| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 22:25 - Jan 22 with 3168 views | judd |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 21:24 - Jan 22 by tony_roch975 |
sometimes and at Fans Forums I seem to recall - the response was that it was commercially sensitive or confidential under Employment Law. |
Having pondered upon the employment law gubbins I can only think that the transfer of a player means the cessation of an employment contract with one employer and the start of a new one with another employer, with a consideration fee agreed to be paid to the old employer by the new one.
I think the only way employment law becomes valid would be a TUPE situation whereby all employees are transferred to a new employer on existing terms. |  |
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| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 22:31 - Jan 22 with 3141 views | D_Alien |
Just as an aside, i wonder if Luke will be rested on Saturday? Now that RND has resumed on the left, it gives BBM the option of switching Keohane to RB in the absence of McLaughlin
No doubt that'd fuel the usual "he's off" rumours...
[Post edited 22 Jan 2020 22:34]
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| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 22:34 - Jan 22 with 3134 views | tony_roch975 |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 21:22 - Jan 22 by judd |
Matt Flynn left in 2010, his transfer fee would have been included in accounts filed in 2011 in accordance with company law and then presented to shareholders at the corresponding AGM 9 years ago. I expect. |
Sadly the accounts filed for YE2011 (& YE2010 & YE2012) were abbreviated without a Profit & Loss Account so it wasn't. |  |
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| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 22:44 - Jan 22 with 3083 views | judd |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 22:34 - Jan 22 by tony_roch975 |
Sadly the accounts filed for YE2011 (& YE2010 & YE2012) were abbreviated without a Profit & Loss Account so it wasn't. |
Yeah, you're right about the abbreviated accounts at that date not specifically having a transfer fees line. However there is a definition of turnover in those accounts that includes transfer fees, and the subsequent AGM outed the fee received for Flynn.
Owt else? | |
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| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 07:35 - Jan 23 with 2935 views | EllDale |
I was always told that legally it isn't a player who is transferred but rather his registration with the EFL/Premier League.
You don't purchase a piece of flesh and bone but rather his signature on a piece of paper.
Does this affect the way that a player's employment is regarded in the eyes of the law? | | | |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 07:44 - Jan 23 with 2928 views | 1907 |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 21:11 - Jan 22 by tony_roch975 |
previously perhaps but not at the AGMs I've attended in the past decade |
I can hand on heart say you’re wrong here.
I have been at several AGMs in the past decade where the directors have eventually told us how much we have received for players. I have several sets of annotated notes containing player names and amounts. | | | |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 08:10 - Jan 23 with 2888 views | judd |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 07:44 - Jan 23 by 1907 |
I can hand on heart say you’re wrong here.
I have been at several AGMs in the past decade where the directors have eventually told us how much we have received for players. I have several sets of annotated notes containing player names and amounts. |
Thank you for that.
Interesting that you use the word "eventually." | |
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| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 08:35 - Jan 23 with 2860 views | KenBoon |
Every interview with Matheson suggests he's a clever young lad who respects this club, what it's done for him and wouldn't insist on release clauses. If we did have one in and it was for a low amount then whoever agreed to it should never go near another contract again.
He's a very talented young player who I hope we get to see more of. I know transfer fees are an important income, but part of investing in youth is you get to see them put on the shirt for a while. The Dan Adshead transfer was a bitter one to take because we never really got that, and now he's in the youth team of a premier league yo-yo club. |  | | |
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| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 08:38 - Jan 23 with 2858 views | fermin |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 09:25 - Jan 22 by TalkingSutty |
Pleased to hear that because unless we are getting something like market value for our youth players then the whole process of the Youth Academy has to be called into question. It costs an awful lot of money to fund the Academy, employ coaches, management etc so it’s imperative we aren’t giving our players away for minimum fees after investing so much into them. Clubs like Wycombe Wanderers and others have scrapped their youth set ups and decided to pick up other Clubs cast offs because it is more cost effective in the long run.
Birmingham City are about to sell 16 years old Jude Bellington for £30 Million, he’s only made just over 20 appearances for the Club so that gives you some idea as to what Clubs are prepared to pay for young talent. Matheson should be valued in the low millions and not sold for less. His value would increase greatly if he played further up the field, I’m not convinced that playing at right back is his natural position. I think he would make a great attacking midfield player because he can run at his opponent at speed , tackle and score goals. |
Exeter also have a very good academy and here is an article with their view:
https://www.devonlive.com/sport/enough-enough-time-fa-stand-3765104 |  | | |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 09:37 - Jan 23 with 2796 views | TalkingSutty |
Thanks for that, an interesting read and it highlights the downside of running youth academies at our level. If you are not careful you end up investing an awful lot of money into the project and the players, only to see them leave for a pittance. If the academy is draining money away from financing the first team then everything starts to implode. The Academy has to be cost effective, if it’s costing us money then what’s the point? |  | | |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 13:36 - Jan 23 with 2622 views | AtThePeake |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 09:37 - Jan 23 by TalkingSutty |
Thanks for that, an interesting read and it highlights the downside of running youth academies at our level. If you are not careful you end up investing an awful lot of money into the project and the players, only to see them leave for a pittance. If the academy is draining money away from financing the first team then everything starts to implode. The Academy has to be cost effective, if it’s costing us money then what’s the point? |
It's worth taking into account the fact that, without the academy, we would have to sign an extra 3 or 4 players to fill out the first-team squad too. Not saying that it makes the whole system cost-effective, we obviously need to be selling these young lads on occasionally too, but we have three or four academy graduates at least in every squad, we'd need to find replacements for them from somewhere. |  |
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| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 14:18 - Jan 23 with 2564 views | DaleiLama |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 13:36 - Jan 23 by AtThePeake |
It's worth taking into account the fact that, without the academy, we would have to sign an extra 3 or 4 players to fill out the first-team squad too. Not saying that it makes the whole system cost-effective, we obviously need to be selling these young lads on occasionally too, but we have three or four academy graduates at least in every squad, we'd need to find replacements for them from somewhere. |
Trawling MASH units? |  |
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| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 14:20 - Jan 23 with 2569 views | TalkingSutty |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 13:36 - Jan 23 by AtThePeake |
It's worth taking into account the fact that, without the academy, we would have to sign an extra 3 or 4 players to fill out the first-team squad too. Not saying that it makes the whole system cost-effective, we obviously need to be selling these young lads on occasionally too, but we have three or four academy graduates at least in every squad, we'd need to find replacements for them from somewhere. |
Agree with that but the academy graduates have to be ready to compete at first team level rather than just padding out the squad. Recruiting broken toys and then selling those players on for big profits has been a very successful blueprint for the Club and it’s a quicker process than nurturing youth players in the hope that they will make the grade, even if they do there are restrictions in place that limit the value of the player to the selling Club so there are a lot of hurdles to overcome. It’s less riskier to sign a tried and trusted player with the hope of improving his game and selling him on, we did that with Lambert, Holt, Murray, Alfie, Hogan, Dawson etc and you also have the bonus of that player being fit for purpose and ready to compete straight away in the first team.
As you have probably guessed I’m not sold on youth academies because developing players is a long drawn out,risky process. It’s also expensive to fund and I think it will hamper player recruitment. The temptation will be to use players from the academy when they aren’t at the level required and results will suffer. | | | |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 15:47 - Jan 23 with 2489 views | tony_roch975 |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 14:20 - Jan 23 by TalkingSutty |
Agree with that but the academy graduates have to be ready to compete at first team level rather than just padding out the squad. Recruiting broken toys and then selling those players on for big profits has been a very successful blueprint for the Club and it’s a quicker process than nurturing youth players in the hope that they will make the grade, even if they do there are restrictions in place that limit the value of the player to the selling Club so there are a lot of hurdles to overcome. It’s less riskier to sign a tried and trusted player with the hope of improving his game and selling him on, we did that with Lambert, Holt, Murray, Alfie, Hogan, Dawson etc and you also have the bonus of that player being fit for purpose and ready to compete straight away in the first team.
As you have probably guessed I’m not sold on youth academies because developing players is a long drawn out,risky process. It’s also expensive to fund and I think it will hamper player recruitment. The temptation will be to use players from the academy when they aren’t at the level required and results will suffer. |
Fair points but I just feel so proud that my Club has been the home for great young players throughout their childhood helping develop their education, values and football skills - they feel much more our players than established ones contracted for a couple of seasons. Our Academy is worth every penny we spend on it just for the national profile it gives us. | |
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| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 15:57 - Jan 23 with 2461 views | D_Alien |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 15:47 - Jan 23 by tony_roch975 |
Fair points but I just feel so proud that my Club has been the home for great young players throughout their childhood helping develop their education, values and football skills - they feel much more our players than established ones contracted for a couple of seasons. Our Academy is worth every penny we spend on it just for the national profile it gives us. |
Agree with this, providing the financing of it doesn't become a drag on the ability of the first team to compete in L1 (or ability to return to L1 if we drop through the trapdoor)
Watching Dale can be a trial at times, but seeing young players starting their careers and beginning to blossom into proper footballers is one of those intangible pleasures that we'd remove at our peril | |
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| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 16:43 - Jan 23 with 2393 views | James1980 |
I have no evidence to back this up. I would argue more clubs are adopting the buy a rough diamond broken toy approach and sell them on for a profit.
This means the best RDs &BTs end up at the clubs that can pay more in transfers signing on fees and wages. Which leaves us having to consider the more broken toys and rougher diamonds (what happened to Nile Ranger in the end?) This has led to clubs like us signing more loan players from the championship and premier league than in the past. | |
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| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 17:07 - Jan 23 with 2361 views | 1907 |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 08:10 - Jan 23 by judd |
Thank you for that.
Interesting that you use the word "eventually." |
I’ll never understand the cloak and dagger mentality in all walks of life.
I’m a great believer in transparency. | | | |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 17:20 - Jan 23 with 2303 views | AtThePeake |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 14:20 - Jan 23 by TalkingSutty |
Agree with that but the academy graduates have to be ready to compete at first team level rather than just padding out the squad. Recruiting broken toys and then selling those players on for big profits has been a very successful blueprint for the Club and it’s a quicker process than nurturing youth players in the hope that they will make the grade, even if they do there are restrictions in place that limit the value of the player to the selling Club so there are a lot of hurdles to overcome. It’s less riskier to sign a tried and trusted player with the hope of improving his game and selling him on, we did that with Lambert, Holt, Murray, Alfie, Hogan, Dawson etc and you also have the bonus of that player being fit for purpose and ready to compete straight away in the first team.
As you have probably guessed I’m not sold on youth academies because developing players is a long drawn out,risky process. It’s also expensive to fund and I think it will hamper player recruitment. The temptation will be to use players from the academy when they aren’t at the level required and results will suffer. |
The problem there of course is that those players aren't always tried and tested. Hogan and Dawson came from non-league and ended up being some of the best players we've ever had - but for every Hogan and every Dawson, there's a Jon Shaw and a Jordan Williams - both of whom we spent very large transfer fees on to non-league clubs for basically no return.
With the injuries that we've had this season the likes of Gillam, Hooper and Bradley, who are either not up to it at all or not quite ready for the first-team yet, have had to fill in on the bench. Without them we'd have to pay extra wages for another 4 or 5 'tried and tested' players which undoubtedly cost more - or have a bench with only 2 or 3 players on. But, if everyone's fit, that leaves some players on bigger wages who can't win a place in the team.
That's without the likes of Camps, Morley and Matheson who have been important first-team players. That's another extra few wages we'd have to replace with players that are likely to cost more (aside from perhaps Camps who is now well established and will no doubt be one of our highest earners). We'd have to find and attract an extra few players of that ilk too. Oh, and there's the money we made from the Adshead deal (even if the value of that is less than most of us have hoped for).
For some clubs, who either have management that don't place faith in youth or a system that isn't developing good enough players for the first team or to sell on, then perhaps it's prudent to not spend too much time or focus on the youth side of things. But Dale's academy is doing a brilliant job at the moment and frankly we'd be knackered without it, this season at least. | |
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| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 17:38 - Jan 30 with 1882 views | DaleiLama |
Passed his test now. Let's hope that just means he can take the g/f out for a spin more often rather than plying his trade further afield
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| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 17:42 - Jan 30 with 1862 views | DySporting |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 14:04 - Jan 22 by James1980 |
Re Adshead does it not depend on whether the add ons pay off or not?
Can any of the forum posters shed light on how he is progressing at Norwich? |
Adshead is treading water in the U23s. Norwich normally keep the young players in house for a year and then send out on loan. I’d expect him to end up at a L1/2 or Scottish Prem club next season. | | | |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 18:00 - Jan 30 with 1772 views | James1980 |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 17:42 - Jan 30 by DySporting |
Adshead is treading water in the U23s. Norwich normally keep the young players in house for a year and then send out on loan. I’d expect him to end up at a L1/2 or Scottish Prem club next season. |
That is a really shame for the lad. Does that mean the 'add ons' won't be as lucrative as hoped | |
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| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 18:24 - Jan 30 with 1682 views | blackdogblue |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 07:35 - Jan 23 by EllDale |
I was always told that legally it isn't a player who is transferred but rather his registration with the EFL/Premier League.
You don't purchase a piece of flesh and bone but rather his signature on a piece of paper.
Does this affect the way that a player's employment is regarded in the eyes of the law? |
My boy changed teams last year in the NBJFL & he is 13.
As I found out the season before when he got a straight red card for dissent to the ref (1st person in the U12’s league to have that privilege) found it quite funny until I received a FA fine for £50 and had to log onto the actual EFL website to pay it 😡
Even at 13, any transfers have to go to the league under FA rules and it is a nominal admin fee. What clubs decide to do financially is away from the FA rules, doesn’t matter if it’s Whitworth Valley, Bridge, Roach, Pennine or Man Utd/City. FA rules & procedures are the same.. |  |
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| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 18:37 - Jan 30 with 1636 views | macro |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 18:00 - Jan 30 by James1980 |
That is a really shame for the lad. Does that mean the 'add ons' won't be as lucrative as hoped |
Depends on how successful the loan is I’d guess, I think some of the younger players in the Norwich squad went out on loan before they hit the first team. I’d Dy would confirm this |  | | |
| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 18:39 - Jan 30 with 1625 views | SuddenLad |
We should enquire about having him on loan. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Matheson Tracked By Huddersfield... on 11:55 - Jan 31 with 1287 views | SandyDrum |
Possibly absolute bull (excuse the pun) considering the source is 'football insider' but you never know...
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| Wish I'd chosen a different username... |
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