appointments.
Following the QPR v Sunderland match we can advise that the Referees’ Director has been in contact with both Clubs. Additionally, the decision making processes and how these were applied and can be improved in future games has also been covered with the relevant match officials. Naturally, it is important to note that the match officials have a challenging role in trying to spot every single incident that occurs on the field of play in ‘real time’, whether this be due to the proximity of the ball to players, the position of the referee, or other players obscuring views of the officials. The human element of the sport means referees do also make mistakes during games, just like players and managers do on a weekly basis. With only one chance to view every incident, and no benefit of replays, the modern referee sometimes has a difficult task.
As previously noted, while referees decisions are final, post-match Clubs do have the opportunity to mark the referee’s performance and raise any issues with the Referees’ Manager and open dialogue between the Clubs and PGMOL is encouraged, with a panel consisting of members of the LMA and PFA as well as former match officials.
Thank you for contacting the EFL.
Kind Regards |
Thank you for contacting the EFL
Kind Regards
Now F**k Off |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 10:23 - Nov 6 with 691 views | francisbowles |
| Post-Sunderland: complaining to the club and EFL. on 06:40 - Nov 6 by saxbend |
I'd want to see players taken off if there's been racist abuse or something on that scale. Not over a dodgy decision.
As for the decision itself, I'm definitely not blaming Sunderland for it. They know they were lucky but they didn't set out to be lucky. I'm not blaming Stroud either. He gave the goal, then saw the flag and thought in good faith that the linesman, whose job it is to notify him of any offsides he sees had seen a genuine offside. I've no idea what the fourth official's involvement was. He may have given his opinion to Warburton, but unless he was the one who told the lino to put his flag up, which I believe is against the rules, then that's irrelevant.
For me it's all on the lino. But what I would like to see, and I would like it to be come standard, is post-match interviews with officials where they explain what they saw and how they reached their decisions. They can admit mistakes just like managers can and it will help fans accept that everyone makes mistakes without necessarily being useless, never mind biased. But it will probably more often reveal that it's the fans and the pundits who misunderstood. It could be very educative even and definitely improve respect for officials. I suppose the downside is that officials will be known by their quotes and personality types and that will draw more attention to them during games in the way that it is to different managers at the moment, while at present to fans and pundits referees are viewed more as robots. Personally I'd accept that as a price worth paying, even if it means we get more Uriah Rennies and Mike Deans trying to make everything all about them. |
I not sure how it works with the referees' assessors but maybe after a consultation and review of the decisions, the assessor could be interviewed and explain the call or why a mistake was made and say whether the referee's performance mark had been amended accordingly.
It probably wouldn't be done until at least thirty minutes after the game has finished but could be shown on MOTD, Quest highlights etc. | | | |
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