| Back 5 15:42 - Oct 27 with 1534 views | Petros |
I don't think it's working.
The full backs pushed up so far forward is exposing the weaknesses of our centre backs. Dickie, a really good footballer and intelligent, composed player, is having a slowly-unravelling nervous breakdown in real time. All opposition managers are targetting him, putting their paciest player against him. Yesterday, the number 7 pulled out wide into the space left by Kakay, and Dickie became de facto right back to mark him. He was beaten for pace every time, as he always will be. His confidence is draining by the game. The 7 also marked him when we had the ball at the back, correctly assessing he was an important distributor for us.
I thought our team selection was poor yesterday. (Usual Clive Caveat that I acknowledge Warbs knows quite a lot more than me about football). Very strange not playing a defensive midfielder, in such an important game, when we are so porous in the middle of our back line. Ball, like him or not, is the only midfielder we have who thinks primarily about defending, and takes up good positions to protect the defence. Amos worked really hard yesterday, but that is not his game. Nor, obviously, that of Chair and Willock. We sacrificed so much in trying to squeeze Gray into the team yesterday, and it didn't work. I remain hugely unimpressed by him. True, we kept a clean sheet - but the side didn't look right to me, and Sunderland finished poorly. I am coming to dread our attacks because of the impending counter-attack.
I believe our natural formation to be the so-called Christmas tree: Dykes, Chair, Willock absolved of defensive duties, moving all over the place, able to beat players in attacking positions, also able to score, backed by a tight midfield three - eg Ball, Amos, SJ? - in front of an orthodox back four. Dickie can get back to organising and winning headers, our full backs - probably our quickest players? - can be there to take care of wingers and cover.
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| Back 5 on 16:22 - Oct 27 with 1477 views | PinnerPaul |
Think its an inevitable consequence of the back3/5 system - there can be an awful lot of space left in behind the wing backs. | | | |
| Back 5 on 16:25 - Oct 27 with 1469 views | DieByYourSide |
4321 could be a good shout. Equally could we not move Dickie inside to be the middle of the three CBs? Would mean he gets dragged out wide and into danger less, but also probably gives him less opportunities to stride forward... | |
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| Back 5 on 16:27 - Oct 27 with 1454 views | QPR_John |
I think the major problem is currently we have wingbacks who cannot defend, wingbacks who cannot attack and wingbacks who cannot do either. | | | |
| Back 5 on 16:32 - Oct 27 with 1434 views | PinnerPaul |
| Back 5 on 16:27 - Oct 27 by QPR_John |
I think the major problem is currently we have wingbacks who cannot defend, wingbacks who cannot attack and wingbacks who cannot do either. |
TBF I though Kakay was decent last night.
As MW said, in another context, no one can run as fast as a ball is kicked, so if an attack breaks down, inevitably there WILL be space where the wing back was/should be, and teams can exploit that - as Sunderland did last night on several occasions. | | | |
| Back 5 on 16:38 - Oct 27 with 1403 views | WatfordR |
| Back 5 on 16:32 - Oct 27 by PinnerPaul |
TBF I though Kakay was decent last night.
As MW said, in another context, no one can run as fast as a ball is kicked, so if an attack breaks down, inevitably there WILL be space where the wing back was/should be, and teams can exploit that - as Sunderland did last night on several occasions. |
Petros touched on this in his post. Both wing backs are high at the same time and that for me is a big part of our problem. One should always be deeper than the other imo, so that in the event of a move breaking down, the spare wing back drops into a full back position and then you've got a back four with (hopefully) a defensive midfielder to try and slow up or protect from that counter. [Post edited 27 Oct 2021 16:41]
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| Back 5 on 16:41 - Oct 27 with 1387 views | PinnerPaul |
| Back 5 on 16:38 - Oct 27 by WatfordR |
Petros touched on this in his post. Both wing backs are high at the same time and that for me is a big part of our problem. One should always be deeper than the other imo, so that in the event of a move breaking down, the spare wing back drops into a full back position and then you've got a back four with (hopefully) a defensive midfielder to try and slow up or protect from that counter. [Post edited 27 Oct 2021 16:41]
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Good points from you and Petros - agree. | | | |
| Back 5 on 20:11 - Oct 27 with 1270 views | ozexile |
| Back 5 on 16:38 - Oct 27 by WatfordR |
Petros touched on this in his post. Both wing backs are high at the same time and that for me is a big part of our problem. One should always be deeper than the other imo, so that in the event of a move breaking down, the spare wing back drops into a full back position and then you've got a back four with (hopefully) a defensive midfielder to try and slow up or protect from that counter. [Post edited 27 Oct 2021 16:41]
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Totally agree. | | | |
| Back 5 on 20:20 - Oct 27 with 1253 views | DubaiR |
It’s been touched on, wing backs that can’t cross apart from adomah and Wallace (missing him). Both attack at same time when one should sit. Dickie being exposed in the right channel, Austin is a penalty box striker now and we rarely deliver good balls into the box. Think Everton and Charlie got two.
I would go with 3 at the back but move dickie inside and see how Jimmy fares on the right before changing everything.
I would play two true midfielders with JoJo to give him legs, willock needs a rest.
Dieng
Jimmy dickie barbet
Adomah. Wallace
Amos JoJo Ball
Chair
Dykes
When we break ball sits in [Post edited 27 Oct 2021 20:21]
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| Back 5 on 20:38 - Oct 27 with 1233 views | BklynRanger |
| Back 5 on 16:38 - Oct 27 by WatfordR |
Petros touched on this in his post. Both wing backs are high at the same time and that for me is a big part of our problem. One should always be deeper than the other imo, so that in the event of a move breaking down, the spare wing back drops into a full back position and then you've got a back four with (hopefully) a defensive midfielder to try and slow up or protect from that counter. [Post edited 27 Oct 2021 16:41]
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I noticed that point about how advanced the wing backs were last night. I think it may have been a Mackem goal kick - either way it was a point in the first half when the team shape was set.
Kakay and Moses were both in seriously advanced midfield positions - very attacking but yes, puts a lot of responsibility on getting it right in midfield and having the time and pace to recover if/when that doesn't happen. |  | | |
| Back 5 on 21:05 - Oct 27 with 1203 views | baz_qpr |
We went 3 at the back for the same defensive problems we have now only then it was two full backs bombing on and two centre backs being caught out of position.
I dont particularly have issue with the 3 at the back its the utterly bonkers 1 playmaker in central midfield playing role of clogger and playmaker to accommodate having both Chair and Willock and then two strikers up front, that we have been trying since Bristol City
I dont get it, I think the signing of Andre Gray has been a bit of an own goal, nothing against the guy (other than he seems a stroppy git and a bit lazy) this has been coupled with what seems a total implosion with Austin.
When we were doing well the formula was 1 up front 2 roaming 10s that would overload with Wallace down the left. Playmaker next to a clogger in midfield (even better with Field a very talented clogger) and one of the back three stepping outing central midfield to allow the playmaker to slot into the 10 role.
God could you imagine what a Man City or Chelsea would do to us with us effectively playing 3-3-4 / 5-1-4
Hoping that Field and Wallace return will pull it back together again, that the team spirit that seems to be seeping away is recaptured. That Austin either sorts his head / body out or manages to adjust his game to the new reality of being the slowest player on the pitch. Thats someone makes Andre Gray laugh or smile and he might actually enjoy playing football again, and pray that Willock, Dykes and Chair dont get injured and Warburton rediscovers that most teams tend to have a midfield for a reason [Post edited 27 Oct 2021 21:06]
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| Back 5 on 21:06 - Oct 27 with 1194 views | DubaiR |
That’s where teams have figured us out imo, our pressing high leaves gaps in the channels how many goals come from the flanks? I don’t know but guess the majority | | | |
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