| Our prime minister 11:51 - Sep 24 with 21636 views | rochdaleriddler |
After the ruling of the Supreme Court surely he has to resign? I’m not wanting to start a brexit post here. His actions have been ruled unlawful by our most senior court, not been a great few days coming after the revelations of his dalliance with the American woman |  |
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| Our prime minister on 12:02 - Sep 24 with 5225 views | ArthurDaley |
No, stitched up like a kipper by 11 remoaners. Saw some silly cow going on about democracy and having a peoples vote. We have had a peoples vote and democracy died when the vote by 17.4 million people was ignored. |  |
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| Our prime minister on 12:06 - Sep 24 with 5215 views | mingthemerciless |
Bye bye Boris, close the door on the way out. [Post edited 24 Sep 2019 12:07]
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| Our prime minister on 12:08 - Sep 24 with 5203 views | mingthemerciless |
| Our prime minister on 12:02 - Sep 24 by ArthurDaley |
No, stitched up like a kipper by 11 remoaners. Saw some silly cow going on about democracy and having a peoples vote. We have had a peoples vote and democracy died when the vote by 17.4 million people was ignored. |
You're trying to tell us all eleven Supreme Court Judges got this wrong ? | | | |
| Our prime minister on 12:12 - Sep 24 with 5184 views | nordenblue |
| Our prime minister on 12:08 - Sep 24 by mingthemerciless |
You're trying to tell us all eleven Supreme Court Judges got this wrong ? |
It does appear that when certain folk don't get the result they want for their own personal reasons(gain) they stamp and stamp and moan to someone else till they get the result they wanted,im not into politics one bit but one things clear the full fooking lot want bombing out of a job.
Regardless of which side of the fence anyone chooses to sit all this pissing about for years on end is massively detrimental to our country,it's pretty obvious [Post edited 24 Sep 2019 12:13]
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| Our prime minister on 12:14 - Sep 24 with 5173 views | Ancoats_Blue |
| Our prime minister on 12:02 - Sep 24 by ArthurDaley |
No, stitched up like a kipper by 11 remoaners. Saw some silly cow going on about democracy and having a peoples vote. We have had a peoples vote and democracy died when the vote by 17.4 million people was ignored. |
The Separation of Powers is a fundamental part of a healthy democracy. The executive should not be allowed to remain unchallenged by a legislative and judicial review. |  | | |
| Our prime minister on 12:21 - Sep 24 with 5107 views | D_Alien |
I welcome your OP rr, not least because of not wanting to re-open the Brexit debate
As the Supreme Court judges made clear, today's ruling is not about that
It's about whether the PM acted unlawfully, and the Supreme Court found that he had. However, imo, when the decision to prorogue parliament was taken it simply wasn't established whether it was unlawful or not, therefore - whatever his motivations - he has no need to resign since he acted in a way that didn't contravene any jurisdiction at that point
The law has now been clarified, and it needed to be, and that's all to the good. The justices of the Supreme Court made clear how difficult this point of law was during the court proceedings - and wouldn't have stated that if it'd been perfectly clear
I hope he abides by it fully and doesn't seek to further prorogue parliament, but continues to push the rest of the EU for a deal which can satisfy parliament and secure the will of the electorate who voted in the EU referendum. But as i made clear, that's a different matter to today's court ruling
[Post edited 24 Sep 2019 12:24]
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| Our prime minister on 12:29 - Sep 24 with 5095 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Our prime minister on 12:21 - Sep 24 by D_Alien |
I welcome your OP rr, not least because of not wanting to re-open the Brexit debate
As the Supreme Court judges made clear, today's ruling is not about that
It's about whether the PM acted unlawfully, and the Supreme Court found that he had. However, imo, when the decision to prorogue parliament was taken it simply wasn't established whether it was unlawful or not, therefore - whatever his motivations - he has no need to resign since he acted in a way that didn't contravene any jurisdiction at that point
The law has now been clarified, and it needed to be, and that's all to the good. The justices of the Supreme Court made clear how difficult this point of law was during the court proceedings - and wouldn't have stated that if it'd been perfectly clear
I hope he abides by it fully and doesn't seek to further prorogue parliament, but continues to push the rest of the EU for a deal which can satisfy parliament and secure the will of the electorate who voted in the EU referendum. But as i made clear, that's a different matter to today's court ruling
[Post edited 24 Sep 2019 12:24]
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It may have been difficult, but the decision is unanimous, cue all the knobheads saying the judges are lefty remainders! | |
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| Our prime minister on 12:30 - Sep 24 with 5095 views | Swissdale |
| Our prime minister on 12:02 - Sep 24 by ArthurDaley |
No, stitched up like a kipper by 11 remoaners. Saw some silly cow going on about democracy and having a peoples vote. We have had a peoples vote and democracy died when the vote by 17.4 million people was ignored. |
This has to be the stupidest post I’ve seen since Tazzy stopped contributing to this message board. |  | | |
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| Our prime minister on 12:31 - Sep 24 with 5088 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Our prime minister on 12:02 - Sep 24 by ArthurDaley |
No, stitched up like a kipper by 11 remoaners. Saw some silly cow going on about democracy and having a peoples vote. We have had a peoples vote and democracy died when the vote by 17.4 million people was ignored. |
11 senior judges all europhiles? It’s about the law ffs | |
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| Our prime minister on 12:31 - Sep 24 with 5087 views | Ancoats_Blue |
| Our prime minister on 12:12 - Sep 24 by nordenblue |
It does appear that when certain folk don't get the result they want for their own personal reasons(gain) they stamp and stamp and moan to someone else till they get the result they wanted,im not into politics one bit but one things clear the full fooking lot want bombing out of a job.
Regardless of which side of the fence anyone chooses to sit all this pissing about for years on end is massively detrimental to our country,it's pretty obvious [Post edited 24 Sep 2019 12:13]
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Isn't that just normal democratic process? One idea being favoured by a group being challenged by another?
This has always happened. if it didn't we wouldn't have fundamentally different political parties representing their idea of what is the best way of running the UK : (small c) conservatism, classical liberalism or democratic-socialism. We'd just have some weird scenario where every government since the dawn of time was a bland homogenous gathering where everything went unchallenged.
All we're seeing now is a divisive single issue being played out over an extended period of time. It'd be wrong to expect the "losing" side to just give up an accept any result in a democratic process. We should expect the government to be opposed, ideas to be challenged and a common sense "meeting in the middle" to occur. | | | |
| Our prime minister on 12:32 - Sep 24 with 5080 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Our prime minister on 12:12 - Sep 24 by nordenblue |
It does appear that when certain folk don't get the result they want for their own personal reasons(gain) they stamp and stamp and moan to someone else till they get the result they wanted,im not into politics one bit but one things clear the full fooking lot want bombing out of a job.
Regardless of which side of the fence anyone chooses to sit all this pissing about for years on end is massively detrimental to our country,it's pretty obvious [Post edited 24 Sep 2019 12:13]
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He broke the law | |
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| Our prime minister on 12:33 - Sep 24 with 5029 views | D_Alien |
| Our prime minister on 12:29 - Sep 24 by rochdaleriddler |
It may have been difficult, but the decision is unanimous, cue all the knobheads saying the judges are lefty remainders! |
I'm sure they were aware of the gravity of their ruling, and wouldn't have dared interpret the law in such a way as to leave themselves open to accusations of political bias | |
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| Our prime minister on 12:33 - Sep 24 with 5050 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Our prime minister on 12:30 - Sep 24 by Swissdale |
This has to be the stupidest post I’ve seen since Tazzy stopped contributing to this message board. |
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| Our prime minister on 12:35 - Sep 24 with 5038 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Our prime minister on 12:33 - Sep 24 by D_Alien |
I'm sure they were aware of the gravity of their ruling, and wouldn't have dared interpret the law in such a way as to leave themselves open to accusations of political bias |
I’d wager that most senior judges are to the right of centre! | |
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| Our prime minister on 12:39 - Sep 24 with 5012 views | rod_leach |
| Our prime minister on 12:02 - Sep 24 by ArthurDaley |
No, stitched up like a kipper by 11 remoaners. Saw some silly cow going on about democracy and having a peoples vote. We have had a peoples vote and democracy died when the vote by 17.4 million people was ignored. |
I accidentally clicked up not down, so your post should be on -2 now.
You don't agree with the rule of law or the sovereignty of Parilament then? If he could prorogue for 5 weeks legally, what's to stop any PM proroging for 2 years and just ruling via the executive, cutting out the representatives of the people? |  | | |
| Our prime minister on 12:40 - Sep 24 with 4977 views | D_Alien |
| Our prime minister on 12:35 - Sep 24 by rochdaleriddler |
I’d wager that most senior judges are to the right of centre! |
That may well be the case, i don't know, but (again, without wishing to re-open the Brexit debate) i think the political divide in the UK is no longer about, or just about, left & right
Gotta admit, i find the whole thing fascinating. I followed the court case on live tv almost throughout it's entire length
As far as i'm aware though, the Supreme Court hasn't gone as far as the Scottish court and declared it's view on the PM's motivation - very wise of them | |
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| Our prime minister on 12:43 - Sep 24 with 4990 views | Ancoats_Blue |
| Our prime minister on 12:39 - Sep 24 by rod_leach |
I accidentally clicked up not down, so your post should be on -2 now.
You don't agree with the rule of law or the sovereignty of Parilament then? If he could prorogue for 5 weeks legally, what's to stop any PM proroging for 2 years and just ruling via the executive, cutting out the representatives of the people? |
Precisely.
This isn't even about brexit, left or right, blue or red. It's about avoiding setting a dangerous precedent. | | | |
| Our prime minister on 12:55 - Sep 24 with 4936 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Our prime minister on 12:21 - Sep 24 by D_Alien |
I welcome your OP rr, not least because of not wanting to re-open the Brexit debate
As the Supreme Court judges made clear, today's ruling is not about that
It's about whether the PM acted unlawfully, and the Supreme Court found that he had. However, imo, when the decision to prorogue parliament was taken it simply wasn't established whether it was unlawful or not, therefore - whatever his motivations - he has no need to resign since he acted in a way that didn't contravene any jurisdiction at that point
The law has now been clarified, and it needed to be, and that's all to the good. The justices of the Supreme Court made clear how difficult this point of law was during the court proceedings - and wouldn't have stated that if it'd been perfectly clear
I hope he abides by it fully and doesn't seek to further prorogue parliament, but continues to push the rest of the EU for a deal which can satisfy parliament and secure the will of the electorate who voted in the EU referendum. But as i made clear, that's a different matter to today's court ruling
[Post edited 24 Sep 2019 12:24]
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You can’t be found to have acted unlawfully if your actions were not unlawful at the time. At the time of his actions it was unlawful to provide incorrect (to put it diplomatically) reasons to our head of state, which she is duty bound to accept, for suspending Parliament. This is what he did.
I agree though that this is not a Brexit issue. Brexit or not you can’t have the Prime Minister acting unlawfully.
The likes of David Davis, who has just come out and said Boris is facing a pro-EU establishment, need to be careful here. They are inferring that his suspension of Parliament was indeed about Brexit. If that’s the case then he is confirming the Judges’ ruling because that’s not the reason Boris gave for suspending Parliament. | |
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| Our prime minister on 12:55 - Sep 24 with 4931 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Our prime minister on 12:40 - Sep 24 by D_Alien |
That may well be the case, i don't know, but (again, without wishing to re-open the Brexit debate) i think the political divide in the UK is no longer about, or just about, left & right
Gotta admit, i find the whole thing fascinating. I followed the court case on live tv almost throughout it's entire length
As far as i'm aware though, the Supreme Court hasn't gone as far as the Scottish court and declared it's view on the PM's motivation - very wise of them |
It is fascinating | |
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| Our prime minister on 12:56 - Sep 24 with 4922 views | soulboy |
| Our prime minister on 12:02 - Sep 24 by ArthurDaley |
No, stitched up like a kipper by 11 remoaners. Saw some silly cow going on about democracy and having a peoples vote. We have had a peoples vote and democracy died when the vote by 17.4 million people was ignored. |
The court hearing was about whether Johnson lied about suspending parliament, nothing to do with the vote on Brexit. Hes been rumbled as a liar as well as an incompetent oaf who puts his own aspirations first. Sling your hook Boris, the shortest serving and most inept prime minister we've had the misfortune to have. [Post edited 24 Sep 2019 12:59]
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| Our prime minister on 12:58 - Sep 24 with 4905 views | judd |
| Our prime minister on 12:56 - Sep 24 by soulboy |
The court hearing was about whether Johnson lied about suspending parliament, nothing to do with the vote on Brexit. Hes been rumbled as a liar as well as an incompetent oaf who puts his own aspirations first. Sling your hook Boris, the shortest serving and most inept prime minister we've had the misfortune to have. [Post edited 24 Sep 2019 12:59]
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I think Thatcher was somewhat shorter than him. |  |
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| Our prime minister on 13:00 - Sep 24 with 4898 views | pioneer |
| Our prime minister on 12:56 - Sep 24 by soulboy |
The court hearing was about whether Johnson lied about suspending parliament, nothing to do with the vote on Brexit. Hes been rumbled as a liar as well as an incompetent oaf who puts his own aspirations first. Sling your hook Boris, the shortest serving and most inept prime minister we've had the misfortune to have. [Post edited 24 Sep 2019 12:59]
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I think Clem Atlee was shorter, he was almost a midget; a modest man with much to be modest about according the churchill! | | | |
| Our prime minister on 13:02 - Sep 24 with 4887 views | soulboy |
| Our prime minister on 13:00 - Sep 24 by pioneer |
I think Clem Atlee was shorter, he was almost a midget; a modest man with much to be modest about according the churchill! |
Edited my post to avoid confusion over heights of PMs! | | | |
| Our prime minister on 13:03 - Sep 24 with 4873 views | judd |
| Our prime minister on 13:02 - Sep 24 by soulboy |
Edited my post to avoid confusion over heights of PMs! |
Sorry, couldn't resist! | |
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| Our prime minister on 13:06 - Sep 24 with 4845 views | D_Alien |
| Our prime minister on 12:55 - Sep 24 by BigDaveMyCock |
You can’t be found to have acted unlawfully if your actions were not unlawful at the time. At the time of his actions it was unlawful to provide incorrect (to put it diplomatically) reasons to our head of state, which she is duty bound to accept, for suspending Parliament. This is what he did.
I agree though that this is not a Brexit issue. Brexit or not you can’t have the Prime Minister acting unlawfully.
The likes of David Davis, who has just come out and said Boris is facing a pro-EU establishment, need to be careful here. They are inferring that his suspension of Parliament was indeed about Brexit. If that’s the case then he is confirming the Judges’ ruling because that’s not the reason Boris gave for suspending Parliament. |
I agree with all you say, except in respect of the point of law at the time it was invoked by the prorogation. Whilst you're right to say you can't be found to have acted unlawfully if the law didn't apply at the time of the act, that's a different matter to wilfully breaking a law
I acknowledge that "ignorance of the law is no defence" - but let's just consider that the High Court had already ruled that the PM hadn't acted unlawfully. That's how difficult this decision - correct though it is - has been
The PM will have been advised that he wasn't breaking the law by whatever counsel (learned or otherwise) he was granted at the time
Edit: in fact, the entire case has rested on the prorogation being judicious or not, rather than on being unlawful. But by being deemed judicious, it was, de facto, unlawful
[Post edited 24 Sep 2019 13:12]
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