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It gives me great sadness to have to add yet another thread re the parlous state of Rochdale AFC. In recent times, in remaining silent, I have constantly had to bite my bottom lip. Alas enough is enough and my feelings should be laid bare. I first attended a match at the Dale in 1949 and have been a season ticket holder for many years, perhaps more than I care to remember especially if I added up the cost. Not so much in recent seasons but I have occasionally attended away matches and been warmly greeted by fellow Daleys in hostelries as far away as Barnet, Wycombe, Torquay, Newport, Brentford etc. I have experienced many highs and sadly the many lows coupled with following a poorly supported club. But despite not being born in Rochdale, the Dale have been my team. My defence of the club following snide and sarcastic comments from supporters of other ’bigger’ clubs has honed the sharpness of my retorts. But now the same commentators have turned to express concern and sadness, and question what has gone wrong at Dale.. Unless things change within the upper echelons of the Club I fear that this will be my and my wife’s last season of attending. Ah I hear you mutter. ‘another wanting rid of BBM.’ Well although that may help the situation, but as others have so eloquently written, BBM. might become the sacrificial lamb in an attempt to divert attention away from the serious situation at the club. If BBM departs there will be no changes further up the pecking order. My feelings are that the wheels started to come off on the appointment of the current C.E.O. Mr David Bottomley. The club is no longer family friendly orientated and Mr Bottomley appears to have ignored the need for customers and appears to take us, well certainly in my case, for granted. What a very strange way to run a business. On August 21st 2020 I sent Mr Bottomley a polite email requesting the Club’s policy for the forthcoming season re Blue Badge Car Parking pass holders. I sent a reminder email to him on September 17th. 2020. I thereafter received a response from the then Club Secretary. On October 2nd. 2020 I sent a further email to Mr Bottomley, which I felt to be constructive, re the Club’s offer to refund season ticket monies. Again no response. In week ending October 16th. I received a telephone call from another Board Member i.e. the Club’s courtesy call made to those considered vulnerable during the pandemic. The subject of my email was raised, a requested copy was forwarded, and I was assured that the matter would be taken up with the C.E.O. I also understand that similar approaches were made by the Trust on my behalf. To date I have heard nothing from Mr Bottomley. I have not even had the courtesy of an acknowledgment re my last email. What a very odd way to treat any customer either long-standing or new. Having successfully run my own business for 40 years I certainly know the value of paying loyal customers, and suppliers, and as a Director the need to comply with the various statutory bodies examples being the Information Commissioners Office, Trading Standards Office, P.R.S. Licensing etc. I am extremely interested to know that when the position of C.E.O. became available, and prior to Mr Bottomley’s appointment, was the position advertised, how many applications were received, how many were interviewed and who decided whom was the best candidate? Or, perhaps, as rumours suggest you opted to fulfil the position yourself. There appears to be some disquiet over a previous decision to take away the ‘Club privileges’ from two ex long-serving (suffering?) Directors, privileges which thankfully were later re-instated. But the rumour mill has also thrown up that other ex long-standing Directors are currently banned from the Club. Is this fact or an Apocrypha? Hopefully the previous paragraph has given Mr Bottomley a platform, an opportunity, to respond and refute these constantly circulating rumours to the benefit of the Club, his own position and the Club’s loyal supporters. Answers are needed and quickly before the situation deteriorates. But will he respond? Previous experience says no and that ignorance is bliss. And now yesterday’s news that the Chairman had decided to stand down. ‘For personal reasons’ can mean a multitude of things. Hopefully it is not a health issue. I had several occasions to speak with him after matches and I found him to be polite and he always thanked me for attending the match. So it appears that the question I pose, perhaps, is that Team Rochdale has become Team Bottomley. In the end all Empires sooner or later collapse. The problem is the remaining detritus which has to be garnered up by others in an attempt to restore the norm. This has all makings and content of a Shakespearean Tragedy and however long the situation is spun out the end result will be the same. Can anybody provide an answer? I certainly know what my solution would be.
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Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 13:33 - Feb 23 with 3577 views
Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 13:17 - Feb 23 by milnrowblue
An intriguing, yet terrifying & saddening thread, unearthing things I had no knowledge of.
A 100% genuine, non-rhetorical question; what can we, as supporters, actually do other than look on in hope as this man seemingly sucks the soul out of our club with each passing month?
As fans or as individuals, it may be worth passing on our concerns to our new chairman when one is appointed in the coming days. It was our previous chairman who allowed him to "step up" to the role, despite his past conduct and lack of experience.
Issues with things like changes to the goldbond, mass recruitment, condescending/lack of interaction with fans, and possible conflict with interpersonal relationships have all taken place during his time at the club. Sadly, his past conduct is not entirely in his past. If that remains unchecked, we have no good reason to expect that it won't continue to progress.
Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 13:17 - Feb 23 by milnrowblue
An intriguing, yet terrifying & saddening thread, unearthing things I had no knowledge of.
A 100% genuine, non-rhetorical question; what can we, as supporters, actually do other than look on in hope as this man seemingly sucks the soul out of our club with each passing month?
The board seems to turn a blind eye to things when it suits them, the issues detailed by Judd are concerning to say the least ( Russ Green had issues when appointed ... ). The Clubs intension to become a great Community Club surely starts with integrity at the top ?? Perhaps when we get a new Chairman the Trust could ask their opinion on his suitability given the issues
I noted Judds comments about DB telling us of his paying for an investigator to investigate a former director - which podcast ? Listened back to the Dec issues with DB and Dave Sweet and heard nothing - please tell, the suspense is killing me...
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Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 14:01 - Feb 23 with 3499 views
Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 13:33 - Feb 23 by TomRAFC
As fans or as individuals, it may be worth passing on our concerns to our new chairman when one is appointed in the coming days. It was our previous chairman who allowed him to "step up" to the role, despite his past conduct and lack of experience.
Issues with things like changes to the goldbond, mass recruitment, condescending/lack of interaction with fans, and possible conflict with interpersonal relationships have all taken place during his time at the club. Sadly, his past conduct is not entirely in his past. If that remains unchecked, we have no good reason to expect that it won't continue to progress.
It's taken awhile, but perhaps the latest round of recruitment with the balance clearly towards the backroom empire rather than the pitch seems to have shifted something, with the resignation of the Chairman presenting an opportunity, as you point out
His appearances in the media over the past year have been, imo, an attempt not only to present himself in a favourable light with the fanbase (something which seems to have impressed quite a few people), but also imo to position himself as an opportunist at a level above club matters, i.e. with the football authorities. It wouldn't in the least surprise me if he wasn't interested in a position within the EFL or the FA. There would, of course, be nothing wrong with that in normal circumstances; indeed, ambition where competence and good judgement are at the forefront is entirely laudable
Competence and good judgement takes a while to become established, and it's only right that where there is evidence of incompetence, poor judgement and mismanagement that the full picture is able to be seen and pondered upon. And not just pondered
This will not be going away. The veil has been lifted, and the view isn't palatable
Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 13:57 - Feb 23 by JPSDale
The board seems to turn a blind eye to things when it suits them, the issues detailed by Judd are concerning to say the least ( Russ Green had issues when appointed ... ). The Clubs intension to become a great Community Club surely starts with integrity at the top ?? Perhaps when we get a new Chairman the Trust could ask their opinion on his suitability given the issues
I noted Judds comments about DB telling us of his paying for an investigator to investigate a former director - which podcast ? Listened back to the Dec issues with DB and Dave Sweet and heard nothing - please tell, the suspense is killing me...
I think we need to be careful about the language that may suggest impropriety where there is none. He doesn't pay himself. There will be a Remuneration Committee and a Nominations committee that make those decisions and hold DB to account. Those committees are made up of members of the Board. There is a suggestion that the Board allow him to do what he wants - that won't be the case.
As fans we are customers. In law we have no right to challenge Board governance unless we are shareholders or there has been a breach of rules such as Health and Safety that has impacted us individually. Of course the Trust do have a small shareholding and have that right. The Board would be stupid to ignore its customer base but I am not sure what people expect from this thread. Sorry, I know that thinking won't be popular.
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Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 16:36 - Feb 23 with 3257 views
Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 13:57 - Feb 23 by JPSDale
The board seems to turn a blind eye to things when it suits them, the issues detailed by Judd are concerning to say the least ( Russ Green had issues when appointed ... ). The Clubs intension to become a great Community Club surely starts with integrity at the top ?? Perhaps when we get a new Chairman the Trust could ask their opinion on his suitability given the issues
I noted Judds comments about DB telling us of his paying for an investigator to investigate a former director - which podcast ? Listened back to the Dec issues with DB and Dave Sweet and heard nothing - please tell, the suspense is killing me...
I'm not sure it's fair to say that Russ Green had issues when appointed, but he was later subject to disciplinary measures whilst 'in-post' at Spotland, relating to a previous appointment at Hartlepool. The charges related to the omission of paperwork submitted to the FA, in relation to payments made to agents.
The club (RAFC) suspended him and stood by him after he was found guilty, pending an appeal, which he subsequently lost, was fined £10,000 and he was then banned from all footballing activities for 12 months.
I don't think that equates to 'turning a blind eye' because Russ Green had never been found guilty of anything when he was appointed here.
“It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooledâ€
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Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 17:15 - Feb 23 with 3184 views
Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 16:36 - Feb 23 by Dalenet
I think we need to be careful about the language that may suggest impropriety where there is none. He doesn't pay himself. There will be a Remuneration Committee and a Nominations committee that make those decisions and hold DB to account. Those committees are made up of members of the Board. There is a suggestion that the Board allow him to do what he wants - that won't be the case.
As fans we are customers. In law we have no right to challenge Board governance unless we are shareholders or there has been a breach of rules such as Health and Safety that has impacted us individually. Of course the Trust do have a small shareholding and have that right. The Board would be stupid to ignore its customer base but I am not sure what people expect from this thread. Sorry, I know that thinking won't be popular.
There's nothing to be sorry about, all valid points and yes, due care must be taken by all concerned
Expectations? Cold, hard financial logic must be applied and if the performance of any employee results in loss of revenue either directly or indirectly, e.g. through pushing changes which lose goodwill and support, they must be held to account in the usual manner
I believe the CEO is doing precisely that; losing goodwill, support and therefore income
Others may disagree, but that's why this thread exists
Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 16:36 - Feb 23 by Dalenet
I think we need to be careful about the language that may suggest impropriety where there is none. He doesn't pay himself. There will be a Remuneration Committee and a Nominations committee that make those decisions and hold DB to account. Those committees are made up of members of the Board. There is a suggestion that the Board allow him to do what he wants - that won't be the case.
As fans we are customers. In law we have no right to challenge Board governance unless we are shareholders or there has been a breach of rules such as Health and Safety that has impacted us individually. Of course the Trust do have a small shareholding and have that right. The Board would be stupid to ignore its customer base but I am not sure what people expect from this thread. Sorry, I know that thinking won't be popular.
With regards to expectations of the thread, just to talk about the topic. Same as any thread on a forum. Actually, I'd say this one has been rather interesting.
A legal "right to challenge board governance" has naff all to do with fans expressing concerns. Unless many a Wigan, Blackpool and Coventry fan (to name but a few) should be preparing themselves for the long arm of the law? I appreciate the influence of club officials and those close to them can be far reaching. Then again, I can't really comment, I dropped a pen behind a desk earlier and I could barely reach that. It was quite funny actually, you probably had to be there.
I’ve mentioned before that BBM is perhaps lucky inasmuch as he doesn’t have fans in the ground these days offering him advice. Especially some who sit behind the home dugout. I also wonder how our CEO might have reacted after some of the recent home performances had seen a few choice comments directed in his direction?
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Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 22:53 - Feb 23 with 2914 views
Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 17:20 - Feb 23 by TomRAFC
With regards to expectations of the thread, just to talk about the topic. Same as any thread on a forum. Actually, I'd say this one has been rather interesting.
A legal "right to challenge board governance" has naff all to do with fans expressing concerns. Unless many a Wigan, Blackpool and Coventry fan (to name but a few) should be preparing themselves for the long arm of the law? I appreciate the influence of club officials and those close to them can be far reaching. Then again, I can't really comment, I dropped a pen behind a desk earlier and I could barely reach that. It was quite funny actually, you probably had to be there.
I suspect had I been there, I'd have found it just as funny as your written account!
Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 16:36 - Feb 23 by Dalenet
I think we need to be careful about the language that may suggest impropriety where there is none. He doesn't pay himself. There will be a Remuneration Committee and a Nominations committee that make those decisions and hold DB to account. Those committees are made up of members of the Board. There is a suggestion that the Board allow him to do what he wants - that won't be the case.
As fans we are customers. In law we have no right to challenge Board governance unless we are shareholders or there has been a breach of rules such as Health and Safety that has impacted us individually. Of course the Trust do have a small shareholding and have that right. The Board would be stupid to ignore its customer base but I am not sure what people expect from this thread. Sorry, I know that thinking won't be popular.
Indeed customers have no legal right to challenge directors as you suggest, but as for the small shareholding of the Trust, it is of a size almost equal to 3 of the current board and far more than another.
Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 22:57 - Feb 23 by R17ALE
I suspect had I been there, I'd have found it just as funny as your written account!
I could have tried to make a joke out of my predicament using the words stationery and stationary. That would probably have been hilarious. Sadly, even my written accounts aren't that funny.
*Edit* I didn't mean anything about actual accounting. That could be misconstrued.
Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 16:36 - Feb 23 by Dalenet
I think we need to be careful about the language that may suggest impropriety where there is none. He doesn't pay himself. There will be a Remuneration Committee and a Nominations committee that make those decisions and hold DB to account. Those committees are made up of members of the Board. There is a suggestion that the Board allow him to do what he wants - that won't be the case.
As fans we are customers. In law we have no right to challenge Board governance unless we are shareholders or there has been a breach of rules such as Health and Safety that has impacted us individually. Of course the Trust do have a small shareholding and have that right. The Board would be stupid to ignore its customer base but I am not sure what people expect from this thread. Sorry, I know that thinking won't be popular.
Having worked in banking for many years I can honestly say that customer feedback is now far more important than ever.
Customers always came second to the numbers (which I never understood), but thankfully now the world has moved forward.
Targets come second to customer feedback. customer surveys & customer satisfaction.
Without customers, your business is worthless.
Our club would do well to remember this.
The purpose of this thread & what it can achieve shouldn’t be underestimated.
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Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 08:38 - Feb 24 with 2548 views
How about the board lay out exactly what their plans are for the future and how they intend to achieve those aims,as a sort of manifesto, for want of a better word.
'Only happy when you've got it often makes you miss the journey'
Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 08:02 - Feb 24 by 1907
Having worked in banking for many years I can honestly say that customer feedback is now far more important than ever.
Customers always came second to the numbers (which I never understood), but thankfully now the world has moved forward.
Targets come second to customer feedback. customer surveys & customer satisfaction.
Without customers, your business is worthless.
Our club would do well to remember this.
The purpose of this thread & what it can achieve shouldn’t be underestimated.
I tried to put something along these lines on this thread yesterday, but the thread appeared to have been locked for some reason?
Anyhow, now that it is open again (does anyone know why it was locked? I really hope that it wasn't at the request of the CEO.)
Football is a service based industry and paying customers are your lifeblood. To ignore your customers (as posted by BigKindo originally) is shockingly bad business, and in this day of e-mail it is also downright rude. Also; to think that you know better than your customers is a dangerous and foolish path to tread, and one which doesn't end well.
I too have had several instances where my e-mails to our CEO have gone unanswered . I wonder how many others have had similar experiences?
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Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 10:02 - Feb 24 with 2449 views
Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 09:02 - Feb 24 by dawlishdale
I tried to put something along these lines on this thread yesterday, but the thread appeared to have been locked for some reason?
Anyhow, now that it is open again (does anyone know why it was locked? I really hope that it wasn't at the request of the CEO.)
Football is a service based industry and paying customers are your lifeblood. To ignore your customers (as posted by BigKindo originally) is shockingly bad business, and in this day of e-mail it is also downright rude. Also; to think that you know better than your customers is a dangerous and foolish path to tread, and one which doesn't end well.
I too have had several instances where my e-mails to our CEO have gone unanswered . I wonder how many others have had similar experiences?
It was not at the request of the CEO.
As Judd correctly points out, this is a serious matter whereby fans are scrutinising a man in a position of power at the club. It's important that we as fans do that.
However, we can't allow personal insults and nor can we allow any accusations of financial wrongdoing or the likes (whether explicit or not). This particular thread needs to be kept on topic and relevant to the club.
We don't want to have to lock and remove the thread altogether, but neither myself or Chaff have the time to sit here and monitor the forum post-by-post so if it goes down the same route as it was doing yesterday we may have to do so. So I would hope people can follow Judd's advice from a few posts above.
Tangled up in blue.
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Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 10:10 - Feb 24 with 2423 views
Club News Statement From The Board Of Directors Just now
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The Board of Directors at Rochdale Football Club would like to issue the following statement to our supporters:
Following the resignation of Andrew Kilpatrick last week as Club Chairman, a Board meeting has been held this week and the Directors are pleased to announce that Andrew Kelly has agreed to stand in as Interim Chair until a permanent Chair is elected.
Andrew Kelly has been a Director at RAFC since 2006, with a special interest in developing the Academy. Andrew was a RAFC scholar in his youth, during the reign of Tony Collins in the 1960s, and thus has a long association with the club.
In addition, Board members are delighted to announce the appointments of Dan Altman and Emre Marcelli, the club’s third and fourth largest shareholders, who have accepted our invitation to join the RAFC Board.
Dan Altman has been working in professional football since 2014. As owner of North Yard Analytics, he has advised multiple clubs in the Premier League, Major League Soccer, and other competitions around the world. He is also the creator of smarterscout, an online scouting platform covering more than 50 leagues with advanced player and squad analytics. RAFC’s technical staff have had exclusive access to smarterscout’s complete database since December 2019, as well as tactical analysis of opposing teams during this season. Dan will be helping to guide RAFC’s search for a Sporting Director.
Emre Marcelli is a fund manager and credit risk expert. After a lengthy career in consumer finance and capital markets, he opened his own fund in New York. He also has significant experience in financial due diligence of European football clubs. Emre will be working with Tony Pockney and Nick Grindrod to oversee the club’s finances and identify investment opportunities.
* * *
It has now been 51 weeks since we have had paying supporters inside the Crown Oil Arena, and it is estimated that the club has lost more than £2m in revenue. During this period, we have continued to meet our commitments to staff and suppliers at a time when the majority of our income streams have been decimated. Also, because the club has been playing behind closed doors (now 19 games this season), we have been unable to take full advantage of the government's furlough scheme; in order to continue playing football, we require the vast majority of our staff to be at work.
In adherence with the salary cap management scheme, conscious of the impact of COVID-19, and recognising that the club's shareholders could not provide additional funds, we started the 2020/21 season with the lowest playing budget since we were promoted back to League One in 2014. We acknowledge that we have fought a relegation battle in the past few seasons, but we are determined once again to maintain our League One status.
We understand supporters’ frustration with results, which have been compounded by injuries and a small playing squad. However, we have a hugely talented manager in Brian Barry-Murphy who has worked at RAFC for 11 years, and the Board of Directors are fully behind him and his team. The players signed in the January transfer window are part of our philosophy to develop young talent and monetise these players within the next several years to ensure the future survival of RAFC.
In our club’s 114-year history, we have never had a multi-millionaire owner with funds to support a loss-making club; instead, subsequent Boards have had to find ways to balance the books. We are actively seeking external investment to pursue our greater ambitions, but until then we shall survive by our own means — notably through a very successful Academy that attracts young players and presents them with opportunities to develop and move on in their careers.
Kwadwo Baah, who joined our Academy in 2019, epitomises this philosophy. Though rumours of his signing by Manchester City have been exaggerated, he will undoubtedly go on to have an excellent career in the higher echelons of the football pyramid.
* * *
In the meantime, we continue to pursue viable sources of revenue. The club’s coffers have benefitted from the EFL Grant of £375K distributed to all 24 clubs in League 1. The other sources of income this season have been our Basic Award, sponsorships, season ticket sales, iFollow, and our club shop and lottery. We would like to thank all of our loyal supporters, sponsors and everybody who has helped RAFC during these past 12 months.
We would particularly like to acknowledge our season ticket holders, more than 1,000 of whom have not requested a refund. Following the Roadmap out of Covid announced by the Government on Monday, we are now closely looking at our plans for all ticketing and hospitality for the 2021/22 season and will bring further news soon.
We are also working towards a virtual kit launch for the Easter weekend, as 2021 marks our 100th anniversary as a member of the Football League.
Off the pitch, we have invested in our staff to help us develop new income streams and fund our campaign to challenge more effectively higher up the football pyramid. At present, we have just 13 members of clerical staff working behind the scenes at RAFC. The appointment of an ‘in house’ HR Manager has helped to make us even more professional off the field whilst the club also benefits from the cost efficiencies resulting from no longer having to outsource the HR function. We recently recruited George Delves as our new Club Secretary, replacing John Smallwood as he retires after operating as a successful and popular Club Secretary. We are currently recruiting a Sporting Director and will soon to be advertising for a Digital Marketing Manager. All of these roles will be crucial in giving RAFC the platform to generate additional income that will offset the costs whilst also being integral to both the sustainability and future progression of the club.
* * *
For all the challenges we have faced, there is an unbelievable fighting spirit within the club. We will now concentrate all of our efforts in fighting the relegation battle as a united force: one team, one club, together as one.
Fans are invited to join a Virtual Fans Forum, sponsored by Zen, with the Board of Directors and Manager Brian Barry-Murphy on Wednesday 10th March at 7pm, live via our You Tube channel:
We welcome questions in advance, which can be emailed to media@rochdaleafc.co.uk Fans will also be able to submit questions live via the online chat function.
On behalf of the Board of Directors, thank you — and Up the Dale!
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Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 11:32 - Feb 24 with 2314 views
Thanks for the link - a great listen and very interesting hearing a massive fan and former CEO talking about the history of how we got to where we are today
Keytech / Fagan was allowed in, and then thwarted by fans / staff - checked by Finance Director, nothing amiss. Quick check with a laptop and his seen for what he is in 2 minutes - wow a near miss if ever there was one !
Cannon got in and was thwarted by 15 year old Edward Lord ( ?) Thanks to the young man - a near miss if ever there was two !
Americans just in the door - 3rd time unlucky ??
The shareholders got lucky twice, what will they do this time
Remember - the CEO works for the Board, he will have to do as he is requested or leave the roll. Some might be happy if he were to leave, but underneath he is a Dale Fan, the Americans on the other hand are INVESTORS looking to make a profit, not develop a club
ps Im not a DBfanclub member, but I trust he more than the Americans. I hope Im wrong
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Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 12:38 - Feb 24 with 2216 views
It may be what we need to enable us to progress as a club, we have been stagnant for a few years now, so who knows, Swansea gave the Americans a good reference (for want of a better word) and had no issues whatsoever so we will see
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Is it Team Rochdale or is it Team Bottomley. on 18:25 - Feb 24 with 1960 views
I'd be expecting the new members of the board to be casting a cool, calculating eye on not just performances on the pitch but also fellow board members and those with an executive function
A summary of accounts which includes the present and past performance of revenue streams should be of particular interest to them. In good time, i'd expect serious questions to be asked where such streams have taken a considerable downturn
For obvious reasons, interpersonal relationships will be confined to screens for the time being but that won't stop them from taking note of information that's in the public domain, whether sought directly by themselves or presented to them
RAFC will respond to any contact from customers by telephone, email, letter, or fax within 14 days, and will respond by the most efficient and appropriate method of communication (phone, email, post). In the event that we feel unable to satisfy any matter raised within 14 days, an acknowledgement will be sent indicating the time scale that we anticipate resolving the issue.
I'd say the lack of response to BK contravenes the club charter
'Only happy when you've got it often makes you miss the journey'
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