| Trust meeting with BoD 09:00 - Nov 3 with 25576 views | IOMDale |
Does anybody know how last night went or are we to wait for an update from the Trust? Because let's be honest, it won't be the BoD releasing information in a rush. |  |
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 17:55 - Nov 7 with 1908 views | D_Alien |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 17:20 - Nov 7 by TalkingSutty |
The answer is to have a boardroom that goes the extra mile to accommodate the Trust and the supporters, a Chairman that seeks to make the club a inclusive one and shows real leadership. I'm willing to put myself forward to help the Trust in anyway i can and have informed them of that on several occasions, and i know of others who would also get on board. If the Chairman and Directors are making things difficult for the Trust they need to call them out and inform their members. I'm hoping that in the near future we will have new leadership in the club, people with a passion and desire to progress the club, people who are more than willing to work with the Trust and the fans. Maybe that would then be the time to do what was promised last year and restructure the Trust, bring in a bit of new blood to assist. At the moment i don't think me representing the Trust in any meeting with the Chairman would be what the committee would want. I did write to the Trust requesting a EGM be called several months ago and outlined my reasons why but the reply I received disagreed with my views, which is fair enough. I asked for a EGM at the time the Chairman suddenly announced out of the blue that the club was up for sale after buying back the MH shares. Since then the club has regressed to the point that the Chairman has mentioned liquidation and we have lost our League status. There are plenty of fans who are willing to speak up but it has to be done via the Trust to have any impact and that also means everybody on the committee singing off the same hymn sheet. The news that the Trust have been introduced to potential investors means now is not the time to start introducing new committee members into the equation anyway. [Post edited 7 Nov 2023 17:44]
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That point about "singing from the same hymn sheet" is pretty important, and why i (as i've previously explained) won't be putting myself forward for the Trust committee - not that i'd be likely to get elected, but tr's post is saying "put yourself forward for election if you believe something strongly enough"
The principle of "collective responsibility" applies, and being elected to the Trust committee does not mean having your views accepted, if the majority of those in the Trust leadership disagree. The ability to speak out independently also has its merits, without being bound by the collective principle. In fact, the reason the Trust finds it so difficult to speak out now is due to being bound by NDAs/MOUs
Of interest in this respect is Item 6 from the Trust newsletter:
"Resignation of Board Members"
[Post edited 7 Nov 2023 18:01]
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 18:19 - Nov 7 with 1808 views | TalkingSutty |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 17:55 - Nov 7 by D_Alien |
That point about "singing from the same hymn sheet" is pretty important, and why i (as i've previously explained) won't be putting myself forward for the Trust committee - not that i'd be likely to get elected, but tr's post is saying "put yourself forward for election if you believe something strongly enough"
The principle of "collective responsibility" applies, and being elected to the Trust committee does not mean having your views accepted, if the majority of those in the Trust leadership disagree. The ability to speak out independently also has its merits, without being bound by the collective principle. In fact, the reason the Trust finds it so difficult to speak out now is due to being bound by NDAs/MOUs
Of interest in this respect is Item 6 from the Trust newsletter:
"Resignation of Board Members"
[Post edited 7 Nov 2023 18:01]
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Well i know for a fact that i'm on a completely different page, never mind the same hymn sheet. As i stated in my previous post, i did contact the Trust a few months ago regarding my concerns and the reply i received was totally at odds with my views. So how would that work if i was voted on to the Trust Committee? It wouldn't and would result in fall outs with people who i like. Maybe more Trust members should contact the Trust via email etc with any concerns they have, the reply was quick and despite a difference of opinions i appreciated the feedback. [Post edited 7 Nov 2023 18:26]
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 18:29 - Nov 7 with 1768 views | D_Alien |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 18:19 - Nov 7 by TalkingSutty |
Well i know for a fact that i'm on a completely different page, never mind the same hymn sheet. As i stated in my previous post, i did contact the Trust a few months ago regarding my concerns and the reply i received was totally at odds with my views. So how would that work if i was voted on to the Trust Committee? It wouldn't and would result in fall outs with people who i like. Maybe more Trust members should contact the Trust via email etc with any concerns they have, the reply was quick and despite a difference of opinions i appreciated the feedback. [Post edited 7 Nov 2023 18:26]
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Completely agree about more Trust members putting their views forward to the Trust
Pleased to hear your reply was quick; my email was sent over two weeks ago
If i were to take a positive view of this, it might be that the issue is still being hotly debated ahead of the twice-cancelled meeting, so i'm trying not to be too critical here, and i would hope it wouldn't put others off from contacting the Trust | |
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 18:49 - Nov 7 with 1708 views | TalkingSutty |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 18:29 - Nov 7 by D_Alien |
Completely agree about more Trust members putting their views forward to the Trust
Pleased to hear your reply was quick; my email was sent over two weeks ago
If i were to take a positive view of this, it might be that the issue is still being hotly debated ahead of the twice-cancelled meeting, so i'm trying not to be too critical here, and i would hope it wouldn't put others off from contacting the Trust |
I've been waiting to hear what's happening with Ciaran Hayes and now you've thrown something else into the mixđ. In a ideal world we have a Club that's working hand in hand with the supporters trust. Expecting volunteer fans to constantly have to challenge those in the Boardroom isn't a normal state of affairs, its sad that they have been put in that situation. Maybe we expect too much from them. | | | |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 19:20 - Nov 7 with 1656 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 17:50 - Nov 7 by 442Dale |
All of it, having a Trust rep on the board or not, is rendered pointless unless there is an agreed process and commitment to communication with the Trust and supporters.
For anyone to try and throw other factors into the equation is merely an attempt to avoid that particular elephant in the room that has existed for years.
The disappointing thing about the current era is that we were all told about, proudly boasted and promoted a âfan owned and fan ledâ club. Yet itâs one where people are fully aware of how frustrated and affected fans are and either refuse to address it or try and shift the argument and conversation elsewhere.
It is not good enough. People know this and by not even admitting it, itâs a damning reflection of where we are at present. This has to change. |
There is an agreed process and commitment to communication with the Trust and supporters, 442.
It's in black and white on the Trust website.
It's from February 2019, which was put in by a previous Board, announced on the club's website and was reneged on by the same Board that put it in.
b) The minimum level of commitment is for senior Club representatives (owners, directors, senior executive management) to meet with a representative group of supporters, that must include the Supporters Trust, at least twice a year.
c) The matters for discussion will often be of a strategic nature and may relate to the management and day to day running of the club
d) Where meetings are not open to all supporters wishing to attend, the supporter representatives must be elected, selected or invited in line with basic democratic principles; and individuals cannot be excluded by the Club without good reason (the Club acting reasonably).
The list of meeting is here and seemingly more than the two prescribed a year
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/category/meetings-with-the-club/
Equally both parties "respect that some items may be sensitive and deemed confidential, with an agreed protocol about how they should be reported."
If that isn't an agreed process, I'm not sure what is. |  |
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 19:41 - Nov 7 with 1602 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 10:42 - Nov 7 by 49thseason |
Some interesting reforms coming up in the Kings Speech this afternoon...a football regulator is on the cards..
"It would operate a licensing system and clubs would need to obtain a licence to operate as a professional football club.
Financial regulation would be the regulatorâs core focus. Clubs would need to demonstrate good financial management, including appropriate âbuffersâ to deal with financial uncertainty, and protect core assets (such as the club stadium).
It would introduce a compulsory âfootball club corporate governance codeâ. Clubs would need to show how they applied the code, but this would be applied âproportionallyâ, bearing in mind the clubâs size and complexity.
It would establish new owner and director tests. These would test integrity and propriety, andâfor potential ownersârequire enhanced due diligence of finances and that financial plans for the club were ârobustâ.
It would ensure clubs have a framework to meet a âminimum standard of fan engagementâ.
Clubs would only be able to compete in approved competitions." |
Meaningless fodder from the politicians 49th.
There is a general election in 2024 and by the time this gets airtime Parliament will have withdrawn and an election will be fought.
It certainly won't be in place for the 2024/25 season where the rules get changed in June which means 2025/26 at the earliest which is after the current Premier League TV deal expires.
https://www.fairgameuk.org/fair-game-clubs
There are 116 teams in the England's top 5 leagues.
There are only 34 listed here and we are not one of them.
Only 14 of the 92 and the rest are non-league.
Since the Tory/Liberal coalition of early 2010, football has seen in adminstration or lost:
* Portsmouth - Administration
* Plymouth Argyle - Administration
* Rushden and Diamonds - Lost
* Darlington - Lost
* Port Vale - Adminstration
* Coventry City - Administration
* Aldershot Town - Administration
* Bolton - Administration
* bury - Lost
* Wigan - Administration
* Derby County - Administration
The next ones look to be Reading and Sheffield Wednesday.
Collectively politicians have done nothing for football in the last decade; I don't see much hope for them legislating against the Premier League. | |
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 19:49 - Nov 7 with 1582 views | 442Dale |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 19:20 - Nov 7 by RAFCBLUE |
There is an agreed process and commitment to communication with the Trust and supporters, 442.
It's in black and white on the Trust website.
It's from February 2019, which was put in by a previous Board, announced on the club's website and was reneged on by the same Board that put it in.
b) The minimum level of commitment is for senior Club representatives (owners, directors, senior executive management) to meet with a representative group of supporters, that must include the Supporters Trust, at least twice a year.
c) The matters for discussion will often be of a strategic nature and may relate to the management and day to day running of the club
d) Where meetings are not open to all supporters wishing to attend, the supporter representatives must be elected, selected or invited in line with basic democratic principles; and individuals cannot be excluded by the Club without good reason (the Club acting reasonably).
The list of meeting is here and seemingly more than the two prescribed a year
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/category/meetings-with-the-club/
Equally both parties "respect that some items may be sensitive and deemed confidential, with an agreed protocol about how they should be reported."
If that isn't an agreed process, I'm not sure what is. |
As those who attended the meetings six months ago know and pointed out, what was in place,
including but not exclusive to the existing MOU, was not something that was being followed effectively. So much so that the Trust themselves admitted as much and put plans in motion around looking at the MOU again. They will be able to give more details on this.
From May 2023, which is a bit more recent than 2019, it was said that the MOU âcarried little weightâ
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2023/05/action-plan-on-trust-feedback/
<<âWhen we signed the MOU with the Club, it was the generic MOU that was provided by Supportersâ Direct and was almost just guidance material as it carried little weight. It certainly wasnât something that we constantly referred back to at any time. It would be in everyoneâs interest to formulate the relationship between the Trust and the Club with a document that is tailor made to our needs. We will be working this over the Summer and consult members as to what they feel should be included in it.â>>
Those fans meetings contained suggestions around how meetings and working with the club could be improved and reported back on, how action points would be set and followed up on and general input from supporters about how the process and structure could be improved, irrespective of any MOU. Again, plenty in that link above.
It was also very clear amongst supporters that when the Trust and club were not responding or following up on agreed actions, this should be reported back to supporters with reasoning.
These are some of the processes that need agreeing to and a real commitment to following. [Post edited 7 Nov 2023 19:51]
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 20:08 - Nov 7 with 1537 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 19:49 - Nov 7 by 442Dale |
As those who attended the meetings six months ago know and pointed out, what was in place,
including but not exclusive to the existing MOU, was not something that was being followed effectively. So much so that the Trust themselves admitted as much and put plans in motion around looking at the MOU again. They will be able to give more details on this.
From May 2023, which is a bit more recent than 2019, it was said that the MOU âcarried little weightâ
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2023/05/action-plan-on-trust-feedback/
<<âWhen we signed the MOU with the Club, it was the generic MOU that was provided by Supportersâ Direct and was almost just guidance material as it carried little weight. It certainly wasnât something that we constantly referred back to at any time. It would be in everyoneâs interest to formulate the relationship between the Trust and the Club with a document that is tailor made to our needs. We will be working this over the Summer and consult members as to what they feel should be included in it.â>>
Those fans meetings contained suggestions around how meetings and working with the club could be improved and reported back on, how action points would be set and followed up on and general input from supporters about how the process and structure could be improved, irrespective of any MOU. Again, plenty in that link above.
It was also very clear amongst supporters that when the Trust and club were not responding or following up on agreed actions, this should be reported back to supporters with reasoning.
These are some of the processes that need agreeing to and a real commitment to following. [Post edited 7 Nov 2023 19:51]
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I don't disagree with your sentiment that some of the processes that need agreeing to.
Those fans meetings, by design in person naturally exclude exiled members, not deliberately, but by nature of geography and timing.
Exile members comprise about 30% of Trust membership.
The announced plan to "consult members as to what they feel should be included in it." is welcome - but it does need to extend to include all members. I can't recall a consultation, but I may have missed it.
The Trust AGM on 18th November 2023 is the perfect opportunity to do this, but the MOU is not even on the Agenda, six months on from the link in your last post.
Proxies presumably will come to those who might want to vote as the current Proxy Form link in the Trust newsletter takes you to a website that needs a login as do the links for the Trust Accounts and the minutes from last year's AGM.
If the commitment to consulting all members on an MOU does extend to all members then that is the natural first step of the process. | |
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 20:18 - Nov 7 with 1508 views | D_Alien |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 19:41 - Nov 7 by RAFCBLUE |
Meaningless fodder from the politicians 49th.
There is a general election in 2024 and by the time this gets airtime Parliament will have withdrawn and an election will be fought.
It certainly won't be in place for the 2024/25 season where the rules get changed in June which means 2025/26 at the earliest which is after the current Premier League TV deal expires.
https://www.fairgameuk.org/fair-game-clubs
There are 116 teams in the England's top 5 leagues.
There are only 34 listed here and we are not one of them.
Only 14 of the 92 and the rest are non-league.
Since the Tory/Liberal coalition of early 2010, football has seen in adminstration or lost:
* Portsmouth - Administration
* Plymouth Argyle - Administration
* Rushden and Diamonds - Lost
* Darlington - Lost
* Port Vale - Adminstration
* Coventry City - Administration
* Aldershot Town - Administration
* Bolton - Administration
* bury - Lost
* Wigan - Administration
* Derby County - Administration
The next ones look to be Reading and Sheffield Wednesday.
Collectively politicians have done nothing for football in the last decade; I don't see much hope for them legislating against the Premier League. |
What this means is that Rochdale have withdrawn from the Fair Game initiative
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2021/september/fairgame_annoucement/#:~:text=
I wonder why?
And to highlight from the link:
âWe are delighted to become a member club of Fair Game,â said Rochdale Chairman Simon Gauge.
âWe believe wholeheartedly in the principles of Fair Game â sustainability, integrity and community. The values are so closely aligned to our own, especially acting with fairness and integrity, being open and transparent, being collaborative and engaging, and being community focused.
âBecoming an active member of Fair game seems a very natural step for Rochdale AFC. With the fan led review of football currently taking place, now is the time to try and change football for the better." [Post edited 7 Nov 2023 20:22]
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 20:25 - Nov 7 with 1483 views | 442Dale |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 20:08 - Nov 7 by RAFCBLUE |
I don't disagree with your sentiment that some of the processes that need agreeing to.
Those fans meetings, by design in person naturally exclude exiled members, not deliberately, but by nature of geography and timing.
Exile members comprise about 30% of Trust membership.
The announced plan to "consult members as to what they feel should be included in it." is welcome - but it does need to extend to include all members. I can't recall a consultation, but I may have missed it.
The Trust AGM on 18th November 2023 is the perfect opportunity to do this, but the MOU is not even on the Agenda, six months on from the link in your last post.
Proxies presumably will come to those who might want to vote as the current Proxy Form link in the Trust newsletter takes you to a website that needs a login as do the links for the Trust Accounts and the minutes from last year's AGM.
If the commitment to consulting all members on an MOU does extend to all members then that is the natural first step of the process. |
The fans meetings in April and May were not for Trust members. They were for any interested supporters to attend.
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2023/04/trust-to-host-supporters-meetings/
Of course it was easier for local fans to attend, though the Trust invited and Iâm sure continue to invite comment and ideas based on what came out of the meetings. See their website for details on what was discussed.
None of this matters that much though, as we are in agreement that processes need agreeing. More importantly, they then need sticking to. It might be worth working towards acknowledging what needs to be improved and seeking to do so. Something the football club and the Trust have fallen short on over the last couple of years.
For questions about where the Trust are up to on MOU, have you contacted them? | |
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 20:30 - Nov 7 with 1464 views | blackdogblue |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 17:55 - Nov 7 by D_Alien |
That point about "singing from the same hymn sheet" is pretty important, and why i (as i've previously explained) won't be putting myself forward for the Trust committee - not that i'd be likely to get elected, but tr's post is saying "put yourself forward for election if you believe something strongly enough"
The principle of "collective responsibility" applies, and being elected to the Trust committee does not mean having your views accepted, if the majority of those in the Trust leadership disagree. The ability to speak out independently also has its merits, without being bound by the collective principle. In fact, the reason the Trust finds it so difficult to speak out now is due to being bound by NDAs/MOUs
Of interest in this respect is Item 6 from the Trust newsletter:
"Resignation of Board Members"
[Post edited 7 Nov 2023 18:01]
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I mentioned item 6 on my post earlier in the thread but donât think anyone picked this up before now & apologies if I have missed something but ffs..
Putting football aside for a minute.. that can wait and will not be sorted in the next few days..
What is going on with the Scum who think it is ok to deface our memorial to world war vetâs in the newsâŚ..
I have noticed a lot of cars recently with a Palestinian flag clip on in Rochdale.. itâs not the World Cup⌠|  |
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 20:35 - Nov 7 with 1453 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 20:18 - Nov 7 by D_Alien |
What this means is that Rochdale have withdrawn from the Fair Game initiative
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2021/september/fairgame_annoucement/#:~:text=
I wonder why?
And to highlight from the link:
âWe are delighted to become a member club of Fair Game,â said Rochdale Chairman Simon Gauge.
âWe believe wholeheartedly in the principles of Fair Game â sustainability, integrity and community. The values are so closely aligned to our own, especially acting with fairness and integrity, being open and transparent, being collaborative and engaging, and being community focused.
âBecoming an active member of Fair game seems a very natural step for Rochdale AFC. With the fan led review of football currently taking place, now is the time to try and change football for the better." [Post edited 7 Nov 2023 20:22]
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Slight aside DA:
Is the Ian Bridge who is listed as the Director of Engagement the same Ian Bridge who was part of the Martin Halsall bid prior to Morton House?
https://www.fairgameuk.org/management-team
vs
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2021/10/trust-response-to-bbc-article/
We met had one meeting with Martin Halsall, and a second meeting with his partner Ian Bridge. Following the signing of an NDA at that second meeting, we had a further meeting cancelled at two hoursâ notice, and three subsequent requests for a meeting were ignored. We had made it clear to Halsall from day one that we would have issues with anything that put the ownership of the ground at risk, but Halsall had never stated any views to us that a charge was to be put on the ground. It is our belief that Halsall withdrew his interest rather than respond to requests from others to explain his funding of the Club. | |
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 20:43 - Nov 7 with 1431 views | judd |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 20:18 - Nov 7 by D_Alien |
What this means is that Rochdale have withdrawn from the Fair Game initiative
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2021/september/fairgame_annoucement/#:~:text=
I wonder why?
And to highlight from the link:
âWe are delighted to become a member club of Fair Game,â said Rochdale Chairman Simon Gauge.
âWe believe wholeheartedly in the principles of Fair Game â sustainability, integrity and community. The values are so closely aligned to our own, especially acting with fairness and integrity, being open and transparent, being collaborative and engaging, and being community focused.
âBecoming an active member of Fair game seems a very natural step for Rochdale AFC. With the fan led review of football currently taking place, now is the time to try and change football for the better." [Post edited 7 Nov 2023 20:22]
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Does it cost money to be signed up? |  |
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 20:46 - Nov 7 with 1402 views | 442Dale |
Is it too late for the Trust to clarify the clubâs Fair Game status when they finally get around to arranging a twice postponed meeting that weâre still unsure about on why it hasnât taken place? | |
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 20:51 - Nov 7 with 1388 views | D_Alien |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 20:43 - Nov 7 by judd |
Does it cost money to be signed up? |
Not that i know of, but it's something the club would have to take into account if there was a cost involved. I don't know of any direct benefit to those clubs signed up in terms of being favoured, except through the favourable publicity that SG exploited in the link
If there was some reason for withdrawing Dale, it might've been *communicated* given the public statement he made on Dale joining | |
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 20:59 - Nov 7 with 1339 views | judd |
Cheers re charity status.
Clearly the same Bridge involved with Halsall. | |
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 21:06 - Nov 7 with 1313 views | TVOS1907 |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 20:25 - Nov 7 by 442Dale |
The fans meetings in April and May were not for Trust members. They were for any interested supporters to attend.
https://www.daletrust.co.uk/2023/04/trust-to-host-supporters-meetings/
Of course it was easier for local fans to attend, though the Trust invited and Iâm sure continue to invite comment and ideas based on what came out of the meetings. See their website for details on what was discussed.
None of this matters that much though, as we are in agreement that processes need agreeing. More importantly, they then need sticking to. It might be worth working towards acknowledging what needs to be improved and seeking to do so. Something the football club and the Trust have fallen short on over the last couple of years.
For questions about where the Trust are up to on MOU, have you contacted them? |
And, there were exiled supporters in attendance. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 21:13 - Nov 7 with 1294 views | 442Dale |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 21:06 - Nov 7 by TVOS1907 |
And, there were exiled supporters in attendance. |
There were indeed. It was a very inclusive, very positive and very effective process that would have taken the football club forward if capitalised on properly.
That it hasnât been is sad, yet predictable.
As is the conversation moving on in a different direction once such facts are established. | |
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 21:37 - Nov 7 with 1234 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 21:13 - Nov 7 by 442Dale |
There were indeed. It was a very inclusive, very positive and very effective process that would have taken the football club forward if capitalised on properly.
That it hasnât been is sad, yet predictable.
As is the conversation moving on in a different direction once such facts are established. |
Sounds very Stewart Pearson.
"Let's imagineer a narrative." | |
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 21:44 - Nov 7 with 1206 views | 442Dale |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 21:37 - Nov 7 by RAFCBLUE |
Sounds very Stewart Pearson.
"Let's imagineer a narrative." |
Did he say that after scoring in the â77 Cup Final? | |
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 22:01 - Nov 7 with 1149 views | TVOS1907 |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 21:44 - Nov 7 by 442Dale |
Did he say that after scoring in the â77 Cup Final? |
Hi 442
I think you'll find that was STUART Pearson. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 22:07 - Nov 7 with 1126 views | 442Dale |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 22:01 - Nov 7 by TVOS1907 |
Hi 442
I think you'll find that was STUART Pearson. |
Aye, but Iâm creative like that and assess things with a wider perspective that tries to appreciate how football fans think.
Thereâs a Dale link to the other United scorer that day of course. | |
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 22:08 - Nov 7 with 1125 views | D_Alien |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 22:01 - Nov 7 by TVOS1907 |
Hi 442
I think you'll find that was STUART Pearson. |
Tbf, he was always in the thick of it | |
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| Trust meeting with BoD on 22:10 - Nov 7 with 1110 views | TVOS1907 |
| Trust meeting with BoD on 22:07 - Nov 7 by 442Dale |
Aye, but Iâm creative like that and assess things with a wider perspective that tries to appreciate how football fans think.
Thereâs a Dale link to the other United scorer that day of course. |
Correct
Also, the United 'keeper once worked for a van hire company in Rochdale.
And he wore a blue shirt on that scorching afternoon at Wembley, which I'm sure was of interest. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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